Summer League Thread Part 4: Aug 14th Charlotte @7pm TSN2

[TrustFundBaby]

Just because someone is a project & raw doesn't mean they don't deserve to go high. Players are usually ranked on their perceived potential

If Barnes hits, you basically got a player who is the exact archetype of the future. 6'9 playmaker that can cover all positions. That's why he went #4.

Guys like Suggs, Sengun, Jalen Johnson, Bouknight etc WILL look better than Scottie on most nights this season

Save yourself the headache and don't meltdown when Barnes has an unproductive night while some other rookie just popped off for 20.

[Danny1616]

Draymond Green is a fringe all-star. I see him as a Jrue Holiday-level player who benefitted from playing with the three greatest shooters in history and two greatest scorers of their generation. His defense is good and his playmaking is good, but the play making would not carry over to a mediocre team. He played with excellent talent.

At 4, you draft a damn superstar. Especially considering where Draymond went in the draft.

How many superstars do you think there are in every draft?

Also, his defense isn’t “good”, he’s one of the best defensive players in nba history.

The way some people talk on here you'd think there are 25 NBA ready superstars just raring to go in every draft. NBA rookies are absolutely awful, even the best ones. They are incredibly inefficient, can't play defense. There are levels to this.

I love YouTube, but it's hilarious watching intense post-summer league analysis on every little detail, it's becoming way too much.

Lets just go to the most recent summer league in 2019.

Malik Monk was 2nd in scoring, finishing with 23ppg on 56% fg and 46% 3fg. Everybody was projecting Malik to be a star, but he was pretty bad in his rookie season and struggled his first couple seasons. He's decent now, but a pretty average player.

Josh Hart and Kevin Knox were 3rd and 4th in scoring. Both are solid players, but nothing special.

Ironically, Trae Young didn't seem special in summer league, averaging 17ppg on 38% fg.

[ForeverTFC]

lol @ "you draft a superstar at 4".

The best draft of all time in recent memory was 2003:
1. Lebron (superstar)
2. Milicic (bust)
3. Melo (star)
4. Bosh (all-star)
5. Wade (star)

Here is the number 4 pick in the last 10 drafts:
2020 Patrick Williams - Chicago Bulls
2019 De’Andre Hunter – Atlanta Hawks
2018 Jaren Jackson Jr.– Memphis Grizzlies
2017 Josh Jackson – Phoenix Suns
2016 Dragan Bender – Phoenix Suns
2015 Kristaps Porzingis – New York Knicks
2014 Aaron Gordon – Orlando Magic
2013 Cody Zeller – Charlotte Bobcats
2012 Dion Waiters – Cleveland Cavaliers
2011 Tristan Thompson – Cleveland Cavaliers
2010 Wesley Johnson – Minnesota Timberwolves

You look at that list and tell me superstar is your expectation at 4 and you'd be unhappy with Draymond Green? You need to lower your expectations. People are so obsessed with prospects, they don't realize how rare it is to hit at ANY spot and how hard it is to draft a superstar in general.

[Danny1616]

lol @ "you draft a superstar at 4".

The best draft of all time in recent memory was 2002:
1. Lebron (superstar)
2. Milicic (bust)
3. Melo (star)
4. Bosh (all-star)
5. Wade (star)

Here is the number 4 pick in the last 10 drafts:
2020 Patrick Williams - Chicago Bulls
2019 De’Andre Hunter – Atlanta Hawks
2018 Jaren Jackson Jr.– Memphis Grizzlies
2017 Josh Jackson – Phoenix Suns
2016 Dragan Bender – Phoenix Suns
2015 Kristaps Porzingis – New York Knicks
2014 Aaron Gordon – Orlando Magic
2013 Cody Zeller – Charlotte Bobcats
2012 Dion Waiters – Cleveland Cavaliers
2011 Tristan Thompson – Cleveland Cavaliers
2010 Wesley Johnson – Minnesota Timberwolves

You look at that list and tell me superstar is your expectation at 4 and you'd be unhappy with Draymond Green? You need to lower your expectations. People are so obsessed with prospects, they don't realize how rare it is to hit at ANY spot and how hard it is to draft a superstar in general.

Yep.

Hopefully we luck out and Barnes becomes a superstar, but the odds are that he'll likely be a solid or very good player, but not a star.

[anotherhomer]

lol @ "you draft a superstar at 4".

The best draft of all time in recent memory was 2002:
1. Lebron (superstar)
2. Milicic (bust)
3. Melo (star)
4. Bosh (all-star)
5. Wade (star)

Here is the number 4 pick in the last 10 drafts:
2020 Patrick Williams - Chicago Bulls
2019 De’Andre Hunter – Atlanta Hawks
2018 Jaren Jackson Jr.– Memphis Grizzlies
2017 Josh Jackson – Phoenix Suns
2016 Dragan Bender – Phoenix Suns
2015 Kristaps Porzingis – New York Knicks
2014 Aaron Gordon – Orlando Magic
2013 Cody Zeller – Charlotte Bobcats
2012 Dion Waiters – Cleveland Cavaliers
2011 Tristan Thompson – Cleveland Cavaliers
2010 Wesley Johnson – Minnesota Timberwolves

You look at that list and tell me superstar is your expectation at 4 and you'd be unhappy with Draymond Green? You need to lower your expectations. People are so obsessed with prospects, they don't realize how rare it is to hit at ANY spot and how hard it is to draft a superstar in general.

we pass on a sure thing in Suggs

[BoyzNTheHood]

This just in, Scottie Barnes isn't Michael Jordan. With that said, Michael Jordan would get crucified on this forum. I would not dispute it if someone called RealGM the origin of toxicity.

[anotherhomer]

Just because someone is a project & raw doesn't mean they don't deserve to go high. Players are usually ranked on their perceived potential

If Barnes hits, you basically got a player who is the exact archetype of the future. 6'9 playmaker that can cover all positions. That's why he went #4.

Guys like Suggs, Sengun, Jalen Johnson, Bouknight etc WILL look better than Scottie on most nights this season

Save yourself the headache and don't meltdown when Barnes has an unproductive night while some other rookie just popped off for 20.

usually you go for a more sure player at #4 esp if they are more ready players

[Los_29]

lol @ "you draft a superstar at 4".

The best draft of all time in recent memory was 2002:
1. Lebron (superstar)
2. Milicic (bust)
3. Melo (star)
4. Bosh (all-star)
5. Wade (star)

Here is the number 4 pick in the last 10 drafts:
2020 Patrick Williams - Chicago Bulls
2019 De’Andre Hunter – Atlanta Hawks
2018 Jaren Jackson Jr.– Memphis Grizzlies
2017 Josh Jackson – Phoenix Suns
2016 Dragan Bender – Phoenix Suns
2015 Kristaps Porzingis – New York Knicks
2014 Aaron Gordon – Orlando Magic
2013 Cody Zeller – Charlotte Bobcats
2012 Dion Waiters – Cleveland Cavaliers
2011 Tristan Thompson – Cleveland Cavaliers
2010 Wesley Johnson – Minnesota Timberwolves

You look at that list and tell me superstar is your expectation at 4 and you'd be unhappy with Draymond Green? You need to lower your expectations. People are so obsessed with prospects, they don't realize how rare it is to hit at ANY spot and how hard it is to draft a superstar in general.

we pass on a sure thing in Suggs

There is no such thing as a sure thing.

[bon]

We going to go through this after every bad game Barnes plays? We aren't going to know what this kid is for 2-3 years so let's pump the brakes analyzing him after every game (summer league included).

Yes it's going to be in every single game thread from now until the end of the season. Even if Barnes plays well and scores 20, Team Misery will still bring up the fact that Suggs scored 21. Looking like another toxic year.

[Danny1616]

We going to go through this after every bad game Barnes plays? We aren't going to know what this kid is for 2-3 years so let's pump the brakes analyzing him after every game (summer league included).

Yes it's going to be in every single game thread from now until the end of the season. Even if Barnes plays well and scores 20, Team Misery will still bring up the fact that Suggs scored 21. Looking like another toxic year.

Yep, 2 summer league games in and people are already deciding who is a bust and who is for real, lol.

Some are even proposing trading Siakam for these rookies based on just 2 games.

Patrick Williams led all summer league guys in scoring after game 1 with 30. I like Pat, he's gonna be a solid player, but it's not like he dominated the league as a rookie.

Lamelo on the other hand stank it up in pre-season, especially against us, and then turned out to be a very good player.

[gerrit4]

lol @ "you draft a superstar at 4".

The best draft of all time in recent memory was 2003:
1. Lebron (superstar)
2. Milicic (bust)
3. Melo (star)
4. Bosh (all-star)
5. Wade (star)

Here is the number 4 pick in the last 10 drafts:
2020 Patrick Williams - Chicago Bulls
2019 De’Andre Hunter – Atlanta Hawks
2018 Jaren Jackson Jr.– Memphis Grizzlies
2017 Josh Jackson – Phoenix Suns
2016 Dragan Bender – Phoenix Suns
2015 Kristaps Porzingis – New York Knicks
2014 Aaron Gordon – Orlando Magic
2013 Cody Zeller – Charlotte Bobcats
2012 Dion Waiters – Cleveland Cavaliers
2011 Tristan Thompson – Cleveland Cavaliers
2010 Wesley Johnson – Minnesota Timberwolves

You look at that list and tell me superstar is your expectation at 4 and you'd be unhappy with Draymond Green? You need to lower your expectations. People are so obsessed with prospects, they don't realize how rare it is to hit at ANY spot and how hard it is to draft a superstar in general.

Wade wasn’t a superstar? There are few players in the last 20 years with his resume.

[Young_Buc]

Barnes doesn't suck but at #4 he shouldn't have been picked. He looks like a raw talent who came off the bench as a freshman. Which he is.

Name me one other player who did this and was successful. I know Marvin Williams and Corey maggette did, but they never lived up to potential.

Brush up on your history. Plenty of players had subpar freshman seasons and went on to have great College or NBA careers.

Example: Russell Westbrook as a freshman averaged 3.4ppg, 0.8rpg and 0.7apg. Even as a sophmore his stats weren't great...averaged 12.7ppg, 4rpg and 4apg (almost the same stats as Barnes as a freshman).

Westbrook was a great NBA player almost from the jump.

Current example: Donovan Mitchell averaged 7.4ppg, 3.4rpg and 1apg as a freshman.

Tons of more examples if you actually look.

You know there is a reason that the heavy majority scouts predicted Barnes as a consensus top 6 pick.

Maybe I should have been more specific. I mean 6th man freshmen taken in the lottery. Like Williams was or maggette or Patrick Williams (I think?) It doesn't happen often. If you're a top 5 player in the draft, usually you're a college star, let alone starter.

[Danny1616]

Barnes doesn't suck but at #4 he shouldn't have been picked. He looks like a raw talent who came off the bench as a freshman. Which he is.

Name me one other player who did this and was successful. I know Marvin Williams and Corey maggette did, but they never lived up to potential.

Brush up on your history. Plenty of players had subpar freshman seasons and went on to have great College or NBA careers.

Example: Russell Westbrook as a freshman averaged 3.4ppg, 0.8rpg and 0.7apg. Even as a sophmore his stats weren't great...averaged 12.7ppg, 4rpg and 4apg (almost the same stats as Barnes as a freshman).

Westbrook was a great NBA player almost from the jump.

Current example: Donovan Mitchell averaged 7.4ppg, 3.4rpg and 1apg as a freshman.

Tons of more examples if you actually look.

You know there is a reason that the heavy majority scouts predicted Barnes as a consensus top 6 pick.

Maybe I should have been more specific. I mean 6th man freshmen taken in the lottery. Like Williams was or maggette or Patrick Williams (I think?) It doesn't happen often. If you're a top 5 player in the draft, usually you're a college star, let alone starter.

Not sure I'm understanding what you are saying.

I pointed out that Westbrook did nothing in his freshman season, and his stats as a sophmore were basically identical to Scottie as a Sophmore. Westbrook went #4 in the 2008 draft.

What does it matter if Scottie started or came off the bench his rookie season. He was the #4 ranked player in his class out of high school. The entire year he was projected to be a top 5-10 pick. That was a decision that the Florida St. coaching staff made and it was for Barnes to be a PG. The Florida St. coaching staff have been raving about how good he is.

And no, that's not true. A lot of lottery picks are 19 year old freshman who didn't have great college stats, but are taken early because they are projected to be stars. They are essentially raw projects that teams believe will pay off later.

[Young_Buc]

Brush up on your history. Plenty of players had subpar freshman seasons and went on to have great College or NBA careers.

Example: Russell Westbrook as a freshman averaged 3.4ppg, 0.8rpg and 0.7apg. Even as a sophmore his stats weren't great...averaged 12.7ppg, 4rpg and 4apg (almost the same stats as Barnes as a freshman).

Westbrook was a great NBA player almost from the jump.

Current example: Donovan Mitchell averaged 7.4ppg, 3.4rpg and 1apg as a freshman.

Tons of more examples if you actually look.

You know there is a reason that the heavy majority scouts predicted Barnes as a consensus top 6 pick.

Maybe I should have been more specific. I mean 6th man freshmen taken in the lottery. Like Williams was or maggette or Patrick Williams (I think?) It doesn't happen often. If you're a top 5 player in the draft, usually you're a college star, let alone starter.

Not sure I'm understanding what you are saying.

I pointed out that Westbrook did nothing in his freshman season, and his stats as a sophmore were basically identical to Scottie as a Sophmore. Westbrook went #4 in the 2008 draft.

Westbrook wasn't drafted in his freshman year is what I'm saying. He had to prove (he was a reach and a great one) himself a lottery player.

[ForeverTFC]

lol @ "you draft a superstar at 4".

The best draft of all time in recent memory was 2002:
1. Lebron (superstar)
2. Milicic (bust)
3. Melo (star)
4. Bosh (all-star)
5. Wade (star)

Here is the number 4 pick in the last 10 drafts:
2020 Patrick Williams - Chicago Bulls
2019 De’Andre Hunter – Atlanta Hawks
2018 Jaren Jackson Jr.– Memphis Grizzlies
2017 Josh Jackson – Phoenix Suns
2016 Dragan Bender – Phoenix Suns
2015 Kristaps Porzingis – New York Knicks
2014 Aaron Gordon – Orlando Magic
2013 Cody Zeller – Charlotte Bobcats
2012 Dion Waiters – Cleveland Cavaliers
2011 Tristan Thompson – Cleveland Cavaliers
2010 Wesley Johnson – Minnesota Timberwolves

You look at that list and tell me superstar is your expectation at 4 and you'd be unhappy with Draymond Green? You need to lower your expectations. People are so obsessed with prospects, they don't realize how rare it is to hit at ANY spot and how hard it is to draft a superstar in general.

we pass on a sure thing in Suggs

How do you even know that? If Jalen Suggs was a sure thing and that sure thing was a star, he would have gone 1st overall.

[Risk101]

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[Danny1616]

Maybe I should have been more specific. I mean 6th man freshmen taken in the lottery. Like Williams was or maggette or Patrick Williams (I think?) It doesn't happen often. If you're a top 5 player in the draft, usually you're a college star, let alone starter.

Not sure I'm understanding what you are saying.

I pointed out that Westbrook did nothing in his freshman season, and his stats as a sophmore were basically identical to Scottie as a Sophmore. Westbrook went #4 in the 2008 draft.

Westbrook wasn't drafted in his freshman year is what I'm saying. He had to prove (he was a reach and a great one) himself a lottery player.

But Westbrook's stats as a sophmore were virtually identical to Barnes as a freshman and he went #4.

[Young_Buc]

Not sure I'm understanding what you are saying.

I pointed out that Westbrook did nothing in his freshman season, and his stats as a sophmore were basically identical to Scottie as a Sophmore. Westbrook went #4 in the 2008 draft.

Westbrook wasn't drafted in his freshman year is what I'm saying. He had to prove (he was a reach and a great one) himself a lottery player.

But Westbrook's stats as a sophmore were virtually identical to Barnes as a freshman and he went #4.

Westbrook's team went to the final 4, he was pac 10 defensive player of the year and was widely considered a huge reach at #4 that year. He also was a starter for Collison

[Danny1616]

Westbrook wasn't drafted in his freshman year is what I'm saying. He had to prove (he was a reach and a great one) himself a lottery player.

But Westbrook's stats as a sophmore were virtually identical to Barnes as a freshman and he went #4.

Westbrook's team went to the final 4, he was pac 10 defensive player of the year and was widely considered a huge reach at #4 that year. He also was a starter for Collison

So what are you suggesting? That Barnes stay another year at College, start for Florida St, play more minutes and post better stats simply to appease you? Would that aid you psychologically?

[Young_Buc]

But Westbrook's stats as a sophmore were virtually identical to Barnes as a freshman and he went #4.

Westbrook's team went to the final 4, he was pac 10 defensive player of the year and was widely considered a huge reach at #4 that year. He also was a starter for Collison

So what are you suggesting? That Barnes stay another year at College, start for Florida St, play more minutes and post better stats simply to appease you? Would that aid you psychologically?

Who suggested that exactly? I asked simply which other 6th man was taken that high and successful? You misinterpreted the question and are now upset about it for some reason. If you can answer the question (which was my original query) that would be great, if not, that's fine too.