Official Trade Thread - Part XLI

[badinage]

No Avdija in the deal, but yeah.

(Does anyone have any patience at all? It’s comical — everyone on here has been acculturated to acquire “assets” and prioritize picks. Well, what the he11 for? To ship their arse out after a year when they don’t show that they’re destined for superstardom?)

(The guy can play, and is going to improve. He’s already better than Porter Jr. was in his first two years, has good defensive numbers, good size, can handle, and had some good shooting games before he hit the rookie wall. Remember that game where he scored 12 or 14 points in like 5 min?)

[Ed Wood]

Markkanen's an interesting case study. On the one hand it's funny that the NBA's trend towards forwards with perimeter skills hasn't really benefited him despite his being a forward with perimeter skills. Everybody else is sort of doing what he does but weirdly their being like three inches shorter is sort of an asset because they tend to be more capable handling switch-heavy defensive schemes whereas Lauri's more genuinely a traditional big except that he's a pretty talented shooter.

He's also kind of emblematic of how much the value of young players is tied up in the investment of time and projected planning their teams put into them. Markkanen's been about as good as any of the younger players on the Wizards over time - a better offensive player than Rui for instance but a worse defender probably (in that he's definitely bad and Rui's trending sort of whatever in that regard, but even there honestly a more frank assessment might reasonably just peg both as bad). Despite that, because of the way Chicago has restructured and shifted its ambitions he's very fungible while our young guys very much aren't.

[payitforward]

I don't even want to entertain putting that pussy ass piece of soft baby **** whiny little brick layer Ben Simmons on this team.

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Is this really necessary gambitx777? What has Simmons done to deserve such ugliness from you?

Thanks, Zards. I was about to ask the same question -- well, in truth, I'd have been less circumspect than you.

[nate33]

Dinwiddie for Simmons? I think we can execute that trade in 90 days.

It's something to think about abstractly but I don't think there's any way you make this deal. Simmons is an interesting piece to consider but you really have to wonder where his head is. Any team that trades for Ben has to know 1) that he wants to be there and 2) that he's willing to work/improve his jumpshot. I'd be willing to give up assets for Simmons. I think a Dinwiddie/Beal/Simmons core could work because both Dinwiddie and Beal could play off-ball. But I think the better move is to plan for Embiid in 2 years. If something comes about that Simmons would be open to playing in DC then we'd have to look hard at it.

I'd send Hachimura and Avdija out for Simmons. Add some cap ballast like Kuzma and Harrell. Starting lineup would include Bertans and Simmons as forwards. I'd try to keep KCP and Kispert, too, for their shooting.

It would be expensive once Beal signs for 50 mil a year, but maybe worth it. It would also be a nice hedge to have Simmons and Dinwidde in case Beal leaves or gets traded.

This would be swinging for the fences, like Tommy said he wanted to do. There's some risk there, but there is pretty good upside.

Yes, but Philly wouldn't want Rui and Avdija. They'd want a ball-handling shot creator.

[Ruzious]

Maybe it's time to switch the target focus away from Simmons (who seems to prefer the west coast) to Christian Wood - who's an old man on that ridiculously young Houston roster - other than John Wall. The convenient thing about trading with Houston is we can give them value by unprotecting the 2023 pick we gave them in the Wall trade. They drafted Jalen Green and already had Porter at the 2. And they drafted international bigs Garuba and Sengun. They also drafted athletic swingman Josh Christopher - but I think he's a couple years away from contributing. They could use forwards, and we got forwards. And a guy like Bryant could appeal to them because he's younger than Wood and talented, and they could probably re-sign him rather easily. Seems like there's a trade there that could be made that'd help both teams.

[pcbothwel]

Ruz... OKC has our 2023 pick now.
Also, they are in a deep and drastic rebuild. Remember, they owe their 2024 & 2026 1st to OKC right now (Top 4 protected).

They have no intention of getting moderately better this year. I think they tank (Again) this year, and aim to make subtle improvements in 22/23 before making playoff runs in 23/24.
Its why they will probably move Wood, but probably want longer term pieces. Not sure anything other than Kispert/Deni/unprotected 1st gets their attention.

[Ruzious]

Ruz... OKC has our 2023 pick now.
Also, they are in a deep and drastic rebuild. Remember, they owe their 2024 & 2026 1st to OKC right now (Top 4 protected).

They have no intention of getting moderately better this year. I think they tank (Again) this year, and aim to make subtle improvements in 22/23 before making playoff runs in 23/24.
Its why they will probably move Wood, but probably want longer term pieces. Not sure anything other than Kispert/Deni/unprotected 1st gets their attention.

Right - thanks for the correction on OKC owning our 2023 pick. But the rest is what I meant. Obviously, Houston is in long-term rebuild mode, and when I said we have forwards to trade, I meant Rui, Deni, and Kispert as possible trade pieces - as well as Bryant. I would not include any future picks - if they'd insist on that, it'd be a deal breaker. Wood has good trade value - but not the trade value of a proven star. At 25, he hasn't done much.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Ben Simmons is also a point guard.

I'd play Simmons at the 5.

Just like Magic Johnson when the Lakers won their first championship.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Is anyone interested in Markanen?

Yes!

I had that thought yesterday and I just did not post. The Wizards have a lot of assets and Markenan might be a good player to try to trade Bertans.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Markkanen's an interesting case study. On the one hand it's funny that the NBA's trend towards forwards with perimeter skills hasn't really benefited him despite his being a forward with perimeter skills. Everybody else is sort of doing what he does but weirdly their being like three inches shorter is sort of an asset because they tend to be more capable handling switch-heavy defensive schemes whereas Lauri's more genuinely a traditional big except that he's a pretty talented shooter.

He's also kind of emblematic of how much the value of young players is tied up in the investment of time and projected planning their teams put into them. Markkanen's been about as good as any of the younger players on the Wizards over time - a better offensive player than Rui for instance but a worse defender probably (in that he's definitely bad and Rui's trending sort of whatever in that regard, but even there honestly a more frank assessment might reasonably just peg both as bad). Despite that, because of the way Chicago has restructured and shifted its ambitions he's very fungible while our young guys very much aren't.

Is Mark Hammond kind of similar to porzingis?

(Very interesting Google Translation but I think you know who I mean)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Maybe it's time to switch the target focus away from Simmons (who seems to prefer the west coast) to Christian Wood - who's an old man on that ridiculously young Houston roster - other than John Wall. The convenient thing about trading with Houston is we can give them value by unprotecting the 2023 pick we gave them in the Wall trade. They drafted Jalen Green and already had Porter at the 2. And they drafted international bigs Garuba and Sengun. They also drafted athletic swingman Josh Christopher - but I think he's a couple years away from contributing. They could use forwards, and we got forwards. And a guy like Bryant could appeal to them because he's younger than Wood and talented, and they could probably re-sign him rather easily. Seems like there's a trade there that could be made that'd help both teams.

Christian Wood might be flat better than Ben Simmons.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Ruz... OKC has our 2023 pick now.
Also, they are in a deep and drastic rebuild. Remember, they owe their 2024 & 2026 1st to OKC right now (Top 4 protected).

They have no intention of getting moderately better this year. I think they tank (Again) this year, and aim to make subtle improvements in 22/23 before making playoff runs in 23/24.
Its why they will probably move Wood, but probably want longer term pieces. Not sure anything other than Kispert/Deni/unprotected 1st gets their attention.

Then you do that trade Christian Wood is that power forward capable of getting more than 10 rebounds per 36 minutes.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/woodch01.html

Wood averages 22/10 per 36 and better than 36% from 3pt

SIMILARITY SCORES ...

Spoiler:

includes donatas motiejunas Don MacLean Kermit Washington Frank brickowski

Christian Wood is potentially a borderline superstar.

[Ed Wood]

Is Markkanen kind of similar to porzingis?

Broad strokes, sure. They're both enormous Europeans and notably good outside shooters who get dogged for being poor rebounders relative to what you'd expect given their size. Porzingis has shown an ability to shoulder an appreciably larger offensive load and significantly is actually a positive defensive player by some metrics, which is a pretty significant distinguishing virtue. I think Porzingis is probably a little underrated among medium/medium plus invested fans because he's mostly just viewed as fragile and overpaid and while he's both he is actually a valuable player. You probably don't want him for quite what he's making but you're not going to easily find the suite of skills and impacts he has under a rock.

As for Markkanen he'd be a fine guy to add - there's not a phenomenal case for preferring any of our forwards to him - but that's not a ringing endorsement and I don't know what a trade that'd free up the playing time and the cap space to do that looks like. Certainly I don't know how the Wizards would do that while maintaining parity in terms of the value involved - I don't want to commit value to moving one or more of our functional players for another player who's in the same neighborhood and who doesn't exactly give you schematic flexibility defensively.

[gambitx777]

I don't even want to entertain putting that pussy ass piece of soft baby **** whiny little brick layer Ben Simmons on this team.

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Is this really necessary gambitx777? What has Simmons done to deserve such ugliness from you?

Thanks, Zards. I was about to ask the same question -- well, in truth, I'd have been less circumspect than you.

Did I need to be that spicy, probably not. But I have my reasons for my opinion on him and im gonna stick to what I said but I can at least water it down next time a little.

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[penbeast0]

Ben Simmons is also a point guard.

I'd play Simmons at the 5.

Just like Magic Johnson when the Lakers won their first championship.

(a) First, a trivial point. The Lakers had won a number of championships before, with Mikan, with Wilt, etc. But when the Showtime Lakers won their first title is fair.

(b) I don't think I'd call Magic the center. Even without Kareem they were still starting Kurt Rambis who was a F/C type and Rambis was guarding Dawkins (the Sixers' offensive center) when Chocolate Thunder was in the game. They were just trying to hide Magic on Caldwell Jones defensively because by that point in his career, he wasn't scoring at all so that Rambis could wear himself out chasing high energy Bobby Jones while conserving Magic for offense.

(c) Magic offensively was playing the high passing post, again, not unknown for a center but also not unknown for a PG, Cousy did it in the 50s in one memorable playoff series (don't remember the year). But because he was shooting hook shots and Lakers fans were used to Kareem and the skyhook at center, it became popular wisdom.

[Dat2U]

Is this really necessary gambitx777? What has Simmons done to deserve such ugliness from you?

Thanks, Zards. I was about to ask the same question -- well, in truth, I'd have been less circumspect than you.

Did I need to be that spicy, probably not. But I have my reasons for my opinion on him and im gonna stick to what I said but I can at least water it down next time a little.

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I hope we trade for Simmons just to see your reaction.

And yes, I think it's sorta weird to have that much angst for an athlete.

[pcbothwel]

The two players I would have loved to add this team are Jarred Vanderbilt or Kyle Anderson. I think their skill set would be perfect at the forward spot, but alas.

[mhd]

Mavs fans on the trade board would do Powell for Bertans straight up (we save a significant chunk of change in the deal). That trade alleviates our forward crunch (while giving us a loaded center rotation).

[keynote]

Mavs fans on the trade board would do Powell for Bertans straight up (we save a significant chunk of change in the deal). That trade alleviates our forward crunch (while giving us a loaded center rotation).

Fourth center = "crunch," not "loaded" -- at least to me.

I'm not quite ready to treat Bertans as a salary dump. I'd rather let him show up (presumably in better shape) and rehab his trade value.

I'm also more interested in consolidation trades. But I don't know what two of our guys would fetch in return.

[gambitx777]

Mavs fans on the trade board would do Powell for Bertans straight up (we save a significant chunk of change in the deal). That trade alleviates our forward crunch (while giving us a loaded center rotation).

Fourth center = "crunch," not "loaded" -- at least to me.

I'm not quite ready to treat Bertans as a salary dump. I'd rather let him show up (presumably in better shape) and rehab his trade value.

I'm also more interested in consolidation trades. But I don't know what two of our guys would fetch in return.

I'm pretty ok trading him if we find a good deal to off load him that nets us assets aka young players or a pick, and helps our cap situation. We have kuzma who is bertans light and Todd who is raw as frozen chick cooked in the microwave, but he's in the mold of bertans. So I would be fine moving on from him because we have two much younger cheaper replacements.

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