General Blue Jays Thread

[Parataxis]

[so]Finally, the Yankees lose a close game!!![/so]

UGH, nevermind. I didn't notice that they also scored in the top of the 9th. Whoops.

C'mon law of averages, do your thing.

[linery88]

On the Vlad paradox. Right now he is:

89th percentile in exit velocity.
85th percentile in hard-hit balls.
Above-average K rate.
High-average whiff rate.
Below-average walk rate.
Above-average chase rate.
14th percentile in launch angle.


Unless changing his swing dramatically ups his whiff/K rate, there's no way that isn't a top-tier hitter in the future, right? It's the only thing he does poorly.

I think he's been the victim of his own natural talent. Young players hitting the ball on the ground too often is pretty common; you could see it with both Vlad/Bo in the minors, and Bo is also still below league-average in LA. It's just that most players will have that affect their overall performance enough that they won't reach the bigs until they cease chopping the ball, whereas Vlad's combination of plate discipline and exit velocity meant that he hit a lot of screaming groundball singles/doubles and produced eye-popping numbers despite the flaw.

The answer is simple.
Move vlad back to where he was raking,and the Jays scored 10 runs near a dozen times or so while in Dunedin or Buffalo.
I dont know about anybody else but i hate the thought of seeing vlad having to run hard more often now at the number 2 slot to get base hits,when he should be jogging around the bases while opposing pitchers have to figure out how they are gonna pitch him with 2 or 3 of our guys on base.vlad is an rbi machine who also hits for power,and avg,and was leading the triple crown race for a while,because he was batting 3rd.Springer is a great leadoff guy with speed.The next guy should also have speed,and make contact,like Bichette or Semian.Bichette has 17 steals ,none caught,and Springer we know has speed.If vlad has been moved there because of analytics then thats just wrong-imo.
I bet Blake Snell just loves analytics for taking him out last season during a 1 hit shoutout of the Dodgers,then losing.
I feel like they would kick ass moving vlad up to 3 or 4 ,and putting the pressure on the opposing team,who would have to worry about dealing with at least 2 good ,speedy contact hitters before facing vlad.Thats how we scored 10 runs so many times not long ago.Too bad,it would be so cool to see that proper lineup with vlad#3 now in the dome.

Schad’s post had absolutely nothing to do with his spot in the batting order, because it’s irrelevant to what he wrote. So no, that’s not the simple answer.

BTW, you previously suggested moving him to 4th, not 3rd, so you have already changed your mind on that over the past 2 days.

I never changed my mind about the batting order.I stated it differently here.
I,m saying they could put vlad in more than one spot 3 or 4.

[linery88]

The answer is simple.
Move vlad back to where he was raking,and the Jays scored 10 runs near a dozen times or so while in Dunedin or Buffalo.
I dont know about anybody else but i hate the thought of seeing vlad having to run hard more often now at the number 2 slot to get base hits,when he should be jogging around the bases while opposing pitchers have to figure out how they are gonna pitch him with 2 or 3 of our guys on base.vlad is an rbi machine who also hits for power,and avg,and was leading the triple crown race for a while,because he was batting 3rd.Springer is a great leadoff guy with speed.The next guy should also have speed,and make contact,like Bichette or Semian.Bichette has 17 steals ,none caught,and Springer we know has speed.If vlad has been moved there because of analytics then thats just wrong-imo.
I bet Blake Snell just loves analytics for taking him out last season during a 1 hit shoutout of the Dodgers,then losing.
I feel like they would kick ass moving vlad up to 3 or 4 ,and putting the pressure on the opposing team,who would have to worry about dealing with at least 2 good ,speedy contact hitters before facing vlad.Thats how we scored 10 runs so many times not long ago.Too bad,it would be so cool to see that proper lineup with vlad#3 now in the dome.

Schad’s post had absolutely nothing to do with his spot in the batting order, because it’s irrelevant to what he wrote. So no, that’s not the simple answer.

BTW, you previously suggested moving him to 4th, not 3rd, so you have already changed your mind on that over the past 2 days.

I never changed my mind about the batting order.I stated it differently here.
I,m saying they could put vlad in more than one spot 3 or 4.

Its all based on what they have done this year while vlad batted 3rd.

[Schad]

Its all based on what they have done this year while vlad batted 3rd.

We're scoring 5.56 runs/game with Vlad hitting 2nd, and 5.31 runs/game with Vlad hitting 3rd.

[linery88]

Its all based on what they have done this year while vlad batted 3rd.

We're scoring 5.56 runs/game with Vlad hitting 2nd, and 5.31 runs/game with Vlad hitting 3rd.

Point taken,but they have played a lot less games with him batting 2nd than 3rd.
Also,they could have put him batting 2nd a lot sooner than this if they are so convinced of it.

[c3luong]

I'm sure they've asked him and he's fine batting second. If he wants to bat 2nd or 3rd or 4th you put him wherever he wants because he's your best player.

[Ong_dynasty]

I’m on the side of vlad hitting 2nd seems strange.
But hey they must know what they are doing and if vlad wants to hit 3rd I’m sure it would be done.
The thing is how much do you also think it is helping springer?

[The_Hater]

Its all based on what they have done this year while vlad batted 3rd.

We're scoring 5.56 runs/game with Vlad hitting 2nd, and 5.31 runs/game with Vlad hitting 3rd.

Point taken,but they have played a lot less games with him batting 2nd than 3rd.
Also,they could have put him batting 2nd a lot sooner than this if they are so convinced of it.

Your main problem here is I don’t think very many people reading this board think where Vlade bats in the order had anything to do with his slight dip in OPS. In fact, Vlade was 2/16 in his last 5 games batting 3rd before the change.

[c3luong]

I’m on the side of vlad hitting 2nd seems strange.
But hey they must know what they are doing and if vlad wants to hit 3rd I’m sure it would be done.
The thing is how much do you also think it is helping springer?

It would be much more "strange" to have him bat 3rd of all places...

Ignoring what Vlad wants, 2nd or 4th would be the optimal spots for him, lineup-wise. 4th being a bit better because of his power. If it was up to me it would be semien 2 teoscar 3 vladdy 4. But again - you just do what your players are most comfortable with, and if Vladdy says he's fine, he's fine.

[The_Hater]

It should be noted that Ohtani, Judge, Freeman, Tatis and Soto generally bat 2nd in the order. And Kris Bryant has hit there for the Cubs and Giants. Tampa has started to bat Cruz 2nd the past week. A majority or Mike Trout’s plate appearances in his career? Batting 2nd.

This has become an increasingly popular place to bat your best hitter once teams/analytics finally figured out that putting speed and players who can bunt in that spot was costing them runs. Get your best hitters to the plate as many times as possible.

[Parataxis]

It should be noted that Ohtani, Judge, Freeman, Tatis and Soto generally bat 2nd in the order. And Kris Bryant has hit there for the Cubs and Giants. Tampa has started to bat Cruz 2nd the past week. A majority or Mike Trout’s plate appearances in his career? Batting 2nd.

This has become an increasingly popular place to bat your best hitter once teams/analytics finally figured out that putting speed and players who can bunt in that spot was costing them runs. Get your best hitters to the plate as many times as possible.

Yup. And also, get your best hitters to the plate in a spot where there are other really good hitters coming up behind them.

Guerrero followed by Valera means that Guerrero is going to get walked (and thus not be hitting) a whole lot more than Guerrero followed by Semien. You WANT teams to pitch to your best batters, and not just avoid them.

[c3luong]

For what it's worth, there are arguments to be made from an analytics perspective for batting Vlad 1st (because of his OBP) or 4th (because of his power), but 2nd is a fine spot for him.

In any case, the difference between putting him anywhere in the first five slots is minimal as I've been saying all along, and so putting him wherever he feels most comfortable should be the priority.

[Schad]

Get your best hitters to the plate as many times as possible.

That's really it, and a shocking amount of what people call analytics is just unlearning conventional wisdom that was grounded in an era that has long since passed, and getting back to doing the simple, logical thing. Managing in an extreme low-power environment, like the late 1960s, prioritizing speed and the ability to bunt/hit and run at the top of the order makes sense, because runners in scoring position are precious enough to risk outs in their pursuit. But that's not this era.

In a high-power environment, particularly with an elite offense, it's really very simple: get dudes on base, hit baseballs hard. Springer/Vlad are our best all-around hitters and OBP guys, so they should hit the most. Semien/Bichette are our third and fourth-best hitters, so they should hit next. Teoscar's the best of the rest; he should hit after them. It really doesn't need to be more complicated than that.

[linery88]

For what it's worth, there are arguments to be made from an analytics perspective for batting Vlad 1st (because of his OBP) or 4th (because of his power), but 2nd is a fine spot for him.

In any case, the difference between putting him anywhere in the first five slots is minimal as I've been saying all along, and so putting him wherever he feels most comfortable should be the priority.

Well from what I noticed during games where vlad batted 3rd,he seemed more comfortable,more at ease..looser,and the opponents were the ones who were stressed out,and the result was vlad leading in triple crown numbers,and this offense scoring the amount of runs one would expect from this lineup,on a consistent basis.

[linery88]

I’m on the side of vlad hitting 2nd seems strange.
But hey they must know what they are doing and if vlad wants to hit 3rd I’m sure it would be done.
The thing is how much do you also think it is helping springer?

It would be much more "strange" to have him bat 3rd of all places...

Ignoring what Vlad wants, 2nd or 4th would be the optimal spots for him, lineup-wise. 4th being a bit better because of his power. If it was up to me it would be semien 2 teoscar 3 vladdy 4. But again - you just do what your players are most comfortable with, and if Vladdy says he's fine, he's fine.

From what I have read/seen about Montoya he may not know what he is doing sometimes on offense,and bunting,but he is great manager as far as managing those guys personalities...etc.

[c3luong]

For what it's worth, there are arguments to be made from an analytics perspective for batting Vlad 1st (because of his OBP) or 4th (because of his power), but 2nd is a fine spot for him.

In any case, the difference between putting him anywhere in the first five slots is minimal as I've been saying all along, and so putting him wherever he feels most comfortable should be the priority.

Well from what I noticed during games where vlad batted 3rd,he seemed more comfortable,more at ease..looser,and the opponents were the ones who were stressed out,and the result was vlad leading in triple crown numbers,and this offense scoring the amount of runs one would expect from this lineup,on a consistent basis.

The other guy just pointed out that we scored more runs per game with vlad batting second.

[linery88]

For what it's worth, there are arguments to be made from an analytics perspective for batting Vlad 1st (because of his OBP) or 4th (because of his power), but 2nd is a fine spot for him.

In any case, the difference between putting him anywhere in the first five slots is minimal as I've been saying all along, and so putting him wherever he feels most comfortable should be the priority.

Well from what I noticed during games where vlad batted 3rd,he seemed more comfortable,more at ease..looser,and the opponents were the ones who were stressed out,and the result was vlad leading in triple crown numbers,and this offense scoring the amount of runs one would expect from this lineup,on a consistent basis.

The other guy just pointed out that we scored more runs per game with vlad batting second.

Then I pointed out that he has been at number 3 for a lot more games.

[c3luong]

Well from what I noticed during games where vlad batted 3rd,he seemed more comfortable,more at ease..looser,and the opponents were the ones who were stressed out,and the result was vlad leading in triple crown numbers,and this offense scoring the amount of runs one would expect from this lineup,on a consistent basis.

The other guy just pointed out that we scored more runs per game with vlad batting second.

Then I pointed out that he has been at number 3 for a lot more games.

Ok, sorry I thought you implied in your post that the team played better with him batting 3rd. But if not and you agree the team has been performing better on offense with him batting second then we're gucci.

[polo007]

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[linery88]

The other guy just pointed out that we scored more runs per game with vlad batting second.

Then I pointed out that he has been at number 3 for a lot more games.

Ok, sorry I thought you implied in your post that the team played better with him batting 3rd. But if not and you agree the team has been performing better on offense with him batting second then we're gucci.

I just noticed how happy they were with Semian Bichette then Vlad batting order.Bichette,and Vlad are really tight,and love watching each other bat,and then talking about it in the dugout after.They each watched each other a lot from the on deck circle,and I do think they played better in that lineup,and the others in the top 6 could have all went to the All star Game because of it.