Bulls Summer League

[bad knees]

Want to give kudos to the Bulls coaching staff who have made this years' SL into the "Give Pat practices doing everything on offence against live competition" bootcamp. Seriously, very smart! Pat is the only real asset we're focused on this year. Obviously, this isn't going to be Pat's role during the season and it is pushing him out of his comfort zone. It's really giving him some practical experience that is hard to replicate in practice, that he won't easily get in games next season, and will give him a few months to work on key areas.

The one downside to Pat playing so much at PF is that we aren't seeing much of Baxter. I really hope he gets our 2nd 2-way contract. I actually want Thompson to get the other one instead of Dotson.

I don't get the fascination with Baxter. I mean, I get it in the sense that someone was able to put together an impressive but short highlight film demonstrating that he can jump and can shoot 3's. But his college stats are distinctly unimpressive. He was barely a positive net player at Morgan State - a pretty weak program - in his fourth year of playing. With all his athletic ability, he had a -1.2 DBPM. That level of performance, at that age, against MEAC competition, suggests to me that Baxter has a very slim chance of having any future in the NBA.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/troy-baxter-1.html

[sco]

Want to give kudos to the Bulls coaching staff who have made this years' SL into the "Give Pat practices doing everything on offence against live competition" bootcamp. Seriously, very smart! Pat is the only real asset we're focused on this year. Obviously, this isn't going to be Pat's role during the season and it is pushing him out of his comfort zone. It's really giving him some practical experience that is hard to replicate in practice, that he won't easily get in games next season, and will give him a few months to work on key areas.

The one downside to Pat playing so much at PF is that we aren't seeing much of Baxter. I really hope he gets our 2nd 2-way contract. I actually want Thompson to get the other one instead of Dotson.

I don't get the fascination with Baxter. I mean, I get it in the sense that someone was able to put together an impressive but short highlight film demonstrating that he can jump and can shoot 3's. But his college stats are distinctly unimpressive. He was barely a positive net player at Morgan State - a pretty weak program - in his fourth year of playing. With all his athletic ability, he had a -1.2 DBPM. That level of performance, at that age, against MEAC competition, suggests to me that Baxter has a very slim chance of having any future in the NBA.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/troy-baxter-1.html

Seems to be a guy with freak athleticism, shot blocking skill and 3pt range...worth a season on 2-way on the off chance he can learn to play NBA basketball...what's the opportunity cost?

[bad knees]

The one downside to Pat playing so much at PF is that we aren't seeing much of Baxter. I really hope he gets our 2nd 2-way contract. I actually want Thompson to get the other one instead of Dotson.

I don't get the fascination with Baxter. I mean, I get it in the sense that someone was able to put together an impressive but short highlight film demonstrating that he can jump and can shoot 3's. But his college stats are distinctly unimpressive. He was barely a positive net player at Morgan State - a pretty weak program - in his fourth year of playing. With all his athletic ability, he had a -1.2 DBPM. That level of performance, at that age, against MEAC competition, suggests to me that Baxter has a very slim chance of having any future in the NBA.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/troy-baxter-1.html

Seems to be a guy with freak athleticism, shot blocking skill and 3pt range...worth a season on 2-way on the off chance he can learn to play NBA basketball...what's the opportunity cost?

I see your point, and I can't say that I have any great other options, but it just seems like such a long shot with Baxter that I feel that better options have to be out there. I predict Dotson and Thompson on the 2-way contracts.

[DuckIII]

This team is getting more and more athletic. But we still could use a freak inside. Even if a guy like Baxter never sticks, he’s the type of long shot I’d like to see AK use a roster spot to retain and see how he can be coached up.

[dougthonus]

This team is getting more and more athletic. But we still could use a freak inside. Even if a guy like Baxter never sticks, he’s the type of long shot I’d like to see AK use a roster spot to retain and see how he can be coached up.

If you look at the real big men on the roster you've got Vuc, Bradley, and Simonovic and no one else. Williams is a smallish 4 and will probably play a lot there, but isn't really going to do big man things (for that matter, questionable whether Simonovic will either).

With that backdrop, I do think it makes sense to go with an athletic freak big man and hope for the best. Vuc/Simonovic are minus athletes, so getting a plus athlete in there just gives you a different look and different options. For guys who aren't really going to play much at all and be highly situational, getting guys who fill very specific niches compared to your other players is sometimes more important than total talent.

I'm not sure if Baxter is a good enough player that you say I'll take that gamble on him specifically, but it's the type of gamble we should take.

[Minalt]

Pat looked REALLY solid in that second game. He looks different this summer. He seems leaner, but at the same time more muscular? Clearly getting into better shape. Maybe it's the haircut

His movements also look a bit more comfortable and decisive. Hopefully he continues to show that this summer league and it extends to camp, pre-season, regular season, playoffs, championships BABYYYY.

We didn't see his game off the dribble last year, but these two games have shown he has that in his repertoire.

Also, the baseline drive to go up with the float with less than a minute in the 4th was NICE.

[Minalt]

This team is getting more and more athletic. But we still could use a freak inside. Even if a guy like Baxter never sticks, he’s the type of long shot I’d like to see AK use a roster spot to retain and see how he can be coached up.

If you look at the real big men on the roster you've got Vuc, Bradley, and Simonovic and no one else. Williams is a smallish 4 and will probably play a lot there, but isn't really going to do big man things (for that matter, questionable whether Simonovic will either).

With that backdrop, I do think it makes sense to go with an athletic freak big man and hope for the best. Vuc/Simonovic are minus athletes, so getting a plus athlete in there just gives you a different look and different options. For guys who aren't really going to play much at all and be highly situational, getting guys who fill very specific niches compared to your other players is sometimes more important than total talent.

I'm not sure if Baxter is a good enough player that you say I'll take that gamble on him specifically, but it's the type of gamble we should take.

Daniel Gafford anyone??

Too bad we couldn't have kept Theis. If we still had him, we would have a lot options to throw at teams (defensive, offense, etc...)

[thedarkstark]

p

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Good for Williams on realizing he has to make an effort to be more assertive.

Pat's ability to create for himself on offense IMO is still way under-developed. I looked at Pat's college highlights, and then looked at Kawhi's, PG's, Jimmy's college highlights they showed more offense creation ability than Pat.

So it makes sense what Pat said that he's not naturally aggressive offensively with the ball in his hands. He needs to develop that instinct, that guys like Kawhi, Jimmy and PG has offensively. Now, I don't know how difficult is it to learn that, I mean some guys just born with it, some I guess have to figure it out, and I suspect it's a long process and will take some time.

I'm trying to think of somebody who started their career as an off-the-ball, known more for their defense, and ended up an primary / secondary scorer on their team. I guess those guys I mentioned, Kawhi, PG, Jimmy sort fall into this category. But, when I saw their college highlights they're actually pretty formidable on offense for their respective teams.

Pascal Siakam

[nomorezorro]

"freak athlete who was not particularly good as a 24-year-old at a MEAC school" is not who you use your two-way contract on. a guy can just be a normal g-league player, it's fine

[Chi town]

1. Jalen Green flashing MVP type of talent and aggression. His motor is incredible.

2. Cade is going to be great but I don’t see an MVP type ala Luka. IQ isn’t there. He is a much better defender though.

3. Mobley is going to take a while.

4. Suggs is going to really help the Magic. They need more shooting tho.

5. Barnes is going to be that hustle skill player that probably never has polish but just makes winning plays. A better offensive Draymond.

[Chi town]

Coaching has been kinda awful with the hockey subbing. PW w the bench several times.

1. Ayo or Dotson and PW or Marko need to be on the floor at all times. Let Ayo run some PG.

2. I don’t understand why Marko isnkt playing more mins. We have no future talent bigs on the roster.

3. Need shooting. Need to play w pace and move the ball on offense. PW is no bueno creating when the defense is set.

4. PW at the 4 will be him facing and shooting jumper or attacking off the dribble. I think he will become a handful for most 4s by mid season doing this. You can see how Lonzo will push pace in transition and DD will be our halfcourt PG with 5 out spread court. We should be electric offensively.

[dougthonus]

Daniel Gafford anyone??

Too bad we couldn't have kept Theis. If we still had him, we would have a lot options to throw at teams (defensive, offense, etc...)

Yeah, with the new roster, I'd much rather unwind that Theis trade and have Gafford than TBJ.

If we did keep the Theis trade, I'd rather have kept Theis than signed Caruso.

To some extent both moves may have been done without full knowledge of what could come next (ie, we signed Caruso before we knew we could get DeRozan possibly), but even so, I'd sacrifice Caruso for Theis or TBJ for Gafford with the existing roster as constructed.

[SaNdMiRkS]

TBJ over Gafford was a no-brainer. Russ Westbrook could make a broomstick look like a beastly frontcourt player

TBJ has way higher upside, and is a way better investment to make in 2020

Caruso + TBJ are players that fit the contemporary NBA mould. Having two bigs who can't shoot & can't handle on the same team makes zero sense, and neither fit BD's rapid-pace style of basketball

[SaNdMiRkS]

1. Jalen Green flashing MVP type of talent and aggression. His motor is incredible.

2. Cade is going to be great but I don’t see an MVP type ala Luka. IQ isn’t there. He is a much better defender though.

3. Mobley is going to take a while.

4. Suggs is going to really help the Magic. They need more shooting tho.

5. Barnes is going to be that hustle skill player that probably never has polish but just makes winning plays. A better offensive Draymond.

The IQ is there with CC, but the handle isn't, and it's preventing him from implementing the IQ. His shaky handle was probably his biggest red flag

[dougthonus]

TBJ over Gafford was a no-brainer. Russ Westbrook could make a broomstick look like a beastly frontcourt player

TBJ has way higher upside, and is a way better investment to make in 2020

I ignore what Westbrook did for Gafford. Just looking at what Gafford did in Chicago, he looked like a better overall prospect than TBj. They're the same basic age, both highly athletic guys with questionable skills, but Gafford is far more productive in his career so far.

Beyond that, Gafford had a much better contract, and TBJ will be gone next year unless he's a min player (in which case he didn't really pan out much anyway).

Caruso + TBJ are players that fit the contemporary NBA mould. Having two bigs who can't shoot & can't handle on the same team makes zero sense, and neither fit BD's rapid-pace style of basketball

Having a big who can dunk the hell out of everything and make athletic plays at the rim sure seems like a guy who could fit into a veyr high pass, high pace team which should be true this year.

Maybe I'm just too low on Troy Brown, but he doesn't seem like he has any particular talent we'll utilize, one way defensive guard at this point.

[SaNdMiRkS]

Coaching has been kinda awful with the hockey subbing. PW w the bench several times.

1. Ayo or Dotson and PW or Marko need to be on the floor at all times. Let Ayo run some PG.

2. I don’t understand why Marko isnkt playing more mins. We have no future talent bigs on the roster.

3. Need shooting. Need to play w pace and move the ball on offense. PW is no bueno creating when the defense is set.

4. PW at the 4 will be him facing and shooting jumper or attacking off the dribble. I think he will become a handful for most 4s by mid season doing this. You can see how Lonzo will push pace in transition and DD will be our halfcourt PG with 5 out spread court. We should be electric offensively.

I'd consider Tony Bradley to be a "future talent big", personally. He's young enough.

Vooch/Bradley/Marko is actually a potentially potent C rotation

[dougthonus]

I'd consider Tony Bradley to be a "future talent big", personally. He's young enough.

Vooch/Bradley/Marko is actually a potentially potent C rotation

Seeing Marko in summer league, he sure doesn't look big enough to be a 5 yet. Maybe a couple years in the weight room and he'll get there.

Vuc / Bradley should be a fairly potent center combination simply because with the current talent at center in the league, Vuc has to be top 5 or so right (just guessing, not actually making a list). Vuc + Anyone should be one of the best center rotations in the league.

[DuckIII]

"freak athlete who was not particularly good as a 24-year-old at a MEAC school" is not who you use your two-way contract on. a guy can just be a normal g-league player, it's fine

The history of the NBA is littered with guys who didn’t do anything in college and later made their way. He fits the profile of something we lack. I’m 100% with Doug. We don’t need Baxter specifically, but we need someone like him inside. Barring other options for a pogo stick big, he’s worth a roll of the dice.

[HINrichPolice]

What's interesting to me is how fluid and tight Patrick's handle was prior to being drafted in that summer scrimmage with Dinwiddie clip. He showed everything we are now clamoring for in terms of creating space in iso, looking comfortable with shot selection in iso, and just looking like a scorer. Yes, scrimmage is nothing like a real game, but if you just look at the way he moves now compared to then, I have some concerns that not only will his added strength and perhaps height/length be something he needs to adjust to, but perhaps his limited offensive role last year as mainly a 3&D guy might have stifled whatever trajectory he had as a shot creator and maker.

Before you think I'm overreacting, watch this clip again and tell me if you think he looks like a different player.

Watch on YouTube

[sco]

TBJ over Gafford was a no-brainer. Russ Westbrook could make a broomstick look like a beastly frontcourt player

TBJ has way higher upside, and is a way better investment to make in 2020

I ignore what Westbrook did for Gafford. Just looking at what Gafford did in Chicago, he looked like a better overall prospect than TBj. They're the same basic age, both highly athletic guys with questionable skills, but Gafford is far more productive in his career so far.

Beyond that, Gafford had a much better contract, and TBJ will be gone next year unless he's a min player (in which case he didn't really pan out much anyway).

Caruso + TBJ are players that fit the contemporary NBA mould. Having two bigs who can't shoot & can't handle on the same team makes zero sense, and neither fit BD's rapid-pace style of basketball

Having a big who can dunk the hell out of everything and make athletic plays at the rim sure seems like a guy who could fit into a veyr high pass, high pace team which should be true this year.

Maybe I'm just too low on Troy Brown, but he doesn't seem like he has any particular talent we'll utilize, one way defensive guard at this point.

I like Brown as a bigger Shaq Harrison type guy who can guard SF's. He has a better handle and has the potential to develop a jumper. I think he'll be a key rotation guy this season, coming in for Pat when he rests, with DD shifting to play PF. I like the idea of line-ups like Caruso, White, Brown, DD, Bradley or when DD sits, Ball, Zach, Brown, Pat, Vuc to bring better offense/defense balance.