Summer League Thread Part 4: Aug 14th Charlotte @7pm TSN2

[Dalek]

Honestly nobody on the Raps looked good in this last game, the offense looked completely out of whack. I'd like to see a lot less of Banton, Flynn, Johnson and those G Leaguers initiating the offense, and a lot more of Barnes running the show. Scottie didn't shoot well, but whenever the ball was in his hands he made something happen. I love his passion for the game and his turn around mid range jumper was really nice, but his reaction afterwards was kind of extra. I would like for him to get to place where he expects to make those types of shots and it's just business as usual, hopefully this comes as he matures and improves his game.

Barnes and Kuminga going at each other was really fun to watch. It felt like in the second half Barnes realized that Kuminga was getting the better of him and Scottie really started to turn it on in the 3rd. I'm hoping the coaching staff is ingraining the attack mindset in Barnes, because when he's committed and aggressive attacking the rim or getting to his spot, good luck trying to stop him.

I wonder if how Barnes would look playing with the starters, passing to smart cutters like Pascal and OG, or shooters like Flynn and Trent.

I really hope our plan to develop him is to put the ball in his hands on offense and not have him stand in the corner waiting to shoot a 3.

I guess the ball handling of Flynn (and Banton?) are better fit to bring the ball up for initiating the offense (Barnes lost the ball on his post up). However, none of them are point guards in setting up plays for Barnes.

Meanwhile, the lack of shooting really hurt our spacing. I think David Johnson is really below average on both end, while Banton was good in team defense (alright against summer league in man defense). As for playing Barnes with our starters, he can probably defend (still need some adjustment against man defense), but the spacing with VanVleet and Dragic would be better (I see Dragic who can setup plays instead of Trent or Flynn).

As for his development, I am not surprised corner 3 is his role in the first year (free throw, against closeout, pullup, etc.), and based on the development of OG, we may develop his finishing at rim first (missing a lot of gimme, and lack the soft touch), before he can do more with the ball.

I hope we are not developing another OG with that development regiment. We should mold Barnes as a Giannis and not a OG… IMO Barnes should be developed as a big PG, take advantage of his size against 6’6 and below opponents. What’s the point of playing him as a SF/PF where he can’t take advantage using his size against guys who are similar in height/weight?

Bobby said in his interview that they are developing Barnes to be a playoff forward who can defend, handle, pass and score which to me is like Siakam.

In the interim Bobby said he would be a defender and ball mover. Obviously with FVV, Siakam, OG they don't think we need a primary. Scottie will fill a role to be a defensive chaos creator. I just hope he plays with non bench guys too.

[Jadoogar]

you should see the Magic board - they are laughing at this forum for being ripe with dissent and having a mental disorder for comparing Suggs and Barnes.

That Orlando made no effort to trade up to get Suggs, means they would probably be just as happy with Barnes too.

Yup.

They are just go-happy at the moment and elated they got Suggs when I guess he was the general consensus and popular draft pick - though some draft boards had Barnes higher. Like everyone in the green room at the draft thought Suggs was the pick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is going to happen with every fanbase. You don't think Pistons fans are going to be concerned if Green or Mobley turns out better? Or OKC fans losing their mind after watching sengun?

[Raps in 4]

you should see the Magic board - they are laughing at this forum for being ripe with dissent and having a mental disorder for comparing Suggs and Barnes.

That Orlando made no effort to trade up to get Suggs, means they would probably be just as happy with Barnes too.

Masai and Weltman scouted Barnes together at the combine. He may have gotten a sense of Masai's excitement and thought he was likely to draft him.

[traps#10]

I guess the ball handling of Flynn (and Banton?) are better fit to bring the ball up for initiating the offense (Barnes lost the ball on his post up). However, none of them are point guards in setting up plays for Barnes.

Meanwhile, the lack of shooting really hurt our spacing. I think David Johnson is really below average on both end, while Banton was good in team defense (alright against summer league in man defense). As for playing Barnes with our starters, he can probably defend (still need some adjustment against man defense), but the spacing with VanVleet and Dragic would be better (I see Dragic who can setup plays instead of Trent or Flynn).

As for his development, I am not surprised corner 3 is his role in the first year (free throw, against closeout, pullup, etc.), and based on the development of OG, we may develop his finishing at rim first (missing a lot of gimme, and lack the soft touch), before he can do more with the ball.

I hope we are not developing another OG with that development regiment. We should mold Barnes as a Giannis and not a OG… IMO Barnes should be developed as a big PG, take advantage of his size against 6’6 and below opponents. What’s the point of playing him as a SF/PF where he can’t take advantage using his size against guys who are similar in height/weight?

Bobby said in his interview that they are developing Barnes to be a playoff forward who can defend, handle, pass and score which to me is like Siakam.

In the interim Bobby said he would be a defender and ball mover. Obviously with FVV, Siakam, OG they don't think we need a primary. Scottie will fill a role to be a defensive chaos creator. I just hope he plays with non bench guys too.

Sounds like we are trying to aim for a Draymond Green Type rather than a Giannis type then

[Raps in 4]

I hope we are not developing another OG with that development regiment. We should mold Barnes as a Giannis and not a OG… IMO Barnes should be developed as a big PG, take advantage of his size against 6’6 and below opponents. What’s the point of playing him as a SF/PF where he can’t take advantage using his size against guys who are similar in height/weight?

Bobby said in his interview that they are developing Barnes to be a playoff forward who can defend, handle, pass and score which to me is like Siakam.

In the interim Bobby said he would be a defender and ball mover. Obviously with FVV, Siakam, OG they don't think we need a primary. Scottie will fill a role to be a defensive chaos creator. I just hope he plays with non bench guys too.

Sounds like we are trying to aim for a Draymond Green Type rather than a Giannis type then

I mean, that's the player we drafted. His skillset is much closer to Draymond than Giannis. Watching Barnes in college, there is no way anyone could think he projects as the next Giannis.

[Raps in 4]

you should see the Magic board - they are laughing at this forum for being ripe with dissent and having a mental disorder for comparing Suggs and Barnes.

We'd be doing the same if our roles were reversed.

[Tha Cynic]

Another angle

Probably the only good play of the entire game from our side lol.

This is probably because the coaches had some of our main players try new things to see what they needed to work on. A lot of what the main players were doing were things that aren't their strength.

[Jadoogar]

Bobby said in his interview that they are developing Barnes to be a playoff forward who can defend, handle, pass and score which to me is like Siakam.

In the interim Bobby said he would be a defender and ball mover. Obviously with FVV, Siakam, OG they don't think we need a primary. Scottie will fill a role to be a defensive chaos creator. I just hope he plays with non bench guys too.

Sounds like we are trying to aim for a Draymond Green Type rather than a Giannis type then

I mean, that's the player we drafted. His skillset is much closer to Draymond than Giannis. Watching Barnes in college, there is no way anyone could think he projects as the next Giannis.

There's also no such thing as a "Giannis type". He's one of the most unique players in history. It's like trying to draft a "lebron type".

[traps#10]

Bobby said in his interview that they are developing Barnes to be a playoff forward who can defend, handle, pass and score which to me is like Siakam.

In the interim Bobby said he would be a defender and ball mover. Obviously with FVV, Siakam, OG they don't think we need a primary. Scottie will fill a role to be a defensive chaos creator. I just hope he plays with non bench guys too.

Sounds like we are trying to aim for a Draymond Green Type rather than a Giannis type then

I mean, that's the player we drafted. His skillset is much closer to Draymond than Giannis. Watching Barnes in college, there is no way anyone could think he projects as the next Giannis.

Barnes said it himself, he views his game more of a Magic Johnson type. Someone who brings up the ba and creates with his vision using his advantages size/height at the 1 spot

[Indeed]

I hope we are not developing another OG with that development regiment. We should mold Barnes as a Giannis and not a OG… IMO Barnes should be developed as a big PG, take advantage of his size against 6’6 and below opponents. What’s the point of playing him as a SF/PF where he can’t take advantage using his size against guys who are similar in height/weight?

Bobby said in his interview that they are developing Barnes to be a playoff forward who can defend, handle, pass and score which to me is like Siakam.

In the interim Bobby said he would be a defender and ball mover. Obviously with FVV, Siakam, OG they don't think we need a primary. Scottie will fill a role to be a defensive chaos creator. I just hope he plays with non bench guys too.

Sounds like we are trying to aim for a Draymond Green Type rather than a Giannis type then

I don't see the comparison in Giannis, and more in Ben Simmons than Siakam or OG as well (isn't his shooting better than Green?). Perhaps that is how I see the definition of Webster as well (in terms of defend, handle, pass and score). 3 point shooting is still needed as our team may not have a primary creator, and being a ball mover needs a bit of shooting.

[Tor_Raps]

Another angle

Probably the only good play of the entire game from our side lol.

This is probably because the coaches had some of our main players try new things to see what they needed to work on. A lot of what the main players were doing were things that aren't their strength.

Ya I understand that summer league is meant to work areas that are weak for players who already have guaranteed contracts. Nonetheless, it was still ugly to watch as those areas are extremely weak.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

you should see the Magic board - they are laughing at this forum for being ripe with dissent and having a mental disorder for comparing Suggs and Barnes.

We'd be doing the same if our roles were reversed.

most likely. didn't say we wouldn't be doing the same thing lol. its just magnified when there is just more of this fan base so it seems extreme in all manners on RealGM

[lolwut]

Sounds like we are trying to aim for a Draymond Green Type rather than a Giannis type then

I mean, that's the player we drafted. His skillset is much closer to Draymond than Giannis. Watching Barnes in college, there is no way anyone could think he projects as the next Giannis.

Watching Giannis in Greece, there's no way anyone would have projected him as the next Giannis either. Otherwise, he wouldn't have been drafted 15th.

Isn't this video reminiscent of Barnes' scouting videos?

Watch on YouTube

I'm not saying Barnes projects to have a similar career trajectory as Giannis, but saying he definitely doesn't based on his body of work so far completely ignores what Giannis, himself, was originally projected to do. Giannis overachieved.

[traps#10]

Sounds like we are trying to aim for a Draymond Green Type rather than a Giannis type then

I mean, that's the player we drafted. His skillset is much closer to Draymond than Giannis. Watching Barnes in college, there is no way anyone could think he projects as the next Giannis.

Watching Giannis in Greece, there's no way anyone would have projected him as the next Giannis either. Otherwise, he wouldn't have been drafted 15th.

Yup exactly, Giannis wouldn’t be Giannis today if he didn’t get tons of minutes and played the PG earlier on in his career. Those early Bucks teams were bad, but they sacrificed wins in order to develop Giannis, now look at him now…

[LBJKB24MJ23]

he definitely can work on his handles, a little rough around the edges but serviceable. a lot of the GSW players trying to disrupt him or steal the ball while he was bringing the ball up and he managed to evade them all with his crafty ball handling, even though it didn't look polish.

that fadeaway was nice.

he lets the game come to him

super emotional type of player that isn't afraid of expressing his emotions

he doesn't try to rush many things while he's on the court

did a good enough job on Moody and Kuminga for their bad shooting night when he did guard them

he's less explosive than or Kuminga is that much more explosive than him, he's not going to the rim with authority in many cases - at least when there is traffic, I.e. good players create contact under and near the basket to get space. Kuminga has some close highlight dunk attempts out of nowhere.

[NinjaBro]

I thought David Johnson looked TERRIBLE, like Bruno Cabocolo bad. Barnes was very underwhelming and looked like a replacement player out there. Getting nervous here, not gonna lie.

[OAKLEY_2]

I want to sit down with Masai, order a couple beers and have him explain that pick to me. Because I don’t understand it. There must be something that happened behind the scenes that we don’t know about.

You not understanding the pick, doesn’t make it the wrong pick.

You also thinking its a bad pick is not great rationale if it’s based on SL play. Our scouts are pretty good at their job and projecting what players will be down the road based on whatever criteria they use.

You saying you don’t understand the pick assumes you know what a 19 year old Scottie Barnes will be when he’s 24-25 over the front office who has pretty good credibility. I don’t think you can draw that conclusion tbh.

Frankly the history of Raptors picks suggests the opposite. The guys people didn't understand -Villanueva, Hoffa, etc. - were because they weren't obviously the best players available. When we picked that way - like DeRozan - people were excited and got what management was doing.

Barnes looks fine to me. But he was not clearly the obvious player and its wishful thinking to assume he will become that.

Management drafted him because they are more focused on the physical profile of guys than their actual play. That to me is a fine choice later in the draft but a real risk early. So I don't think they've earned deferrence on their criteria.

Nice try. I thought for sure Suggs was BPA. Raps though look at these evaluations from every conceivable angle. M+B's body of work from scouting , drafting and development is such that mere mentioning Hoffa or Araujo or implying their criteria is flawed is absolute crazy talk. So many analysts were high on Barnes that saying Raps were alone in some flawed criteria matrix is not just b.s. it is reactionary throwing sh at the wall b.s.

[Indeed]

How do you see Wainright 2 games into the Summer League?
From our team, 7th to 9th rotation guy? 10th to 12th rotation guy?

[MavCarter]

Our board views must be at an all time high with magic fans coming here to watch the suggs fanboys have a meltdown after every game

[TheYellowMamba]

I thought David Johnson looked TERRIBLE, like Bruno Cabocolo bad. Barnes was very underwhelming and looked like a replacement player out there. Getting nervous here, not gonna lie.

It's only 2 summer league games, but Suggs is obviously better than Barnes at this point. If a 4th pick ceiling is Draymond Green, we have failed this draft big time.