Hayes must go!!

pistons4ever · Post #1 » by **pistons4ever** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:55 am

you dont draft a number 1pick not to play to his strenght...cade at the corner waiting for threes is not his game...he must be the primerly ballhandler and the PG of this team....we have cojo as veteran pg and lee as 3rd option... f.jackson is a sg but he can play some pg too

I would trade hayes ...j.jackson and/or sekou for the best SG possible...sure there is a risk with hayes could become a great passing PG but this is not the place for this..

I dont know what this package can net us but would be nice to have a sg like hield...ffv or even joe inglis...think that for hield and inglis we must not include hayes...

Stewart/olynyk
Grant/lyles
Bey/Livers /diallo??
X/F.Jackson
Cade/cojo

More balanced 1o man Rotation

pistons4ever · Post #2 » by **pistons4ever** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:57 am

pistons4ever wrote:you dont draft a number 1pick not to play to his strenght...cade at the corner waiting for threes is not his game...he must be the primerly ballhandler and the PG of this team....we have cojo as veteran pg and lee as 3rd option... f.jackson is a sg but he can play some pg too

I would trade hayes ...j.jackson and/or sekou for the best SG possible...sure there is a risk with hayes could become a great passing PG but this is not the place for this..

I dont know what this package can net us but would be nice to have a sg like hield...ffv or even joe ingles...think that for hield and ingles we must not include hayes...

Stewart/olynyk
Grant/lyles
Bey/Livers /diallo??
X/F.Jackson
Cade/cojo

More balanced 1o man Rotation

zeebneeb · Post #3 » by **zeebneeb** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:34 am

So your basing this on one summer league game? Just want to make sure of your reasoning here.

pistons4ever · Post #4 » by **pistons4ever** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:46 am

No..based on the fact that cade should be the PG ..no matter if 6-8...6-7...6-6...or even 6-5 ....and hayes as backup would be possible but i think he can net us a valuable SG

Canadafan · Post #5 » by **Canadafan** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:57 am

I'm ok with Hayes staying but I would be down to improving Cades backcourt partner for sure. Would help him acclimate tremendously if we gave him immediate help.

440BB · Post #6 » by **440BB** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:03 am

Getting rid of Hayes in the near term would net us very little, as his value is just a bit higher than when he was out with the hip injury. I think it's more beneficial in the near term to slot him in as the backup point guard. I'm sure they'll spend part of the season trying to play him next to Cunningham but his shot and confidence in that shot will likely keep him out of the starting lineup.

I'd give Hayes a full season to show how he develops. I doubt he could have less trade value than he does today.

chrbal · Post #7 » by **chrbal** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:40 am

So is this like a blueAdams burner account or something

ElectricMayhem · Post #8 » by **ElectricMayhem** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:56 am

You need to stop this nonsense that's going on in your head right now because Killian Hayes isn't going to net us anything right now. He's had a partial year and one summer league game. If he's going to provide us with any value, it's going to be through production. He may never amount to anything. That's a definite possibility. But he's already shown very good vision and solid D. He's really young. If you had been a fan of one of Billups' first teams, I'm sure you'd be making a "Billups must go!!" thread too.

zeebneeb · Post #9 » by **zeebneeb** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:16 pm

ElectricMayhem wrote:You need to stop this nonsense that's going on in your head right now because Killian Hayes isn't going to net us anything right now. He's had a partial year and one summer league game. If he's going to provide us with any value, it's going to be through production. He may never amount to anything. That's a definite possibility. But he's already shown very good vision and solid D. He's really young. If you had been a fan of one of Billups' first teams, I'm sure you'd be making a "Billups must go!!" thread too.

I keep hammering this point home seemingly to no avail.

You never, ever, give up on a player this early. I don't care if you have 10 point guards. One of those could be the one to transform the damn team. Piston fans should know this as the team has both given away, and recieved players who have become great.

For all any of us know, Hayes could be the one that becomes great, and Cade is the one who needs to be shipped.

Holding to long can also be a detriment as well. Drummond is such an example, but Hayes is still sitting on 26 NBA games played. 26. If you can determine that a player is no good after that many games, your wasting your time posting here, you should be on the payroll of an NBA team because God knows a bunch of them could use your services .

LaSheed · Post #10 » by **LaSheed** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:20 pm

Hayes isn't going anywhere.

IDC if he doesn't even start with Cade. I'm all for Cade playing to his strengths. Hell if Hayes needs to play against backups let him. Patience is what we need.

With Frank Jackson officially back im ok with starting our best 3pt shooter.

Tecmo · Post #11 » by **Tecmo** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:23 pm

I get wanting to see Cade handle the ball more, but now isn't the time to trade Hayes. Let's give the Pistons time to see if the two can play together and, at minimum, give Hayes a chance to improve his value before we play fantasy-GM.

zeebneeb · Post #12 » by **zeebneeb** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:23 pm

LaSheed wrote:Hayes isn't going anywhere.

IDC if he doesn't even start with Cade. I'm all for Cade playing to his strengths. Hell if Hayes needs to play against backups let him. Patience is what we need.

With Frank Jackson officially back im ok with starting our best 3pt shooter.

I've thought about that, and I present to you, the absolutely, positively, must get a bucket lineup;

Cade
Jackson
Bey
Olynyk
Garza

This is a pure shooters lineup, I take no responsibility for that lineup on defense.

mrroboto4889 · Post #13 » by **mrroboto4889** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:47 pm

I think this idea that the primary ball handler can never take a possession off has been pretty well de-bunked. LeBron and Wade/Kyrie worked. Harden and CP3 worked. You see Luka defer to Brunson or THJ for 3 or 4 possessions in row to give himself some rest while still being on the floor as a decoy, but also giving those guys a heat check so they stay active while watching him dribble most of the game.

Nevermind that it's way to early in his career to decide you know what Hayes is going to be. I just think the actual premise for saying those 2 can't be the backcourt of the future is flawed. But we certainly don't have to make a move now even if you were right.

mike06181 · Post #14 » by **mike06181** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:54 pm

This whole only can have one ball handler thing is beyond crazy. You need at least 2

Post #15 » by **Snakebites** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:18 pm

Man, this is the sort of spicy take you usually only get on the General Board, at least as it's very own thread.

My stance on him is pretty stable- if he can't shoot he can't start on a competitive team. Seeing as we're not yet a competitive team, I'm OKAY with their decision to ride it out and see if he can figure it out. Long term, his role may be off the bench, and I've been on record saying I'd like to see them try that in the short term potentially, too. And incidentally, if the whole league knows he can't shoot (and they do), he won't net us a valuable 2 anyway.

And yes, you can have two playmakers, easily. What you can't have is a single playmaker who won't/can't shoot. Heck, even one as good as Simmons is pushing it at best, as the entire league is learning.

"Player sucks but also we should trade him because he has a lot of value" is always such a strange take.

vege · Post #16 » by **vege** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:19 pm

ElectricMayhem wrote:You need to stop this nonsense that's going on in your head right now because Killian Hayes isn't going to net us anything right now. He's had a partial year and one summer league game. If he's going to provide us with any value, it's going to be through production. He may never amount to anything. That's a definite possibility. But he's already shown very good vision and solid D. He's really young. If you had been a fan of one of Billups' first teams, I'm sure you'd be making a "Billups must go!!" thread too.

I agree with thig but the guy is also right about one thing. Cade needs the ball on his hands, and Hayes is useless without the ball. They are not a good fit together. Hayes should be on the bench and they should play as little minutes as possible together or honestly, Hayes should be in the G-League, he has to develop so many things that he is umplayable right now.

We need a better backcourt player next to Cade to give him the best chance of achieving his full potential, that's the only thing that should matter right now, everything else is irrelevant, no other player in our roster has the potential to be a star.

thesack12 · Post #17 » by **thesack12** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:24 pm

To me, Hayes' biggest problem right now is his complete lack of assertiveness/aggressiveness.

He seems almost allergic to penetrating, or even just taking a jumpshot.

Piston Pete · Post #18 » by **Piston Pete** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:25 pm

It’s very possible that we look to surround Cade with shooters and run a lineup like this:

Cade (guards opposing 2s)
F. Jax (guards opposing 1s)
Bey
Grant
Stewart

Bench:
Hayes
Diallo (assuming he’s re-signed)
J. Jax
Sekou
Olynyk

Post #19 » by **dVs33** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:28 pm

Cade and Hayes will look fine by the time the season starts. Hayes will make the most of cades shooting and Cade will develop without having the pressure of completely carrying the playmaking duties.

Invictus88 · Post #20 » by **Invictus88** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:46 pm

I mean if we are going to base opinions about pgs on one summer league game them at least get it right: We need to get rid of Saben Lee!

Saben Lee was the one being ball dominant when Cade was on the floor. In contrast Hayes was actually doing a good job of spreading the ball around and getting it to #2 early and often.

Note that I'm not saying we should get rid of anyone... but if I did it would be Tyler Cook and his hands of stone.