WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering: Update Bulls forfeit 2nd Round Pick pg. 31

[Stratmaster]

Read articles/reports thoroughly, just a suggestion. The reasons for why Chicago/Miami are being investigated were pretty clear

How is it anymore clear that Miami and Chicago tampered?

A reputable national news outlet reported LeBron and AD met with Russ personally to recruit him. Why is that not being investigated but the Bulls and Miami signing Lonzo and Lowry so early in free agency is?

Don't get me wrong. I don't care at all that players and teams are talking to each other. But it's BS that the NBA singles out the Bucks last year, and now Miami and the Bulls, while LeBron is free to build superteams wherever he goes. It's BS.

Call it fair or don't call it at all.

NBA has stated that player can discuss with each other as much as they like. So LeBron, AD and Russ meeting is just that. Maybe it is because none of them have any right to sign contracts in the name of the team and thus making these meeting unofficial. When you add real team representative who has this right the meeting suddenly becomes official and thus fills the tampering rules.

Even thought Lebron is the secret GM of every team he is in, he really has no right to sign anything for that team.

I know this is just a technical difference, but it is meaningful one.

Personally I think these tampering rules are stupid. I understand those exists, but still stupid. But everyone knows those exists. They know what those are, so why do you inform the deal 1 minute after the time starts. It is as stupid as those rules.

This is my thinking also. Players can't tamper without the involvement of someone in the front office, because players have no contractual authority for the team.

Now if AKME told Lavine to go talk to Ball and tell him the Bulls will give him 85 mil that would be different... and stupid. Stupid enough to change my opinion of the new front office.

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[Stratmaster]

Read on Twitter

I know this is an old tweet but it makes me believe that a team actually complained about the Bulls and Heat.

Interesting that the Pelicans complained about that... and now someone has asked for the Pelicans deal to be investigated.

Retaliation?

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[jStuNNa]

Read articles/reports thoroughly, just a suggestion. The reasons for why Chicago/Miami are being investigated were pretty clear

How is it anymore clear that Miami and Chicago tampered?

A reputable national news outlet reported LeBron and AD met with Russ personally to recruit him. Why is that not being investigated but the Bulls and Miami signing Lonzo and Lowry so early in free agency is?

Don't get me wrong. I don't care at all that players and teams are talking to each other. But it's BS that the NBA singles out the Bucks last year, and now Miami and the Bulls, while LeBron is free to build superteams wherever he goes. It's BS.

Call it fair or don't call it at all.

NBA has stated that player can discuss with each other as much as they like. So LeBron, AD and Russ meeting is just that. Maybe it is because none of them have any right to sign contracts in the name of the team and thus making these meeting unofficial. When you add real team representative who has this right the meeting suddenly becomes official and thus fills the tampering rules.

Even thought Lebron is the secret GM of every team he is in, he really has no right to sign anything for that team.

I know this is just a technical difference, but it is meaningful one.

Personally I think these tampering rules are stupid. I understand those exists, but still stupid. But everyone knows those exists. They know what those are, so why do you inform the deal 1 minute after the time starts. It is as stupid as those rules.

League tampering rules apply to players as well. Draymond just got fined a couple years back for it.

[dougthonus]

How is it anymore clear that Miami and Chicago tampered?

A reputable national news outlet reported LeBron and AD met with Russ personally to recruit him. Why is that not being investigated but the Bulls and Miami signing Lonzo and Lowry so early in free agency is?

Don't get me wrong. I don't care at all that players and teams are talking to each other. But it's BS that the NBA singles out the Bucks last year, and now Miami and the Bulls, while LeBron is free to build superteams wherever he goes. It's BS.

Call it fair or don't call it at all.

NBA has stated that player can discuss with each other as much as they like. So LeBron, AD and Russ meeting is just that. Maybe it is because none of them have any right to sign contracts in the name of the team and thus making these meeting unofficial. When you add real team representative who has this right the meeting suddenly becomes official and thus fills the tampering rules.

Even thought Lebron is the secret GM of every team he is in, he really has no right to sign anything for that team.

I know this is just a technical difference, but it is meaningful one.

Personally I think these tampering rules are stupid. I understand those exists, but still stupid. But everyone knows those exists. They know what those are, so why do you inform the deal 1 minute after the time starts. It is as stupid as those rules.

League tampering rules apply to players as well. Draymond just got fined a couple years back for it.

As far as I know, the league only goes after players for public comments. They can't audit player communication or stop them from meeting so they don't make any attempt to do anything else.

[othawhitemeat]

If Bulls lise something outside of a fine on this, Im going to quit watching the NBA outside of if Ayo playing or Bulls in playoffs. Im just really sick of the pick and choose for the punishments. Silver is bad for the game and has been for a while. As many others have said, Lebron's friend is literally an agent in the league and has manufactured many deals to teams Lebron has been on with yhe start of forcing the complain or won't play for this team to only one team type trade with AD. If any deal shoyld have been voided, that would have put an end to this force a trade type crap such as Harden, Westbrick, Paul George, trying to in Simmons, etc... Im sure I left some others out. Silver needs to quit relying on Freaking Lebron. Lebron created the wjole superteam and then KD did it w Warriors and Nets and then Kawhi started following suit, etc...

So sick of this product other than Bucks winning it recently.

[chitowndish]

Should have known the Bulls landing FA was illegal. I searched the stories last year and it sounds like they opened the Milwaukee investigation Nov 19 2020 and announced the results December 21 2020 so I guess this is going to take a while. The fact that none of our moves are really finalized has me worried like if there is a cascading effect, if the penalty from the Ball trade impacts our ability to sign DD. I’d feel a lot better if they started to finalize some of these other moves.

[MrSparkle]

Kinda reminds me of NBA refereeing… “That wasn’t a foul (clothesline to head)… but THAT was a foul (touch).”

I’d like to know what our collection of long-experienced FO characters intentionally violated here, that every other team with an immediate FA offer didn’t.

Sato/Temple was a simple tweak of the deadline offer - just needed a few more bucks via Temple to work with the 85m. Overpaying Lonzo made no sense for Zion’s skillset. Ball camp expressed interest in Bulls, Knicks and Hornets.

But here you go: ultimate stupidity. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/24/sports/milwaukee-bucks-tampering-giannis.html Clearly some over-regulatory audits and policies were added to make it seem like the league is trying to prevent star stealing…

Yet somehow Lebron and Durant keep pulling off star heists to players under contract. Not just expiring, but fully guaranteed long-term deals. Somehow Anthony Davis was fully convinced that it was worth sabotaging his final season in NOP to work out a super trade to LAL, where there was clearly a plan to flesh out the farmed out roster.

I miss FIBA already. Just basketball without BS.

[DuckIII]

I can't see the deal being voided though. The player's union would throw a fit now that teams have used all their cap space.

The things is that as far as I know these rules are written in CBA to protect the players interest. So teams wont try to do quick agreements with teams and agents. For example, if it would have been publicly known that Bulls are offering 85M to Ball, other teams could have offered more, but now it looks like the agreement had been made before the deadline so there were no other offers. This would seriously hurt the interest of players.

That’s not why at all and it makes no sense. The origin reason for the rule is to protect small market teams from having their players enticed away. The CBA is structured in many ways to increase the leverage a team has to keep its own players. This is one of those rules.

Your rationale also makes no sense because said player always has the choice to not sign an early deal and fully explore all options. Nothing about this rule protects players because players can’t be forced to sign deals.

As an example, once Lonzo and his team confirm that 85 million is on the table they can shop it. It actually increases a player’s ability to get more money out of other teams because it sets a baseline in the market.

[DuckIII]

3.) That said, when you break the rules it's a childish reaction to be mad that you got caught and complain about how others have done it too.

I don’t agree with this at all. Not in this context. It’s never childish to point out a knowing and deliberate inequity.

This is not a situation in which the NBA is shocked to learn this is going on and then aggressively investigates every situation when there is a report. In this situation the NBA knows that every team does it, benefits from it, has its OWN NETWORK AND PARTNERS create television shows specifically to cover a scenario in which teams have to have been “tampering” in order for the immediate television coverage to have any meaning, and then selectively decides when to investigate in order to prop up the fiction that they actually care.

It’s not “childish” to complain about willful hypocrisy and fraud.

[dougthonus]

then selectively decides when to investigate in order to prop up the fiction that they actually care.

I'd wonder if the NBA selectively decides or if they decide when a team lodges a complaint. If it it is he second of those things, which seems a bit more likely to me, then there isn't really hypocrisy on the league's part.

Also, it seems they may investigate only S&Ts really, in which case, again, if they are consistent, don't be stupid if you are a FO.

Either way, the ways the rules are made/enforced feels out of touch with reality or purpose. The idea of not allowing people to entice away your players is good. Worrying about impending FAs doesn't seem to protect anyone.

[Clocian]

So even with this investigation taking place can all of trades(including lonzo) still go through whenever? Or is that **** gonna hold things up?

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[BeKuK]

I just hope this whole investigation does not take too much time.

Not that I expect the worst possible scenario, but the League could use it to make an example. And the bulls come at the right time with a presumably clear case.

[dougthonus]

So even with this investigation taking place can all of trades(including lonzo) still go through whenever? Or is that **** gonna hold things up?

I don't think we know for sure, but I doubt it would hold things up or be undone. It seems massively unlikely they would rescind anything that happened. It would completely screw over all the teams and the player involved because there is no money left for Lonzo to pursue.

It likely will result in a large fine and loss of draft picks if we are found guilty.

[SaNdMiRkS]

How is it anymore clear that Miami and Chicago tampered?

A reputable national news outlet reported LeBron and AD met with Russ personally to recruit him. Why is that not being investigated but the Bulls and Miami signing Lonzo and Lowry so early in free agency is?

Don't get me wrong. I don't care at all that players and teams are talking to each other. But it's BS that the NBA singles out the Bucks last year, and now Miami and the Bulls, while LeBron is free to build superteams wherever he goes. It's BS.

Call it fair or don't call it at all.

NBA has stated that player can discuss with each other as much as they like. So LeBron, AD and Russ meeting is just that. Maybe it is because none of them have any right to sign contracts in the name of the team and thus making these meeting unofficial. When you add real team representative who has this right the meeting suddenly becomes official and thus fills the tampering rules.

Even thought Lebron is the secret GM of every team he is in, he really has no right to sign anything for that team.

I know this is just a technical difference, but it is meaningful one.

Personally I think these tampering rules are stupid. I understand those exists, but still stupid. But everyone knows those exists. They know what those are, so why do you inform the deal 1 minute after the time starts. It is as stupid as those rules.

League tampering rules apply to players as well. Draymond just got fined a couple years back for it.

The lakers didnt do anything wrong with their current signing. Some peers talking isnt tampering, and DC didnt push for an investigation

Rich Paul was clearly having dialogue with Eversley or someone else within the Bulls brass, and that's what NOLA wants investigated

This is all NOLA, the Bensons do this almost every time a major star gets traded from their team

[Am2626]

Tell me they can’t reverse the trade

Let’s say they do. Does that mean that Lonzo can’t sign with the Bulls at all? If that’s the case wouldn’t it make sense to sign and trade for Lowry and the Heat do the same with Lonzo. Both guys play the same position and I believe the sign and trades were pretty similar for both deals.

[Darius Miles Davis]

Here’s a quote from KC Johnson’s latest mailbag, much like Woj was (maybe) hinting at yesterday, suggesting the NBA will intercede and change the compensation that the Bulls offer the Pelicans in this Ball deal:

But the sign-and-trade compensation could change, particularly in the case of the Bulls, who have yet to formally announce their acquisition of Ball

That’s different than the league stripping the Bulls of a pick from them and/or fining them. Has the league ever done that before? I’m aware of the Bogdanovic situation, and this is not that.


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[SaNdMiRkS]

Kinda reminds me of NBA refereeing… “That wasn’t a foul (clothesline to head)… but THAT was a foul (touch).”

I’d like to know what our collection of long-experienced FO characters intentionally violated here, that every other team with an immediate FA offer didn’t.

Sato/Temple was a simple tweak of the deadline offer - just needed a few more bucks via Temple to work with the 85m. Overpaying Lonzo made no sense for Zion’s skillset. Ball camp expressed interest in Bulls, Knicks and Hornets.

But here you go: ultimate stupidity. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/24/sports/milwaukee-bucks-tampering-giannis.html Clearly some over-regulatory audits and policies were added to make it seem like the league is trying to prevent star stealing…

Yet somehow Lebron and Durant keep pulling off star heists to players under contract. Not just expiring, but fully guaranteed long-term deals. Somehow Anthony Davis was fully convinced that it was worth sabotaging his final season in NOP to work out a super trade to LAL, where there was clearly a plan to flesh out the farmed out roster.

I miss FIBA already. Just basketball without BS.

NOLA wants the Ball trade investigated. If Houston pushed for an investigation with the recent Harden trade, then there would've been one. The NBA doesn't play favourites. The only time they clearly played favourites was during the 90s with Chicago/Michael, for obvious reasons

[jStuNNa]

NBA has stated that player can discuss with each other as much as they like. So LeBron, AD and Russ meeting is just that. Maybe it is because none of them have any right to sign contracts in the name of the team and thus making these meeting unofficial. When you add real team representative who has this right the meeting suddenly becomes official and thus fills the tampering rules.

Even thought Lebron is the secret GM of every team he is in, he really has no right to sign anything for that team.

I know this is just a technical difference, but it is meaningful one.

Personally I think these tampering rules are stupid. I understand those exists, but still stupid. But everyone knows those exists. They know what those are, so why do you inform the deal 1 minute after the time starts. It is as stupid as those rules.

League tampering rules apply to players as well. Draymond just got fined a couple years back for it.

As far as I know, the league only goes after players for public comments. They can't audit player communication or stop them from meeting so they don't make any attempt to do anything else.

Yeah, because they can't monitor their texts, phone calls, etc... That certainty makes sense. But again, when a nationally reputable news outlet reports such a meeting like this supposed one between LeBron, AD and Russ, the league doesn't even follow up on that?

I mean, if they're going to go as far as to take draft picks away from teams or levy huge fines against teams, they should at least be making an attempt to look into that report... If they're really serious about these "tampering rules."

These rules are ridiculous though, which is why it's even more ridiculous to do any of these investigations. Let teams talk. Let players talk. The NBA and owners never should have went down this path as a solution to tampering.

[Stratmaster]

Kinda reminds me of NBA refereeing… “That wasn’t a foul (clothesline to head)… but THAT was a foul (touch).”

I’d like to know what our collection of long-experienced FO characters intentionally violated here, that every other team with an immediate FA offer didn’t.

Sato/Temple was a simple tweak of the deadline offer - just needed a few more bucks via Temple to work with the 85m. Overpaying Lonzo made no sense for Zion’s skillset. Ball camp expressed interest in Bulls, Knicks and Hornets.

But here you go: ultimate stupidity. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/24/sports/milwaukee-bucks-tampering-giannis.html Clearly some over-regulatory audits and policies were added to make it seem like the league is trying to prevent star stealing…

Yet somehow Lebron and Durant keep pulling off star heists to players under contract. Not just expiring, but fully guaranteed long-term deals. Somehow Anthony Davis was fully convinced that it was worth sabotaging his final season in NOP to work out a super trade to LAL, where there was clearly a plan to flesh out the farmed out roster.

I miss FIBA already. Just basketball without BS.

NOLA wants the Ball trade investigated. If Houston pushed for an investigation with the recent Harden trade, then there would've been one. The NBA doesn't play favourites. The only time they clearly played favourites was during the 90s with Chicago/Michael, for obvious reasons

But... NOLA had to have agreed to the compensation... or the reporting was just rumors.

If they agreed, why the hell would they want their own sign and trade investigated?

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[Darius Miles Davis]

Kinda reminds me of NBA refereeing… “That wasn’t a foul (clothesline to head)… but THAT was a foul (touch).”

I’d like to know what our collection of long-experienced FO characters intentionally violated here, that every other team with an immediate FA offer didn’t.

Sato/Temple was a simple tweak of the deadline offer - just needed a few more bucks via Temple to work with the 85m. Overpaying Lonzo made no sense for Zion’s skillset. Ball camp expressed interest in Bulls, Knicks and Hornets.

But here you go: ultimate stupidity. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/24/sports/milwaukee-bucks-tampering-giannis.html Clearly some over-regulatory audits and policies were added to make it seem like the league is trying to prevent star stealing…

Yet somehow Lebron and Durant keep pulling off star heists to players under contract. Not just expiring, but fully guaranteed long-term deals. Somehow Anthony Davis was fully convinced that it was worth sabotaging his final season in NOP to work out a super trade to LAL, where there was clearly a plan to flesh out the farmed out roster.

I miss FIBA already. Just basketball without BS.

NOLA wants the Ball trade investigated. If Houston pushed for an investigation with the recent Harden trade, then there would've been one. The NBA doesn't play favourites. The only time they clearly played favourites was during the 90s with Chicago/Michael, for obvious reasons

But... NOLA had to have agreed to the compensation... or the reporting was just rumors.

If they agreed, why the hell would they want their own sign and trade investigated?

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I agree with this. New Orleans clearly agreed to this S&T. At some level, they must be complicit as well if this got settled too early. So I doubt they are the party pushing an investigation.


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