We don't have a plan (and it is pretty obvious)

[Blazer77]

I'm a diehard fan. It is probably important that I start with that.

Each offseason hope renews; much of it anchored around the superstar prime of Damian Lillard, the consistent offensive output of CJ McCollum (as well as his speculated trade value), and the teasing promise of a young homegrown asset (right now that's Simons, and it used to be Collins). Sprinkle in the enticing game of Jusuf Nurkic as that "third piece," and you've got the fan-friendly core.

Each offseason, our GM excitedly touts the genius of his acquisitions via all of the "tools" he has, and how these players have a similar career arc to Dame and CJ and that THIS roster, THIS version of the roster is primed to make a deep run.

Last season we drank from the fountain of hype about Robert Covington (he's 1st team All-NBA!), Derrick Jones Jr, and a midseason trade for Norman Powell. We celebrated the return of fan-favorite Enes Kanter. THIS roster is on Damian's career arc. We're flexible and Terry has lots of roster options. Wow, we're deep. And if our young players can develop, we'll make a deep run. Preseason talk is of a championship. Alongside this we took fliers on reclamation projects in Harry Giles, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson and TJ Leaf, and talked player development of Nasir, CJ Elleby and Simons, even though we're not known for our ability to develop young talent.

So with season after season of first-round exits, and a clear understanding of who we are as a roster, the ceiling of our roster talent, and the potential (or lack thereof) of our draft picks, we're clearly stagnant and set adrift in the ocean of NBA mediocrity. We sit squarely in the second tier of franchises.

And now it is apparent that we don't have a plan.

We're following the same scripted formula:

Hype: We resigned Norman Powell (hey he's on the same career arc as Dame!), Tony Snell (he's the perfect 3 and D guy for us and he's on Dame's career arc), Cody Zeller (great shooting big man, it'll be hard to defend our second unit); on second thought we should probably slot him into reclamation project category.

Reclamation projects: Have you seen our summer league roster (Faried, Beasly and Jordon Crawford, oh my), plus signings: Cody Zeller, Ben McLemore. Hey Neil, do these "move the needle?" Also Derrick Jones Jr fits squarely into this category as well.

Player Development: CJ Elleby, Anfernee Simons, Nasir Little, Trendon Watford, Gary Trent Jr. . . oh wait that's right, we did develop him into a solid contributor and then traded him for a player just a bit older (career arc), and who cost about the same and who does the same things.

In Conclusion
This franchise is starting to look rudderless. Absent a major trade, we're significantly worse than last year's roster, and X factors such as continuity (coaching change, roster turnover) and chemistry (McLemore, Beasley if he makes the roster) are no longer in our favor.

We're undersized, not great individual or team defenders, and probably not very deep.

It's probably time to face the music on Olshey. He's had a good run. But we're about to waste Dame's prime with overhyped players, reclamation projects, players we won't or can't develop, and limited cap space and none of our own draft picks to balance the terms of a trade or a rebuild.

Stay the course can't be our plan. It's time to go big, rebuild or go home.

[Norm2953]

The obvious plan will be to trade Dame when he asks for a trade. They are playing a waiting game with
the Sixers but its obvious Dame will be traded for NO isn't willing to do whatever it takes to improve
the roster to satisfy Dame.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

Yup, feels good to let it all out but this is now apparent to anyone paying attention.


My best possible interpretation is that Olshey intends to make moves but has been stymied by reports that Dame wants out so other teams don't really want to help us out.


But honestly based off history he probably really just feels like another season with this roster is totally fine. Everywhere I go I see fans clamoring for his head but this hasn't filtered up to ownership for whatever reason. Probably because their bottom line hasn't hurt despite the public out cry.

[Norm2953]

One can only imagine what Paul (Allen) would have ordered done this off season.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

One can only imagine what Paul (Allen) would have ordered done this off season.

Miss having an owner that was interested and invested. Jody trying not to step on his legacy and change too much maybe but I bet Paul would have fired Olshey already.

[BNM]

Last season we drank from the fountain of hype about Robert Covington (he's 1st team All-NBA!)

If you drank from that fountain, you have no one to blame but yourself. Do your research. Robert Covington has never been 1st team All-NBA (or 2nd team or 3rd team). He was 1st team All Defense in 2017-18, but that's not nearly the same thing as being 1st team All-NBA.

Hype: Tony Snell (he's the perfect 3 and D guy for us and he's on Dame's career arc)

Now you're just making stuff up to bolster your narrative. I have never heard anyone here, or in any other forum, say Tony Snell is the perfect anything. Everyone knows he's a limited role player. That's why he was available for the vet min.

Tony Snell's main claim to fame: https://www.sportscasting.com/the-infamous-game-tony-snell-played-28-minutes-and-didnt-record-a-single-stat/

"Wilt Chamberlain scored 100 points in 1962 in what is still considered the greatest statistical achievement in NBA history. Over 50 years later, Tony Snell recorded the worst statistical achievement by playing 28 minutes in a game for the Milwaukee Bucks and failing to record a single stat. Zero points, zero rebounds, zero assists, zero blocks, and zero steals while playing most of the game. It sounds impossible, but Snell really did it."

Again, do your research before you start making stuff up, or site an actual link where Neil Olshey, or anyone else ever said; "he's the perfect 3 and D guy for us and he's on Dame's career arc". Not even Tony Snell's mom believes that.

[HoopsFanAZ]

Blazers this year vs. Blazers last year

Factoring out last year's injuries and resulting record ... looking at likely, reasonable performance ... even some growth by the youth ...
then it's a tie. I prefer Zeller to Kanter. Having DJJ opt-in keeps a $9 million contract in the building to trade in a package. Keeping Powell makes (1) trading CJ easier, (2) keeps talent in the building, and (3) forestalls (hopefully) Lillard asking out. An instagram post from today by Lillard is apparently stirring up speculation ... again. The 2nd rounder and 2-way look okay for what they cost. [Apparently, there's information about Blakeney and a poker game and shenanigans ... and we'll see how that rumor/report goes.]

The NEGATIVES? No trades involving CJ and/or Nurkic. Will the 2021 now 2022 Blazers be better? Maybe. Worse? Less likely. Sports media promotes offseason moves and LOVES all over some teams ... epic predictions ... sure fire contenders ... and staying largely the same is getting passed up. Maybe. So, I'm not going to defend the lack of a trade(s) or the insanity of letting Lillard even get near to asking out. I'll wait and see what happens and hope Olshey is not a giant ***hat.

[BNM]

Blazers this year vs. Blazers last year

Factoring out last year's injuries and resulting record ... looking at likely, reasonable performance ... even some growth by the youth ...
then it's a tie. I prefer Zeller to Kanter. Having DJJ opt-in keeps a $9 million contract in the building to trade in a package. Keeping Powell makes (1) trading CJ easier, (2) keeps talent in the building, and (3) forestalls (hopefully) Lillard asking out. An instagram post from today by Lillard is apparently stirring up speculation ... again. The 2nd rounder and 2-way look okay for what they cost. [Apparently, there's information about Blakeney and a poker game and shenanigans ... and we'll see how that rumor/report goes.]

The NEGATIVES? No trades involving CJ and/or Nurkic. Will the 2021 now 2022 Blazers be better? Maybe. Worse? Less likely. Sports media promotes offseason moves and LOVES all over some teams ... epic predictions ... sure fire contenders ... and staying largely the same is getting passed up. Maybe. So, I'm not going to defend the lack of a trade(s) or the insanity of letting Lillard even get near to asking out. I'll wait and see what happens and hope Olshey is not a giant ***hat.

Hopefully, Nurk will be healthy and return close to his pre-injury (broken leg) level of play. It's a contract year for Nurk, so hopefully he will be focused and motivated. He's been through a lot the last two years (multiple injuries, death of his grandmother and other family members).

We're losing scoring off the bench in Melo and Kanter, but good lord was our 2nd unit defense awful. Guys like Snell and Zeller will improve the 2nd unit defense, but that's not enough to move any needles.

We really, Really, REALLY need to trade CJ. My preferred target is Siakam, but that will require getting a 3rd or 4th team involved. I'm not big on Ben Simmons, but I could see him as a viable a PF paired with Dame, but he's not a great fit next to Nurk. Ideally, you'd want to pair him with a rim protecting stretch 5, because Nurk and Simmons together would kill your spacing (which is why I prefer Siakam).

I really love the 3-team trade I proposed in the CJ Trade thread that would get us back Siakam and Boucher, while keeping Nurk. I love the 3-man rotation up front, as Boucher can back up both the 4 (next to Nurk) and 5 (next to Siakam) spots. But that's my pipe dream.

Ultimately, Neil needs to do as my father used to say and either ****, or get off the pot. Either trade CJ by opening night, or be fired.

[monopoman]

The only way a Sixers and Portland trade works in my eyes is if it's CJ for Simmons with some extra picks to sweeten it for the Sixers. Any Dame trade to them seems horrendous in my eyes, Simmons for Dame is a massive downgrade in talent, and we would have little use for Simmons in that scenario.

Simmons comes off like one of the biggest prima donna players in the NBA, dude doesn't work on his game and he seems content with where he is as an NBA player. I really don't want to get a player that combines a sense of entitlement with a lack of work.

Not to mention the man has made it abundantly clear he doesn't want to go to Portland or Toronto and he could cause issues if we forced him to be here.

[BNM]

The only way a Sixers and Portland trade works in my eyes is if it's CJ for Simmons with some extra picks to sweeten it for the Sixers. Any Dame trade to them seems horrendous in my eyes, Simmons for Dame is a massive downgrade in talent, and we would have little use for Simmons in that scenario.

Simmons comes off like one of the biggest prima donna players in the NBA, dude doesn't work on his game and he seems content with where he is as an NBA player. I really don't want to get a player that combines a sense of entitlement with a lack of work.

Not to mention the man has made it abundantly clear he doesn't want to go to Portland or Toronto and he could cause issues if we forced him to be here.

Which is why I think any trade involving POR and PHI will also include TOR and maybe GSW. If Simmons wasn't being such a prima dona, TOR would be a good fit for him. He is young enough to be the player they build around. In PHI he's a terrible fit and a clear second fiddle to Embiid. TOR is in full blown rebuild mode, so they can carefully construct a roster to maximize Simmons' talents while hiding/compensating for his glaring weaknesses.

[JasonStern]

One can only imagine what Paul (Allen) would have ordered done this off season.

Miss having an owner that was interested and invested. Jody trying not to step on his legacy and change too much maybe but I bet Paul would have fired Olshey already.

And this is what most people overlook. Jody is not a basketball GM and Paul Allen's business and philanthropic operations were vast. If the Blazers are making the playoffs and not losing money, there's a decent chance that Vulcan Inc. believes Olshey is doing a good enough job.

The only way a Sixers and Portland trade works in my eyes is if it's CJ for Simmons with some extra picks to sweeten it for the Sixers.

In before CJ for Tobias Harris.

[BNM]

In before CJ for Tobias Harris.

Ugh! Please NO!!!!

This is the kind of desperation trade Neil might attempt to appease Dame, only to have the Vulcan bean counters veto it after taking one look as Harris' contract. Compared to Harris, CJ is a **** bargain! You can't say that about many players in the league.

[JasonStern]

In before CJ for Tobias Harris.

Ugh! Please NO!!!!

This is the kind of desperation trade Neil might attempt to appease Dame, only to have the Vulcan bean counters veto it after taking one look as Harris' contract. Compared to Harris, CJ is a **** bargain! You can't say that about many players in the league.

Tobias Harris had a good playoff run this year.

Is he the answer to Portland's problems? Obviously no. But CJ didn't exactly boost his value getting outplayed by Austin Rivers and Facundo Campazzo.

[BNM]

In before CJ for Tobias Harris.

Ugh! Please NO!!!!

This is the kind of desperation trade Neil might attempt to appease Dame, only to have the Vulcan bean counters veto it after taking one look as Harris' contract. Compared to Harris, CJ is a **** bargain! You can't say that about many players in the league.

Tobias Harris had a good playoff run this year.

Is he the answer to Portland's problems? Obviously no. But CJ didn't exactly boost his value getting outplayed by Austin Rivers and Facundo Campazzo.

He's kind of the PF version of CJ (who has had multiple good playoff runs in the past). He can score, but not terribly efficient, isn't a good defender and is a weak rebounder for his size/position. He's a 2nd or 3rd option who is paid like a 1st option (and makes CJ look like a bargain).

He's bigger than CJ and not redundant, but not really better in any way that matters and paid $5 million more per season.

I'd really love to see a solid 2-way player at the 4 spot, which is why I am Harris averse (well that, and his contract).

[DusterBuster]

Yup, feels good to let it all out but this is now apparent to anyone paying attention.

My best possible interpretation is that Olshey intends to make moves but has been stymied by reports that Dame wants out so other teams don't really want to help us out.

But honestly based off history he probably really just feels like another season with this roster is totally fine. Everywhere I go I see fans clamoring for his head but this hasn't filtered up to ownership for whatever reason. Probably because their bottom line hasn't hurt despite the public out cry.

This has been my read as well.

That said....

I'm still confused why the Blazers name hasn't popped up in other rumors. Even from a "saving face" POV, that would make sense. The teams name can still pop up in trade rumors even if they're getting hung up on left and right by the rest of the league by teams who are trying to force a Dame trade.

I truly do believe all the media attention around Dame has made Olshey's job 120% harder, even for the most anti-Olshey people, you can't deny that as a pretty clear fact. That said, the fact you don't even see the Blazers name as "interested" in a player like Simmons, Siakiam, ... (hell, Kevin Love?!) etc... that is pretty baffling to me.

He might not even be wrong with his gamble. Maybe the Blazers just get lucky with a really healthy season, maybe they are improved with a coach who's preaching defense, maybe the bench is a bit more improved without being anchored by two defensive holes (Melo and Kanter... love them but the defense was brutal), maybe a few young guys take steps in the right direction, maybe they get one more value veteran signing like a Millsap... some or all those things COULD happen. It's the NBA, anything can happen, god knows no one expected a Suns v Bucks finals this year. However, that's a lot of "maybe" to be banking the future of your franchise player on, especially when that player explicitly is asking for more than those maybe's.

I feel like Olshey is stopping on a 17 and just hoping the dealer busts.

[JasonStern]

My best possible interpretation is that Olshey intends to make moves but has been stymied by reports that Dame wants out so other teams don't really want to help us out.

This has been my read as well.

Stop. That's just the narrative Olshey told Jason Quick to regurgitate to deflect blame. No competent GM is sitting around going, "Wow! Olshey made a trade offer that benefits my team. Better turn it down! Wouldn't want to risk looking like a competent GM making my team better if Dame might get traded!"

The truth that some people have a hard time admitting is that Portland simply doesn't have great assets to offer to make some amazing trade. Our 1sts are all mid-to-late 1sts. CJ is overpaid and is a win-now piece that doesn't have much value to any team attempting a rebuild. Nurkić is expiring, and any trade would necessitate a replacement. Covington is expiring, and any trade would necessitate a replacement - plus that trade cost us two 1sts so we cashed those chips in. DJJ has negative value on his current contract. The Blazers whiffed on Collins and Swanigan. Simons and Little have shown some promise, but neither have lit the league up, have the value most Blazers fans expect, and trading them still requires cheap contracts fo fill their roster spots. Elleby and Brown were mid-to-late 2nd round picks for a reason and haven't shown anything. GTJ was the one positive draft move Portland made, and we already cashed that chip in on Powell. This is what happens when you don't draft well and make poor free agent signings.

Seriously, you guys imagine some GM going "Sure would love to trade Portland an in-his-prime all-star for DJJ, Simons, Little, and 1-2 1sts in the 20+ range, but darn it! Dame might get traded!" That seems more probable to you than Olshey blowing smoke up everyone's ---?

But go ahead, blame Dame being unhappy with the roster construction for this mess.

[Blazer77]

Thanks bro. I'll try to keep things up to your standards. You are right. A simple mistake on the All-NBA, ALL Defensive. . .which is actually what I meant, but there are two types of people; those who can extrapolate data from incomplete or missing information and





With respect to the Tony Snell comment: You can Google this yourself and read up on articles discussing how he is the prototypical, stereotypical, serviceable, near-ideal, consummate, 3 and D wing. "Perfect," is a farcical statement acknowledging our unreasonable fan expectations, and also reinforcing how Olshey has been positioning his acquisitions with idealism. If you've been following this team long enough, you can easily substitute others into this "oversold" category. I did some research for you. . see Evan Turner, or the player he was traded for, Kent Bazemore. By the way that's not a complete list. I don't want to agitate you for having an incomplete list. There are other examples. Maybe you'll have an opinion about the basketball analysis of this statement, but I might be hoping for too much.

Drinking from the fountain of hype. . so you realize that this entire narrative is that the hype is being served by the GM and we as fans have bought that hype. Surely you've read countless posts or threads on these subjects in all of your research. This grouped narrative is meant to account for that, and not represent my own delusion on the subject. I have other delusions, but this is meant to be representative of the fanbase, and that we as fans are tired of drinking from the fountain of hype.

Also, as your slinging out recco's I'm underwhelmed by your lack of citation for quoting Tony Snell's mom. I couldn't find the link there. I do, however, know that you don't want to mess with Tony's mom, and that she's got his back: https://nba.nbcsports.com/2014/01/26/tony-snells-mom-sounds-awesome/

Do you have any basketball analysis on this? Anything where I've mischaracterized Olshey? Or anything about the main subject: "We don't have a plan."

Do you think we have a plan?
Do you think we don't have a plan?
Do you like that plan or not plan?
If the plan we have is the plan you like, why?
If we don't have a plan and this is the plan you like, why?

Last season we drank from the fountain of hype about Robert Covington (he's 1st team All-NBA!)

If you drank from that fountain, you have no one to blame but yourself. Do your research. Robert Covington has never been 1st team All-NBA (or 2nd team or 3rd team). He was 1st team All Defense in 2017-18, but that's not nearly the same thing as being 1st team All-NBA.

Hype: Tony Snell (he's the perfect 3 and D guy for us and he's on Dame's career arc)

Now you're just making stuff up to bolster your narrative. I have never heard anyone here, or in any other forum, say Tony Snell is the perfect anything. Everyone knows he's a limited role player. That's why he was available for the vet min.

Tony Snell's main claim to fame: https://www.sportscasting.com/the-infamous-game-tony-snell-played-28-minutes-and-didnt-record-a-single-stat/

"Wilt Chamberlain scored 100 points in 1962 in what is still considered the greatest statistical achievement in NBA history. Over 50 years later, Tony Snell recorded the worst statistical achievement by playing 28 minutes in a game for the Milwaukee Bucks and failing to record a single stat. Zero points, zero rebounds, zero assists, zero blocks, and zero steals while playing most of the game. It sounds impossible, but Snell really did it."

Again, do your research before you start making stuff up, or site an actual link where Neil Olshey, or anyone else ever said; "he's the perfect 3 and D guy for us and he's on Dame's career arc". Not even Tony Snell's mom believes that.

[DusterBuster]

My best possible interpretation is that Olshey intends to make moves but has been stymied by reports that Dame wants out so other teams don't really want to help us out.

This has been my read as well.

Stop. That's just the narrative Olshey told Jason Quick to regurgitate to deflect blame. No competent GM is sitting around going, "Wow! Olshey made a trade offer that benefits my team. Better turn it down! Wouldn't want to risk looking like a competent GM making my team better if Dame might get traded!"

The truth that some people have a hard time admitting is that Portland simply doesn't have great assets to offer to make some amazing trade. Our 1sts are all mid-to-late 1sts. CJ is overpaid and is a win-now piece that doesn't have much value to any team attempting a rebuild. Nurkić is expiring, and any trade would necessitate a replacement. Covington is expiring, and any trade would necessitate a replacement - plus that trade cost us two 1sts so we cashed those chips in. DJJ has negative value on his current contract. The Blazers whiffed on Collins and Swanigan. Simons and Little have shown some promise, but neither have lit the league up, have the value most Blazers fans expect, and trading them still requires cheap contracts fo fill their roster spots. Elleby and Brown were mid-to-late 2nd round picks for a reason and haven't shown anything. GTJ was the one positive draft move Portland made, and we already cashed that chip in on Powell. This is what happens when you don't draft well and make poor free agent signings.

Seriously, you guys imagine some GM going "Sure would love to trade Portland an in-his-prime all-star for DJJ, Simons, Little, and 1-2 1sts in the 20+ range, but darn it! Dame might get traded!" That seems more probable to you than Olshey blowing smoke up everyone's ---?

But go ahead, blame Dame being unhappy with the roster construction for this mess.

Cool your jets there bub. I'm not giving Olshey as pass in any way shape or form, any of my posts this summer make that abundantly clear. That doesn't change the fact that these are very likely situations the team is dealing with this summer, but they also are ALL completely unforced by Olshey's mismanagement. The reason that theory is likely accurate is because of the box Olshey put himself in, so feel free to relax there guy, we aren't giving him a pass for that even if we are willing to acknowledge that might be accurate.

[Blazer77]

CJ is overpaid and is a win-now piece that doesn't have much value to any team attempting a rebuild.

Totally true. Rebuilding teams should stay away from CJ. However, there are some teams who are at the beginning of their climb, and they might be enticed to give up significant value in return. And, there are teams who feel they underachieved last season, and these teams may also be enticed to give significant value in return.

The X factor for me is our motivation.

Is our plan to:
1. Stay the course (probably)
2. Move our key players (CJ and Nurk are in this category)
3. Rebuild.

That third one is tough.

But in those first two scenarios, CJ has tremendous value (in my opinion).

[BlazersBroncos]

This is all true.

We need to just move CJ for Harris and a piece (Milton? Thybulle?) and accept we dont have the assets for Pascal or Simmons.

Hell, I am starting to actually prefer Harris to Simmons, who just seems like an aloof loser to me. Tobias actually wants to win it seems. But CJ for Harris is literally the only move I can see right now that could buy us a year, maybe 2, with Dame.

As it stands, I put Dame remaining a Blazer past this season at below 50%.