Official: DeRozan! Player of the Week p69

[dukeespn]

Analytics people seem to really hate what Bulls gave up on to S&T DeRozan AND they also hate the contract itself.

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I'm not one of them but I also don't love the idea to bring him. I'm not sure if DeRozan would still have positive trade value in 2023-24 season but I hope so.

At least Sam Vecenie of the Athletics (draft guru) loves the fit.

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[WindyCityBorn]

Analytics people seem to really hate what Bulls gave up on to S&T DeRozan AND they also hate the contract itself.

Read on Twitter

I'm not one of them but I also don't love the idea to bring him. I'm not sure if DeRozan would still have positive trade value in 2023-24 season but I hope so.

At least Sam Vecenie of the Athletics (draft guru) loves the fit.

Read on Twitter

Why would be trying to trade after one season? You all like a 33 year can’t play at high level any more. Looking at the list of top players that clearly isn’t true.

[E-DC]

You all may want to take a look at DeRozan's pre and post All-Star splits from last season. His game really fell off during the second half, and it also appears that he had to take a number of games off just to rest.

Pre All-Star
ORTG: 125
DRTG: 114

Post All-Star
ORTG: 120
DRTG: 119

He also doesn't have a 3 point shot to rely on to carry himself over the finish line as he closes out his career.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/derozde01/splits/2021

[dougthonus]

Why would be trying to trade after one season? You all like a 33 year can’t play at high level any more. Looking at the list of top players that clearly isn’t true.

The very, very best players are still awfully good past this age, but the history of the NBA would show that generally guys start slowing down at this age and even those very best players are slowing down. DeRozan has never been that elite of a player, so his slowed down version is likely to be more noticeable than LeBron or KD as an example.

Doesn't mean it won't work out, but there is obviously risk there, and I get why people don't like the trade for us.

At the same time, I think he will make the Bulls a lot better and that this team is a lot better. My questions (and maybe to an extent some of the analytics guys too) is not whether the Bulls are a lot better, I think they are. It's whether they are better enough that it was worth it.

You sold out a lot of your future to land a team that I'd say will be between 40-50 wins. I'd expect the most likely outcome for them is a 1st round loss with a 2nd round loss being very reasonable as well. They will have little room to improve from there (lack of tradeable contracts, lack of room under the luxury tax, lack of draft picks) and so then you wonder if you peak at 45ish wins for two years and start slowing down, was that still the right thing to do?

If you get into the 2nd round a couple times, then I think for sure. If you fail to do that, then probably not.

[StunnerKO]

Derozan played more games post all star break than pre by like 3 games , he played 61 games out of 72 .

Pre All Star

20 ppg
7.2 apg
4.9 rpg
89% FT on 6.8 attempts
48% FG
33.8 mpg


Post


23 ppg
6.7 apg
3.7 rpg
87% FT on 7.6 attempts
50% FG
33.6 mpg

[E-DC]

Derozan played more games post all star break than pre by like 3 games , he played 61 games out of 72 .

Pre All Star

20 ppg
7.2 apg
4.9 rpg
89% FT on 6.8 attempts
48% FG
33.8 mpg


Post


23 ppg
6.7 apg
3.7 rpg
87% FT on 7.6 attempts
50% FG
33.6 mpg

Pre All-Star game he played 29 of 32 games, and post he played 32 of 40. Keep your eye on the advanced stats and don't get too fixated on per game numbers.

[StunnerKO]

Derozan played more games post all star break than pre by like 3 games , he played 61 games out of 72 .

Pre All Star

20 ppg
7.2 apg
4.9 rpg
89% FT on 6.8 attempts
48% FG
33.8 mpg


Post


23 ppg
6.7 apg
3.7 rpg
87% FT on 7.6 attempts
50% FG
33.6 mpg

Pre All-Star game he played 29 of 32 games, and post he played 32 of 40. Keep your eye on the advanced stats and don't get too fixated on per game numbers.

Well good thing he isn’t the number 1 option on this bulls team opposed to being that on the Spurs . So yes he took a dip he was still a productive player . He still basically played 90 % of the shortened season; players miss game from time to time especially in a year when injuries were high due to circumstances . They really crammed a lot of games in some weeks to and that’s good just like lockout season were players that were mostly healthy in their primes were getting injured more than usual because lack of in between time in games .

[weneeda2guard]

We gave up what we gave up for derozan, for the same reason we gave up what we gave up for Vucevic, similar to why the clippers gave up what they gave up for Paul George, and why Denver paid Paul Millsap 30 mill for his last years and etc because if you don't come with that type of deal you not getting those pieces. Deals are not what you are worth it is what you can negotiate. Bulls were a team in the lottery unable to attract any real talent to join us and we somehow get attractive enough to woo ball derozan and Vucevic here in the span of 6 months. It's not our money and as far as picks unless this turns into a catastrophic collapse those picks likely are outside of the lottery picks going forward and the most we end up giving up is a 8th pick. Which turned into a player for Orlando who likely won't be more than solid role player.

Lonzo ball is here due to great recruiting from lavine

Derozan is not with the clippers or lakers because AK jumped and gave derozan a offer he couldn't refuse.

And I don't feel the package we gave up for Vucevic is a overpay and Orlando could have gotten a similar deal just about anywhere. If Vucevic was a free agent now he would have been the most sought after free agent on the market considering guys like steph durant and kawhi weren't on the move.

[Indomitable]

You all may want to take a look at DeRozan's pre and post All-Star splits from last season. His game really fell off during the second half, and it also appears that he had to take a number of games off just to rest.

Pre All-Star
ORTG: 125
DRTG: 114

Post All-Star
ORTG: 120
DRTG: 119

He also doesn't have a 3 point shot to rely on to carry himself over the finish line as he closes out his career.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/derozde01/splits/2021

His father was sick and I believe he died. That was why he missed the time.

DD is an efficient ball player. He does have flaws. His salary says so. He is making less then 30 million.

The Bulls are a great fit offensively. Defense will be the area of concern.

[Indomitable]

Analytics people seem to really hate what Bulls gave up on to S&T DeRozan AND they also hate the contract itself.

Read on Twitter

I'm not one of them but I also don't love the idea to bring him. I'm not sure if DeRozan would still have positive trade value in 2023-24 season but I hope so.

At least Sam Vecenie of the Athletics (draft guru) loves the fit.

Read on Twitter

Why would be trying to trade after one season? You all like a 33 year can’t play at high level any more. Looking at the list of top players that clearly isn’t true.

He just turned 32 about 4 days ago.

[StunnerKO]

Yup he missed 4 games due to his father

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[dukeespn]

Analytics people seem to really hate what Bulls gave up on to S&T DeRozan AND they also hate the contract itself.

Read on Twitter

I'm not one of them but I also don't love the idea to bring him. I'm not sure if DeRozan would still have positive trade value in 2023-24 season but I hope so.

At least Sam Vecenie of the Athletics (draft guru) loves the fit.

Read on Twitter

Why would be trying to trade after one season? You all like a 33 year can’t play at high level any more. Looking at the list of top players that clearly isn’t true.

Trying to trade him after one season? What are you talking about? I mentioned 2023-2024 season and that year is the last season of 3-year contract.


His defense is more terrible than people think and it always harms his overall production. He needs to be a very good offensive player to compensate defensive loss.

On offensive end the problem is he has to create most of his own shots to make the buckets. His 3pt shooting is literally non-existent which means we can't use him as a catch-and-shooter. He hasn't cut to the basket that much in his whole career too. In one word his off-ball impact is not good while other notable stars can impact the game playing off the ball. They can knock down 3s after they receive passes or can cut to the basket to score with ease. Some star players can defend too. That's the big difference. DeRozan must get older on the Bulls and his on-ball creation requires lots of energy while he showed little evidence that he can play moving off the ball.

[dukeespn]

We gave up what we gave up for derozan, for the same reason we gave up what we gave up for Vucevic, similar to why the clippers gave up what they gave up for Paul George, and why Denver paid Paul Millsap 30 mill for his last years and etc because if you don't come with that type of deal you not getting those pieces. Deals are not what you are worth it is what you can negotiate. Bulls were a team in the lottery unable to attract any real talent to join us and we somehow get attractive enough to woo ball derozan and Vucevic here in the span of 6 months. It's not our money and as far as picks unless this turns into a catastrophic collapse those picks likely are outside of the lottery picks going forward and the most we end up giving up is a 8th pick. Which turned into a player for Orlando who likely won't be more than solid role player.

Lonzo ball is here due to great recruiting from lavine

Derozan is not with the clippers or lakers because AK jumped and gave derozan a offer he couldn't refuse.

And I don't feel the package we gave up for Vucevic is a overpay and Orlando could have gotten a similar deal just about anywhere. If Vucevic was a free agent now he would have been the most sought after free agent on the market considering guys like steph durant and kawhi weren't on the move.

The Clippers gave up that much because they could sign with Kawhi Leonard and trade for Paul George at the same time. That's a whole different story. No need to say that Kawhi is a MVP caliber player. PG13 is not a MVP candidate anymore but at least he regularly makes All-NBA team. Also they are two-way players who can impact the game on both ends of the floor.

Now look at the Bulls. Zach LaVine never made All-NBA team and he's still a below-average defender. Vucevic never made All-NBA team and he can't protect the rim while he is a center. And here's Demar DeRozan who made All-NBA team what 3 years ago? He's still very good but his defense is still terrible and he's never been selected as an all-star since the Raptors traded him to the Spurs. No need to say that Toronto won the championship after they traded DeRozan for Leonard.

And you still want to compare the Bulls situation to the Clippers' situation?

[E-DC]

You all may want to take a look at DeRozan's pre and post All-Star splits from last season. His game really fell off during the second half, and it also appears that he had to take a number of games off just to rest.

Pre All-Star
ORTG: 125
DRTG: 114

Post All-Star
ORTG: 120
DRTG: 119

He also doesn't have a 3 point shot to rely on to carry himself over the finish line as he closes out his career.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/derozde01/splits/2021

His father was sick and I believe he died. That was why he missed the time.

DD is an efficient ball player. He does have flaws. His salary says so. He is making less then 30 million.

The Bulls are a great fit offensively. Defense will be the area of concern.

Thanks for correcting me or clarifying things, this more than likely contributed to his regression during the second half of last season.

[Hangtime84]

MAYBE DD and CWhite for SImmons in Jan? Philly might be desparate and that is a talent upgrade

We just need to play well and have some team success.

[MisterRoy]

MAYBE DD and CWhite for SImmons in Jan? Philly might be desparate and that is a talent upgrade

We just need to play well and have some team success.

We also need to let the team gel. I hope it doesn't amount to losing but it will require some patience in the beginning.


Sent from somewhere you've never been.

[The Force.]

I feel like if there's any deal to be criticized it's the Vuc trade. Vuc and DD have similar impacts offensively: Vuc is the better 3pt shooter, DD gets to the line more. Vuc is slightly better defensively. Both are roughly the same age. Meanwhile we gave up 2x the assets for Vuc, albeit for a cheaper contract.

In a vacuum I'd say the DD trade was a slight overpay but mostly fine. When compounded with the Vuc trade, which was a clear overpay, it looks a lot worse. Also the 2025 pick will likely come at a time when we really need it, assuming we enter a full rebuild.

[MisterRoy]

I feel like if there's any deal to be criticized it's the Vuc trade. Vuc and DD have similar impacts offensively: Vuc is the better 3pt shooter, DD gets to the line more. Vuc is slightly better defensively. Both are roughly the same age. Meanwhile we gave up 2x the assets for Vuc, albeit for a cheaper contract.

In a vacuum I'd say the DD trade was a slight overpay but mostly fine. When compounded with the Vuc trade, which was a clear overpay, it looks a lot worse. Also the 2025 pick will likely come at a time when we really need it, assuming we enter a full rebuild.

I wonder if JR would be willing to go after a full rebuild in 2025 after the past several years here. Too much lost revenue.


Sent from somewhere you've never been.

[1985Bear]

I saw it posted in a thread and it really stuck with me. We have a large expiring contract, with a good player available each year:

Vuc expires in 23
Demar expires in 24
Ball in 25
Zach in 26 or 27

We can continue to keep getting better each year with NBA talent not college prospects.

DDR contract is fine. If you need to trade for $35-$40 mil mega star, you have to have a big contract to send out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[weneeda2guard]

We gave up what we gave up for derozan, for the same reason we gave up what we gave up for Vucevic, similar to why the clippers gave up what they gave up for Paul George, and why Denver paid Paul Millsap 30 mill for his last years and etc because if you don't come with that type of deal you not getting those pieces. Deals are not what you are worth it is what you can negotiate. Bulls were a team in the lottery unable to attract any real talent to join us and we somehow get attractive enough to woo ball derozan and Vucevic here in the span of 6 months. It's not our money and as far as picks unless this turns into a catastrophic collapse those picks likely are outside of the lottery picks going forward and the most we end up giving up is a 8th pick. Which turned into a player for Orlando who likely won't be more than solid role player.

Lonzo ball is here due to great recruiting from lavine

Derozan is not with the clippers or lakers because AK jumped and gave derozan a offer he couldn't refuse.

And I don't feel the package we gave up for Vucevic is a overpay and Orlando could have gotten a similar deal just about anywhere. If Vucevic was a free agent now he would have been the most sought after free agent on the market considering guys like steph durant and kawhi weren't on the move.

The Clippers gave up that much because they could sign with Kawhi Leonard and trade for Paul George at the same time. That's a whole different story. No need to say that Kawhi is a MVP caliber player. PG13 is not a MVP candidate anymore but at least he regularly makes All-NBA team. Also they are two-way players who can impact the game on both ends of the floor.

Now look at the Bulls. Zach LaVine never made All-NBA team and he's still a below-average defender. Vucevic never made All-NBA team and he can't protect the rim while he is a center. And here's Demar DeRozan who made All-NBA team what 3 years ago? He's still very good but his defense is still terrible and he's never been selected as an all-star since the Raptors traded him to the Spurs. No need to say that Toronto won the championship after they traded DeRozan for Leonard.

And you still want to compare the Bulls situation to the Clippers' situation?

Don't skim through post and respond. The examples I gave where not any attempt to compare the bulls solely to the clips but point out the price of doing business for many teams and examples like giving up that many picks for Paul George, paying Paul Millsap 30 mill for years, etc its the cost of doing business and the position we were in we were going to have to pay up and take risk.

So this wasn't specific in comparing the bulls to the clippers it was dealing with the cost of doing business based on where we were at. Jordan is not walking through that door