Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Grayson Extended - 2/$20 million

[BigO]

For those wondering why some of us are salty on this, it is because the Bucks still have a great window here to repeat. The 2021 title was fantastic, but to quote Ron Wolf, you don't want to be a "fart in the wind" like he felt the 1996 Packers were, after they lost to Denver in 1997.

1) Khris and Jrue are at the end of their primes. When done, we won't have any exit strategies to replace them easily with similar caliber players.

2) Giannis is in his peak prime right now. Dude has been here EIGHT YEARS already. This is his moment for Jordan legacy greatness

3) The team only really needed to keep Bobby and PJ, while adding a combo scoring guard who is better (and healthier) than Donte.

That's it. That's all that needed to be done. And it wasn't.

Doesn't mean the window is closed. But it slipped down a few inches in the past week IMO.

You hit every point exactly right.

[emunney]

Nigeria had 9 current and future NBA players and Nwora was the only double digit scorer (21ppg). You can say what you will about him (I have) but the guy is a scoring machine.

Given the success Giannis has had playing with finishers like Bobby, you have to wonder how Nwora figured into the PJ plans. The Athletic piece mentioned going younger, and it was probably my anti-Nwora bias that kept me from recognizing that they weren't talking about signing a younger player, they were talking about Nwora. Let's hope he keeps his momentum in SL and shows enough defensively to get on the court in October.

Of course, the big logistical problem with Nwora is that if he's good, we can't keep him as using the Arenas provision hard caps you.

Can you explain this? Really, you can't sign your own 2nd rounder if you're over the cap?

The Arenas provision allows you to match any offer on a 1 or 2 year player such that any amount over the MLE is prorated over the 3rd and 4th years, but it hard caps you. So if you're over the apron, like we will be, you either can't match or you have to figure out how to get below the line. That said, it seems like a long shot that he's that good. If he's just reasonably good, and he wants to stay, we should be able to work something out before he signs an unmatchable offer sheet. We'll have Early Bird rights (175% of previous salary OR 105% of league average salary, whichever is higher), so it's not like we can't give him anything.

[BigO]

For those wondering why some of us are salty on this, it is because the Bucks still have a great window here to repeat. The 2021 title was fantastic, but to quote Ron Wolf, you don't want to be a "fart in the wind" like he felt the 1996 Packers were, after they lost to Denver in 1997.

1) Khris and Jrue are at the end of their primes. When done, we won't have any exit strategies to replace them easily with similar caliber players.

2) Giannis is in his peak prime right now. Dude has been here EIGHT YEARS already. This is his moment for Jordan legacy greatness

3) The team only really needed to keep Bobby and PJ, while adding a combo scoring guard who is better (and healthier) than Donte.

That's it. That's all that needed to be done. And it wasn't.

Doesn't mean the window is closed. But it slipped down a few inches in the past week IMO.

You hit every point exactly right.

[DingleJerry]

Nigeria had 9 current and future NBA players and Nwora was the only double digit scorer (21ppg). You can say what you will about him (I have) but the guy is a scoring machine.

Given the success Giannis has had playing with finishers like Bobby, you have to wonder how Nwora figured into the PJ plans. The Athletic piece mentioned going younger, and it was probably my anti-Nwora bias that kept me from recognizing that they weren't talking about signing a younger player, they were talking about Nwora. Let's hope he keeps his momentum in SL and shows enough defensively to get on the court in October.

Of course, the big logistical problem with Nwora is that if he's good, we can't keep him as using the Arenas provision hard caps you.

Can you explain this? Really, you can't sign your own 2nd rounder if you're over the cap?

The Arenas provision allows you to match any offer on a 1 or 2 year player such that any amount over the MLE is prorated over the 3rd and 4th years, but it hard caps you. So if you're over the apron, like we will be, you either can't match or you have to figure out how to get below the line. That said, it seems like a long shot that he's that good. If he's just reasonably good, and he wants to stay, we should be able to work something out before he signs an unmatchable offer sheet. We'll have Early Bird rights (175% of previous salary OR 105% of league average salary, whichever is higher), so it's not like we can't give him anything.

Gotcha thanks. So yes we just have to work out before getting to the offer sheet. I was gonna say that would be crazy otherwise. Makes sense now.

[BucksFanSD]

Come on gents, this is just absurd. Your rookie last year avergaed 26.3 PPG his three games with 30+ minutes, and 21 PPG in the Olympics (those are Big Dog numbers). Now you think he has no hope as an NBA basketball player and you want to cut hm from this team?? Forbes likely can't even do the above, and Nwora can rebound and is a taller/bigger Forbes and has more potential on D than him if you give him an opportunity! Play Nwora consistently for a while and make a determination on him. For goodness sakes, don't cut the guy from the team!

[Pachinko_]

I think Bud has a fixation with monstrous physical defenders, I don't think he ever plays Nwora when it matters.
I mean look at the team:
The Ante brothers are both freaks, just one is smaller than the other
Lopez is a giant brick wall
Tucker/Ojeleye are basically body builders
DDV/Pat are about as bouncy as a white dude can get
Jrue has legs like tree trunks
Bobby is an enforcer
Even Khris was actually pretty physical when he had to

That's the kind of guy that plays for the Bucks under this coach. It all starts from physicality on D.
In my mind the Mamu/Nwora/Merrill/Kalaitzakis types have no hope, ever, for this reason. Might be wrong, but that's my gut feel with Bud.

[paulpressey25]

Come on gents, this is just absurd. Your rookie last year avergaed 26.3 PPG his three games with 30+ minutes, and 21 PPG in the Olympics (those are Big Dog numbers). Now you think he has no hope as an NBA basketball player and you want to cut hm from this team?? Forbes likely can't even do the above, and Nwora can rebound and is a taller/bigger Forbes and has more potential on D than him if you give him an opportunity! Play Nwora consistently for a while and make a determination on him. For goodness sakes, don't cut the guy from the team!

Where does anyone say we want to cut Nwora? He's obviously talented enough you keep him around another year or two and see if he "gets it"

But, I think a few of us are cautioning that Nwora has a long way to go before he could be a significant part of a Bud coached, contending team. Hence I wouldn't rely on the guy for anything.

Now, if you want to talk about guys to cut, Diakite, Merrill and Bryant are all guys that to me are easily expendable immediately if you need another roster spot.

[SupremeHustle]

Thanks for the correction, Dr. Wood. I guess I was wrong when I said the Bucks sucked in Feb 2020. I knew they sucked before the shutdown, I just thought they sucked for a longer stretch than they actually did I guess.

Anywho, I'm so sorry, you guys.

[bucksfansince88]

is Thanasis coming back?

[emunney]

Ben Sullivan's going to the Celtics. Time to get someone else to **** with Giannis.

[emunney]

is Thanasis coming back?

It's weird that he's not in yet. I wonder what options he's weighing, and what we offered.

[leroyjw10]

Come on gents, this is just absurd. Your rookie last year avergaed 26.3 PPG his three games with 30+ minutes, and 21 PPG in the Olympics (those are Big Dog numbers). Now you think he has no hope as an NBA basketball player and you want to cut hm from this team?? Forbes likely can't even do the above, and Nwora can rebound and is a taller/bigger Forbes and has more potential on D than him if you give him an opportunity! Play Nwora consistently for a while and make a determination on him. For goodness sakes, don't cut the guy from the team!

Where does anyone say we want to cut Nwora? He's obviously talented enough you keep him around another year or two and see if he "gets it"

But, I think a few of us are cautioning that Nwora has a long way to go before he could be a significant part of a Bud coached, contending team. Hence I wouldn't rely on the guy for anything.

Now, if you want to talk about guys to cut, Diakite, Merrill and Bryant are all guys that to me are easily expendable immediately if you need another roster spot.

I really like Diakite and given the lack of big depth right now, and the lack of big depth on the FA market, I'd keep him around. He's a little spastic, but he's got a good looking outside shot, touch in the paint, and will be a switchable big on defense.

I'd be fine cutting Merrill or Bryant in favor of an Exum or Arcidiacono type. I like that we brought George back, but I don't trust his health. We need another true ballhandler on this team, and Merrill or Bryant ain't it. If I had to choose, I'd cut Merrill first. I like his shooting, but don't see enough elsewhere. Plus, reading the tea leaves (e.g. Bud giving Bryant a few legit playoff minutes), I'd guess the Bucks like Elijah better.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

For those wondering why some of us are salty on this, it is because the Bucks still have a great window here to repeat. The 2021 title was fantastic, but to quote Ron Wolf, you don't want to be a "fart in the wind" like he felt the 1996 Packers were, after they lost to Denver in 1997.

1) Khris and Jrue are at the end of their primes. When done, we won't have any exit strategies to replace them easily with similar caliber players.

2) Giannis is in his peak prime right now. Dude has been here EIGHT YEARS already. This is his moment for Jordan legacy greatness

3) The team only really needed to keep Bobby and PJ, while adding a combo scoring guard who is better (and healthier) than Donte.

That's it. That's all that needed to be done. And it wasn't.

Doesn't mean the window is closed. But it slipped down a few inches in the past week IMO.

1. when khris and jrue poop out giannis will recruit luka etc. he'll have the most pull in the league and that is the blueprint for relevency. maybe we can be san antonio where giannis just chills and they keep reloading but they are the exception. lebron, steph, harden, AD, wade, kawhi, pg, westbrook, paul and durants way colluding is the actual blueprint.

2. giannis prime just started. the next 8 years is his prime. probably the first half of that prime is covered with jrue and mids already. not sure why were worried about giannis on his next deal just yet?

3. the team didnt need to retain or replace specific people. thats a core thing. we have the right people and we have the right core. what we needed was to retain some very basic and specific roles. we wont know if that happened until a few months from now.

[raferfenix]

If we kept PJ I’d be thrilled with this offseason (despite trading down from #31).

Portis staying is huge and it sucks that it was followed a few hours later with such a controversial if not callous decision.

George Hill for all his faults is proven in our system which is especially important given the variable of Donte’s health.

I bet the Bucks were talking to Patty Mills and Oladipo. Mills would have been better than Hill but Oladipo’s injuries are so serious that I wouldn’t sweat it.

Other than them though idk whether we really had a chance at any of the other top guys we’ve been talking about. Green, Jackson, Oubre, and probably Schroder all will end up outside our price range.

[SupremeHustle]

The frustrating part about this offseason is the Nets got so much better on paper by adding certified NBA role players, while the Bucks are left to hope Jordan Nwora and Sam Merrill can replace Bryn Forbes.

Unless the Bucks trade Merrill for someone like Grayson Allen. That could work.

[drew881]

is Thanasis coming back?

It's weird that he's not in yet. I wonder what options he's weighing, and what we offered.

Had two of his best games in 5 and 6 without TA. I wonder if his hype man gets him too hyped? Probably a BS hot take, but also wondering if its mission accomplished and TA wants to pursue his own path.

[emunney]

is Thanasis coming back?

It's weird that he's not in yet. I wonder what options he's weighing, and what we offered.

Had two of his best games in 5 and 6 without TA. I wonder if his hype man gets him too hyped? Probably a BS hot take, but also wondering if its mission accomplished and TA wants to pursue his own path.

Yeah, I mean, he's got to have some decent Euroleague options even if he doesn't have anything more in the NBA than a minimum offer from the Bucks. He clearly loves the game, maybe he wants to play it?

[WRau1]

Mills is pretty much unplayable in the playoffs because of how terrible a defender he is. What he is isn't enough to make up for what he isn't. Hill is better.

[LuessiT]

Can you explain this? Really, you can't sign your own 2nd rounder if you're over the cap?

The Arenas provision allows you to match any offer on a 1 or 2 year player such that any amount over the MLE is prorated over the 3rd and 4th years, but it hard caps you. So if you're over the apron, like we will be, you either can't match or you have to figure out how to get below the line. That said, it seems like a long shot that he's that good. If he's just reasonably good, and he wants to stay, we should be able to work something out before he signs an unmatchable offer sheet. We'll have Early Bird rights (175% of previous salary OR 105% of league average salary, whichever is higher), so it's not like we can't give him anything.

Gotcha thanks. So yes we just have to work out before getting to the offer sheet. I was gonna say that would be crazy otherwise. Makes sense now.

I mean yes and no. If he gets like 4/60 or more on the market with the Arenas provision and insists on signing it we can't do much. But we can offer him as much as any other team year 1 and then promise to bump him up via full bird rights later. Obviously those are extreme cases and if he gets there we will have had a very productive player.

[higharc]

Nwora's defense in the Olympics wasn't Jabari bad like some of you are saying. He played within his team's defensive plan. He had a few bad plays but he wasn't destructive by any means. He should have regular 2nd-3rd quarter minutes at the start of the season to see if he can be our scorer from the bench. If he isn't in Bud's plans sell high now.