YosemiteSam wrote:Xatticus wrote:I thought it was a really poor game. The pass that was picked off by Kuminga was just a dreadful play. It was probably a full 2-point swing in the outcome of the game. It reduced the EV of that possession by about a point and increased the value of the ensuing possession for GS by about a point. It's a losing play.
I was also a bit surprised by how much space he was giving to shooters. I saw him as comparable to Mikal Bridges at the defensive end. If he has to give up that much space to prevent guys from getting past him, then that sort of defensive ceiling is probably outside of his reach. You generally prefer to give up that long shot, but he was sagging too far to contest.
All of that said, I'm not making anything out of that performance. I said I wouldn't complain about the pick, so I won't. He wasn't my preference, but I think he will be just fine in the long run. For those out here that were expecting more from him offensively, this is what he is. If you expect more from him, you are just projecting hope. I'm not saying he can't improve, but this is what he is.
I wanted Sengun. I thought it was an easy decision. I'll try not to bring it up on a nightly basis. The problem with Wagner at 8 is that you can get that sort of player much later. If you press me to answer who will be better in the long run between Murphy and Wagner, I probably have to give the edge to Murphy because he is just a much better shooter. I know that Wagner is quite a bit younger, but I'm not sure what skills you expect him to add or improve, so I don't really see the upside.
Can you please explain why you were/are so down on Vuc but up on Sengun? To me Sengun is a younger, shorter Vuc, which is why I didn't want us to take him. Not because I don't value that but I couldn't take the board hate of Vuc and Fournier and didn't want a new white Euro whipping boy. But now we have that anyway in Wagner. But your Sengun support confuses me. Honest question
I don't see them as being comparable at all. They are both centers, I suppose. Sengun has a huge advantage in mobility and athleticism. He is far more skilled. Have you ever seen Vucevic go end to end with his dribble to set up a transition basket for a teammate? Have you ever seen Vucevic catch an alley oop? He scarcely ever gets more than a couple inches off the floor.
Sengun is a better pick-and-roll guy right now than Vucevic will ever be. Vucevic didn't really learn how to screen until we hired Clifford. He slipped every screen before that. Sengun slips on some and lays the wood on others. He really mixes it up and he screens incessantly. He greases the wheels for the offense. If the ball handler rejects a screen, he immediately swings around and sets an off-ball screen.
Sengun has much more defensive upside. He posted high block and steal rates in Turkey. We've seen this in summer league as well. He has blocked four shots in each game. His mobility is a huge advantage in this regard, but he also has really good anticipation and he is high energy at the defensive end. He understands verticality and he gets out to contest people away from the rim. He gets his body into guys while keeping his arms up. Vucevic, by contrast, simply sags under the basket. He has no mobility. He is ineffectual even when he is right next to someone. He just fades under the hoop and stretches out his arms.
Sengun is far more dynamic offensively. He creates offense in the same way that Jokic creates offense. He'll catch the ball and advance his position to force the defense to react. This opens up passing lanes and frees up shooters. Vucevic can't really move after he catches the ball. He is a stationary threat, which is far more limited. Sengun is a threat in the post. Vucevic isn't. Sengun posted absurd efficiency numbers from the post. Vucevic has been below average in post efficiency in almost every season.
Even if they were comparable, which I'd argue they aren't, Sengun is the far superior talent. He's really good at basketball right now. He has some bad habits that can be cleaned up, but I don't think I've ever seen a more skilled 18-year-old big in my lifetime. His offensive rebounding is amazing, Vucevic's is non-existent.
For what it's worth, I don't believe I'm down on Vucevic. I've praised his ability to make quick decisions. He is a good ball mover and good decision-maker. He is a good 3-point shooter at this point. He is solid as a defensive rebounder. These are his positive attributes. He is deficient at pretty much everything else. He is a disaster at the defensive end. I don't think it's a lack of effort. I just think he has zero talent defensively. I just believe he is a bench big that this franchise tried to turn into a centerpiece.
The short version of all of this is one of the two guys is much more mobile, much more athletic, much more intuitive, and much more skilled than the other.
"Xatticus has always been, in my humble opinion best poster here. Should write articles or something."
-pepe1991
