Official Trade Thread - Part XLI

[J-Ves]

Thing is, "good" Davis Bertans -- the guy on our team in 2019-20 -- wasn't worth the deal he got to re-sign.

Most of the hopeful thinking about Bertans -- like the hopeful thinking about Kuzma, like the hopeful thinking about Aaron Holiday, like the hopeful thinking about Isaiah Todd's short-term future -- is just the vibration of fans' hopes in the idle off-season air.

Maybe some of it will come true -- anything can happen. So far the big achievements of the off season have been 1) completing the process of turning John Wall's "untradable" salary into assets that can be moved & 2) signing Spencer Dinwiddie.

We're still a rebuilding team that's afraid to rebuild -- that's my fear at least.

The cynic in me says we were able to dump Wall coming off an ACL tear to sign Dinwiddie with two previous ACL tears!

Of course we were able to add depth at positions where we didn't need to add depth at with the Xtra $$$ saved so that's a bonus I guess.

But no one can call Shepp lazy. In two years he completely flipped over a roster with a limited upside to create a slightly younger roster with a limited upside. Not sure what the results will be long term but we certainly got an active GM.

Lol I thought I was the only one to notice this. This dude Sheppard made Dinwiddie “a priority” when no one else did. Looking at SD’s career numbers and I am still confused at to why he was made a priority. He was an average player before the acl tears, and more than likely he’ll continue to be average if they’re lucky. You have to wonder if the ultimate goal of this front office was to win a championship or to get rid of wall’s contract.

I have zero faith in Sheppard. Zero.

The injury concerns are worrying but Dinwiddie is better than average. Personally I’m happy they went after him than the woefully overrated Lonzo Ball

[Dat2U]

The cynic in me says we were able to dump Wall coming off an ACL tear to sign Dinwiddie with two previous ACL tears!

Of course we were able to add depth at positions where we didn't need to add depth at with the Xtra $$$ saved so that's a bonus I guess.

But no one can call Shepp lazy. In two years he completely flipped over a roster with a limited upside to create a slightly younger roster with a limited upside. Not sure what the results will be long term but we certainly got an active GM.

Lol I thought I was the only one to notice this. This dude Sheppard made Dinwiddie “a priority” when no one else did. Looking at SD’s career numbers and I am still confused at to why he was made a priority. He was an average player before the acl tears, and more than likely he’ll continue to be average if they’re lucky. You have to wonder if the ultimate goal of this front office was to win a championship or to get rid of wall’s contract.

I have zero faith in Sheppard. Zero.

The injury concerns are worrying but Dinwiddie is better than average. Personally I’m happy they went after him than the woefully overrated Lonzo Ball

And tbh 3 yrs - $54 million is a great deal with only $10 mil guaranteed in the last year. We're likely getting a decent discount due to the injury history.

[gambitx777]

Lol I thought I was the only one to notice this. This dude Sheppard made Dinwiddie “a priority” when no one else did. Looking at SD’s career numbers and I am still confused at to why he was made a priority. He was an average player before the acl tears, and more than likely he’ll continue to be average if they’re lucky. You have to wonder if the ultimate goal of this front office was to win a championship or to get rid of wall’s contract.

I have zero faith in Sheppard. Zero.

The injury concerns are worrying but Dinwiddie is better than average. Personally I’m happy they went after him than the woefully overrated Lonzo Ball

And tbh 3 yrs - $54 million is a great deal with only $10 mil guaranteed in the last year. We're likely getting a decent discount due to the injury history.

It's a ga.ble but if you get the two healthiest years of the man's NBA stint some how and he puts up his 2019 numbers playing 70+ games that contract if worth it.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[Dark Faze]

The team has a number of avenues to pursue upgrade via a trade now at least, and that was always the most likely way we'd improve the roster. Holding cap space for a "star" free agency signing is hard to bank on. If an opening presents itself and someone wants to be in Washington for whatever reason, we've got the assets to make it happen.

In the mean time we've got a team that looks like it'll be fun to root for. We have quite a loaded roster though...will be interesting to see who gets moved.

[nate33]

Thing is, "good" Davis Bertans -- the guy on our team in 2019-20 -- wasn't worth the deal he got to re-sign.

Most of the hopeful thinking about Bertans -- like the hopeful thinking about Kuzma, like the hopeful thinking about Aaron Holiday, like the hopeful thinking about Isaiah Todd's short-term future -- is just the vibration of fans' hopes in the idle off-season air.

Maybe some of it will come true -- anything can happen. So far the big achievements of the off season have been 1) completing the process of turning John Wall's "untradable" salary into assets that can be moved & 2) signing Spencer Dinwiddie.

We're still a rebuilding team that's afraid to rebuild -- that's my fear at least.

The cynic in me says we were able to dump Wall coming off an ACL tear to sign Dinwiddie with two previous ACL tears!

Of course we were able to add depth at positions where we didn't need to add depth at with the Xtra $$$ saved so that's a bonus I guess.

But no one can call Shepp lazy. In two years he completely flipped over a roster with a limited upside to create a slightly younger roster with a limited upside. Not sure what the results will be long term but we certainly got an active GM.

Lol I thought I was the only one to notice this. This dude Sheppard made Dinwiddie “a priority” when no one else did. Looking at SD’s career numbers and I am still confused at to why he was made a priority. He was an average player before the acl tears, and more than likely he’ll continue to be average if they’re lucky. You have to wonder if the ultimate goal of this front office was to win a championship or to get rid of wall’s contract.

I have zero faith in Sheppard. Zero.

Good grief, Eeyore!

This has to be one of the oddest criticism I've ever heard. You are mad that our GM identified a guy who is underrated and a good fit here and went and got him on a reasonable contract while dumping Westbrook's salary in the process? If other teams drove up the price for Dinwiddie, you'd be complaining that Sheppard allowed himself to get caught up in a bidding war.

Again, Dinwiddie was the best player on a .500 Nets team 2 years ago. That's a good player.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

The cynic in me says we were able to dump Wall coming off an ACL tear to sign Dinwiddie with two previous ACL tears!

Of course we were able to add depth at positions where we didn't need to add depth at with the Xtra $$$ saved so that's a bonus I guess.

But no one can call Shepp lazy. In two years he completely flipped over a roster with a limited upside to create a slightly younger roster with a limited upside. Not sure what the results will be long term but we certainly got an active GM.

Lol I thought I was the only one to notice this. This dude Sheppard made Dinwiddie “a priority” when no one else did. Looking at SD’s career numbers and I am still confused at to why he was made a priority. He was an average player before the acl tears, and more than likely he’ll continue to be average if they’re lucky. You have to wonder if the ultimate goal of this front office was to win a championship or to get rid of wall’s contract.

I have zero faith in Sheppard. Zero.

Good grief, Eeyore!

This has to be one of the oddest criticism I've ever heard. You are mad that our GM identified a guy who is underrated and a good fit here and went and got him on a reasonable contract while dumping Westbrook's salary in the process? If other teams drove up the price for Dinwiddie, you'd be complaining that Sheppard allowed himself to get caught up in a bidding war.

Again, Dinwiddie was the best player on a .500 Nets team 2 years ago. That's a good player.

Hopefully he hasn't lost his burst from the surgery, and keep our fingers crossed he doesn't tear his ACL again.

[Ruzious]

What's especially encouraging about Spencer is - Nets fans are very complimentary of him. And his size is a huge advantage in today's switchable NBA. There's a lot of Jrue Holiday to his game.

Watch on YouTube

[keynote]

In a recent podcast, Bill Simmons floated a theory that Chicago doesn't want to sign Lavine to another big contract. He speculated about a Lavine for Ben Simmons swap, and alleged that the DeRozan signing might be in preparation for Lavine's departure.

Read on Twitter

?s=19

The Bulls blogosphere is also keeping an eye on Lavine's contract extension negotiations:
https://pippenainteasy.com/2021/08/06/chicago-bulls-derozans-impact-on-lavines-contract-negotiations/

The Bulls did hand DeRozan a three-year contract worth around a total of $85 million, all of which looks to be guaranteed money. And with star center Nikola Vucevic also set to get max money over the course of roughly the entire life of DeRozan’s deal, the Bulls could be in a tough spot to get any more movement in the midst of the LaVine contract negotiations.

Given LaVine’s comments recently about contract negotiations that he essentially just wants his respect, it’s tough to tell where the talks sit at the moment. LaVine’s recent comment on the matter of contract negotiations was a bit confusing, if not at least out of the ordinary.

It seems like the Bulls would try to keep a younger core to build around LaVine, instead of going out to get a player that could be confusing fit and is 31 years of age, in DeRozan.

I’m not ready to declare that the Bulls are in a spot to use DeRozan as the eventual replacement for LaVine. But he might be more of an insurance policy if the contract negotiation talks with LaVine don’t wind up panning out.

I like Lavine. He's a fellow Drew Hanlen client, and he's been unfairly tainted by the "good stats on bad team" label. If these musings have any truth to them (and they should be taken with a huge grain of salt), he might be the best wing available in the trade market. High-risk, high reward, given his pending free agency. But that might drive his price down to say, Rui or Deni+salary+a future 1st or two (we'd have to loop in OKC to remove encumbrances) -- provided, of course, that Lavine exerts pressure on his end.

Rui+Davis works in the checker.
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7464307

Now, I suspect that Chicago won't trade Lavine in the off-season; they'll want to see how this team with two new starters and healthy returning players gels. If they start out hot, they might be willing to throw the max extension at him. But it's something to keep an eye on.

[payitforward]

Thing is, "good" Davis Bertans -- the guy on our team in 2019-20 -- wasn't worth the deal he got to re-sign.

Most of the hopeful thinking about Bertans -- like the hopeful thinking about Kuzma, like the hopeful thinking about Aaron Holiday, like the hopeful thinking about Isaiah Todd's short-term future -- is just the vibration of fans' hopes in the idle off-season air.

Maybe some of it will come true -- anything can happen. So far the big achievements of the off season have been 1) completing the process of turning John Wall's "untradable" salary into assets that can be moved & 2) signing Spencer Dinwiddie.

We're still a rebuilding team that's afraid to rebuild -- that's my fear at least.

The cynic in me says we were able to dump Wall coming off an ACL tear to sign Dinwiddie with two previous ACL tears!

Of course we were able to add depth at positions where we didn't need to add depth at with the Xtra $$$ saved so that's a bonus I guess.

But no one can call Shepp lazy. In two years he completely flipped over a roster with a limited upside to create a slightly younger roster with a limited upside. Not sure what the results will be long term but we certainly got an active GM.

Lol I thought I was the only one to notice this. This dude Sheppard made Dinwiddie “a priority” when no one else did. Looking at SD’s career numbers and I am still confused at to why he was made a priority. He was an average player before the acl tears, and more than likely he’ll continue to be average if they’re lucky. You have to wonder if the ultimate goal of this front office was to win a championship or to get rid of wall’s contract.

I have zero faith in Sheppard. Zero.

Not true that Dinwiddie "was an average player." He played very little & not well his first two years in the league. But, he was quite good both his 3d & 4th years. Then he decided he needed to shoot a whole lot more, & in both '18-19 & '19-20 his productivity dropped.

We made him a priority, it seems, because having traded Westbrook we needed to do something to help insure that Brad will sign an extension next year. Was there something better to do? Maybe. But, don't you think criticism loses some of its force when no alternative is suggested to the move being criticized. I haven't read a single proposal by you of what you think would have been better moves -- tho it may be that I simply missed something you contributed along those lines.

"Zero faith..." -- ? Really? I would have thought it obvious that Tommy has made a whole bunch of good moves. He inherited an absolute pile of trash two years ago. We'd had 24 guys play minutes for us that season, & there were exactly 4 players on that team whom anyone would conceivably want, & who could actually get on the court, going forward: Brad Beal, Thomas Bryant, Tomas Satoransky, & Troy Brown. Sato had expired, & we got value for him in a sign and trade deal. Bryant is one of the all time great bargains -- a really good player acquired (by Tommy!) for absolutely nothing. Brown was the asset we used to acquire Gafford. & Tommy also added another extraordinary bargain -- Bertans for, again, essentially nothing.

Finally, I don't know how anyone could fail to give kudos to Tommy Sheppard for having turned John Wall's contract into a bunch of at least possibly useful/tradable assets for the total cost of a well-protected R1 pick.

I'm plenty critical of some of what Tommy's done; I've made that obvious. But, give him his due, why don't you? He was handed a truly terrible team burdened with problems that made turning it around look virtually impossible. We are a whole lot better off than we were 2 years ago, & that's due to Tommy Sheppard & no one else.

[TGW]

The cynic in me says we were able to dump Wall coming off an ACL tear to sign Dinwiddie with two previous ACL tears!

Of course we were able to add depth at positions where we didn't need to add depth at with the Xtra $$$ saved so that's a bonus I guess.

But no one can call Shepp lazy. In two years he completely flipped over a roster with a limited upside to create a slightly younger roster with a limited upside. Not sure what the results will be long term but we certainly got an active GM.

Lol I thought I was the only one to notice this. This dude Sheppard made Dinwiddie “a priority” when no one else did. Looking at SD’s career numbers and I am still confused at to why he was made a priority. He was an average player before the acl tears, and more than likely he’ll continue to be average if they’re lucky. You have to wonder if the ultimate goal of this front office was to win a championship or to get rid of wall’s contract.

I have zero faith in Sheppard. Zero.

Good grief, Eeyore!

This has to be one of the oddest criticism I've ever heard. You are mad that our GM identified a guy who is underrated and a good fit here and went and got him on a reasonable contract while dumping Westbrook's salary in the process? If other teams drove up the price for Dinwiddie, you'd be complaining that Sheppard allowed himself to get caught up in a bidding war.

Again, Dinwiddie was the best player on a .500 Nets team 2 years ago. That's a good player.

First of all, don’t put words in my mouth. Secondly, you are a stat nerd correct? You know damn well Dinwiddie career stats are pedestrian at best. Some of you are so desperate to love Sheppard that it’s sad.

[dangermouse]

What's especially encouraging about Spencer is - Nets fans are very complimentary of him. And his size is a huge advantage in today's switchable NBA. There's a lot of Jrue Holiday to his game.

Watch on YouTube

I'll admit I havent seen much Dinwiddie before. I get Antonio Daniels vibes, but a suped up version

[penbeast0]

...We are a whole lot better off than we were 2 years ago, & that's due to Tommy Sheppard & no one else.

Let's give it a quarter season or so and see if this team works or is just another no hoper. There isn't much in the way of breakout youth potential outside of Avdija, even Kispert was a 4 year senior, so they should be able to be playoff range at least. If they are top 4 in the conference after a quarter year, I will hop on the bandwagon. If they are dead meat, I will throw tomatoes. If they look like another 7-10 seed type team, I will go back to my default mode of mild despair.

[nate33]

First of all, don’t put words in my mouth. Secondly, you are a stat nerd correct? You know damn well Dinwiddie career stats are pedestrian at best. Some of you are so desperate to love Sheppard that it’s sad.

Pedestrian at best?

During his last 3 healthy seasons, he posted 20.1 points and 7.3 assists per 36 with an ORtg of 113 while being an average or better defender. I'd take that over Westbrook. Hell, that's arguably better than the last 3 healthy years of John Wall (2016-2019). Wall posted 22 points and 10 assists per 36 with an ORtg of 108 and pretty bad D, and with no willingness to do anything off ball.

[Illuminaire]

Agree with Nate and PIF.

Dimwiddie is a starting caliber player on a very attractive contract. Even if he underperforms or gets injured again, there are GMs that would value him as a piece. Or if the Wiz decide to move Beal and pivot into a tear down, that combo of player and contract will have real positive value on the trade market.

[Frichuela]

Agree with Nate and PIF.

Dimwiddie is a starting caliber player on a very attractive contract. Even if he underperforms or gets injured again, there are GMs that would value him as a piece. Or if the Wiz decide to move Beal and pivot into a tear down, that combo of player and contract will have real positive value on the trade market.

Seconded. There are risks of him coming from an ACL tear, but Sheppard has negotiated a pretty good value contract, partially guaranteed in the 3rd year and with some unlikely bonuses along the way..

In the link below there is a comparison of Dinwiddie's 2019-20 season to John Wall's all NBA 2016-17 season. Sure John was better but we can not say that Dinwiddie was mediocre. His numbers were pretty good, with the exception of his 3 pt %.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=dinwisp01&p1yrfrom=2020&player_id2=walljo01&p2yrfrom=2017

[payitforward]

...We are a whole lot better off than we were 2 years ago, & that's due to Tommy Sheppard & no one else.

Let's give it a quarter season or so and see if this team works or is just another no hoper. There isn't much in the way of breakout youth potential outside of Avdija, even Kispert was a 4 year senior, so they should be able to be playoff range at least. If they are top 4 in the conference after a quarter year, I will hop on the bandwagon. If they are dead meat, I will throw tomatoes. If they look like another 7-10 seed type team, I will go back to my default mode of mild despair.

No need to wait -- you can return to "mild despair."

We are "better off" -- b/c we've increased our flexibility contract-wise & we are younger. We are "better" too -- but not hugely better. There is zero possibility that we will be top 4 in the conference this year.

[payitforward]

Agree with Nate and PIF.

Dimwiddie is a starting caliber player on a very attractive contract. Even if he underperforms or gets injured again, there are GMs that would value him as a piece. Or if the Wiz decide to move Beal and pivot into a tear down, that combo of player and contract will have real positive value on the trade market.

In 2018-19, Dinwiddie scored 25% more points per 40 minutes than he had in 2017-18. He also had a significantly higher TS% (i.e. he scored more points & scored them more efficiently).

But... in fact, he wasn't a better player. Just about everything else got worse: defensive & offensive rebounding, assists, turnovers, steals, fouls -- all worse than the year before. Sufficiently so that overall, he wasn't as good as he had been. 2019-20 was about the same as 2018-19.

Now... someone might have a solid argument to make about his defense that would counteract the above. No problem. I like Spencer Dinwiddie. I just don't want to paint him in brighter colors than his real ones.

[penbeast0]

No need to wait -- you can return to "mild despair."

We are "better off" -- b/c we've increased our flexibility contract-wise & we are younger. We are "better" too -- but not hugely better. There is zero possibility that we will be top 4 in the conference this year.

There's always Covid and injuries (of course that cuts both ways).

[tontoz]

Some interesting wizards discussion at the end of the Zach Lowe podcast, roughly 20 minutes starting at the 1:10 mark.

https://dcs.megaphone.fm/ESP7498468756.mp3?key=514b1ac2cc8b77549ddf11f3b348e7b5

They discuss the big trade, Unselds philosophy, Beals loyalty etc. Apparently Beal was active in recruiting dinwiddie.

[tsvqt]

Am I the only one who sees the current Wizards lineup as;
Dinwiddie, Holiday, Winston
Beal, KCP, Neto
Kuzma, Deni, Respert
Rui, Bertans, Todd
Gafford, Harrell, Bryant (Until he's fully recovered in Dec, & assumes the starting role),

I see sites with KCP projected as our starting three. I see post saying Kuzma is best at the four, & Rui off the bench. I'm not one who thinks this can't be our best lineup going forward. Please elaborate as to where I'm waaaaay off base in my thinking. Thanks!