2021-22 regular season thread

[jbk1234]

The only thing I can point to that is on the front office was the Beilein, Sexton, Love fallout in Sexton's second year. I can see vets looking at how that situation was allowed to devolve, under the pretense of development, and passing.

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[LivingLegend]

The only thing I can point to that is on the front office was the Beilein, Sexton, Love fallout in Sexton's second year. I can see vets looking at how that situation was allowed to devolve, under the pretense of development, and passing.

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Starting at Small Forward for your Cleeeeeeeevellllannnnndd Cavalieeeeeeerrsss

Kevinnnnn......Porterrrrrrrrrr..... JUNIORRRR

[Revenged25]

The only thing I can point to that is on the front office was the Beilein, Sexton, Love fallout in Sexton's second year. I can see vets looking at how that situation was allowed to devolve, under the pretense of development, and passing.

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Starting at Small Forward for your Cleeeeeeeevellllannnnndd Cavalieeeeeeerrsss

Kevinnnnn......Porterrrrrrrrrr..... JUNIORRRR

I think KPJ getting into trouble in the off-season really killed the Cavs season. I think the FO/Coaching staff didn't think depth at 1-3 was as bad as it was because they were banking on KPJ being able jump into those roles as needed so if someone went down they still had a good option. Once he wasn't available our lack of quality depth at PG, SG, and SF really showed.

[JonFromVA]

The only thing I can point to that is on the front office was the Beilein, Sexton, Love fallout in Sexton's second year. I can see vets looking at how that situation was allowed to devolve, under the pretense of development, and passing.

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Starting at Small Forward for your Cleeeeeeeevellllannnnndd Cavalieeeeeeerrsss

Kevinnnnn......Porterrrrrrrrrr..... JUNIORRRR

I think KPJ getting into trouble in the off-season really killed the Cavs season. I think the FO/Coaching staff didn't think depth at 1-3 was as bad as it was because they were banking on KPJ being able jump into those roles as needed so if someone went down they still had a good option. Once he wasn't available our lack of quality depth at PG, SG, and SF really showed.

Even a mentally 100% ready KPJ was more a wild card than a solution. The Cavs and the Rockers were oddly both 6.7 pp100 better when KPJ was off the floor.

What we missed out on was the ability to experiment with KPJ in different lineups, but the injuries to Love, Nance, Windler, Exum, etc, and the Drummond turmoil did an even bigger number on our ability to try to build some successful lineups.

KPJ's ISO heavy play-style may have never meshed with Sexton or Garland or moved beyond each player taking a turn pounding the ball, but would have been nice if we had the opportunity to see.

[jbk1234]

The only thing I can point to that is on the front office was the Beilein, Sexton, Love fallout in Sexton's second year. I can see vets looking at how that situation was allowed to devolve, under the pretense of development, and passing.

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Starting at Small Forward for your Cleeeeeeeevellllannnnndd Cavalieeeeeeerrsss

Kevinnnnn......Porterrrrrrrrrr..... JUNIORRRR

Meh, I'd be surprised if players view the KPJ fallout as the Cavs fault. He fell to 30 before he set foot in Cleveland.

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[jbk1234]

Rationally, it's probably better for the Cavs to keep their MLE open for in-season flexibility then to overspend on bad players, but emotionally, it's tough to watch them walk away empty handed from F.A.

We need shooters.

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[JonFromVA]

Rationally, it's probably better for the Cavs to keep their MLE open for in-season flexibility then to overspend on bad players, but emotionally, it's tough to watch them walk away empty handed from F.A.

We need shooters.

Hart is still a possibility, but he's restricted. I wonder if there's a scenario where New Orleans would just end up giving up their hold on him?

It would make Nance happy to get him, but I see no reason to imagine he'd be an upgrade over Okoro at SF in pretty much any respect.

But for the right price, I wouldn't mind seeing if he can gets his shooting stroke back.

Anyway, once all the other money dries up and/or teams have to start making roster decisions, having our MLE left may finally give us an advantage over other teams.

[LivingLegend]

The only thing I can point to that is on the front office was the Beilein, Sexton, Love fallout in Sexton's second year. I can see vets looking at how that situation was allowed to devolve, under the pretense of development, and passing.

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Starting at Small Forward for your Cleeeeeeeevellllannnnndd Cavalieeeeeeerrsss

Kevinnnnn......Porterrrrrrrrrr..... JUNIORRRR

I think KPJ getting into trouble in the off-season really killed the Cavs season. I think the FO/Coaching staff didn't think depth at 1-3 was as bad as it was because they were banking on KPJ being able jump into those roles as needed so if someone went down they still had a good option. Once he wasn't available our lack of quality depth at PG, SG, and SF really showed.

Yep, and Ive argued about it before to the 'he was given plenty of chances' crowd--but literally giving Kevin Porter Jr. away for a ham sandwich and a Razor scooter set this franchise back at bare minimum 5 years. We have been looking for somebody with his EXACT skillset at SF ever since. YOU HAD IT and you gave it away.

I understand he was a immature knucklehead, but you knew that when you traded FOUR SECOND ROUNDERS to draft him the year before. You knew it was going to be bumpy at times. For a organization like the Cavs who cant attract talent to save their lives, getting rid of him after 1 season because he threw a 19 year old temper tantrum about a locker was detrimental.

Hes acting up, stick him in the G-League until he figures it out. Just like the Rockets did. Have a conversation with his agent. You are the Cleveland Cavaliers, you dont have the benefit of the doubt to get rid of talent like that and expect to just sign a replacement in free agency. Read...the...room.

AGGGHHHAHAH That situation STILL pisses me off to this day because just imagine he was still on this team right now and how bright the future with Garland/Okoro/KPJ/Mobley/Allen would really be. Now we are left wandering the wasteland of crippled SFs in free agency trying to find somebody who is not good, just not embarrassingly bad.

Now we are going to overpay Josh Hart of all people to be a backup and play Okoro out of position because a professional sports franchise with grown men leading it couldnt figure out how to put their foot down and help a 19 y/o realize his potential.

Ill never get over it sorry.



I find it increcingly difficult to support a franchise who is constantly in 1 step forward--2 steps backwards mode.

[jbk1234]

Starting at Small Forward for your Cleeeeeeeevellllannnnndd Cavalieeeeeeerrsss

Kevinnnnn......Porterrrrrrrrrr..... JUNIORRRR

I think KPJ getting into trouble in the off-season really killed the Cavs season. I think the FO/Coaching staff didn't think depth at 1-3 was as bad as it was because they were banking on KPJ being able jump into those roles as needed so if someone went down they still had a good option. Once he wasn't available our lack of quality depth at PG, SG, and SF really showed.

Yep, and Ive argued about it before to the 'he was given plenty of chances' crowd--but literally giving Kevin Porter Jr. away for a ham sandwich and a Razor scooter set this franchise back at bare minimum 5 years. We have been looking for somebody with his EXACT skillset at SF ever since. YOU HAD IT and you gave it away.

I understand he was a immature knucklehead, but you knew that when you traded FOUR SECOND ROUNDERS to draft him the year before. You knew it was going to be bumpy at times. For a organization like the Cavs who cant attract talent to save their lives, getting rid of him after 1 season because he threw a 19 year old temper tantrum about a locker was detrimental.

Hes acting up, stick him in the G-League until he figures it out. Just like the Rockets did. Have a conversation with his agent. You are the Cleveland Cavaliers, you dont have the benefit of the doubt to get rid of talent like that and expect to just sign a replacement in free agency. Read...the...room.

AGGGHHHAHAH That situation STILL pisses me off to this day because just imagine he was still on this team right now and how bright the future with Garland/Okoro/KPJ/Mobley/Allen would really be. Now we are left wandering the wasteland of crippled SFs in free agency trying to find somebody who is not good, just not embarrassingly bad.

Ill never get over it sorry.

Five years at a minimum seems way overstated. The Rockets had the worst record in the NBA last season. Even if you ignore all the off court stuff, KPJ has some pretty crazy swings in terms of game-to-game production. He still goes off, has a big night, and then disappears for a couple games. His defense still needs a lot of work. We still have to see how he meshes with Green who is an on-the-ball guard.

I'm very skeptical that he could've coexisted with Sexton long term and he's already burned through half his rookie deal.

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[Wisedude]

What if Josh Hart and his agent have told David Griffin that Hart does not want to return to NO. Then Griffin would have to figure out the next best thing to do. So many teams have filled up and shot their wad in free agency & sign-n-trades.

As of 12Noon EST, all of these FA moves are being finalized with the NBA Office.

[jbk1234]

What if Josh Hart and his agent have told David Griffin that Hart does not want to return to NO. Then Griffin would have to figure out the next best thing to do. So many teams have filled up and shot their wad in free agency & sign-n-trades.

As of 12Noon EST, all of these FA moves are being finalized with the NBA Office.

Many, not all. Like Homes can't legally sign for the announced amount. The Kings don't presently have the cap space. Some of the S&T deals need other teams to complete. Are Dipo and his agent in that much of a hurry to sign a league-minimum deal?

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[LivingLegend]

I think KPJ getting into trouble in the off-season really killed the Cavs season. I think the FO/Coaching staff didn't think depth at 1-3 was as bad as it was because they were banking on KPJ being able jump into those roles as needed so if someone went down they still had a good option. Once he wasn't available our lack of quality depth at PG, SG, and SF really showed.

Yep, and Ive argued about it before to the 'he was given plenty of chances' crowd--but literally giving Kevin Porter Jr. away for a ham sandwich and a Razor scooter set this franchise back at bare minimum 5 years. We have been looking for somebody with his EXACT skillset at SF ever since. YOU HAD IT and you gave it away.

I understand he was a immature knucklehead, but you knew that when you traded FOUR SECOND ROUNDERS to draft him the year before. You knew it was going to be bumpy at times. For a organization like the Cavs who cant attract talent to save their lives, getting rid of him after 1 season because he threw a 19 year old temper tantrum about a locker was detrimental.

Hes acting up, stick him in the G-League until he figures it out. Just like the Rockets did. Have a conversation with his agent. You are the Cleveland Cavaliers, you dont have the benefit of the doubt to get rid of talent like that and expect to just sign a replacement in free agency. Read...the...room.

AGGGHHHAHAH That situation STILL pisses me off to this day because just imagine he was still on this team right now and how bright the future with Garland/Okoro/KPJ/Mobley/Allen would really be. Now we are left wandering the wasteland of crippled SFs in free agency trying to find somebody who is not good, just not embarrassingly bad.

Ill never get over it sorry.

Five years at a minimum seems way overstated. The Rockets had the worst record in the NBA last season. Even if you ignore all the off court stuff, KPJ has some pretty crazy swings in terms of game-to-game production. He still goes off, has a big night, and then disappears for a couple games. His defense still needs a lot of work. We still have to see how he meshes with Green who is an on-the-ball guard.

I'm very skeptical that he could've coexisted with Sexton long term and he's already burned through half his rookie deal.

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I think your underestimating, not overestimating the years it set this team back and what his impact could have been for the growth of this team. We are already in year 2 without him and still have no replacement. On top of that he liked it here and he was BFFs with Garland who talked about building a dynasty....in Cleveland....

After watching KPJ play for just 1 season--I would have driven Collin Sexton to the airport myself and packed his bags for him if their fit ever became a question.

He averaged 17/6/4 last year on a new team at 20 y/o while playing good defense, sure he still young and working on his game--but the end result when he reaches his prime is going to be really good. Hes not even close to tapping into what hes capable of at 24/25 years old yet and those are the exact type of prospects the Cavs need.

All I wanted was to see Okoro and KPJ on the wings and I never got the chance and it makes me furious.

[Revenged25]

Yep, and Ive argued about it before to the 'he was given plenty of chances' crowd--but literally giving Kevin Porter Jr. away for a ham sandwich and a Razor scooter set this franchise back at bare minimum 5 years. We have been looking for somebody with his EXACT skillset at SF ever since. YOU HAD IT and you gave it away.

I understand he was a immature knucklehead, but you knew that when you traded FOUR SECOND ROUNDERS to draft him the year before. You knew it was going to be bumpy at times. For a organization like the Cavs who cant attract talent to save their lives, getting rid of him after 1 season because he threw a 19 year old temper tantrum about a locker was detrimental.

Hes acting up, stick him in the G-League until he figures it out. Just like the Rockets did. Have a conversation with his agent. You are the Cleveland Cavaliers, you dont have the benefit of the doubt to get rid of talent like that and expect to just sign a replacement in free agency. Read...the...room.

AGGGHHHAHAH That situation STILL pisses me off to this day because just imagine he was still on this team right now and how bright the future with Garland/Okoro/KPJ/Mobley/Allen would really be. Now we are left wandering the wasteland of crippled SFs in free agency trying to find somebody who is not good, just not embarrassingly bad.

Ill never get over it sorry.

Five years at a minimum seems way overstated. The Rockets had the worst record in the NBA last season. Even if you ignore all the off court stuff, KPJ has some pretty crazy swings in terms of game-to-game production. He still goes off, has a big night, and then disappears for a couple games. His defense still needs a lot of work. We still have to see how he meshes with Green who is an on-the-ball guard.

I'm very skeptical that he could've coexisted with Sexton long term and he's already burned through half his rookie deal.

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I think your underestimating, not overestimating the years it set this team back and what his impact could have been for the growth of this team. We are already in year 2 without him and still have no replacement. On top of that he liked it here and he was BFFs with Garland who talked about building a dynasty....in Cleveland....

After watching KPJ play for just 1 season--I would have driven Collin Sexton to the airport myself and packed his bags for him if their fit ever became a question.

He averaged 17/6/4 last year on a new team at 20 y/o while playing good defense, sure he still young and working on his game--but the end result when he reaches his prime is going to be really good. Hes not even close to tapping into what hes capable of at 24/25 years old yet and those are the exact type of prospects the Cavs need.

All I wanted was to see Okoro and KPJ on the wings and I never got the chance and it makes me furious.

And people think I'm unreasonable with my Sexton takes... KPJ is definitely talented, but after getting trouble in the off-season and then the locker room incident, there was no way the Cavs could've kept KPJ even if they sent him to the G-League. If they allowed that type of behavior when he was basically still on behavioral parole from his off-season misconduct they would've risked losing the entire team. People want to talk about losing some of the team for how they forced Sexton minutes his rookie year or how Byron Scott I think it was lost the team because he never criticized Irving even when it was deserved, but letting KPJ who still hadn't established himself as an elite player to get away with that, yeah it wasn't possible. I do agree that trading him for a pick that would never convey was a little ridiculous, but he couldn't stay with the team anymore.

Also why does everyone want to get rid of Sexton? He's been our best player the past 2 years and the losing isn't his fault. We've had a bad roster 2 years ago, and this past year we started the season off strong because of Sexton's strong play as the leading scorer until injuries and the Drummond turmoil had it all crash down. I know he has his faults but he's improved on them every single year while also increasing his strengths so why is everyone so quick to get rid of him? Cuz the team's been losing even though they've had either a bad roster or were injury plagued while also having to deal with mediocre at best coaching?

Even trying to point at the advanced stats, which his are right in line with Bookers when the Suns were still trying to get it together and were a bottom team, and trying to compare them to Garland, most aren't taking into account that the only 2 consistent scorers on our roster this season were Sexton and Garland which Sexton only played 51.9% of his minutes with Garland, 1100/2119, while Garland played 61.5% of his minutes with Sexton, 1100/1790. If you want to use an advanced stat, look at the win shares even. Sexton isn't a negative player, the Cavs, especially with all the injuries etc, were just a negative team. This year if they are healthy they're going to be a lot better, just watch.

[yoyoboy]

KPJ isn’t very good. I will never understand this fanbase’s obsession over him.

[JonFromVA]

Five years at a minimum seems way overstated. The Rockets had the worst record in the NBA last season. Even if you ignore all the off court stuff, KPJ has some pretty crazy swings in terms of game-to-game production. He still goes off, has a big night, and then disappears for a couple games. His defense still needs a lot of work. We still have to see how he meshes with Green who is an on-the-ball guard.

I'm very skeptical that he could've coexisted with Sexton long term and he's already burned through half his rookie deal.

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I think your underestimating, not overestimating the years it set this team back and what his impact could have been for the growth of this team. We are already in year 2 without him and still have no replacement. On top of that he liked it here and he was BFFs with Garland who talked about building a dynasty....in Cleveland....

After watching KPJ play for just 1 season--I would have driven Collin Sexton to the airport myself and packed his bags for him if their fit ever became a question.

He averaged 17/6/4 last year on a new team at 20 y/o while playing good defense, sure he still young and working on his game--but the end result when he reaches his prime is going to be really good. Hes not even close to tapping into what hes capable of at 24/25 years old yet and those are the exact type of prospects the Cavs need.

All I wanted was to see Okoro and KPJ on the wings and I never got the chance and it makes me furious.

And people think I'm unreasonable with my Sexton takes... KPJ is definitely talented, but after getting trouble in the off-season and then the locker room incident, there was no way the Cavs could've kept KPJ even if they sent him to the G-League. If they allowed that type of behavior when he was basically still on behavioral parole from his off-season misconduct they would've risked losing the entire team. People want to talk about losing some of the team for how they forced Sexton minutes his rookie year or how Byron Scott I think it was lost the team because he never criticized Irving even when it was deserved, but letting KPJ who still hadn't established himself as an elite player to get away with that, yeah it wasn't possible. I do agree that trading him for a pick that would never convey was a little ridiculous, but he couldn't stay with the team anymore.

Also why does everyone want to get rid of Sexton? He's been our best player the past 2 years and the losing isn't his fault. We've had a bad roster 2 years ago, and this past year we started the season off strong because of Sexton's strong play as the leading scorer until injuries and the Drummond turmoil had it all crash down. I know he has his faults but he's improved on them every single year while also increasing his strengths so why is everyone so quick to get rid of him? Cuz the team's been losing even though they've had either a bad roster or were injury plagued while also having to deal with mediocre at best coaching?

Even trying to point at the advanced stats, which his are right in line with Bookers when the Suns were still trying to get it together and were a bottom team, and trying to compare them to Garland, most aren't taking into account that the only 2 consistent scorers on our roster this season were Sexton and Garland which Sexton only played 51.9% of his minutes with Garland, 1100/2119, while Garland played 61.5% of his minutes with Sexton, 1100/1790. If you want to use an advanced stat, look at the win shares even. Sexton isn't a negative player, the Cavs, especially with all the injuries etc, were just a negative team. This year if they are healthy they're going to be a lot better, just watch.

29 teams didn't draft KPJ in the first place, pretty much all of them would have dumped him even sooner than the Cavs did, only Houston was willing to give him a second chance if it meant giving up nothing.

Gotta stop bemoaning this stuff.

Unless you'd prefer the Cavs just not take risks.

btw, not everyone wants to get rid of Sexton, but given he's due an extension and he hasn't grown any taller it's time to figure out if the team and Collin are on the same page regarding his projection and value, and if we're not (we aren't) then we have to consider alternatives to letting him walk in a year as a free-agent.

With the Knicks loading up on PG's and players the Cavs would probably not want back in a trade and the Heat bringing in Lowry and losing some of those non-guaranteed contracts ... it's looking more and more like Collin is going to be around for awhile.

Otoh, the Cavs have been very quiet, so perhaps you should be worried. lol

[LivingLegend]

Five years at a minimum seems way overstated. The Rockets had the worst record in the NBA last season. Even if you ignore all the off court stuff, KPJ has some pretty crazy swings in terms of game-to-game production. He still goes off, has a big night, and then disappears for a couple games. His defense still needs a lot of work. We still have to see how he meshes with Green who is an on-the-ball guard.

I'm very skeptical that he could've coexisted with Sexton long term and he's already burned through half his rookie deal.

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I think your underestimating, not overestimating the years it set this team back and what his impact could have been for the growth of this team. We are already in year 2 without him and still have no replacement. On top of that he liked it here and he was BFFs with Garland who talked about building a dynasty....in Cleveland....

After watching KPJ play for just 1 season--I would have driven Collin Sexton to the airport myself and packed his bags for him if their fit ever became a question.

He averaged 17/6/4 last year on a new team at 20 y/o while playing good defense, sure he still young and working on his game--but the end result when he reaches his prime is going to be really good. Hes not even close to tapping into what hes capable of at 24/25 years old yet and those are the exact type of prospects the Cavs need.

All I wanted was to see Okoro and KPJ on the wings and I never got the chance and it makes me furious.

And people think I'm unreasonable with my Sexton takes... KPJ is definitely talented, but after getting trouble in the off-season and then the locker room incident, there was no way the Cavs could've kept KPJ even if they sent him to the G-League. If they allowed that type of behavior when he was basically still on behavioral parole from his off-season misconduct they would've risked losing the entire team. People want to talk about losing some of the team for how they forced Sexton minutes his rookie year or how Byron Scott I think it was lost the team because he never criticized Irving even when it was deserved, but letting KPJ who still hadn't established himself as an elite player to get away with that, yeah it wasn't possible. I do agree that trading him for a pick that would never convey was a little ridiculous, but he couldn't stay with the team anymore.

Also why does everyone want to get rid of Sexton? He's been our best player the past 2 years and the losing isn't his fault. We've had a bad roster 2 years ago, and this past year we started the season off strong because of Sexton's strong play as the leading scorer until injuries and the Drummond turmoil had it all crash down. I know he has his faults but he's improved on them every single year while also increasing his strengths so why is everyone so quick to get rid of him? Cuz the team's been losing even though they've had either a bad roster or were injury plagued while also having to deal with mediocre at best coaching?

Even trying to point at the advanced stats, which his are right in line with Bookers when the Suns were still trying to get it together and were a bottom team, and trying to compare them to Garland, most aren't taking into account that the only 2 consistent scorers on our roster this season were Sexton and Garland which Sexton only played 51.9% of his minutes with Garland, 1100/2119, while Garland played 61.5% of his minutes with Sexton, 1100/1790. If you want to use an advanced stat, look at the win shares even. Sexton isn't a negative player, the Cavs, especially with all the injuries etc, were just a negative team. This year if they are healthy they're going to be a lot better, just watch.

I mean they let JR Smith throw soup at a coach and dealt with his nonsense, they let Kevin Love basically shred their young players in interviews and throw temper tantrums on the court every week. The Cavs have let a lot of nonsense slide--not sure why KPJ was the person they chose to put their foot down with.

Im just not sure a franchise that is so talent deprived can look back on getting rid of him after dumping 4 second rounders to get him the year before would say "yeah that was the right choice, we are happier now"

I understand that Sexton is good, but he is nowhere close to having the potential or all-around ability that KPJ has. He is one dimensional, Porter is mult-dimentional. If it was between either of those 2 players for the long term given all things equal, its KPJ in a landslide. Sexton is a good ISO scorer but thats where his superlatives stop. He cant pass, he cant defend, he has trouble anticipating, ect. Porter Jr. at SF was racking up 6 assists per game while being able to guard 3 different positions and he also showed volume scoring/take over game ability.

[Revenged25]

I think your underestimating, not overestimating the years it set this team back and what his impact could have been for the growth of this team. We are already in year 2 without him and still have no replacement. On top of that he liked it here and he was BFFs with Garland who talked about building a dynasty....in Cleveland....

After watching KPJ play for just 1 season--I would have driven Collin Sexton to the airport myself and packed his bags for him if their fit ever became a question.

He averaged 17/6/4 last year on a new team at 20 y/o while playing good defense, sure he still young and working on his game--but the end result when he reaches his prime is going to be really good. Hes not even close to tapping into what hes capable of at 24/25 years old yet and those are the exact type of prospects the Cavs need.

All I wanted was to see Okoro and KPJ on the wings and I never got the chance and it makes me furious.

And people think I'm unreasonable with my Sexton takes... KPJ is definitely talented, but after getting trouble in the off-season and then the locker room incident, there was no way the Cavs could've kept KPJ even if they sent him to the G-League. If they allowed that type of behavior when he was basically still on behavioral parole from his off-season misconduct they would've risked losing the entire team. People want to talk about losing some of the team for how they forced Sexton minutes his rookie year or how Byron Scott I think it was lost the team because he never criticized Irving even when it was deserved, but letting KPJ who still hadn't established himself as an elite player to get away with that, yeah it wasn't possible. I do agree that trading him for a pick that would never convey was a little ridiculous, but he couldn't stay with the team anymore.

Also why does everyone want to get rid of Sexton? He's been our best player the past 2 years and the losing isn't his fault. We've had a bad roster 2 years ago, and this past year we started the season off strong because of Sexton's strong play as the leading scorer until injuries and the Drummond turmoil had it all crash down. I know he has his faults but he's improved on them every single year while also increasing his strengths so why is everyone so quick to get rid of him? Cuz the team's been losing even though they've had either a bad roster or were injury plagued while also having to deal with mediocre at best coaching?

Even trying to point at the advanced stats, which his are right in line with Bookers when the Suns were still trying to get it together and were a bottom team, and trying to compare them to Garland, most aren't taking into account that the only 2 consistent scorers on our roster this season were Sexton and Garland which Sexton only played 51.9% of his minutes with Garland, 1100/2119, while Garland played 61.5% of his minutes with Sexton, 1100/1790. If you want to use an advanced stat, look at the win shares even. Sexton isn't a negative player, the Cavs, especially with all the injuries etc, were just a negative team. This year if they are healthy they're going to be a lot better, just watch.

I mean they let JR Smith throw soup at a coach and dealt with his nonsense, they let Kevin Love basically shred their young players in interviews and throw temper tantrums on the court every week. The Cavs have let a lot of nonsense slide--not sure why KPJ was the person they chose to put their foot down with.

Im just not sure a franchise that is so talent deprived can look back on getting rid of him after dumping 4 second rounders to get him the year before would say "yeah that was the right choice, we are happier now"

I understand that Sexton is good, but he is nowhere close to having the potential or all-around ability that KPJ has. He is one dimensional, Porter is mult-dimentional. If it was between either of those 2 players for the long term given all things equal, its KPJ in a landslide. Sexton is a good ISO scorer but thats where his superlatives stop. He cant pass, he cant defend, he has trouble anticipating, ect. Porter Jr. at SF was racking up 6 assists per game while being able to guard 3 different positions and he also showed volume scoring/take over game ability.

1) Didn't JR Smith happen when LeBron was here still and running things? Yeah LeBron ran things so it didn't matter.
2) Love is also being paid a ridiculous amount of money that they can't move even if they wanted to, which we all know they pretty much did. Vastly different situations, not to mention Love has established himself in the league, he might have been injured the past few years, but he has enough goodwill that he can get away with tearing into the young players a little, though definitely not something he should do. Vastly different situation.
3) 4 second round picks is nothing to be worried about. If it was a lightly protected 1st when bad, that's one thing, or drafted in the lotto etc, but 4 seconds, let me know when an actually valuable asset was attached.
4) KPJ was playing as the PG, he's going to get 6 assists. When Sexton was playing as the full-time PG in the last month he averaged 24/6 so what's your point? Sexton's 4.4 assists as a SG is perfectly fine. Also outside of Garland who was Sexton supposed to actually dish to? Granted he found them in the last part of the year. You say Sexton is just an Iso scorer, but he still shot 37% on 4.4 3PA so he can obviously shoot from range too, I mean sure KPJ took 6.2 3PA, but he shot it at 31%... if you look at his TS% he was horrid. On top of that at least Sexton had a positive VORP... KPJ is still in the negatives...

[Revenged25]

29 teams didn't draft KPJ in the first place, pretty much all of them would have dumped him even sooner than the Cavs did, only Houston was willing to give him a second chance if it meant giving up nothing.

Gotta stop bemoaning this stuff.

Unless you'd prefer the Cavs just not take risks.

btw, not everyone wants to get rid of Sexton, but given he's due an extension and he hasn't grown any taller it's time to figure out if the team and Collin are on the same page regarding his projection and value, and if we're not (we aren't) then we have to consider alternatives to letting him walk in a year as a free-agent.

With the Knicks loading up on PG's and players the Cavs would probably not want back in a trade and the Heat bringing in Lowry and losing some of those non-guaranteed contracts ... it's looking more and more like Collin is going to be around for awhile.

Otoh, the Cavs have been very quiet, so perhaps you should be worried. lol

Seriously, height isn't everything as even though Booker is 6'5 he's just as bad defensively as Sexton and needs to be hidden as well, which is why they put Rubio and then CP3 next to him. Sexton has slowly but steadily been improving his defense and his passing since he came into the league while also becoming a much better scorer. He's not a finished project yet, he's improved each year on his weaknesses and strengths. Granted improving his weaknesses has seemed to be more of the slow and steady progress in regards to defense/passing while his improvements on offense have improved at a faster rate. That might be due to how the various coaching staffs have tried to focus the roles of Garland and Sexton, not to mention the last of consistency in schemes/teammate's health which can affect how well defense and passing improve while offense doesn't really rely anything else than your own ability.

I think if the Cavs are healthy, we might see a strong offensive and defensive team like we saw to start the year that can be ridden through the entire season. I mean early on with everyone healthy even Sexton looked adequate defensively, but once everyone started going down it went to crap for everyone except Okoro/Allen really.

[JonFromVA]

29 teams didn't draft KPJ in the first place, pretty much all of them would have dumped him even sooner than the Cavs did, only Houston was willing to give him a second chance if it meant giving up nothing.

Gotta stop bemoaning this stuff.

Unless you'd prefer the Cavs just not take risks.

btw, not everyone wants to get rid of Sexton, but given he's due an extension and he hasn't grown any taller it's time to figure out if the team and Collin are on the same page regarding his projection and value, and if we're not (we aren't) then we have to consider alternatives to letting him walk in a year as a free-agent.

With the Knicks loading up on PG's and players the Cavs would probably not want back in a trade and the Heat bringing in Lowry and losing some of those non-guaranteed contracts ... it's looking more and more like Collin is going to be around for awhile.

Otoh, the Cavs have been very quiet, so perhaps you should be worried. lol

Seriously, height isn't everything as even though Booker is 6'5 he's just as bad defensively as Sexton and needs to be hidden as well, which is why they put Rubio and then CP3 next to him. Sexton has slowly but steadily been improving his defense and his passing since he came into the league while also becoming a much better scorer. He's not a finished project yet, he's improved each year on his weaknesses and strengths. Granted improving his weaknesses has seemed to be more of the slow and steady progress in regards to defense/passing while his improvements on offense have improved at a faster rate. That might be due to how the various coaching staffs have tried to focus the roles of Garland and Sexton, not to mention the last of consistency in schemes/teammate's health which can affect how well defense and passing improve while offense doesn't really rely anything else than your own ability.

I think if the Cavs are healthy, we might see a strong offensive and defensive team like we saw to start the year that can be ridden through the entire season. I mean early on with everyone healthy even Sexton looked adequate defensively, but once everyone started going down it went to crap for everyone except Okoro/Allen really.

If the Cavs were winning games and Collin was driving the offense with his 25ppg, he'd be getting paid, but we're not ... so we are trying not to overpay a player who at the moment causes a team more problems than he solves.

So, it's a little more like the Zach LaVine situation who still hasn't won anything after putting up amazing offensive numbers.

The Bulls are still all in on Zach hoping they can find the magic formula to build a winner around him and convince him to re-sign ... but there's another way to look at it. What if the TWolves and Bulls have just wasted 7 years and $88M trying to get something out of Zach that just isn't going to happen?

I mean if there's any confusion about this, I really do believe we (and the Cavs) got their answer when they tried shopping him. Other teams see the dilemma and aren't very interested in giving up much to take on the potential risks and rewards.

Would it help if Collin was 6'5" like Zach is? Absolutely ... Zach was a big part in the Jimmy Butler trade in addition to the pick that became Lauri Markennen. If we could have traded our pick next year plus Collin for a SG/SF in his prime at the level of Jimmy Butler, we certainly would have done it. That's exactly the kind of deal the Cavs want, but it's simply not there for Collin.

At least not now ...

[Revenged25]

29 teams didn't draft KPJ in the first place, pretty much all of them would have dumped him even sooner than the Cavs did, only Houston was willing to give him a second chance if it meant giving up nothing.

Gotta stop bemoaning this stuff.

Unless you'd prefer the Cavs just not take risks.

btw, not everyone wants to get rid of Sexton, but given he's due an extension and he hasn't grown any taller it's time to figure out if the team and Collin are on the same page regarding his projection and value, and if we're not (we aren't) then we have to consider alternatives to letting him walk in a year as a free-agent.

With the Knicks loading up on PG's and players the Cavs would probably not want back in a trade and the Heat bringing in Lowry and losing some of those non-guaranteed contracts ... it's looking more and more like Collin is going to be around for awhile.

Otoh, the Cavs have been very quiet, so perhaps you should be worried. lol

Seriously, height isn't everything as even though Booker is 6'5 he's just as bad defensively as Sexton and needs to be hidden as well, which is why they put Rubio and then CP3 next to him. Sexton has slowly but steadily been improving his defense and his passing since he came into the league while also becoming a much better scorer. He's not a finished project yet, he's improved each year on his weaknesses and strengths. Granted improving his weaknesses has seemed to be more of the slow and steady progress in regards to defense/passing while his improvements on offense have improved at a faster rate. That might be due to how the various coaching staffs have tried to focus the roles of Garland and Sexton, not to mention the last of consistency in schemes/teammate's health which can affect how well defense and passing improve while offense doesn't really rely anything else than your own ability.

I think if the Cavs are healthy, we might see a strong offensive and defensive team like we saw to start the year that can be ridden through the entire season. I mean early on with everyone healthy even Sexton looked adequate defensively, but once everyone started going down it went to crap for everyone except Okoro/Allen really.

If the Cavs were winning games and Collin was driving the offense with his 25ppg, he'd be getting paid, but we're not ... so he we are trying not to overpay a player who at the moment causes a team more problems than he solves.

So, it's a little more like the Zach LaVine situation who still hasn't won anything after putting up amazing offensive numbers.

The Bulls are still all in on Zach hoping they can find the magic formula to build a winner around him and convince him to re-sign ... but there's another way to look at it. What if the TWolves and Bulls have just wasted 7 years and $88M trying to get something out of Zach that just isn't going to happen?

I mean if there's any confusion about this, I really do believe we (and the Cavs) got their answer when they tried shopping him. Other teams see the dilemma and aren't very interested in giving up much to take on the potential risks and rewards.

Would it help if Collin was 6'5" like Zach is? Absolutely ... Zach was a big part in the Jimmy Butler trade in addition to the pick that became Lauri Markennen. If we could have traded our pick next year plus Collin for a SG/SF in his prime at the level of Jimmy Butler, we certainly would have done it. That's exactly the kind of deal the Cavs want, but it's simply not there for Collin.

At least not now ...

The thing is, Sexton isn't why the Cavs aren't winning. Just like it's Booker wasn't the reason the Suns weren't winning his first 4 seasons (even though they had better rosters than Cleveland has had), and Lavine isn't why Chicago isn't winning.

I mean how is Sexton not like Booker if he's like Lavine? Literally Booker's first 4 seasons he put up amazing offensive numbers and the Suns sucked. Then they got a competent coach and actually ensure the roster was balanced around him.

Also it could help if Sexton was 6'5, but Mitchell is just fine at 6'1 as well. Granted Mitchell went into a great situation with a great defensive scheme/players behind him when he got there so even if he got beat there is someone there to help him out, sort of how the Cavs were playing to start the year before injuries.

Also if the Cavs could get a Butler type trade for Sexton, then yeah I can understand taking it. But trading him for something less than that is just dumb, which is what a lot of people are proposing for Sexton. Like seriously Tyler Herro? That's a trade that would blow up in their face before the ink even dried.

Also I don't think the Cavs really tried to shop Sexton.