WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering: Update Bulls forfeit 2nd Round Pick pg. 31

[fleet]

What a kick in the balls

[Betta Bulleavit]

Why would you do this seconds after free agency started? Why you couldn't have waited just 30 minutes. Not too smart if you ask me.

Who’s to say that the Bulls (or even the Pelicans) ok’d that?

[Chi town]

Shams’ tweet announcing the Lonzo deal has a time stamp of 5:00 pm. The next tweet announcing a player changing teams was about the Lowry deal, with a time stamp of 5:38 pm. The next one after that was the McDermott deal at 5:43 pm.

The timeline is incredibly damning. The Bulls are going to get a big time penalty. It was really a stupid move by our FO. There was no need to do it this way. Have the calls sealing the deal after 5 pm and announce the deal at 5:45 pm. How hard is that?

To be fair, we don't know if it came from us. It could have come from Ball's camp. Still, we could/should have used KC to say that nothing has happened yet, and we're still negotiating with Ball.

It also didn't help that a day or two before free-agency started we kept getting alerts that Ball was planning on signing with Chicago.

Why would AK let the league know what he is paying Lonzo. This looks to be all agents pushing to show future clients how they create the market for their clients. AK gets nothing out of sharing that early.

Also couple days before FA opened it was said 4/80. The deal ended up being 4/85.

[HomoSapien]

Also couple days before FA opened it was said 4/80. The deal ended up being 4/85.

That part is irrelevant. The issue is that we're not allowed to talk to Ball period until we're allowed to speak to him.

Lavar is a self-promoter and loves to talk. There's a good chance he's the source.

[waffle]

Shams’ tweet announcing the Lonzo deal has a time stamp of 5:00 pm. The next tweet announcing a player changing teams was about the Lowry deal, with a time stamp of 5:38 pm. The next one after that was the McDermott deal at 5:43 pm.

The timeline is incredibly damning. The Bulls are going to get a big time penalty. It was really a stupid move by our FO. There was no need to do it this way. Have the calls sealing the deal after 5 pm and announce the deal at 5:45 pm. How hard is that?

I don’t think there is any doubt that the deal was done ahead of the opening of FA. That’s not a question. The question is, does that mean that tampering actually occurred? Negotiating and agreeing to a deal ahead of free agency WITH THE PELICANS is legal as far as I know…just as long as we didn’t have direct contact with Lonzo. Shams reporting at 5 on the head just means that somebody from Klutch tipped him off to the fact that a deal had been agreed upon.

are you not actually allowed to DISCUSS the specifics of trades ahead of time? If not why the freak not? That's lunacy!

[Chi town]

Also couple days before FA opened it was said 4/80. The deal ended up being 4/85.

That part is irrelevant. The issue is that we're not allowed to talk to Ball period until we're allowed to speak to him.

Lavar is a self-promoter and loves to talk. There's a good chance he's the source.

The whistleblower to the league? That wouldn't help him at all.

if you are saying he was talking to much to shams then I'd agree. Man doesn't stop talking.

[Betta Bulleavit]

Also couple days before FA opened it was said 4/80. The deal ended up being 4/85.

That part is irrelevant. The issue is that we're not allowed to talk to Ball period until we're allowed to speak to him.

Lavar is a self-promoter and loves to talk. There's a good chance he's the source.

First, knowing the numbers doesn’t mean that WE talked to Lonzo. Couldn’t it be that the Pelicans were doing the talking?

Secondly, let’s not start with throwing Lavar under the bus here. There is no indication at this point that he’s got anything to do with this.

[HomoSapien]

Also couple days before FA opened it was said 4/80. The deal ended up being 4/85.

That part is irrelevant. The issue is that we're not allowed to talk to Ball period until we're allowed to speak to him.

Lavar is a self-promoter and loves to talk. There's a good chance he's the source.

The whistleblower to the league? That wouldn't help him at all.

if you are saying he was talking to much to shams then I'd agree. Man doesn't stop talking.

Yeah, I just mean talking to Shams.

[Red8911]

Shams’ tweet announcing the Lonzo deal has a time stamp of 5:00 pm. The next tweet announcing a player changing teams was about the Lowry deal, with a time stamp of 5:38 pm. The next one after that was the McDermott deal at 5:43 pm.

The timeline is incredibly damning. The Bulls are going to get a big time penalty. It was really a stupid move by our FO. There was no need to do it this way. Have the calls sealing the deal after 5 pm and announce the deal at 5:45 pm. How hard is that?

Shams probably fkd up and reported it too early. Not sure how it works with these reporters but I’m guessing the bulls gave him the trade news from earlier and shams reported it once free agency began.

[Betta Bulleavit]

Shams’ tweet announcing the Lonzo deal has a time stamp of 5:00 pm. The next tweet announcing a player changing teams was about the Lowry deal, with a time stamp of 5:38 pm. The next one after that was the McDermott deal at 5:43 pm.

The timeline is incredibly damning. The Bulls are going to get a big time penalty. It was really a stupid move by our FO. There was no need to do it this way. Have the calls sealing the deal after 5 pm and announce the deal at 5:45 pm. How hard is that?

I don’t think there is any doubt that the deal was done ahead of the opening of FA. That’s not a question. The question is, does that mean that tampering actually occurred? Negotiating and agreeing to a deal ahead of free agency WITH THE PELICANS is legal as far as I know…just as long as we didn’t have direct contact with Lonzo. Shams reporting at 5 on the head just means that somebody from Klutch tipped him off to the fact that a deal had been agreed upon.

are you not actually allowed to DISCUSS the specifics of trades ahead of time? If not why the freak not? That's lunacy!

That’s just it. I’ve never known discussions among a potential team and the incumbent team to be illegal. Just as long as the potential team isn’t communicating with the player or his reps directly. The incumbent team can talk to them all they want. They just can’t actually sign the player until free agency starts.

[HomoSapien]

Also couple days before FA opened it was said 4/80. The deal ended up being 4/85.

That part is irrelevant. The issue is that we're not allowed to talk to Ball period until we're allowed to speak to him.

Lavar is a self-promoter and loves to talk. There's a good chance he's the source.

First, knowing the numbers doesn’t mean that WE talked to Lonzo. Couldn’t it be that the Pelicans were doing the talking?

Secondly, let’s not start with throwing Lavar under the bus here. There is no indication at this point that he’s got anything to do with this.

Regarding the first part, I don't think we can talk to Ball through the Pelicans. That seems like it'd be circumventing the rules.

I don't see the point of pretending like we didn't violate the rules here. There's just no possible explanation for how an $85/m deal could be agreed upon by Ball, sorted out with Temple, agreed to by the Pelicans, and then reported by Shams all in the opening minutes of free agency. We tampered. Now the question is whether or not the league can prove it to a degree that's satisfying to their standards and if so how severe the punishment is. The fact that we're already getting hints that it's going to be severe leads me to believe that the league has some pretty damning evidence.

As for Ball, he's a public figure so he's not off-limits here. I also don't think I'm exactly throwing him under the bus. It's a message board and we're all speculating here.

[HomoSapien]

Read on Twitter

So wait, is NO in trouble here too or just us?

Sorry if that's explained in the video, I can't watch it at the moment.

[Betta Bulleavit]

That part is irrelevant. The issue is that we're not allowed to talk to Ball period until we're allowed to speak to him.

Lavar is a self-promoter and loves to talk. There's a good chance he's the source.

First, knowing the numbers doesn’t mean that WE talked to Lonzo. Couldn’t it be that the Pelicans were doing the talking?

Secondly, let’s not start with throwing Lavar under the bus here. There is no indication at this point that he’s got anything to do with this.

Regarding the first part, I don't think we can talk to Ball through the Pelicans. That seems like it'd be circumventing the rules.

I don't see the point of pretending like we didn't violate the rules here. There's just no possible explanation for how an $85/m deal could be agreed upon by Ball, sorted out with Temple, agreed to by the Pelicans, and then reported by Shams all in the opening minutes of free agency. We tampered. Now the question is whether or not the league can prove it to a degree that's satisfying to their standards and if so how severe the punishment is. The fact that we're already getting hints that it's going to be severe leads me to believe that the league has some pretty damning evidence.

As for Ball, he's a public figure so he's not off-limits here. I also don't think I'm exactly throwing him under the bus. It's a message board and we're all speculating here.

If having conversations with a team regarding their RFA and working out the framework of a deal is tampering, then yes. You’re correct. However, I’ve never known that a team communicating with their own player about a deal that is about to happen constitutes tampering. I think that it’s very possible that Lonzo (and Klutch) knew what the deal would be ahead of time (obviously because he’d have to agree to it) and that information was communicated to him by way of the Pelicans. If that’s what happened, then it wouldn’t be tampering. Again…that’s my understanding.

[bad knees]

That part is irrelevant. The issue is that we're not allowed to talk to Ball period until we're allowed to speak to him.

Lavar is a self-promoter and loves to talk. There's a good chance he's the source.

First, knowing the numbers doesn’t mean that WE talked to Lonzo. Couldn’t it be that the Pelicans were doing the talking?

Secondly, let’s not start with throwing Lavar under the bus here. There is no indication at this point that he’s got anything to do with this.

Regarding the first part, I don't think we can talk to Ball through the Pelicans. That seems like it'd be circumventing the rules.

I don't see the point of pretending like we didn't violate the rules here. There's just no possible explanation for how an $85/m deal could be agreed upon by Ball, sorted out with Temple, agreed to by the Pelicans, and then reported by Shams all in the opening minutes of free agency. We tampered. Now the question is whether or not the league can prove it to a degree that's satisfying to their standards and if so how severe the punishment is. The fact that we're already getting hints that it's going to be severe leads me to believe that the league has some pretty damning evidence.

As for Ball, he's a public figure so he's not off-limits here. I also don't think I'm exactly throwing him under the bus. It's a message board and we're all speculating here.

Agreed. The Bulls and Pels can talk trade whenever they want. But the Bulls cannot negotiate a contract with Lonzo until after 5 pm, either directly or indirectly. The Bulls certainly cannot use the Pels to negotiate with Lonzo because that would create a hole in the tampering rules big enough to render them irrelevant.

Usually the tampering occurs but there are no sanctions because it cannot be proven. Here, we have Shams' tweet at 5:00 pm detailing the one part of the deal that could not be discussed until after 5:00 pm - the terms of Lonzo's contract with the Bulls. That pretty much seals the deal. It's just a question of how severe the penalty will be. And I have a bad feeling that it will be a FRP, a big fine and likely a suspension. The league has made it clear that it will take these issues seriously. Stupid move by AKME not to manage this better.

[MisterRoy]

First, knowing the numbers doesn’t mean that WE talked to Lonzo. Couldn’t it be that the Pelicans were doing the talking?

Secondly, let’s not start with throwing Lavar under the bus here. There is no indication at this point that he’s got anything to do with this.

Regarding the first part, I don't think we can talk to Ball through the Pelicans. That seems like it'd be circumventing the rules.

I don't see the point of pretending like we didn't violate the rules here. There's just no possible explanation for how an $85/m deal could be agreed upon by Ball, sorted out with Temple, agreed to by the Pelicans, and then reported by Shams all in the opening minutes of free agency. We tampered. Now the question is whether or not the league can prove it to a degree that's satisfying to their standards and if so how severe the punishment is. The fact that we're already getting hints that it's going to be severe leads me to believe that the league has some pretty damning evidence.

As for Ball, he's a public figure so he's not off-limits here. I also don't think I'm exactly throwing him under the bus. It's a message board and we're all speculating here.

Agreed. The Bulls and Pels can talk trade whenever they want. But the Bulls cannot negotiate a contract with Lonzo until after 5 pm, either directly or indirectly. The Bulls certainly cannot use the Pels to negotiate with Lonzo because that would create a hole in the tampering rules big enough to render them irrelevant.

Usually the tampering occurs but there are no sanctions because it cannot be proven. Here, we have Shams' tweet at 5:00 pm detailing the one part of the deal that could not be discussed until after 5:00 pm - the terms of Lonzo's contract with the Bulls. That pretty much seals the deal. It's just a question of how severe the penalty will be. And I have a bad feeling that it will be a FRP, a big fine and likely a suspension. The league has made it clear that it will take these issues seriously. Stupid move by AKME not to manage this better.

Why is this on AKME? Maybe the teams agreed not to announce anything right away and it's the agent that messed up?

Too much speculation and damning our own teams people.


Sent from somewhere you've never been.

[bad knees]

Regarding the first part, I don't think we can talk to Ball through the Pelicans. That seems like it'd be circumventing the rules.

I don't see the point of pretending like we didn't violate the rules here. There's just no possible explanation for how an $85/m deal could be agreed upon by Ball, sorted out with Temple, agreed to by the Pelicans, and then reported by Shams all in the opening minutes of free agency. We tampered. Now the question is whether or not the league can prove it to a degree that's satisfying to their standards and if so how severe the punishment is. The fact that we're already getting hints that it's going to be severe leads me to believe that the league has some pretty damning evidence.

As for Ball, he's a public figure so he's not off-limits here. I also don't think I'm exactly throwing him under the bus. It's a message board and we're all speculating here.

Agreed. The Bulls and Pels can talk trade whenever they want. But the Bulls cannot negotiate a contract with Lonzo until after 5 pm, either directly or indirectly. The Bulls certainly cannot use the Pels to negotiate with Lonzo because that would create a hole in the tampering rules big enough to render them irrelevant.

Usually the tampering occurs but there are no sanctions because it cannot be proven. Here, we have Shams' tweet at 5:00 pm detailing the one part of the deal that could not be discussed until after 5:00 pm - the terms of Lonzo's contract with the Bulls. That pretty much seals the deal. It's just a question of how severe the penalty will be. And I have a bad feeling that it will be a FRP, a big fine and likely a suspension. The league has made it clear that it will take these issues seriously. Stupid move by AKME not to manage this better.

Why is this on AKME? Maybe the teams agreed not to announce anything right away and it's the agent that messed up?

Too much speculation and damning our own teams people.


Sent from somewhere you've never been.

That's why I said that AKME needed to "manage this better." If you are going to conspire with someone, you better make damn sure that your co-conspirators are not blowing the deal by blabbing in the wrong place at the wrong time. Having Lonzo's deal go public at 5:00 pm is like rubbing it in the NBA's face. They will have no choice but to hammer us.

[Betta Bulleavit]

First, knowing the numbers doesn’t mean that WE talked to Lonzo. Couldn’t it be that the Pelicans were doing the talking?

Secondly, let’s not start with throwing Lavar under the bus here. There is no indication at this point that he’s got anything to do with this.

Regarding the first part, I don't think we can talk to Ball through the Pelicans. That seems like it'd be circumventing the rules.

I don't see the point of pretending like we didn't violate the rules here. There's just no possible explanation for how an $85/m deal could be agreed upon by Ball, sorted out with Temple, agreed to by the Pelicans, and then reported by Shams all in the opening minutes of free agency. We tampered. Now the question is whether or not the league can prove it to a degree that's satisfying to their standards and if so how severe the punishment is. The fact that we're already getting hints that it's going to be severe leads me to believe that the league has some pretty damning evidence.

As for Ball, he's a public figure so he's not off-limits here. I also don't think I'm exactly throwing him under the bus. It's a message board and we're all speculating here.

Agreed. The Bulls and Pels can talk trade whenever they want. But the Bulls cannot negotiate a contract with Lonzo until after 5 pm, either directly or indirectly. The Bulls certainly cannot use the Pels to negotiate with Lonzo because that would create a hole in the tampering rules big enough to render them irrelevant.

Usually the tampering occurs but there are no sanctions because it cannot be proven. Here, we have Shams' tweet at 5:00 pm detailing the one part of the deal that could not be discussed until after 5:00 pm - the terms of Lonzo's contract with the Bulls. That pretty much seals the deal. It's just a question of how severe the penalty will be. And I have a bad feeling that it will be a FRP, a big fine and likely a suspension. The league has made it clear that it will take these issues seriously. Stupid move by AKME not to manage this better.

I think both you and HS are missing my primary point. This was a sign and trade. The “Sign” coming first in that sequence and the “Trade” coming last. Both of which NOP would have had to have initiated. Therefore, if the contract was negotiated, it’s not a forgone conclusion that the Bulls negotiated that with Lonzo. It’s just as likely that the Bulls were told that this was the deal that Lonzo was looking for, the Bulls said cool, we can do that, and then the deal was then negotiated between Lonzo and the Pelicans so that they could sign him and then trade him.

Again, maybe tampering did happen. But Shams reporting the deal right at 5 doesn’t necessarily prove that. All it proves is that the Bulls and Pelicans had agreed to a deal prior to the start of free agency. And without an electronic trail that proves the Bulls talked to Lonzo or his camp before then, this is all speculation.

[Betta Bulleavit]

Read on Twitter

So wait, is NO in trouble here too or just us?

Sorry if that's explained in the video, I can't watch it at the moment.

I’d like to think that if there is trouble to be in, the Bulls and the Pelicans would have to be married to each other in that regard because only they could have enabled this.

[umfan83]

I don’t think they would void the deal but if they did would that mean the Bulls could not work out another deal with Ball?

[bad knees]

Regarding the first part, I don't think we can talk to Ball through the Pelicans. That seems like it'd be circumventing the rules.

I don't see the point of pretending like we didn't violate the rules here. There's just no possible explanation for how an $85/m deal could be agreed upon by Ball, sorted out with Temple, agreed to by the Pelicans, and then reported by Shams all in the opening minutes of free agency. We tampered. Now the question is whether or not the league can prove it to a degree that's satisfying to their standards and if so how severe the punishment is. The fact that we're already getting hints that it's going to be severe leads me to believe that the league has some pretty damning evidence.

As for Ball, he's a public figure so he's not off-limits here. I also don't think I'm exactly throwing him under the bus. It's a message board and we're all speculating here.

Agreed. The Bulls and Pels can talk trade whenever they want. But the Bulls cannot negotiate a contract with Lonzo until after 5 pm, either directly or indirectly. The Bulls certainly cannot use the Pels to negotiate with Lonzo because that would create a hole in the tampering rules big enough to render them irrelevant.

Usually the tampering occurs but there are no sanctions because it cannot be proven. Here, we have Shams' tweet at 5:00 pm detailing the one part of the deal that could not be discussed until after 5:00 pm - the terms of Lonzo's contract with the Bulls. That pretty much seals the deal. It's just a question of how severe the penalty will be. And I have a bad feeling that it will be a FRP, a big fine and likely a suspension. The league has made it clear that it will take these issues seriously. Stupid move by AKME not to manage this better.

I think both you and HS are missing my primary point. This was a sign and trade. The “Sign” coming first in that sequence and the “Trade” coming last. Both of which NOP would have had to have initiated. Therefore, if the contract was negotiated, it’s not a forgone conclusion that the Bulls negotiated that with Lonzo. It’s just as likely that the Bulls were told that this was the deal that Lonzo was looking for, the Bulls said cool, we can do that, and then the deal was then negotiated between Lonzo and the Pelicans so that they could sign him and then trade him.

Again, maybe tampering did happen. But Shams reporting the deal right at 5 doesn’t necessarily prove that. All it proves is that the Bulls and Pelicans had agreed to a deal prior to the start of free agency. And without an electronic trail that proves the Bulls talked to Lonzo or his camp before then, this is all speculation.

What you are describing still falls within the ambit of the Bulls using the Pels to negotiate a contract with Lonzo. And that cannot happen until after 5 pm on the date in question. Stupid, stupid (by our FO). Just wait to announce it until 5:45 pm.