Build a Franchise- Season 5 Discussion (Free Agency Edition)- Free Agency schedule on page 82

[Capn'O]

Public spreadsheet seems to have widespread support.

I prefer the private process because it's a more interesting process going blind but for the good of the game going forward... we need some level of automation to keep our commish with us. I'm willing to concede that preference to get there. Running this game isn't something that anyone would do and we need to get to a place where its continuance is manageable.

[mpharris36]

For example I will use my team and melo's team for next year FA class

I have one potential FA to manage next year in Curry. If I get into a bidding war with someone maybe there is a breaking point where I don't want to go higher on Curry but maybe pivot to another big time player but I would have no idea where even that bidding is at for that player. But at least its only one spot to fill.

Now take Melo. Dude has a team full of stars. Imagine him sending his initial bids which all could be very fair offers but he doesn't get one response from bish. I would be **** bricks...how much higher do I have to go on everyone to even get a response back. I don't think he should be in a position to have to panic and be that restricted that he would have to considerably raise the offer on a lot of guys just to see where the bidding is.

My point is I probably can manage 1 FA but if you have 6-7-8 big pieces in play the minute you stop getting responses that you are close you either have to arbitrarily raise your offer considerable just to make sure you stay involved or pivot away. I just see that as too restrictive personally. I would rather know exactly where my 6-8 FA are and plan accordingly.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Scared is a very strong word. Considering nobody has a bigger issue with the weirdo than me, Ima give you time to clarify before I get in my bag.

I know you have legit issues. But what reason would people be against a spreadsheet or something like that?

This system is just much more restrictive, which I dont think is good. Out of all the options just feels like this is the worst one. Your basically screwed if you can't get your bids in during these certain windows

I'm not disagreeing with you. This was definitely not my first choice but the timing is really no different then past years. Actually opens things up a bit. If you can't be online from 6-7, you can still bid on players at 8, 10 and 12 before the earliest they will sign with anyone. If you can't be online at all in the AM then nothing really is different then the old system where players could conceivably have signed starting at 12PM. This hopefully opens things up for people as far as timing and placing bids goes.

For this free agent class it seems fine.

For a larger free agent class is where i think there could be some issues, unless we stagger. Seems like too much is happening all at once in a short period of time for both you and us...especially if we are operating blind.

[El Poochio]

mpharris its not that serious bro use fa just to try to get some steals in and build your team through trades and draft

[mpharris36]

I know you have legit issues. But what reason would people be against a spreadsheet or something like that?

This system is just much more restrictive, which I dont think is good. Out of all the options just feels like this is the worst one. Your basically screwed if you can't get your bids in during these certain windows

I'm not disagreeing with you. This was definitely not my first choice but the timing is really no different then past years. Actually opens things up a bit. If you can't be online from 6-7, you can still bid on players at 8, 10 and 12 before the earliest they will sign with anyone. If you can't be online at all in the AM then nothing really is different then the old system where players could conceivably have signed starting at 12PM. This hopefully opens things up for people as far as timing and placing bids goes.

For this free agent class it seems fine.

For a larger free agent class is where i think there could be some issues, unless we stagger. Seems like too much is happening all at once in a short period of time for both you and us...especially if we are operating blind.

Yeah if someone jumps out with a ridiculous 4 year $500 offer for someone. You might be at 4 years $350 to start. 4 years $400 in the next window. And 4 years $430 in the next window and never even get a response back once before the player signs.

If I knew someone went 4 years $500 I could have used the other 6 hours to properly pivot instead of chasing an offer I can't even match. I don't think $350, $400, and $430 are even bad faith bids. Someone might have just decided to overpay like a mofo and I now I was chasing a guy and spending time chasing someone I shouldn't have been doing because of some other GM getting reckless.

[3toheadmelo]

For example I will use my team and melo's team for next year FA class

I have one potential FA to manage next year in Curry. If I get into a bidding war with someone maybe there is a breaking point where I don't want to go higher on Curry but maybe pivot to another big time player but I would have no idea where even that bidding is at for that player. But at least its only one spot to fill.

Now take Melo. Dude has a team full of stars. Imagine him sending his initial bids which all could be very fair offers but he doesn't get one response from bish. I would be **** bricks...how much higher do I have to go on everyone to even get a response back. I don't think he should be in a position to have to panic and be that restricted that he would have to considerably raise the offer on a lot of guys just to see where the bidding is.

My point is I probably can manage 1 FA but if you have 6-7-8 big pieces in play the minute you stop getting responses that you are close you either have to arbitrarily raise your offer considerable just to make sure you stay involved or pivot away. I just see that as too restrictive personally. I would rather know exactly where my 6-8 FA are and plan accordingly.

If I didn’t get any response then that means someone is overpaying my players big time and I would let them hold the bag. I would simply move on and chase other free agents

[Smash3]

I think this is a good solution, we really don't need a 4-5 page discussion on spreadsheets again

[mpharris36]

For example I will use my team and melo's team for next year FA class

I have one potential FA to manage next year in Curry. If I get into a bidding war with someone maybe there is a breaking point where I don't want to go higher on Curry but maybe pivot to another big time player but I would have no idea where even that bidding is at for that player. But at least its only one spot to fill.

Now take Melo. Dude has a team full of stars. Imagine him sending his initial bids which all could be very fair offers but he doesn't get one response from bish. I would be **** bricks...how much higher do I have to go on everyone to even get a response back. I don't think he should be in a position to have to panic and be that restricted that he would have to considerably raise the offer on a lot of guys just to see where the bidding is.

My point is I probably can manage 1 FA but if you have 6-7-8 big pieces in play the minute you stop getting responses that you are close you either have to arbitrarily raise your offer considerable just to make sure you stay involved or pivot away. I just see that as too restrictive personally. I would rather know exactly where my 6-8 FA are and plan accordingly.

If I didn’t get any response then that means someone is overpaying my players big time and I would let them hold the bag. I would simply move on and chase other free agents

I agree but you might spend maybe 1 or 2 FA window periods just seeing how far they went which could be 4-6 hours of precious time. Then you have to pivot later in the game and just throw offers at other guys and hope you are in that window as well.

Personally if someone came out right out of the bat with 4 years $600 of curry lets just say something ridiculous. I would rather know that then have to chase a shadow for a few hours.

[mpharris36]

mpharris its not that serious bro use fa just to try to get some steals in and build your team through trades and draft

its a discussion thread I already said I don't mind giving it a shot. Its just my opinion.

[Smash3]

For example I will use my team and melo's team for next year FA class

I have one potential FA to manage next year in Curry. If I get into a bidding war with someone maybe there is a breaking point where I don't want to go higher on Curry but maybe pivot to another big time player but I would have no idea where even that bidding is at for that player. But at least its only one spot to fill.

Now take Melo. Dude has a team full of stars. Imagine him sending his initial bids which all could be very fair offers but he doesn't get one response from bish. I would be **** bricks...how much higher do I have to go on everyone to even get a response back. I don't think he should be in a position to have to panic and be that restricted that he would have to considerably raise the offer on a lot of guys just to see where the bidding is.

My point is I probably can manage 1 FA but if you have 6-7-8 big pieces in play the minute you stop getting responses that you are close you either have to arbitrarily raise your offer considerable just to make sure you stay involved or pivot away. I just see that as too restrictive personally. I would rather know exactly where my 6-8 FA are and plan accordingly.

If I didn’t get any response then that means someone is overpaying my players big time and I would let them hold the bag. I would simply move on and chase other free agents

Yup it's really not that complicated. Stop nickel-and-diming and make an offer you're comfortable with, if you don't hear back it's time to move on

[3toheadmelo]

For example I will use my team and melo's team for next year FA class

I have one potential FA to manage next year in Curry. If I get into a bidding war with someone maybe there is a breaking point where I don't want to go higher on Curry but maybe pivot to another big time player but I would have no idea where even that bidding is at for that player. But at least its only one spot to fill.

Now take Melo. Dude has a team full of stars. Imagine him sending his initial bids which all could be very fair offers but he doesn't get one response from bish. I would be **** bricks...how much higher do I have to go on everyone to even get a response back. I don't think he should be in a position to have to panic and be that restricted that he would have to considerably raise the offer on a lot of guys just to see where the bidding is.

My point is I probably can manage 1 FA but if you have 6-7-8 big pieces in play the minute you stop getting responses that you are close you either have to arbitrarily raise your offer considerable just to make sure you stay involved or pivot away. I just see that as too restrictive personally. I would rather know exactly where my 6-8 FA are and plan accordingly.

If I didn’t get any response then that means someone is overpaying my players big time and I would let them hold the bag. I would simply move on and chase other free agents

I agree but you might spend maybe 1 or 2 FA window periods just seeing how far they went which could be 4-6 hours of precious time. Then you have to pivot later in the game and just throw offers at other guys and hope you are in that window as well.

Personally if someone came out right out of the bat with 4 years $600 of curry lets just say something ridiculous. I would rather know that then have to chase a shadow for a few hours.

Don’t worry I have a plan

[mpharris36]

For example I will use my team and melo's team for next year FA class

I have one potential FA to manage next year in Curry. If I get into a bidding war with someone maybe there is a breaking point where I don't want to go higher on Curry but maybe pivot to another big time player but I would have no idea where even that bidding is at for that player. But at least its only one spot to fill.

Now take Melo. Dude has a team full of stars. Imagine him sending his initial bids which all could be very fair offers but he doesn't get one response from bish. I would be **** bricks...how much higher do I have to go on everyone to even get a response back. I don't think he should be in a position to have to panic and be that restricted that he would have to considerably raise the offer on a lot of guys just to see where the bidding is.

My point is I probably can manage 1 FA but if you have 6-7-8 big pieces in play the minute you stop getting responses that you are close you either have to arbitrarily raise your offer considerable just to make sure you stay involved or pivot away. I just see that as too restrictive personally. I would rather know exactly where my 6-8 FA are and plan accordingly.

If I didn’t get any response then that means someone is overpaying my players big time and I would let them hold the bag. I would simply move on and chase other free agents

Yup it's really not that complicated. Stop nickel-and-diming and make an offer you're comfortable with, if you don't hear back it's time to move on

what you call Nickle and diming I might not. Everyone operates differently and it doesn't mean everyone operates in bad faith. They might just have to deal with someone else overpaying and you may need time to deal with that.

No one ever goes into a negotiation and gives there best a final. Thats generally not how transactions work. Also FA will be so quick if everyone comes out with best and final. We deal with a long offseason I don't want FA to be done with in one weekend. Otherwise we will be sitting on our hands waiting for the season to start it should be longer than that.

[Deeeez Knicks]

If I didn’t get any response then that means someone is overpaying my players big time and I would let them hold the bag. I would simply move on and chase other free agents

Yup it's really not that complicated. Stop nickel-and-diming and make an offer you're comfortable with, if you don't hear back it's time to move on

what you call Nickle and diming I might not. Everyone operates differently and it doesn't mean everyone operates in bad faith. They might just have to deal with someone else overpaying and you may need time to deal with that.

No one ever goes into a negotiation and gives there best a final. Thats generally not how transactions work. Also FA will be so quick if everyone comes out with best and final. We deal with a long offseason I don't want FA to be done with in one weekend. Otherwise we will be sitting on our hands waiting for the season to start it should be longer than that.

There will be more steals under this system

[Capn'O]

No one ever goes into a negotiation and gives there best a final.

Sort of an aside, but people operate in different ways in negotiations. Most of the trades I complete are pretty close when they come in or go out. I don't think this is even surprising or helpful news to opposing GMs. Most know there's not much haggling to be had here. I have an idea of what would be wanted and conceded and try to suss a lot of it out before making an offer. Have operated similarly in FA. Eliminate phony suitors.

It would probably be different if I were trying to collect incoming picks at this point.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I'm not disagreeing with you. This was definitely not my first choice but the timing is really no different then past years. Actually opens things up a bit. If you can't be online from 6-7, you can still bid on players at 8, 10 and 12 before the earliest they will sign with anyone. If you can't be online at all in the AM then nothing really is different then the old system where players could conceivably have signed starting at 12PM. This hopefully opens things up for people as far as timing and placing bids goes.

For this free agent class it seems fine.

For a larger free agent class is where i think there could be some issues, unless we stagger. Seems like too much is happening all at once in a short period of time for both you and us...especially if we are operating blind.

Yeah if someone jumps out with a ridiculous 4 year $500 offer for someone. You might be at 4 years $350 to start. 4 years $400 in the next window. And 4 years $430 in the next window and never even get a response back once before the player signs.

If I knew someone went 4 years $500 I could have used the other 6 hours to properly pivot instead of chasing an offer I can't even match. I don't think $350, $400, and $430 are even bad faith bids. Someone might have just decided to overpay like a mofo and I now I was chasing a guy and spending time chasing someone I shouldn't have been doing because of some other GM getting reckless.

Bid suppression. Less bids, less info, more restrictive. This is like gerrymandering

But i def understand we need a way to help bish out

[Smash3]

If I didn’t get any response then that means someone is overpaying my players big time and I would let them hold the bag. I would simply move on and chase other free agents

Yup it's really not that complicated. Stop nickel-and-diming and make an offer you're comfortable with, if you don't hear back it's time to move on

what you call Nickle and diming I might not. Everyone operates differently and it doesn't mean everyone operates in bad faith. They might just have to deal with someone else overpaying and you may need time to deal with that.

No one ever goes into a negotiation and gives there best a final. Thats generally not how transactions work. Also FA will be so quick if everyone comes out with best and final. We deal with a long offseason I don't want FA to be done with in one weekend. Otherwise we will be sitting on our hands waiting for the season to start it should be longer than that.

You're free to operate and negotiate whatever way you want in this system, but making a reasonable offer will make the process smoother. FA has always lasted a couple of days in BAF I don't see why we should artificially prolong this years FA, I am sure next years FA will last a lot longer given the pool of players though.

[mpharris36]

There will be more steals under this system

more steals and more overpays where you are just arbitrarily raising a bid essentially bidding against yourself. Thats why its restrictive. I mentioned to 2010 before that competitive balance is important to keep excitement up. I know some dont care but GM turnover was a major concern this year and if you have completive imbalance where some teams are stuck with bad contracts you have a lot of turnover.

Now we seem to be back to a strong core of guys but lets not act like there were times we thought this was dying out. Creating more competitive imbalance risks that too.

[bishnykfan]

I know you have legit issues. But what reason would people be against a spreadsheet or something like that?

This system is just much more restrictive, which I dont think is good. Out of all the options just feels like this is the worst one. Your basically screwed if you can't get your bids in during these certain windows

I'm not disagreeing with you. This was definitely not my first choice but the timing is really no different then past years. Actually opens things up a bit. If you can't be online from 6-7, you can still bid on players at 8, 10 and 12 before the earliest they will sign with anyone. If you can't be online at all in the AM then nothing really is different then the old system where players could conceivably have signed starting at 12PM. This hopefully opens things up for people as far as timing and placing bids goes.

For this free agent class it seems fine.

For a larger free agent class is where i think there could be some issues, unless we stagger. Seems like too much is happening all at once in a short period of time for both you and us...especially if we are operating blind.

I hear what you're saying and again don't disagree. We could absolutely open up the windows a bit more to drag things out if that works for people. Make the bidding windows 2 hours? My only concern is that as it is this will basically take a couple of days. I planned on the 23rd because I have that Sunday and Monday off from work so I could devote a couple of days consecutively to the craziness that is FA. If we go beyond that and I go back to work then things really get screwed up when I can't be at the computer for 18 straight hours.

If the one hour windows are not enough though, we could discuss elongating the entire FA process including how long players will be on the clock. I'm definitely ok with adjusting that if there is a majority of people who think that the one hour window is not enough.

As for mph's main concern regarding not being able to pivot on players without inquiries...I would be open to allowing a team to inquiry about one player that they are not currently bidding on per PM starting at 10AM if that helps. Just need to keep the number of PM's I receive and send down so adding a player of interest to each PM starting two bidding blocks before a player can sign should help in that regard for teams who have to make difficult decisions on multiple players.

[Slicin N Dicin]

Y'all should've just used the spreadsheet

[bishnykfan]

I'm not disagreeing with you. This was definitely not my first choice but the timing is really no different then past years. Actually opens things up a bit. If you can't be online from 6-7, you can still bid on players at 8, 10 and 12 before the earliest they will sign with anyone. If you can't be online at all in the AM then nothing really is different then the old system where players could conceivably have signed starting at 12PM. This hopefully opens things up for people as far as timing and placing bids goes.

For this free agent class it seems fine.

For a larger free agent class is where i think there could be some issues, unless we stagger. Seems like too much is happening all at once in a short period of time for both you and us...especially if we are operating blind.

Yeah if someone jumps out with a ridiculous 4 year $500 offer for someone. You might be at 4 years $350 to start. 4 years $400 in the next window. And 4 years $430 in the next window and never even get a response back once before the player signs.

If I knew someone went 4 years $500 I could have used the other 6 hours to properly pivot instead of chasing an offer I can't even match. I don't think $350, $400, and $430 are even bad faith bids. Someone might have just decided to overpay like a mofo and I now I was chasing a guy and spending time chasing someone I shouldn't have been doing because of some other GM getting reckless.

In this scenario your bids are not bad faith bids. But they were so blown away by the initial bid from the other team that the player signs without getting back to you. I don't see the issue with that? One team comes along and blows a FA out of the water they deserve that player without having to worry about another team upping their bid by $1 at the last minute.

As for the pivoting...there would be nothing against you submitting multiple bids just as teams have done in years past.


Player A- $350/4 years
Player B- $310/4 years
Player C- $225/4 years
Player D- $150/4 years

There is nothing stopping a team from submitting a bid like this if they choose. If player A has another bid at $500/4 then I move to player B and you won't hear about A. If that player B has another bid at $315/4 years, you get a response letting you know you're in the ballpark for future bidding windows. If you lead on player C you will know it because you will get a response. If leading on player C makes player D's offer void because it will put you over the cap, you will know that too because you can manage your own cap.

I understand what you're saying about fits and how certain players fit better with others but this system will force teams to prioritize the players they want early. It may not give you the perfect amount of time to pivot off of certain players but FA in the past has not always done that either. You will still get hours (minimum of three bidding periods to up your bids and restart a players clock before he will sign). If you can't get in the ballpark in those periods, then why should you get the opportunity to sign a player who another team so clearly wants more than you?