The Fire Rosas Thread

[minimus]

So you're telling me we couldn't have made the same moves as the Suns?

We found out how Bridges for Culver turned out.

Jae Crowder was definitely someone we could have gotten.

The CP3 trade would have been tricky but we did have Covington and Dieng.

It sounds like we could have had the same if not a better roster than the Suns.

CP3
Wiggins
Bridges
Crowder
Towns

You are definitely a better GM than Rosas because you could find the way to fit three max (two baby max, one super max) deals on the same team. You are better GM than James Jones who could fit only two max (one baby max and one super max) contract in PHO roster.

We're literally trying to do the same thing with Simmons right now.

No, Simmons has a baby max, not supermax

[m2002brian]

You do realize that this is the Minnesota Timberwolves board, right?
The team that has made the playoffs once in the last 10 years. The team that over the past ten seasons has a 38.4% winning percentage.
So…. You’ll have to forgive is reality based, or as you call them, “toxic”, posters. Maybe some of us have seen the patterns and bullshot before and we aren’t fooled.

Yes, I do realize that this is the Minnesota Timberwolves board, because fans have short memory, and no prospective. They see only what happens at the moment and react. I mean, too often I see this forum as a place where everyone whines and brings negativity. When we speak about Rosas:

* - do we remember that Thibs left Rosas an awful roster?
* - do we remember how bad Bulter drama damaged organization's image?
* - do we remember that KAT did not want to sign extension here, and now he seems to be loyal to MIN?
* - do we remember that Rosas gambled on Finch? Rosas went against public opinion
* - do we remember that major improvements will come from Ant, KAT, DLo, McDaniels who have not played even 10 games together?
* - do we remember that Rubio was basically unplayable as secondary ballhandler? Yes, he played very well with national team in Olympic games, but he has been playing well for them because he basically the only leader now, after old generation finished career (Gasol brother etc)
* - yes, he missed on Culver, but how about Edwards, Reid, Vando, McDaniels, Nowell, McLaughlin? A lot of positive things about Knight and Wright

And about this particular offseason. No cap space => no FAs, damaged organization's image => no interest from veterans. Who was/is realistically available for us? Simmons? Markkanen? Are we sure that overpaying either Simmons or Markkanen is a good idea? I am sure that Rosas could pay this price to save his job. So why he is not doing this? Maybe because he has more faith in our guys than fans? Maybe because he does not want to trade our future to save his job?

And last but not least. How about these solid teams and their offseasons:

BOS?
MEM?
POR?
DAL?
DEN?
NOP?
NYK?
SAC?
WAS?
IND?

Who outside of contenders improved significantly?

Great post! Right on all counts!

I was going to respond to m2002brian's post which entirely missed the mark on the team today but I thought it would be a waste of time. We're all disappointed we didn't do something but the opportunities apparently weren't there. Better to be patient. He obviously doesn't understand signing a PG, Vando, getting a SF/PF defensive fit while getting us away from the luxury tax was worth it in moving Ricky. We're a stronger team because of it.

Signing a PG?
Wouldn’t need to if we didn’t just trade one away.

Vando? Didn’t need space to sign him.
SF/PF? Don’t think this has been addressed.
Moving away from the Lux? Think moving on from Culver, Okogie, Juancho could have also done the same. Either way it’s, not my money.

I truly hope that Ant and Jadens growth, along with better health and coaching go a long way. I’m just disappointed that we traded a useful player for a much less useful player so we can clear space and then we don’t actually use that space. Good GMs make the Rubio trade for space when they KNOW another deal is there to be made. NOT when they think they MIGHT be able to do something later.

[Klomp]

Rosas said the team's focus, primarily through trades, was upgrading the PF position (he's had two off-seasons now). He may have over played his hand and nothing happened. Making calls is one thing, but closing is another.

Thus far, the response has been to look internal -- McDaniels, Prince, a re-signed Vanderbilt, and playing Reid next to Towns. What a joke.

Prince is not internal. He was acquired via trade this offseason. Which means the one move they made already this summer was made in part to address the PF position, which you are accusing Rosas of not doing.

[Baseline81]

Prince is not internal. He was acquired via trade this offseason. Which means the one move they made already this summer was made in part to address the PF position, which you are accusing Rosas of not doing.

You are correct, I should not have included Prince as internal. I will say, however, I actually don't see Prince as a PF. To me, he's very similar to McDaniels in that they are likely better off playing the majority of their minutes at SF.

[Krapinsky]

Prince is not internal. He was acquired via trade this offseason. Which means the one move they made already this summer was made in part to address the PF position, which you are accusing Rosas of not doing.

You are correct, I should not have included Prince as internal. I will say, however, I actually don't see Prince as a PF. To me, he's very similar to McDaniels in that they are likely better off playing the majority of their minutes at SF.

No doubt. Prince is a primary SF but can play some PF in small ball lineups.

Rosas has said post-Prince trade that he wants to upgrade the front court. I think they are still working on it, we just have to be patient and let the opportunities materialize. Everyone wants to fix every whole in the roster during the off season, but typically when you try to do that you over pay to do so. We're not winning it all next year, so why try to force it?

Nathan Knight seems like a hell of a find though. Smart plucking a guy from a team that has too much young talent in the front court.

[Merc_Porto]

Prince is not internal. He was acquired via trade this offseason. Which means the one move they made already this summer was made in part to address the PF position, which you are accusing Rosas of not doing.

You are correct, I should not have included Prince as internal. I will say, however, I actually don't see Prince as a PF. To me, he's very similar to McDaniels in that they are likely better off playing the majority of their minutes at SF.

No doubt. Prince is a primary SF but can play some PF in small ball lineups.

Rosas has said post-Prince trade that he wants to upgrade the front court. I think they are still working on it, we just have to be patient and let the opportunities materialize. Everyone wants to fix every whole in the roster during the off season, but typically when you try to do that you over pay to do so. We're not winning it all next year, so why try to force it?

Nathan Knight seems like a hell of a find though. Smart plucking a guy from a team that has too much young talent in the front court.

I believe that doesn't make sense. Or should be the mentality moving forward.
We weren't winning one year and a half ago and we still make the atrocious trade for DLO by giving away such a low-protected pick.

[Baseline81]

No doubt. Prince is a primary SF but can play some PF in small ball lineups.

Rosas has said post-Prince trade that he wants to upgrade the front court. I think they are still working on it, we just have to be patient and let the opportunities materialize. Everyone wants to fix every whole in the roster during the off season, but typically when you try to do that you over pay to do so. We're not winning it all next year, so why try to force it?

Nathan Knight seems like a hell of a find though. Smart plucking a guy from a team that has too much young talent in the front court.

I think it's safe to say PF requires the most attention (or C if you believe Towns can slide to PF).

I am on record as willing to wait until the start of the season, but as each day passes, my concern grows. One cannot continue to kick the "flexibility" can too far down the road.

Domejandro listed next year's FA class. The outcome is likely to be the same as this summer -- miss out due to lack of cap space. After a few names, it's underwhelming.

Despite what some may think, Markkanen would be an upgrade to the position. He desires a fresh start away from Chicago. The move would not require dealing the proverbial farm.

[Krapinsky]

You are correct, I should not have included Prince as internal. I will say, however, I actually don't see Prince as a PF. To me, he's very similar to McDaniels in that they are likely better off playing the majority of their minutes at SF.

No doubt. Prince is a primary SF but can play some PF in small ball lineups.

Rosas has said post-Prince trade that he wants to upgrade the front court. I think they are still working on it, we just have to be patient and let the opportunities materialize. Everyone wants to fix every whole in the roster during the off season, but typically when you try to do that you over pay to do so. We're not winning it all next year, so why try to force it?

Nathan Knight seems like a hell of a find though. Smart plucking a guy from a team that has too much young talent in the front court.

I believe that doesn't make sense. Or should be the mentality moving forward.
We weren't winning one year and a half ago and we still make the atrocious trade for DLO by giving away such a low-protected pick.

Apples and oranges.

But I don't want you to miss my point.

Meddling teams make desperate moves -- overpays -- to try and make the playoffs or to try and keep their star player happy. This is Charlotte and the Kings in a nutshell. Those are the kind of moves that can cripple a franchise and make you a treadmill team.

There isn't a PF option out there right now that is going to make much of a difference. Why overpay? Why screw up our salary cap for years just because we have a hole? Or give up more assets? I'd rather be patient and wait for better options to present themselves.

Whether you liked at the time or not, the Russell-Wiggins trade was made because Rosas believes Russell is going to be an all-star caliber player, someone that can combine with Towns to carry the franchise for the next 5-10 years.

[Merc_Porto]

No doubt. Prince is a primary SF but can play some PF in small ball lineups.

Rosas has said post-Prince trade that he wants to upgrade the front court. I think they are still working on it, we just have to be patient and let the opportunities materialize. Everyone wants to fix every whole in the roster during the off season, but typically when you try to do that you over pay to do so. We're not winning it all next year, so why try to force it?

Nathan Knight seems like a hell of a find though. Smart plucking a guy from a team that has too much young talent in the front court.

I believe that doesn't make sense. Or should be the mentality moving forward.
We weren't winning one year and a half ago and we still make the atrocious trade for DLO by giving away such a low-protected pick.

Apples and oranges.

But I don't want you to miss my point.

Meddling teams make desperate moves -- overpays -- to try and make the playoffs or to try and keep their star player happy. This is Charlotte and the Kings in a nutshell. Those are the kind of moves that can cripple a franchise and make you a treadmill team.

There isn't a PF option out there right now that is going to make much of a difference. Why overpay? Why screw up our salary cap for years just because we have a hole? Or give up more assets? I'd rather be patient and wait for better options to present themselves.

Whether you liked at the time or not, the Russell-Wiggins trade was made because Rosas believes Russell is going to be an all-star caliber player, someone that can combine with Towns to carry the franchise for the next 5-10 years.

I understand but my point is that the minute you make such a trade you have to make some moves after. You can't wait anymore...

Let's also not forget that another non playoffs season and KAT is going to be with only 2 years left on his contract. The time is now. The time was last season as well. So this season is too late already if we don't fix that HUGE problem we have.

[shangrila]

No doubt. Prince is a primary SF but can play some PF in small ball lineups.

Rosas has said post-Prince trade that he wants to upgrade the front court. I think they are still working on it, we just have to be patient and let the opportunities materialize. Everyone wants to fix every whole in the roster during the off season, but typically when you try to do that you over pay to do so. We're not winning it all next year, so why try to force it?

Nathan Knight seems like a hell of a find though. Smart plucking a guy from a team that has too much young talent in the front court.

I think it's safe to say PF requires the most attention (or C if you believe Towns can slide to PF).

I am on record as willing to wait until the start of the season, but as each day passes, my concern grows. One cannot continue to kick the "flexibility" can too far down the road.

Domejandro listed next year's FA class. The outcome is likely to be the same as this summer -- miss out due to lack of cap space. After a few names, it's underwhelming.

Despite what some may think, Markkanen would be an upgrade to the position. He desires a fresh start away from Chicago. The move would not require dealing the proverbial farm.

According to reports it would.

Chicago wants a 1st and no salary, meaning we’d need to find a 3rd team to take the 12mil ish in matching salary for Lauri’s desired 15mil contract, which costs one more 1st at minimum.

So 2 1sts for Lauri. You want to pay that? I’d rather swap expiring a and a 1st for Bertans if we’re going down that road.

[Baseline81]

According to reports it would.

Chicago wants a 1st and no salary, meaning we’d need to find a 3rd team to take the 12mil ish in matching salary for Lauri’s desired 15mil contract, which costs one more 1st at minimum.

So 2 1sts for Lauri. You want to pay that? I’d rather swap expiring a and a 1st for Bertans if we’re going down that road.

The reports may be true, but I highly doubt there is a team willing to pay that price.

[shangrila]

According to reports it would.

Chicago wants a 1st and no salary, meaning we’d need to find a 3rd team to take the 12mil ish in matching salary for Lauri’s desired 15mil contract, which costs one more 1st at minimum.

So 2 1sts for Lauri. You want to pay that? I’d rather swap expiring a and a 1st for Bertans if we’re going down that road.

The reports may be true, but I highly doubt there is a team willing to pay that price.

So? That doesn’t change the asking price.

Therefore, that’s the cost. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. But it’s disingenuous to act otherwise, especially when you then want to use it as a stick to beat Rosas with.

[Neeva]

bertans and getting a first from wizards>>> giving up a first and over paying Lauri 15 million plus.

[Baseline81]

So? That doesn’t change the asking price.

Therefore, that’s the cost. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. But it’s disingenuous to act otherwise, especially when you then want to use it as a stick to beat Rosas with.

I would not hold it against Rosas for passing on trading two first round picks for Markkanen.

Is Chicago's end game to have the Finnish international sign the QO?

[shangrila]

So? That doesn’t change the asking price.

Therefore, that’s the cost. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. But it’s disingenuous to act otherwise, especially when you then want to use it as a stick to beat Rosas with.

I would not hold it against Rosas for passing on trading two first round picks for Markkanen.

Is Chicago's end game to have the Finnish international sign the QO?

Maybe. Apparently the relationship is at a point that they don’t care if he walks.

If nothing materialises they might pull the QO entirely.

[Baseline81]

Maybe. Apparently the relationship is at a point that they don’t care if he walks.

If nothing materialises they might pull the QO entirely.

I cannot see that happening. I believe the reason the Bulls are asking for a first round pick is because they owe one more to Orlando and a future one to San Antonio in the DeRozan S&T. Chicago likely wants an asset back in return.

[shangrila]

Maybe. Apparently the relationship is at a point that they don’t care if he walks.

If nothing materialises they might pull the QO entirely.

I cannot see that happening. I believe the reason the Bulls are asking for a first round pick is because they owe one more to Orlando and a future one to San Antonio in the DeRozan S&T. Chicago likely wants an asset back in return.

Sure, I get that’s why they’re asking.

But if it doesn’t pan out I don’t think they want a potential malcontent on the roster. And those reports are suggesting the relationship there is toxic.

[Klomp]

I think it's safe to say PF requires the most attention (or C if you believe Towns can slide to PF).

I am on record as willing to wait until the start of the season, but as each day passes, my concern grows. One cannot continue to kick the "flexibility" can too far down the road.

Domejandro listed next year's FA class. The outcome is likely to be the same as this summer -- miss out due to lack of cap space. After a few names, it's underwhelming.

Despite what some may think, Markkanen would be an upgrade to the position. He desires a fresh start away from Chicago. The move would not require dealing the proverbial farm.

I don't think the free agent list is what they are looking at, but rather looking at the trade market and forecasting who might be available and attainable..

[jscott]

According to reports it would.

Chicago wants a 1st and no salary, meaning we’d need to find a 3rd team to take the 12mil ish in matching salary for Lauri’s desired 15mil contract, which costs one more 1st at minimum.

So 2 1sts for Lauri. You want to pay that? I’d rather swap expiring a and a 1st for Bertans if we’re going down that road.

The reports may be true, but I highly doubt there is a team willing to pay that price.

So? That doesn’t change the asking price.

Therefore, that’s the cost. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. But it’s disingenuous to act otherwise, especially when you then want to use it as a stick to beat Rosas with.

Umm.. no. The asking price is the asking price, not the cost.

Wait to see what someone pays. That’s the cost.

[shangrila]

The reports may be true, but I highly doubt there is a team willing to pay that price.

So? That doesn’t change the asking price.

Therefore, that’s the cost. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. But it’s disingenuous to act otherwise, especially when you then want to use it as a stick to beat Rosas with.

Umm.. no. The asking price is the asking price, not the cost.

Wait to see what someone pays. That’s the cost.

Semantics.

The point is you can’t say “well I’d only pay this much so since Rosas didn’t pull a deal off despite Chicago demanding more he’s an idiot”.

For now the cost is the asking price.