Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread

[DCZards]

Yes, the vaccinated are spreading the virus…which makes the unvaccinated look even more foolish for not getting vaccinated since they are the ones primarily being hospitalized and dying from the virus.

[Ruzious]

I don't care what those studies say. We have real world data, lots of it, that show that the vaccinated are spreading. I've pointed out Iceland and the UK. But how about the HMS Queen Elizabeth? The British destroyer had a crew of 700, all vaccinated. 100 of them caught Covid anyhow. This happened in May.

It seems pretty straightforward to me. Being vaccinated probably reduces your viral load some, but that's offset by the fact that it also reduces your symptoms so you don't know that you are sick and so you don't avoid public gatherings. The end result is that the vaccinated are spreading the disease as much as, or at least nearly as much as, the unvaccinated.

If you don't care what the studies show, then there's no point in any discussions. We're done here. What a f'n joke, and what a waste of time to even try talking to you.

If you don't care about real world reality, then there's no point in any discussions. We're done here. What a f'n joke and what a waste of time to even try talking to you.

Nate, you're a f'n moron.

[nate33]

If you don't care what the studies show, then there's no point in any discussions. We're done here. What a f'n joke, and what a waste of time to even try talking to you.

If you don't care about real world reality, then there's no point in any discussions. We're done here. What a f'n joke and what a waste of time to even try talking to you.

Nate, you're a f'n moron.

And you are being an real a-hole. I have never been disrespectful to anyone during this entire discussion until you started raining explicatives.

I gave you real world examples of the vaccine clearly and indisputably failing to prevent the spread. The study you linked to does not explain Iceland and the HMS Queen Elizabeth, so clearly the study is flawed. I don't understand why you fail to see this.

[nate33]

Yes, the vaccinated are spreading the virus…which makes the unvaccinated look even more foolish for not getting vaccinated since they are the ones primarily being hospitalized and dying from the virus.

Fine. Call them foolish. But don't force them to take the vaccine. They're not hurting you.

[tontoz]

I suppose it's just a coincidence that the worst Covid spread is in Florida.

Seasonality. All the southern states are getting hit now just as they got hit last summer. People go indoors in the summer in the South.

We had the same pattern last year. Southern conservatives were laughing at the incompetence in the north when Covid raged in the winter. Now northern liberals get to laugh at the incompetence of the south as the virus rages in the summer. Neither side is right. The virus simply spreads when people are indoors more.

By indoors are you talking about nightclubs?

The 10 day forecast in Miami has no days projected with a high temp over 90. Why would people feel the need to stay inside? High temps in the summer in Florida aren't much higher than high temps in DC.

Arizona is a lot hotter than Florida (several days over 100 on 10 day forcase in scottsdale) but their Covid cases are only a fraction of Floridas:

On Friday, the state reported 2,826 new COVID-19 cases and 42 new known deaths as hospitalizations for the disease have recently increased. There were 1,309 patients hospitalized across Arizona for known or suspected COVID-19 as of Thursday, the most since the start of March.

Friday's new case report marked the highest daily addition of new cases since March 5.

Previous days this week saw the following new case reports: 2,066 on July 31, 2,306 on Aug. 1, 1,846 on Aug. 2, 1,974 on Aug. 3, 2,286 on Aug. 4 and 2,289 on Aug. 5.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-health/2021/08/06/aug-6-arizona-covid-19-update-2-826-new-cases-42-new-deaths/5511509001/


While Florida has 20k new cases per day.


All the people at the Florida beaches must not have gotten the indoor memo. There are live cams for a lot of those beaches, which are routinely packed. Golf courses are also packed, as they have been ever since covid hit.

Covid is raging in Florida because DeSantis a nutjob, not because people are inside. That is laughable.

[nate33]

More data on the declining ineffectiveness of the vaccines:

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/moderna-may-be-superior-pfizer-against-delta-breakthrough-odds-rise-with-time-2021-08-09/

In a study of more than 50,000 patients in the Mayo Clinic Health System, researchers found the effectiveness of Moderna's vaccine against infection had dropped to 76% in July - when the Delta variant was predominant - from 86% in early 2021. Over the same period, the effectiveness of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine had fallen to 42% from 76%, researchers said.

[nate33]

I suppose it's just a coincidence that the worst Covid spread is in Florida.

Seasonality. All the southern states are getting hit now just as they got hit last summer. People go indoors in the summer in the South.

We had the same pattern last year. Southern conservatives were laughing at the incompetence in the north when Covid raged in the winter. Now northern liberals get to laugh at the incompetence of the south as the virus rages in the summer. Neither side is right. The virus simply spreads when people are indoors more.

By indoors are you talking about nightclubs?

The 10 day forecast in Miami has no days projected with a high temp over 90. Why would people feel the need to stay inside? High temps in the summer in Florida aren't much higher than high temps in DC.

Arizona is a lot hotter than Florida (several days over 100 on 10 day forcase in scottsdale) but their Covid cases are only a fraction of Floridas:

On Friday, the state reported 2,826 new COVID-19 cases and 42 new known deaths as hospitalizations for the disease have recently increased. There were 1,309 patients hospitalized across Arizona for known or suspected COVID-19 as of Thursday, the most since the start of March.

Friday's new case report marked the highest daily addition of new cases since March 5.

Previous days this week saw the following new case reports: 2,066 on July 31, 2,306 on Aug. 1, 1,846 on Aug. 2, 1,974 on Aug. 3, 2,286 on Aug. 4 and 2,289 on Aug. 5.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-health/2021/08/06/aug-6-arizona-covid-19-update-2-826-new-cases-42-new-deaths/5511509001/


While Florida has 20k new cases per day.


All the people at the Florida beaches must not have gotten the indoor memo. There are live cams for a lot of those beaches, which are routinely packed. Golf courses are also packed, as they have been ever since covid hit.

Covid is raging in Florida because DeSantis a nutjob, not because people are inside. That is laughable.

Florida currently has the highest daily case rate. That's true. But they are outperforming Texas, Arizona and New Mexico in to cumulative cases (per capita), and outperforming AZ and NM by a mile in total cumulative deaths, despite having the oldest population. Florida has also dramatically outperformed the northern states in total cumulative deaths. States like NJ, NY and MA have nearly double the death rate.

[tontoz]

If the heat is keeping people inside in Florida then why is their daily case rate 10 times higher than Arizona which is hotter in the summer, by a lot?

[nate33]

If the heat is keeping people inside in Florida then why is their daily case rate 10 times higher than Arizona which is hotter in the summer, by a lot?

That's false. Per capita, Florida's daily case rate is just over twice as high as Arizona, not 10 times.

[tontoz]

If the heat is keeping people inside in Florida then why is their daily case rate 10 times higher than Arizona which is hotter in the summer, by a lot?

That's false. Per capita, Florida's daily case rate is just over twice as high as Arizona, not 10 times.

Ok why is Florida's per capita daily case rate over twice as high as Arizona which is hotter in the summer?

[nate33]

If the heat is keeping people inside in Florida then why is their daily case rate 10 times higher than Arizona which is hotter in the summer, by a lot?

That's false. Per capita, Florida's daily case rate is just over twice as high as Arizona, not 10 times.

Ok why is Florida's per capita daily case rate over twice as high as Arizona which is hotter in the summer?

For the same reason Arizona's was twice as high as Florida's 3 months ago, and also last October.

The virus ebbs and flows for many reasons. You can't take a snapshot in time when Region A is doing worse than Region B and act like it's some kind of grand gotcha moment.

And honestly, the emoticons are childish.

[tontoz]

That's false. Per capita, Florida's daily case rate is just over twice as high as Arizona, not 10 times.

Ok why is Florida's per capita daily case rate over twice as high as Arizona which is hotter in the summer?

For the same reason Arizona's was twice as high as Florida's 3 months ago, and also last October.

The virus ebbs and flows for many reasons. You can't take a snapshot in time when Region A is doing worse than Region B and act like it's some kind of grand gotcha moment.

So you are officially abandoning the 'people staying inside because of the heat' argument?

[nate33]

Ok why is Florida's per capita daily case rate over twice as high as Arizona which is hotter in the summer?

For the same reason Arizona's was twice as high as Florida's 3 months ago, and also last October.

The virus ebbs and flows for many reasons. You can't take a snapshot in time when Region A is doing worse than Region B and act like it's some kind of grand gotcha moment.

So you are officially abandoning the 'people staying inside because of the heat' argument?

No. Heat is why both Florida and Arizona are doing worse than northern states. But that doesn't mean that Arizona and Florida must have the exact same per capita case rate. Obviously, things other than just heat are a factor.


Perhaps I should throw in a few more .
That means I win the argument, right?

[kblack]

Man, I haven’t been around here in YEARS. Good to see the same folks still holding it down. My 2 cents of this vaccine debate. It's true that real world results show that the vaccinated are spreading the virus. If you remember, the CDC said that the vaccinated would be unlikely to spread the virus back in February. What happened? The Variants have changed that. Why do we have variants? Because the virus remains active and mutated. Because so many remain unvaccinated, this will continue to happen. There are too many examples of vaccines virtually eradicating viruses. As long as folks remain unvaccinated, there is no end in sight for COVID-19.

[tontoz]

For the same reason Arizona's was twice as high as Florida's 3 months ago, and also last October.

The virus ebbs and flows for many reasons. You can't take a snapshot in time when Region A is doing worse than Region B and act like it's some kind of grand gotcha moment.

So you are officially abandoning the 'people staying inside because of the heat' argument?

No. Heat is why both Florida and Arizona are doing worse than northern states. But that doesn't mean that Arizona and Florida must have the exact same per capita case rate. Obviously, things other than just heat are a factor.


Perhaps I should throw in a few more .
That means I win the argument, right?

You may not be aware of this but two of the most popular activities in the summer are playing golf and going to the beach. Florida has more golf courses for it's size than any state in the country and everyone in the state has easy access to the beach.

Not to mention that a lot of Floridians are only part time residents. The snowbirds aren't even there now and the tourism is way down in the summer.

It is amazing the lengths you will go to ignore the elephant in the room.

[Ruzious]

If you don't care about real world reality, then there's no point in any discussions. We're done here. What a f'n joke and what a waste of time to even try talking to you.

Nate, you're a f'n moron.

And you are being an real a-hole. I have never been disrespectful to anyone during this entire discussion until you started raining explicatives.

I gave you real world examples of the vaccine clearly and indisputably failing to prevent the spread. The study you linked to does not explain Iceland and the HMS Queen Elizabeth, so clearly the study is flawed. I don't understand why you fail to see this.

I can forgive extreme stupidity - but not when that logic is leading people to die for absolutely no sane reason and to hospital over-crowding for absolutely no sane reason. So it's not like I can ever forgive what you're doing. Was I out of line? Yes. Do I regret it? No - even though I realize you are incapable of thinking out of the bounds of your political leaders.

[nate33]

Man, I haven’t been around here in YEARS. Good to see the same folks still holding it down. My 2 cents of this vaccine debate. It's true that real world results show that the vaccinated are spreading the virus. If you remember, the CDC said that the vaccinated would be unlikely to spread the virus back in February. What happened? The Variants have changed that. Why do we have variants? Because the virus remains active and mutated. Because so many remain unvaccinated, this will continue to happen. There are too many examples of vaccines virtually eradicating viruses. As long as folks remain unvaccinated, there is no end in sight for COVID-19.

Vaccines can eradicate some types of viruses, but not this one. This virus is more like the flu in that it mutates quickly and it survives in many animal hosts as well. I know you want to believe that vaccination will put an end to this, but it won't.

Those other examples of vaccines eliminating viruses, but those were different types of viruses that didn't mutate as readily.

[nate33]

Nate, you're a f'n moron.

And you are being an real a-hole. I have never been disrespectful to anyone during this entire discussion until you started raining explicatives.

I gave you real world examples of the vaccine clearly and indisputably failing to prevent the spread. The study you linked to does not explain Iceland and the HMS Queen Elizabeth, so clearly the study is flawed. I don't understand why you fail to see this.

I can forgive extreme stupidity - but not when that logic is leading people to die for absolutely no sane reason and to hospital over-crowding for absolutely no sane reason. So it's not like I can ever forgive what you're doing. Was I out of line? Yes. Do I regret it? No - even though I realize you are incapable of thinking out of the bounds of your political leaders.

So where are we?

Do you cede that the vaccines aren't stopping the spread? Do you have an alternative explanation for Iceland and the HMS Queen Elizabeth?

[DCZards]

Yes, the vaccinated are spreading the virus…which makes the unvaccinated look even more foolish for not getting vaccinated since they are the ones primarily being hospitalized and dying from the virus.

Fine. Call them foolish. But don't force them to take the vaccine. They're not hurting you.

It's extremely naive of you to believe that the unvaccinated are not hurting you and me...and the quality of our lives.

[Ruzious]

And you are being an real a-hole. I have never been disrespectful to anyone during this entire discussion until you started raining explicatives.

I gave you real world examples of the vaccine clearly and indisputably failing to prevent the spread. The study you linked to does not explain Iceland and the HMS Queen Elizabeth, so clearly the study is flawed. I don't understand why you fail to see this.

I can forgive extreme stupidity - but not when that logic is leading people to die for absolutely no sane reason and to hospital over-crowding for absolutely no sane reason. So it's not like I can ever forgive what you're doing. Was I out of line? Yes. Do I regret it? No - even though I realize you are incapable of thinking out of the bounds of your political leaders.

So where are we?

Do you cede that the vaccines aren't stopping the spread? Do you have an alternative explanation for Iceland and the HMS Queen Elizabeth?

How many times does it have to be pointed out to you that people who have been vaccinated have not been dying or even getting hospitalized at anywhere near the rate that non-vaccintated people have?

Yes, there are some unknowns going forward, and we will have to get booster shots at some point with probably improved vaccinations, but people's lives have been saved and made better because of vaccinations, and they will continue to be saved because of vaccinations. And I'm not going to respond to any irrrelevant garbage that you're more than likely misinterpreting to try to justify your nonsensical views.

People not getting vaccinated are causing completely unnecessary deaths and sickness all over the world, and that is unforgivable. And trying to rationalize that away is unforgivable.