Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Grayson Extended - 2/$20 million

[MickeyDavis]

Last thread maxed out

[RogerMurdock]

I skipped the last three pages of the previous thread because I assume it's all just bickering.

I'm not going out on a limb here at all, but I think the coaches/front office believe the following:

1) Nwora will be able to contribute as a regular rotation player this season. Not first guy off the bench or anything, but he'll play.
2) Hood will improve further removed from his injury issues and be a solid backup.
3) DDV will be fine (this is the biggie)

Less certain, but could also be thinking:

4) Merrill will improve enough get to a few minutes per game in the regular season, mainly has a guy moving without the ball, coming off screens, looking for threes. Probably wouldn't be out there with Nwora except in garbage time.
5) Diakite has potential to contribute the following season as he puts on muscle and figures out the defense. Offensively, he could probably be ok for a few minutes per game in the regular season this year against lesser teams (3&D, pick-and-roll type guy). Clearly has potential, just needs to get stronger and learn where to be on an NBA defense (of course, only playing in garbage time or in games where all the starters sit didn't help). Dude learned under Tony Bennett and was one of the best defenders in the country in college, so he has the ability and smarts. He's obviously really well-liked among his teammates.

All of the above, plus being handcuffed (in a good way, not complaining) to the "big three" contracts mean that they didn't find the need to panic and start overspending. Also, we have no idea what they really tried to do. They might have tried to sign a whole bunch of guys, but were turned down.

[CharityStripe34]

Fairly quiet off season, but I wouldn’t call it abandon ship or anything. It seems they’re banking on Donte coming back strong and making a small leap.

[buckboy]

BigO
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Hill signs for 2/$8mm pg 84

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Post#1794 » by BigO » Yesterday 5:59 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:

BucksFanSD wrote:
Brooklyn looking like the solid favorites with the Lakers.


Both were solid favorites last year too. How did that work out?



Any GM that has as their strategy that next season Brooklyn will again lose two of their three superstars and that the Lakers will again lose one of their two superstars and that the Clippers again will lose one of their two, should be fired.

You build your team to beat what the other teams will probably be.

I don't blame Horst at all. Last week he said that Tucker's full Bird rights were essential and then three days later failed to sign Tucker to a small dollar amount. He was ordered to pass on Tucker. There's no other logical explanation.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You contradict yourself here. Those teams probably will be injured.

Without regard to that, I agree that Horst has been ordered to go cheap here. IF, and that's a big if, Donte is healthy, we are better than last year by a fair margin in my opinion. If not, we're not.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

There were some people on the last couple pages that believe Horst only had the option of PJ or Bobby; no tMLE. Imagine if we only got PJ

[Turk Nowitzki]

New thread, time for a return to optimism. What's done is done, the most important thing we need now is a healthy and effective Donte. If we have that with our returning core we're still in a good spot. Gonna go watch some playoff highlights this morning.

[MVP2110]

There were some people on the last couple pages that believe Horst only had the option of PJ or Bobby; no tMLE. Imagine if we only got PJ

I believe the owners gave Horst basically the option of 2 of 3 of Bobby, PJ, & the TPMLE, and that Horst chose Bobby & the TPMLE. All 3 got fairly similar contracts. If Bobby had signed the TPMLE then I believe we would have brought PJ back but then no George Hill, or if Bobby would have left we'd have Hill & PJ. That just seems likely to me based on the contracts being fairly close together in $ amount

[emunney]

i think its interesting we tried to bring in bogdan last year for 18 mil per. doesnt make sense we win and then decide to go all cheap. maybe we just dont want to sign guys to bad deals?

This is a great point and I hadn't thought of it at all. What does it mean that we were willing to commit to a 4th almost 20m long term contract last summer and this year we won't re-sign PJ?

I think it probably means that, as others have pointed out, we didn't think we'd be able to keep Bobby, and we know we're going to have to pay him and/or Donte next summer. Bobby is likely going to come in at about the MLE level with Early Bird rights. Donte will probably be similar. Those two guys combined will be basically equivalent to Bogdan + BAE. Under this theory the tax bill on the 2nd year of PJ's contract, given he insisted on a 2nd year, would be astronomical.

TLDR: it's more about next year's books than this year's.

We still need more players.

[Frank Nova]

We have Giannis, I mean... wtf is everyone so worried about? Lol

And on top of Giannis, who just so happens to be the most dominating player in the league, we have an elite closer and the best 2 PG in the league.

Yeah I’m sad about Tuck but if you’re still a Bucks fan, we still have the best roster in the league. If you’re scared of LAL or BKN, you’re just scared of the idea of them. But when we match up, it’s very blatantly obvious that we are neck and neck at the very worst.

Shame on anyone that thinks Patty Mills and Malik Monk make LaL or BK better than us is all I can say at this point.. we all know it’s not about that if you want to win titles... We have God level star power and solid depth, what more do teams look for to compete?

And we turned DJA into Tucker last deadline, there’s no reason to think we won’t just wait for that opportunity again this year and do it all over again. I’m very confident we will, all Bucks fans should be.

[crowhead76]

Use the TPE on Kenrich Williams
Trade DDV, Pat, and Merrill to Minnesota for Malik Beasley
Sign Frank Ntilikina
Resign Thanasis
Bryant can be waived at deadline (NG) for buyout

Holiday / Hill / Ntikilina
Beasley / Hood / Bryant
Middleton / Nwora / Thanasis
Giannis / Williams / Ojeleye / Mamu(2-way)
Lopez / Portis / Diakitie

[LuessiT]

i think its interesting we tried to bring in bogdan last year for 18 mil per. doesnt make sense we win and then decide to go all cheap. maybe we just dont want to sign guys to bad deals?

This is a great point and I hadn't thought of it at all. What does it mean that we were willing to commit to a 4th almost 20m long term contract last summer and this year we won't re-sign PJ?

I think it probably means that, as others have pointed out, we didn't think we'd be able to keep Bobby, and we know we're going to have to pay him and/or Donte next summer. Bobby is likely going to come in at about the MLE level with Early Bird rights. Donte will probably be similar. Those two guys combined will be basically equivalent to Bogdan + BAE. Under this theory the tax bill on the 2nd year of PJ's contract, given he insisted on a 2nd year, would be astronomical.

TLDR: it's more about next year's books than this year's.

We still need more players.

Honestly thinking about it, I feel like we may have only offered PJ a one year deal and not budged on that. There's no way we don't at least offer Bobby the early bird deal next year and if we bring back Donte to a MLE sized deal, we already have 150m in salaries committed on 6 players. That's kind of crazy for a small market team.

You won't find many that have appreciated PJ more than I did. I liked him a lot before he came here and wanted to bring him here during the season (TBF I also wanted DJ gone after day 2 and PJ fit his salary slot nicely). And PJ had a major impact last year and is one reason we won the championship. But you have to seperate the attitude and culture he brought to this team from his on court play. And I don't think it's outlandish to think that the culture that changed for the better with PJ may persist without him. I do think we may have flipped a switch and PJ impacted other players long lasting so they can take part of his previous role. And if that is the case, his on court play is actually replaceable.

[M-C-G]

I get why they did that trade back now, they wanted to keep roster spots open for vets and knew if they traded back they could use those for two way guys. So not what I would have done, but it makes sense as to why.

I think if we would have kept PJ, brought back Bobby as we did and brought back Hill as we did, then leave a roster spot open for a vet later, it would be about the perfect offseason coming off a championship. So I can't be that mad that PJ was the only guy we didn't retain and instead took some flyers on Hood, Semi and whoever else we finish off the roster with. NOT what I would have done but I can see the plan, I think.

[raferfenix]

Bucks are banking on Donte returning to form if not improving.

The luxury tax hesitancy would be somewhat more understandable if we plan to extend him too.

Donte’s foot problems seem scary but if Suki isn’t so worried maybe we lock him up on a (comparatively) value contract due to it.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

i think its interesting we tried to bring in bogdan last year for 18 mil per. doesnt make sense we win and then decide to go all cheap. maybe we just dont want to sign guys to bad deals?

This is a great point and I hadn't thought of it at all. What does it mean that we were willing to commit to a 4th almost 20m long term contract last summer and this year we won't re-sign PJ?

I think it probably means that, as others have pointed out, we didn't think we'd be able to keep Bobby, and we know we're going to have to pay him and/or Donte next summer. Bobby is likely going to come in at about the MLE level with Early Bird rights. Donte will probably be similar. Those two guys combined will be basically equivalent to Bogdan + BAE. Under this theory the tax bill on the 2nd year of PJ's contract, given he insisted on a 2nd year, would be astronomical.

TLDR: it's more about next year's books than this year's.

We still need more players.

Honestly thinking about it, I feel like we may have only offered PJ a one year deal and not budged on that. There's no way we don't at least offer Bobby the early bird deal next year and if we bring back Donte to a MLE sized deal, we already have 150m in salaries committed on 6 players. That's kind of crazy for a small market team.

You won't find many that have appreciated PJ more than I did. I liked him a lot before he came here and wanted to bring him here during the season (TBF I also wanted DJ gone after day 2 and PJ fit his salary slot nicely). And PJ had a major impact last year and is one reason we won the championship. But you have to seperate the attitude and culture he brought to this team from his on court play. And I don't think it's outlandish to think that the culture that changed for the better with PJ may persist without him. I do think we may have flipped a switch and PJ impacted other players long lasting so they can take part of his previous role. And if that is the case, his on court play is actually replaceable.

great responses both of you. i think i stumbled on something. i think what this also means is that despite whatever concern we may have here about the longterm health of ddv perhaps our front office doesnt feel concerned?

if in their minds ddv is 100% ready to go and is going to need a contract, then portis is all on board too, and maybe even patc opting out for a little raise and a longer deal as well.... then where does pj even get minutes and maybe at his age hes the least reliable health wise anyway.

next year if we commit multiple deals to ddv, portis and patc i think the last think were gonna call our owners is cheap. maybe were just not playing the long game here the way theyre forced to think

[raferfenix]

Letting Tucker walk could end up a Scott Williams caliber screw up.

Don’t get me wrong I want to believe there is a plan beyond the owners cheaping out.

Either way the ESPN industrial complex is going to kill us for it.

[CharityStripe34]

Player improvement is also a real thing. Fringe rotational players are cool but Gianni becoming more polished, coupled with both Khris and Jrue becoming more consistently productive raises this teams ceiling much more than Dennis Schroeder.

[Frank Nova]

And just one more time for the Zach Lavine lovers... In 2007 Monta Ellis averaged 20+ on 53% from the field in 38mins per night. He was also a career mid 40 FG% scorer and averaged 20+ over 4 seasons and is around 18ppg for his career.

I mean that’s pretty similar to Zach Lavine even considering last year he shot 50% from the field in 58 games and scored 25+.

What else does Zach Lavine do tho? And why is him being Monta Ellis not true? I said pseudo Ellis before, maybe I was being a hater for that.. but it’s definitely a fair comparison.

[WRau1]

Ultimately it doesn't matter who the hell we have as long as Giannis, Middleton and & Jrue are here. The rest should be a revolving door of serviceable guys. That's generally how it works when you have that much money tied up between 3 guys.

[higharc]

great responses both of you. i think i stumbled on something. i think what this also means is that despite whatever concern we may have here about the longterm health of ddv perhaps our front office doesnt feel concerned?

Check Horst's interview. He didn't seem too concerned.

[WRau1]

Letting Tucker walk could end up a Scott Williams caliber screw up.

Don’t get me wrong I want to believe there is a plan beyond the owners cheaping out.

Either way the ESPN industrial complex is going to kill us for it.

I think Giannis learning from Tucker is more important than Tucker actually being here.