Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls?

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Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls?

The Knicks
123
49%
The Bulls
126
51%
 
Total votes: 249

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Re: Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls? 

Post#41 » by Nazrmohamed » Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:43 am

iqureshi wrote:as a long times bulls fan, the problem with the knicks is Thibs. He takes every ounce of talent a team has, and gets them to try hard and buy in to his system. Playoff time comes, and there is no extra gear for them to take it to. Thibs has taken a player like Randle and gotten him to overachieve, just like he turned Noah into a first team center.

On a side note, i think with actual talent, Bulls have 3 all stars (Derozen would've been an all star in the east), vs the Knicks one. Plus 2 players in PW and Ball who could be all stars in 4/5 years. Could be talking out of my Arse, but i wouldn't be surprised if the Bulls have a top 3 seed. Very few weaknesses, and their defense will be better then most expect.


It's hard for me as a Knicks fan cuz I got to watch that happen first hand but then a part of me says, they wouldn't have even been in position to get that thrashing had it not been for Thibs from a total season standing POV but then on a micro level, I wonder if certain players on an individual would've played as well without Thibs. Would Julius Randle even be getting this level of respect without Thibs and how he allows him to play?

Lastly, and I've wondered this when people wonder how far we'll regress next yr.........you just spun it negatively but I expect them to do the same thing next yr. And by doing the same thing technically we aren't learning our lesson by your standards, yet that's what it's gonna take, right? I just dont know how to hate a coach who gets his team to play hard. Or better yet how do you go backwards from there and those behaviors. Do you say "hey guys, in order for us to save enough gas for the playoffs I want yall to half ass it this time around".
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Re: Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls? 

Post#42 » by MaxZaslofskyJr » Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:44 am

close but the difference maker is actually Thibs. What future can the NYK have? He'll burn them out.
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Re: Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls? 

Post#43 » by DaGawd » Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:47 am

Loll the Thibs narrative is ass and unproven
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Re: Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls? 

Post#44 » by FreeSpiritNY » Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:59 am

Sothron wrote:The Bulls have the two best players on their team in Lavine and Vuc. This is a pretty close one tbh. The Knicks have really locked into a 5-8 seed and so have the Bulls with this past offseason. I like the Bulls a little more.



Vuc is not better than randel. Who made the all nba team again last year and all star? Who scored more? Who had better defense?

I’m down on randel because of that horrid playoff performance but that slander is something I had to comment on.

Lavine is the better player of two teams. Knicks have the better prospects along with a deeper bench snd team


Lonzo 13ppg / Coby white 15 ppg (31 mpg when starter)
Lavine 27.1 ppg / Caruso 6ppg
Demar 21ppg / Patrick Williams 9.2
Christine felcio 1 ppg / no back up
Vuc 23 ppg /tony Bradley 7.1ppg


Kemba walker 19.3 ppg / Derrick rose 15 ppg
Rj barret 17.6 ppg / quickley 13.4 ppg
Fournier 17.1 ppg / burks 12.7 ppg / bacon 11 ppg
Julius randel 24.1 ppg/ obi 8 ppg
Mitchel Robinson 8.3 ppg / nerlens 5ppg


Starting line up Knicks 87ppg
Starting line up bulls 86ppg (subject to change due to unknown starting 4

bench Knicks 53 ppg
Bench Bulls 42 ppg
( I added a random amount 5 ppg for the empty spot)

So if we go by PPG knicks on paper score more ( as of now)
If we go by better defense on paper knicks are way better at every position other than PG

If we go by better young talent RJ, Quickley, Mitch & obi are better than lauri and coby, Williams

Williams and obi are tied.. but I’ll give Williams the nudge due to age. ( I personally thing he is going to be pan out and be good)


I’m not being a ass just going off of stats.

(quickley obi & RJ are all going to improve this year)

Lonzo as the third fiddle scored 13ppg he will be the 4th fiddle this year ( still young can still improve)


4 seed with payton and bullocks as starting pg & Sf
We only improved our depth along with our starters.

Since rose joined the team we won 67% of games last year.

It will be exciting i'm not definitively saying any team is better than the other yet but I will say it will be exciting to maybe get a rivalry back. I will say based on what was wrote here the knicks. But this isn't definitely. A lot of asterisk that come with both these teams.

A kemba and walker ( if healthy is the best PG rotation in the league) <not individualy but almost 0 drop off when one subs the other


Bulls lost key players: Satoransky, Fariq & young

Knicks Gained by getting rid of: Frank & elfred & improving from bullocks to Fournier

Additions: Kemba, Fournier & Bacon
Additions: Demarr, Lonzo & caruso


The only drop I expect the knicks is from the #1 Defense to like 7-10
The bulls dont have as deep as a team but will at a high pace.







Fariq/young/ satoransky <———- traded away this season
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Re: Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls? 

Post#45 » by bronxknicksfan1 » Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:59 am

MrSparkle wrote:Who the hell are the Knicks' closers? Rose and Burks? They were in 2 close games against the Hawks and got blown out of 3.

It'll be interesting to see where they go. Little upgrade with Fournier, lot of hope with Barrett, but in the end, I really don't think a Thibs overachiever is a FA destination. They're gonna be capped out anyway after everyone's extensions kick in.

The Bulls' FRP situation is a alarming, but we've got a lot more offensive players and creators. Besides Rose, I don't know who's making plays in May.

Not exactly a battle of Godzilla and King Kong, but it'll be nice to have a little rivalry again. They're all defense, we're all offense.


Fournier isn't a little upgrade. Neither is Kemba/Rose at the PG. We started last year with a PG rotation of Elfrid Payton, Dennis Smith Jr. and Frank Ntilikina and Reggie Bullock as our starting SF. The upgrades to our offense are immense. Add another year of improvement from Randle, RJ, IQ and Mitch...this team will be better than they were last year and with all those team friendly deals, they'll be in play for superstars when the time comes.
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Re: Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls? 

Post#46 » by bronxknicksfan1 » Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:08 am

Sothron wrote:
gorz wrote:
Sothron wrote:The Bulls have the two best players on their team in Lavine and Vuc. This is a pretty close one tbh. The Knicks have really locked into a 5-8 seed and so have the Bulls with this past offseason. I like the Bulls a little more.




Lavine and Vuc are not better than Randle. Both lavine and vucevic are one dimensional players. Randle is one of the most versatile all around players in the league capable of 20-25 ppg 9-10 reb and 4-5 assists a night with improved defense. If we switched out randles name and put simmons name next to that statline we would be talking about him as a 8 player in the league.


Randle has had one good season under his belt. Lavine and Vuc have several. I would rather have those two than Randle on my team. I'm not saying Randle is a bad player because he's not. He's an AS player. So are Lavine and Vuc. The Bulls have two AS players I rate both higher than Randle. I rate the Bulls a little higher than Knicks accordingly.


This isn't Randle's first good season. Randle is also a better defender than either Lavine or Vuc while putting up similar offensive numbers. Not to say he's better than Lavine and Vuc, but neither of them are better than him. They're in the same realm.
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Re: Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls? 

Post#47 » by Rockazoids » Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:10 am

Sothron wrote:
Randle has had one good season under his belt. Lavine and Vuc have several. I would rather have those two than Randle on my team. I'm not saying Randle is a bad player because he's not. He's an AS player. So are Lavine and Vuc. The Bulls have two AS players I rate both higher than Randle. I rate the Bulls a little higher than Knicks accordingly.

Well I rate the All-NBA 2nd Team, MIP award winner higher than both them. Maybe Lavine will win 4 games in a roll in a NBA
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You left off Patrick Williams, last years' 4th overall pick. He started the whole season and played pretty well but verdict is still out on him (he's only 19). He'll likely start at the 4 btw.


I didn't really think he was worth mentioning yet. 9 ppg 4.5 rpg 10.53PER

To be fair people love Mitchell Robinson too and say he's an all star and I didn't exactly heavily sell him and he's giving you 8 and 8 on 17 per with his high block rate.

But yeah Patrick Williams is the exact type of player as to why I didn't label Robinson as a core part of the comparison.


It’s actually quite silly to intentionally exclude a top 5 pick who is 19 years old, in a discussion as to what team may or may not have a brighter future. PW showed flashes of elite defense ability, 2nd team all rookie and was invited to participate in Team USA’s camp.

Similarly, you should include the other teams’ younger players. Saying Patrick Williams averaging 10 and 5 isn’t worth mentioning is a very lazy argument.

Immanuel Quickley & Obi Toppinboth were there and that's nothing to hang your hat on.
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Re: Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls? 

Post#48 » by MrSparkle » Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:26 am

bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:Who the hell are the Knicks' closers? Rose and Burks? They were in 2 close games against the Hawks and got blown out of 3.

It'll be interesting to see where they go. Little upgrade with Fournier, lot of hope with Barrett, but in the end, I really don't think a Thibs overachiever is a FA destination. They're gonna be capped out anyway after everyone's extensions kick in.

The Bulls' FRP situation is a alarming, but we've got a lot more offensive players and creators. Besides Rose, I don't know who's making plays in May.

Not exactly a battle of Godzilla and King Kong, but it'll be nice to have a little rivalry again. They're all defense, we're all offense.


Fournier isn't a little upgrade. Neither is Kemba/Rose at the PG. We started last year with a PG rotation of Elfrid Payton, Dennis Smith Jr. and Frank Ntilikina and Reggie Bullock as our starting SF. The upgrades to our offense are immense. Add another year of improvement from Randle, RJ, IQ and Mitch...this team will be better than they were last year and with all those team friendly deals, they'll be in play for superstars when the time comes.


Sure- but whatever you do, don't buy too much Kemba/Fournier koolaid.
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Re: Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls? 

Post#49 » by BostonCouchGM » Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:27 am

Knicks had incredible drafts (minus Toppin) the past two drafts and have a very deep team filled with high floor guys. It should result in top 5 seeds going forward. I love Zo and Williams but unless LaVine commits to defense, they’ll be at best fighting for the last seeds.
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Re: Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls? 

Post#50 » by bronxknicksfan1 » Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:43 am

MrSparkle wrote:
bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:Who the hell are the Knicks' closers? Rose and Burks? They were in 2 close games against the Hawks and got blown out of 3.

It'll be interesting to see where they go. Little upgrade with Fournier, lot of hope with Barrett, but in the end, I really don't think a Thibs overachiever is a FA destination. They're gonna be capped out anyway after everyone's extensions kick in.

The Bulls' FRP situation is a alarming, but we've got a lot more offensive players and creators. Besides Rose, I don't know who's making plays in May.

Not exactly a battle of Godzilla and King Kong, but it'll be nice to have a little rivalry again. They're all defense, we're all offense.


Fournier isn't a little upgrade. Neither is Kemba/Rose at the PG. We started last year with a PG rotation of Elfrid Payton, Dennis Smith Jr. and Frank Ntilikina and Reggie Bullock as our starting SF. The upgrades to our offense are immense. Add another year of improvement from Randle, RJ, IQ and Mitch...this team will be better than they were last year and with all those team friendly deals, they'll be in play for superstars when the time comes.


Sure- but whatever you do, don't buy too much Kemba/Fournier koolaid.


Better than having Elf/Bullock...so I'll take that easily.
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Re: Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls? 

Post#51 » by jkvonny » Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:00 am

Why not have BOTH in your poll? OP.

I voted Knicks, based on short term. Immediate.

Long term? Both teams have a bright future IMO.
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Re: Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls? 

Post#52 » by LAL1947 » Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:01 am

I think a better question is...

Will a reconstructed New York or Chicago make it to a final before Houston does? :P
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Re: Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls? 

Post#53 » by GusFring » Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:46 pm

DaGawd wrote:Loll the Thibs narrative is ass and unproven


Unproven? He's not a good playoff coach, bad with adjustments, his season squads look elite then usually shrivel. Losing to a cavs without love stands out especially as they were running with Butler who was becoming a superstar, rose/noah/pau who were still all productive.
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Re: Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls? 

Post#54 » by Johnny Bball » Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:06 pm

Look I don't want to ruin anyone's day here, but the Bulls are not going to be good. they will beat bad teams easily by outscoring them but will stop nobody. At best they are a first round exit. I think the Knicks have a slightly higher upside.
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Re: Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls? 

Post#55 » by Wingy » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:19 pm

I'm a Bulls fan (surely there's some bias), and not worth spending that much brain power on this (for me) since it seems close. For "future" - Knicks do have more picks/cap flexibility. Picks are going to be middling, so they're essentially lottery tickets, and cashing them in on a true star is always questionable (ask the Bulls).

One thing that differentiates my view of the question is that the Knick's most valuable young prospect in RJ has never done anything for me. I think he's incredibly overrated, and the Knicks would be wise to cash in ASAP before that "potential" shine rubs off. I'd use him, and some picks to aim for an all star to pair w/Randle. With two all stars in place, and being NY, the cap flexibility can then be used to grab that 3rd star.

Regardless, really fun seeing both teams relevant again. Still root for Thibs/Rose/Taj big time...so for once I'm happy to see the Knicks do well whenever they're not playing us.
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Re: Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls? 

Post#56 » by Wingy » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:23 pm

GusFring wrote:
DaGawd wrote:Loll the Thibs narrative is ass and unproven


Unproven? He's not a good playoff coach, bad with adjustments, his season squads look elite then usually shrivel. Losing to a cavs without love stands out especially as they were running with Butler who was becoming a superstar, rose/noah/pau who were still all productive.


As a fellow Bulls fan....just no. They look elite exactly because he is a great coach, and they fall short in the playoffs due to having less talent, and at that point the other teams are also playing their hardest.

Butler was not yet at his star level in that series, and you know it. Post injury-Rose, last productive years Gasol - still very good players indeed - but not as good as their name brands at that particular time.

They lost because of prime Lebron James, not because of Tom Thibodeau.
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Re: Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls? 

Post#57 » by FreeSpiritNY » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:28 pm

:banghead:
GusFring wrote:
DaGawd wrote:Loll the Thibs narrative is ass and unproven


Unproven? He's not a good playoff coach, bad with adjustments, his season squads look elite then usually shrivel. Losing to a cavs without love stands out especially as they were running with Butler who was becoming a superstar, rose/noah/pau who were still all productive.



What adjustment did you want him to make? Please explain to me. The knock on him use to be oh well the offense doesn’t shoot threes we shot s good clip last year we’re top 3%

Did you want him to put payton back in?

Did you want him to start frank?

Like I don’t get the adjustment. Talent wise we were bottom of the leauge last year
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Re: Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls? 

Post#58 » by Soulyss » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:48 pm

Bulls are more talented (*this year) as constructed... both should be playoff teams, neither are contenders.
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Re: Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls? 

Post#59 » by cool007 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:51 pm

IMO, both are neck and neck with each other. Only time will tell.

One thing for sure that I love to see the rivalry between Bulls and Knicks again and a lot more national tv games against each other. Big market teams, huge passionate fan base/media etc and would be great for the league when both make playoffs and possibly face each other in the playoffs.

Can not wait to see that this coming season and may the best team wins.
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Re: Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls? 

Post#60 » by Lunartic » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:57 pm

bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
Sothron wrote:
gorz wrote:


Lavine and Vuc are not better than Randle. Both lavine and vucevic are one dimensional players. Randle is one of the most versatile all around players in the league capable of 20-25 ppg 9-10 reb and 4-5 assists a night with improved defense. If we switched out randles name and put simmons name next to that statline we would be talking about him as a 8 player in the league.


Randle has had one good season under his belt. Lavine and Vuc have several. I would rather have those two than Randle on my team. I'm not saying Randle is a bad player because he's not. He's an AS player. So are Lavine and Vuc. The Bulls have two AS players I rate both higher than Randle. I rate the Bulls a little higher than Knicks accordingly.


This isn't Randle's first good season. Randle is also a better defender than either Lavine or Vuc while putting up similar offensive numbers. Not to say he's better than Lavine and Vuc, but neither of them are better than him. They're in the same realm.


I agree that defense matters and Randle is better than Vuc.

He's nowhere near Zach in terms of scoring ability though. His best scoring year was this past year and he put up 24ppg on .567 ts vs Zach putting up 27 ppg on .634 ts, huge gulf in efficiency despite higher volume from Zach.

Admittedly, Zach didn't make the playoffs but Randle put together an all time atrocious offensive performance - 18ppg on .420TS.

As of now, most teams would much rather have Lavine over Randle.

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