The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread

[PhilBlackson]

I didn't like the way Barnes was used today but maybe they were taking a game to get him to try & work on his weaknesses because they certainly weren't as they say "putting him in position to be successful"...

This game we seen a lot of Malachi, Johnson or even Rexdale McCaw aka Banton, bring up the ball...whether that was off the rebound or inbound.

That's of course where Scottie shines and shows you some of his natural talent and ability in the open court...instead they basically played him entirely opposite to his strengths. Made spot up for 3s, play off ball and try to figure out where he needs to be on the court, he's only barely starting to understand cutting to the basket. Shows a bit with some low post feeds but even there he has to be stronger around the basket. We also iso'd a couple times near the mid range to create...it sounds like a checklist of where he needs to improve so maybe it was being used as a learning experience to help teach and also be able to really highlight to him what he needs to do in those situations.

Maybe I'm overanalysing but I genuinely felt like they almost tried to limit him bringing the ball up this game and get him to learn more of what to do off ball which long term is great as he figures it out with those physical tools but in the short term may be growing pains.

So to be clear I'm not complaining really about how he was used but it didn't seem like they were trying to play to his strengths but almost intentionally take it out of his hands and start playing a bit off ball because with Flynn and Dragic being off the bench with him, he has to at least learning how to ALSO be able to play off ball as well and when he's not the one setting up the plays. Short term pains with hopes of long term gains.

[anotherhomer]

Because he'll be ask to play off-ball a lot this rookie season, as the 4th/5th option

I think he should spend time in G-league to have the ball more often though

That's of course where Scottie shines and shows you some of his natural talent and ability in the open court...instead they basically played him entirely opposite to his strengths. Made spot up for 3s, play off ball and try to figure out where he needs to be on the court, he's only barely starting to understand cutting to the basket. Shows a bit with some low post feeds but even there he has to be stronger around the basket.

Maybe I'm overanalysing but I genuinely felt like they almost tried to limit him bringing the ball up this game and get him to learn more of what to do off ball which long term is great as he figures it out with those physical tools but in the short term may be growing pains.

[WaltFrazier]

Watch on YouTube

Just after watching the way he moves/shot is smooth/athletism/playmaking im still kinda feeling we f'd up here but we shall see i hope im wrong but gut telling me im not

Wow, that offensive rebound/tip dunk was something. And posters here said he isn't athletic.

This guy is comfortable playing NBA ball right now and would be starting in our backcourt with Fred if we drafted him. If we had picked Suggs there wouldn't be nearly as much second guessing about, should we have taken Barnes. Most of the board would be on the same page backing Suggs if he were our guy.

edit - just watched the whole thing again. Makes me want to cry, this kid is the real deal. Now, not a maybe in 3-4 years.

[disoblige]

Yeah I think this second game Barnes will put the athleticism issues to rest. Knicks are well coached, even the summer league team. Warriors are gonna be sloppy and easy to get into the break against and we will see more of that athleticism.

Not to mention its hot as hell in Vegas and Scottie was gassed. You gotta remember he is a legit 6'9 230. This is a big boy. Its not like Kuminga who is 6'6 210.

And he doesn't HAVE TO play with athleticism all the time. This is a good sign. He knows when to use it, not to burn himself out.

I think the athleticism looked worse in game 2. He made a bunch of decent moves to the rim but failed to dunk, missed bunnies. Yes he drew some fouls but a young 6'9 guy, i wanna see him power through and dunk some of those. If he lacks explosion that's disappointing.

Is Barnes 6’7 or 6’9? I keep seeing different heights posted on Realgm. Either way I don’t see him being a lead ball handler unless he works on his outside shot. I can easily see defenses sagging off him and collapsing as he drives into the lane. He didn’t move that quickly this game but maybe he’s just tired.

6'8 without shoes, 6'9 with shoes. Most nba players are refered with shoes.

[jimross]

Watch on YouTube

Just after watching the way he moves/shot is smooth/athletism/playmaking im still kinda feeling we f'd up here but we shall see i hope im wrong but gut telling me im not

Wow, that offensive rebound/tip dunk was something. And posters here said he isn't athletic.

This guy is comfortable playing NBA ball right now and would be starting in our backcourt with Fred if we drafted him. If we had picked Suggs there wouldn't be nearly as much second guessing about, should we have taken Barnes. Most of the board would be on the same page backing Suggs if he were our guy.

edit - just watched the whole thing again. Makes me want to cry, this kid is the real deal. Now, not a maybe in 3-4 years.

Suggs was my favorite player in the draft. Zero chance he was going to bust. His upside was being severely under appreciated throughout the process as well.

The one thing about drafting Barnes is that he's at least a year (most likely two or three) away from being a consistent threat on the offensive side of the ball and really a difference maker. By then Siakim and FVV will be 29-30. Still not old, but kind of feels like we're stuck in no man lands right now wasting their primes.

Suggs will be a difference maker day 1 and would have fit this current core like a glove.

Like I said earlier I don't hate the Barnes pick but wish we would have made more rebuilding moves if he was the pick.

[VanWest82]

Suggs is the better player today so presumably the "too early" is referring to projecting them in 3-5 years. I have faith in what Masai and Bobby saw. Scottie isn't Bruno. He'll work and if he adds skill to that frame look out.

[anotherhomer]

Watch on YouTube

Just after watching the way he moves/shot is smooth/athletism/playmaking im still kinda feeling we f'd up here but we shall see i hope im wrong but gut telling me im not

Wow, that offensive rebound/tip dunk was something. And posters here said he isn't athletic.

This guy is comfortable playing NBA ball right now and would be starting in our backcourt with Fred if we drafted him. If we had picked Suggs there wouldn't be nearly as much second guessing about, should we have taken Barnes. Most of the board would be on the same page backing Suggs if he were our guy.

edit - just watched the whole thing again. Makes me want to cry, this kid is the real deal. Now, not a maybe in 3-4 years.

Suggs was my favorite player in the draft. Zero chance he was going to bust. His upside was being severely under appreciated throughout the process as well.

The one thing about drafting Barnes is that he's at least a year (most likely two or three) away from being a consistent threat on the offensive side of the ball and really a difference maker. By then Siakim and FVV will be 29-30. Still not old, but kind of feels like we're stuck in no man lands right now wasting their primes.

Suggs will be a difference maker day 1 and would have fit this current core like a glove.

Like I said earlier I don't hate the Barnes pick but wish we would have made more rebuilding moves if he was the pick.

it's a really huge gamble, passing on a sure thing Jrue/Drose 2.0 over someone who right now, is projected to be a high-level Defensive role player with maybe some 3 and playmaking

[DrCoach]

I wanted Suggs but Masai has been looking for his Giannis project. Imagine Barnes growing another inch or two and filling out. Pretty scary

I keep reading this and it makes no sense. They aren't even close to the same type of player.

They have similar early play styles. Prior to the NBA, Giannis was a big "point guard" over in Greece. Both are Swiss army knife type players with poor jumpshots. Keep in mind that Giannis used to look like this as a rookie:

Exactly, Giannis also grew.

Not sure how anybody with any kind of common sense would say they aren't even close to the same type of player

[Hackett]

Word is Suggs had a terrible workout for us, night and day terrible. I don't think he wanted to come to Toronto. The fist pump after being passed in the selection says it all.

It is understandable why Toronto had doubts with Suggs, sure it may have been just fear of the unknown, but it may not have... the attitude of the two players about being in Toronto is complete opposite. One is genuinely happy to be here, the other one looked like he sabotaged his workout for us, or was so uncomfortable being here that it affected his game drastically.

Those of you angry for us passing on him, need to realize that in this league the players comfort and mindset can affect everything from Locke room relations, to comfort of other players growing up in the system.

Masai got the best player that wanted to be here.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Suggs is the better player today so presumably the "too early" is referring to projecting them in 3-5 years. I have faith in what Masai and Bobby saw. Scottie isn't Bruno. He'll work and if he adds skill to that frame look out.

exactly. people need to stop comparing them today because you will be super disappointed 100%. Scottie Barnes isn't going to be amazing until after his 1-3 years in the league, if he gets there.

and frankly, its already been done, people have no say in the matter to begin with. whats the point of exerting that negative vibe anyways. it doesn't make you feel better just because you got it off your chest on some internet forum lmao.

[Clutch0z24]

Word is Suggs had a terrible workout for us, night and day terrible. I don't think he wanted to come to Toronto. The fist pump after being passed in the selection says it all.

It is understandable why Toronto had doubts with Suggs, sure it may have been just fear of the unknown, but it may not have... the attitude of the two players about being in Toronto is complete opposite. One is genuinely happy to be here, the other one looked like he sabotaged his workout for us, or was so uncomfortable being here that it affected his game drastically.

Those of you angry for us passing on him, need to realize that in this league the players comfort and mindset can affect everything from Locke room relations, to comfort of other players growing up in the system.

Masai got the best player that wanted to be here.

I would say that is all speculation ....People have bad workouts (Days on the court) you don't pass on players just cause of that you look at the body of work and if you followed Suggs in College you know he was going to be a hooper...

That being said i think Raps scouted Barnes way more than they did Suggs (Considering they were going to be drafting around 7th all year) and fell in love with him over Suggs So even when they fell to 4 where Suggs was the obvious pick they went with Barnes anyways cause they fell in love with him..

Even if a player doesn't wanna be here (Kawhi Leonard didn't wanna be here when he got traded to us) you still take the best player available regardless of the situation that helps you win basketball games...

That is still TBD who is the best player out the 2 but even if he would be upset to being drafted here (Which i doubt) you still take him and he would be under contract for 4 years ....Heck there was rumors Lowry didn't wanna be here when we traded for him look how that turned out

[arbsn]

Suggs is the better player today so presumably the "too early" is referring to projecting them in 3-5 years. I have faith in what Masai and Bobby saw. Scottie isn't Bruno. He'll work and if he adds skill to that frame look out.

exactly. people need to stop comparing them today because you will be super disappointed 100%. Scottie Barnes isn't going to be amazing until after his 1-3 years in the league, if he gets there.

and frankly, its already been done, people have no say in the matter to begin with. whats the point of exerting that negative vibe anyways. it doesn't make you feel better just because you got it off your chest on some internet forum lmao.

This is a discussion board the whole purpose of RealGM is to debate topics like this. For good or bad, these 2 players will always be linked due to the way the draft played out. I’m a fan of both players but I love Suggs. Another thing that has impressed me with him so far is that he plays with 2 other high level prospect guards (Cole Anthony/RJ Hampton) and he is already the alpha / leader of the team

[Young_Buc]

Watch on YouTube

Just after watching the way he moves/shot is smooth/athletism/playmaking im still kinda feeling we f'd up here but we shall see i hope im wrong but gut telling me im not

Wow, that offensive rebound/tip dunk was something. And posters here said he isn't athletic.

This guy is comfortable playing NBA ball right now and would be starting in our backcourt with Fred if we drafted him. If we had picked Suggs there wouldn't be nearly as much second guessing about, should we have taken Barnes. Most of the board would be on the same page backing Suggs if he were our guy.

edit - just watched the whole thing again. Makes me want to cry, this kid is the real deal. Now, not a maybe in 3-4 years.

I clicked play with the intention of finding things that will prevent him from being a star. His handle is the closest I've got, but if he works on it...

I've got nothing.

[Mehar]

I think the athleticism looked worse in game 2. He made a bunch of decent moves to the rim but failed to dunk, missed bunnies. Yes he drew some fouls but a young 6'9 guy, i wanna see him power through and dunk some of those. If he lacks explosion that's disappointing.

Is Barnes 6’7 or 6’9? I keep seeing different heights posted on Realgm. Either way I don’t see him being a lead ball handler unless he works on his outside shot. I can easily see defenses sagging off him and collapsing as he drives into the lane. He didn’t move that quickly this game but maybe he’s just tired.

6'8 without shoes, 6'9 with shoes. Most nba players are refered with shoes.

Barnes measured 6 foot 7 without shoes in the combine. 6 foot 8 with shoes.

[disoblige]

Is Barnes 6’7 or 6’9? I keep seeing different heights posted on Realgm. Either way I don’t see him being a lead ball handler unless he works on his outside shot. I can easily see defenses sagging off him and collapsing as he drives into the lane. He didn’t move that quickly this game but maybe he’s just tired.

6'8 without shoes, 6'9 with shoes. Most nba players are refered with shoes.

Barnes measured 6 foot 7 without shoes in the combine. 6 foot 8 with shoes.

Ok, I probably got it wrong. I got it from here. at 48sec

Read on Twitter

Nba and espn have him at 6'9
https://ca.nba.com/news/2021-nba-draft-scottie-barnes-scouting-report-strengths-weaknesses-and-player-comparisons/dwlgq2qx360m1xc5nb130p1nf

Raptors.com listed him at 6'7

[In The City]

Word is Suggs had a terrible workout for us, night and day terrible. I don't think he wanted to come to Toronto. The fist pump after being passed in the selection says it all.

It is understandable why Toronto had doubts with Suggs, sure it may have been just fear of the unknown, but it may not have... the attitude of the two players about being in Toronto is complete opposite. One is genuinely happy to be here, the other one looked like he sabotaged his workout for us, or was so uncomfortable being here that it affected his game drastically.

Those of you angry for us passing on him, need to realize that in this league the players comfort and mindset can affect everything from Locke room relations, to comfort of other players growing up in the system.

Masai got the best player that wanted to be here.

Not sure about this...I don't believe Masai and Webster would let a player's attitude towards playing in Toronto determine who they chose. If that was the case, they wouldn't have signed Kahwi and they would never try to sign free agent superstars. My thought is that apart from Barnes' massive upside, the Raptors didn't want to choose another guard after picking Flynn and signing Trent Jr.. Barnes can still help the Raptors as he develops. Time will tell.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Suggs is the better player today so presumably the "too early" is referring to projecting them in 3-5 years. I have faith in what Masai and Bobby saw. Scottie isn't Bruno. He'll work and if he adds skill to that frame look out.

exactly. people need to stop comparing them today because you will be super disappointed 100%. Scottie Barnes isn't going to be amazing until after his 1-3 years in the league, if he gets there.

and frankly, its already been done, people have no say in the matter to begin with. whats the point of exerting that negative vibe anyways. it doesn't make you feel better just because you got it off your chest on some internet forum lmao.

This is a discussion board the whole purpose of RealGM is to debate topics like this. For good or bad, these 2 players will always be linked due to the way the draft played out. I’m a fan of both players but I love Suggs. Another thing that has impressed me with him so far is that he plays with 2 other high level prospect guards (Cole Anthony/RJ Hampton) and he is already the alpha / leader of the team

There’s no discussion lol just exclamation of tireless complaining


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pointgod]

Watch on YouTube

Just after watching the way he moves/shot is smooth/athletism/playmaking im still kinda feeling we f'd up here but we shall see i hope im wrong but gut telling me im not

Wow, that offensive rebound/tip dunk was something. And posters here said he isn't athletic.

This guy is comfortable playing NBA ball right now and would be starting in our backcourt with Fred if we drafted him. If we had picked Suggs there wouldn't be nearly as much second guessing about, should we have taken Barnes. Most of the board would be on the same page backing Suggs if he were our guy.

edit - just watched the whole thing again. Makes me want to cry, this kid is the real deal. Now, not a maybe in 3-4 years.

I clicked play with the intention of finding things that will prevent him from being a star. His handle is the closest I've got, but if he works on it...

I've got nothing.

All of Sugg’s negatives would be deal breakers in a guy that was 2-3 inches shorter, but the fact that he’s 6’4 allows him to make up for his short comings. His motor is also crazy. I see him as this drafts Damien Lillard, someone who slipped in the draft but could have gone top 3. He comes in more polished, but there’s significant upside to him.

[Anticon]

Watch on YouTube

Just after watching the way he moves/shot is smooth/athletism/playmaking im still kinda feeling we f'd up here but we shall see i hope im wrong but gut telling me im not

Wow, that offensive rebound/tip dunk was something. And posters here said he isn't athletic.

This guy is comfortable playing NBA ball right now and would be starting in our backcourt with Fred if we drafted him. If we had picked Suggs there wouldn't be nearly as much second guessing about, should we have taken Barnes. Most of the board would be on the same page backing Suggs if he were our guy.

edit - just watched the whole thing again. Makes me want to cry, this kid is the real deal. Now, not a maybe in 3-4 years.

I clicked play with the intention of finding things that will prevent him from being a star. His handle is the closest I've got, but if he works on it...

I've got nothing.

Yeah, he's the real deal. Just a genuine basketball player.

Which is why I think the pick shows their decision making process is biased/broken in some way. The fixation on height and wingspan is becoming parody.

Barnes is an Ingram type project except the other way around. That can be a valuable piece, so the only consolation is if they expand the roster with a player of similar scoring ability. But not quite sure how they do that outside of the draft.

[Basketball_Jones]

Watch on YouTube

Just after watching the way he moves/shot is smooth/athletism/playmaking im still kinda feeling we f'd up here but we shall see i hope im wrong but gut telling me im not

Wow, that offensive rebound/tip dunk was something. And posters here said he isn't athletic.

This guy is comfortable playing NBA ball right now and would be starting in our backcourt with Fred if we drafted him. If we had picked Suggs there wouldn't be nearly as much second guessing about, should we have taken Barnes. Most of the board would be on the same page backing Suggs if he were our guy.

edit - just watched the whole thing again. Makes me want to cry, this kid is the real deal. Now, not a maybe in 3-4 years.

I clicked play with the intention of finding things that will prevent him from being a star. His handle is the closest I've got, but if he works on it...

I've got nothing.

He hasn’t shot well yet either, so there’s that. But yeah even that looks salvageable