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Official Trade Thread - Part XLI

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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1701 » by nate33 » Sat Aug 7, 2021 10:32 pm

mhd wrote:Mavs fans on the trade board would do Powell for Bertans straight up (we save a significant chunk of change in the deal). That trade alleviates our forward crunch (while giving us a loaded center rotation).

Terrible idea. Powell wouldn't play at all for us, and he is still owed $12M a year over the next 2 years.

If that's the best we can do in a Bertans dump, I'd much rather play him and try and rehabilitate his trade value. There isn't a particularly compelling reason to dump salary now anyhow. Sure, I'd like Mathews back, but since we renounced his QO, we don't have any advantage in resigning him.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1702 » by mhd » Sat Aug 7, 2021 10:37 pm

nate33 wrote:
mhd wrote:Mavs fans on the trade board would do Powell for Bertans straight up (we save a significant chunk of change in the deal). That trade alleviates our forward crunch (while giving us a loaded center rotation).

Terrible idea. Powell wouldn't play at all for us, and he is still owed $12M a year over the next 2 years.

If that's the best we can do in a Bertans dump, I'd much rather play him and try and rehabilitate his trade value. There isn't a particularly compelling reason to dump salary now anyhow. Sure, I'd like Mathews back, but since we renounced his QO, we don't have any advantage in resigning him.



We'd shave 2 years off of Bertans' contract. Its purely a money play. Maybe we could go replenish some 2nds in the deal?
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1703 » by nate33 » Sat Aug 7, 2021 11:15 pm

mhd wrote:
nate33 wrote:
mhd wrote:Mavs fans on the trade board would do Powell for Bertans straight up (we save a significant chunk of change in the deal). That trade alleviates our forward crunch (while giving us a loaded center rotation).

Terrible idea. Powell wouldn't play at all for us, and he is still owed $12M a year over the next 2 years.

If that's the best we can do in a Bertans dump, I'd much rather play him and try and rehabilitate his trade value. There isn't a particularly compelling reason to dump salary now anyhow. Sure, I'd like Mathews back, but since we renounced his QO, we don't have any advantage in resigning him.



We'd shave 2 years off of Bertans' contract. Its purely a money play. Maybe we could go replenish some 2nds in the deal?

I'd be willing to bet we can do better at some point in the future.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1704 » by doclinkin » Sat Aug 7, 2021 11:53 pm

keynote wrote:
mhd wrote:Mavs fans on the trade board would do Powell for Bertans straight up (we save a significant chunk of change in the deal). That trade alleviates our forward crunch (while giving us a loaded center rotation).
Fourth center = "crunch," not "loaded" -- at least to me.

I'm not quite ready to treat Bertans as a salary dump. I'd rather let him show up (presumably in better shape) and rehab his trade value.

I'm also more interested in consolidation trades. But I don't know what two of our guys would fetch in return.


I think Bertans was embarrassed about showing up out of shape post pandemic. This summer we won't have that problem since he has been training with the Latvian team for a FIBA World Cup run. If not bulked up, he looks stronger, and for sure does not have the barrel belly he showed up with after last offseason.

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An in-shape Davis, with a bit more strength would likely show enough that not only would other teams ask around, but may prove to the team too valuable to sell unless a particularly sweet deal showed up.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1705 » by CntOutSmrtCrazy » Sun Aug 8, 2021 12:05 am

I wouldn’t dump Bertans for pennies on the dollar. As Nate said, we should try to rehab his trade value or let him have a chance in an actual system under Unseld.

I think something that is really overlooked, besides him obviously coming in out of shape after corona and the birth of his kid, is Brooks absolutely showed no discipline in how Bertans was used. He had a complete green light like he was Steph Curry to throw up any three ball he wanted to. I mentioned this during the season, and thought it really hurt his performance in certain games. I get that he’s a great shooter and you want to maximize his minutes on the court, but the shots that he was allowed to take, outside the flow of the offense (not that we really had one) was often a bad strategy. I’d like to see him get some burn under Unseld’s system, maybe he may yet to really surprise us.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1706 » by payitforward » Sun Aug 8, 2021 12:55 am

Thing is, "good" Davis Bertans -- the guy on our team in 2019-20 -- wasn't worth the deal he got to re-sign.

Most of the hopeful thinking about Bertans -- like the hopeful thinking about Kuzma, like the hopeful thinking about Aaron Holiday, like the hopeful thinking about Isaiah Todd's short-term future -- is just the vibration of fans' hopes in the idle off-season air.

Maybe some of it will come true -- anything can happen. So far the big achievements of the off season have been 1) completing the process of turning John Wall's "untradable" salary into assets that can be moved & 2) signing Spencer Dinwiddie.

We're still a rebuilding team that's afraid to rebuild -- that's my fear at least.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1707 » by TGW » Sun Aug 8, 2021 12:56 am

Get Bertrans the F outta here. He is a bum.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1708 » by WallToWall » Sun Aug 8, 2021 1:57 am

TGW wrote:Get Bertrans the F outta here. He is a bum.

That’s harsh. It’s looking like our new coach wants 3 and D players, if what Tommy says bears any relevance. We need the likes of Bertans on the team.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1709 » by Dat2U » Sun Aug 8, 2021 2:15 am

payitforward wrote:Thing is, "good" Davis Bertans -- the guy on our team in 2019-20 -- wasn't worth the deal he got to re-sign.

Most of the hopeful thinking about Bertans -- like the hopeful thinking about Kuzma, like the hopeful thinking about Aaron Holiday, like the hopeful thinking about Isaiah Todd's short-term future -- is just the vibration of fans' hopes in the idle off-season air.

Maybe some of it will come true -- anything can happen. So far the big achievements of the off season have been 1) completing the process of turning John Wall's "untradable" salary into assets that can be moved & 2) signing Spencer Dinwiddie.

We're still a rebuilding team that's afraid to rebuild -- that's my fear at least.


The cynic in me says we were able to dump Wall coming off an ACL tear to sign Dinwiddie with two previous ACL tears! :D

Of course we were able to add depth at positions where we didn't need to add depth at with the Xtra $$$ saved so that's a bonus I guess.

But no one can call Shepp lazy. In two years he completely flipped over a roster with a limited upside to create a slightly younger roster with a limited upside. Not sure what the results will be long term but we certainly got an active GM.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1710 » by nate33 » Sun Aug 8, 2021 2:21 am

CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:I think something that is really overlooked, besides him obviously coming in out of shape after corona and the birth of his kid, is Brooks absolutely showed no discipline in how Bertans was used. He had a complete green light like he was Steph Curry to throw up any three ball he wanted to. I mentioned this during the season, and thought it really hurt his performance in certain games. I get that he’s a great shooter and you want to maximize his minutes on the court, but the shots that he was allowed to take, outside the flow of the offense (not that we really had one) was often a bad strategy. I’d like to see him get some burn under Unseld’s system, maybe he may yet to really surprise us.

The guy had a TS% of .620 with virtually no turnovers. I hope he shoots even more this year.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1711 » by NatP4 » Sun Aug 8, 2021 2:33 am

nate33 wrote:
CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:I think something that is really overlooked, besides him obviously coming in out of shape after corona and the birth of his kid, is Brooks absolutely showed no discipline in how Bertans was used. He had a complete green light like he was Steph Curry to throw up any three ball he wanted to. I mentioned this during the season, and thought it really hurt his performance in certain games. I get that he’s a great shooter and you want to maximize his minutes on the court, but the shots that he was allowed to take, outside the flow of the offense (not that we really had one) was often a bad strategy. I’d like to see him get some burn under Unseld’s system, maybe he may yet to really surprise us.

The guy had a TS% of .620 with virtually no turnovers. I hope he shoots even more this year.


Any time Bertans shoots, it’s a good thing.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1712 » by NatP4 » Sun Aug 8, 2021 2:34 am

TGW wrote:Get Bertrans the F outta here. He is a bum.


He led the team in On/Off differential.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1713 » by CntOutSmrtCrazy » Sun Aug 8, 2021 2:37 am

nate33 wrote:
CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:I think something that is really overlooked, besides him obviously coming in out of shape after corona and the birth of his kid, is Brooks absolutely showed no discipline in how Bertans was used. He had a complete green light like he was Steph Curry to throw up any three ball he wanted to. I mentioned this during the season, and thought it really hurt his performance in certain games. I get that he’s a great shooter and you want to maximize his minutes on the court, but the shots that he was allowed to take, outside the flow of the offense (not that we really had one) was often a bad strategy. I’d like to see him get some burn under Unseld’s system, maybe he may yet to really surprise us.

The guy had a TS% of .620 with virtually no turnovers. I hope he shoots even more this year.


I don’t have issue with him shooting, but sometimes a bad shot is a bad shot no matter how good you may be at it at other times. I think Brooks had a tendency to let certain players get away with it way too often, just another reason why our offense sucked despite gaudy counting statistics. It is possible to give certain players the green light while also expecting some management of that privilege, you can have it both ways if there is some discipline instilled.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1714 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Aug 8, 2021 6:00 am

Dat2U wrote:
payitforward wrote:Thing is, "good" Davis Bertans -- the guy on our team in 2019-20 -- wasn't worth the deal he got to re-sign.

Most of the hopeful thinking about Bertans -- like the hopeful thinking about Kuzma, like the hopeful thinking about Aaron Holiday, like the hopeful thinking about Isaiah Todd's short-term future -- is just the vibration of fans' hopes in the idle off-season air.

Maybe some of it will come true -- anything can happen. So far the big achievements of the off season have been 1) completing the process of turning John Wall's "untradable" salary into assets that can be moved & 2) signing Spencer Dinwiddie.

We're still a rebuilding team that's afraid to rebuild -- that's my fear at least.


The cynic in me says we were able to dump Wall coming off an ACL tear to sign Dinwiddie with two previous ACL tears! :D

Of course we were able to add depth at positions where we didn't need to add depth at with the Xtra $$$ saved so that's a bonus I guess.

But no one can call Shepp lazy. In two years he completely flipped over a roster with a limited upside to create a slightly younger roster with a limited upside. Not sure what the results will be long term but we certainly got an active GM.


By the numbers, we have three elite finishers in Gafford, Harrell, and Bryant. Thomas has great range on his shot. All three are athletic.

We drafted a player dubbed the best shooter in the draft.

Davis Bertans, like Joe Harris, shot over 40% on 3PT shots the entire regular season. He was both injured and out of shape last season.

Aaron Holiday is a good defender with a chance to have a bounce back year.

Spencer Dinwiddie has led a team to a playoff drive. He can drive or he can pull up. He’s a go to scorer.

Kuzma can finish. He can slash . He has a really effective three point shot.

The last three players I mentioned are all young relative to Beal. Each one is conceivably headed for a break out season.

Time will tell.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1715 » by doclinkin » Sun Aug 8, 2021 1:29 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
The last three players I mentioned are all young relative to Beal. Each one is conceivably headed for a break out season.



That is what is interesting about this method of team-building to me. Distinct from GMEG who would assemble rosters of players in their contract year, and bank on them giving major effort trying to earn their next contract, Tommy seems like he is trying to get sneaky good value on players that he has scouted extensively who he thinks has hidden upside. He is buying low on players that are young enough that they may be maturing into their breakout years. Many players come into the league with a ton of talent and struggle to put it together, whether due to maturity issues, or learning curve, or roster construction. Many of them break out on their 2nd contract or with their next team. Tommy looks like he is trying to make our team that Next Team. The one that steals guys who break out.

I recall hunting for diamonds in the rough by looking for players who have shown upside in their by-the-minutes numbers but who are playing out of position or behind an all-star.

Check Kyle Kuzma. Line-ups. Sort by points. Notice, the lines he scores better are when playing with Antonio Davis out of the game. Makes sense, Davis an all-star, is going to soak up a ton of possessions. But waitaminute, these are per100 numbers. They are measuring the +/- of the team vs the opponent, not Kuzma's on/off numbers or whether he scores better or worse depending on personnel. In line-ups where Kuzma was on court with only one other forward, he played well, and the team played well, even when LeBJ was off the court. (I especially like that his best 3 man line-ups are all next to Montrezl).

If you look at his personal numbers, when Davis was added, Kuzma's overall numbers took a hit, but after a wobble they look to be trending back up, and his production #'s take a jump when he is playing at the position he knows, at PF. Good thing too, as his numbers took a hit offensively, he began playing better defense over the years. His rebounding numbers were pretty solid last year.

Gafford. Holiday. Hutchinson though he is gone. Dinwiddie has value that naturally is not as good as Harden or Kyrie, but still, solid if he is healthy. All of our team is pretty much either at their prime and the same age as Beal (KCP, Bertans, Dwiddie, Neto, Gil, Trez, all are ~28) or younger with upside, entering those breakout years.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1716 » by TGW » Sun Aug 8, 2021 2:54 pm

Dat2U wrote:
payitforward wrote:Thing is, "good" Davis Bertans -- the guy on our team in 2019-20 -- wasn't worth the deal he got to re-sign.

Most of the hopeful thinking about Bertans -- like the hopeful thinking about Kuzma, like the hopeful thinking about Aaron Holiday, like the hopeful thinking about Isaiah Todd's short-term future -- is just the vibration of fans' hopes in the idle off-season air.

Maybe some of it will come true -- anything can happen. So far the big achievements of the off season have been 1) completing the process of turning John Wall's "untradable" salary into assets that can be moved & 2) signing Spencer Dinwiddie.

We're still a rebuilding team that's afraid to rebuild -- that's my fear at least.


The cynic in me says we were able to dump Wall coming off an ACL tear to sign Dinwiddie with two previous ACL tears! :D

Of course we were able to add depth at positions where we didn't need to add depth at with the Xtra $$$ saved so that's a bonus I guess.

But no one can call Shepp lazy. In two years he completely flipped over a roster with a limited upside to create a slightly younger roster with a limited upside. Not sure what the results will be long term but we certainly got an active GM.


Lol I thought I was the only one to notice this. This dude Sheppard made Dinwiddie “a priority” when no one else did. Looking at SD’s career numbers and I am still confused at to why he was made a priority. He was an average player before the acl tears, and more than likely he’ll continue to be average if they’re lucky. You have to wonder if the ultimate goal of this front office was to win a championship or to get rid of wall’s contract.

I have zero faith in Sheppard. Zero.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1717 » by DCZards » Sun Aug 8, 2021 3:15 pm

TGW wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
payitforward wrote:Thing is, "good" Davis Bertans -- the guy on our team in 2019-20 -- wasn't worth the deal he got to re-sign.

Most of the hopeful thinking about Bertans -- like the hopeful thinking about Kuzma, like the hopeful thinking about Aaron Holiday, like the hopeful thinking about Isaiah Todd's short-term future -- is just the vibration of fans' hopes in the idle off-season air.

Maybe some of it will come true -- anything can happen. So far the big achievements of the off season have been 1) completing the process of turning John Wall's "untradable" salary into assets that can be moved & 2) signing Spencer Dinwiddie.

We're still a rebuilding team that's afraid to rebuild -- that's my fear at least.


The cynic in me says we were able to dump Wall coming off an ACL tear to sign Dinwiddie with two previous ACL tears! :D

Of course we were able to add depth at positions where we didn't need to add depth at with the Xtra $$$ saved so that's a bonus I guess.

But no one can call Shepp lazy. In two years he completely flipped over a roster with a limited upside to create a slightly younger roster with a limited upside. Not sure what the results will be long term but we certainly got an active GM.


Lol I thought I was the only one to notice this. This dude Sheppard made Dinwiddie “a priority” when no one else did. Looking at SD’s career numbers and I am still confused at to why he was made a priority. He was an average player before the acl tears, and more than likely he’ll continue to be average if they’re lucky. You have to wonder if the ultimate goal of this front office was to win a championship or to get rid of wall’s contract.

I have zero faith in Sheppard. Zero.

We really don't know what, if any, other teams had Dinwiddie on their radar screen. What we do know is that Spencer was typically ranked as one of the top free agents.

What we also know is that Tommy has done a great job turning this team over in the last 2-3 years. To the point that it now has young guys worth developing, a young vet or two with the potential to have a breakout season, and far more depth than the Zards have had in 10+ plus years.

Advantage TS.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1718 » by Ruzious » Sun Aug 8, 2021 3:41 pm

CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:
nate33 wrote:
CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:I think something that is really overlooked, besides him obviously coming in out of shape after corona and the birth of his kid, is Brooks absolutely showed no discipline in how Bertans was used. He had a complete green light like he was Steph Curry to throw up any three ball he wanted to. I mentioned this during the season, and thought it really hurt his performance in certain games. I get that he’s a great shooter and you want to maximize his minutes on the court, but the shots that he was allowed to take, outside the flow of the offense (not that we really had one) was often a bad strategy. I’d like to see him get some burn under Unseld’s system, maybe he may yet to really surprise us.

The guy had a TS% of .620 with virtually no turnovers. I hope he shoots even more this year.


I don’t have issue with him shooting, but sometimes a bad shot is a bad shot no matter how good you may be at it at other times. I think Brooks had a tendency to let certain players get away with it way too often, just another reason why our offense sucked despite gaudy counting statistics. It is possible to give certain players the green light while also expecting some management of that privilege, you can have it both ways if there is some discipline instilled.

The real problem with Bertans isn't that he's not good; it's that they probably won't have minutes to play him while they pay him. There are 96 minutes to go around at the forwards. With no trades, Rui probably gets 30 plus, and Kuzma probably gets 30. It sounds like they're making a commitment to develop Deni, so say he gets at least 20. That's already 80 plus of the 96. Kispert's the first rounder, so he likely gets 15. That's it - before ya get anything for Bertans, and ya gotta figure they'll want KCP to get some minutes at forward. They need to make a consolidating trade to make the minutes work - or get some injuries.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1719 » by TGW » Sun Aug 8, 2021 3:42 pm

We don’t know anything other than he’s built a team that can’t win more than 50% of its games.

But continue with your kool aid.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLI 

Post#1720 » by dckingsfan » Sun Aug 8, 2021 3:57 pm

Ruzious wrote:
CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:
nate33 wrote:The guy had a TS% of .620 with virtually no turnovers. I hope he shoots even more this year.

I don’t have issue with him shooting, but sometimes a bad shot is a bad shot no matter how good you may be at it at other times. I think Brooks had a tendency to let certain players get away with it way too often, just another reason why our offense sucked despite gaudy counting statistics. It is possible to give certain players the green light while also expecting some management of that privilege, you can have it both ways if there is some discipline instilled.

The real problem with Bertans isn't that he's not good; it's that they probably won't have minutes to play him while they pay him. There are 96 minutes to go around at the forwards. With no trades, Rui probably gets 30 plus, and Kuzma probably gets 30. It sounds like they're making a commitment to develop Deni, so say he gets at least 20. That's already 80 plus of the 96. Kispert's the first rounder, so he likely gets 15. That's it - before ya get anything for Bertans, and ya gotta figure they'll want KCP to get some minutes at forward. They need to make a consolidating trade to make the minutes work - or get some injuries.

The only saving grace (with regards to minutes allocation) they have at the begging of the season is that they can put Avidja on a minutes restriction. I guess at C the same with Bryant. Same with Dinwiddie?

But I guess this is going to go across the spectra except at SG. Holiday vs. Neto; you outlined the forward issue at C: Gafford, Bryant & Harrell.

Going to be interesting...

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