Official Trade Thread - Part XLI

[payitforward]

I wonder if we can still make a play for Reddish at some point. Atlanta has too many rookie salary guys who will soon want to be paid. They can't pay them all. Reddish could be the odd man out. They might be interested in trading him for someone with a long term, cost-controlled contract like Kuzma. It gets us a true SF, we don't really have one on this roster.

Pass. Reddish is awful. We have a deep rotation full of mature, hard working professional. We are going to win a lot of games by out working people and feasting on 2nd units. So the deadline becomes a bit more interesting, especially if Rui breaks out as a Tobias Harris type contributor.
I'd rather hang on to Kuz for a bigger trade, or take on a dead weight contract and get a pick if we flounder... anything in between is of no interest to me TBH.

Reddish (whom I wanted no part of in the 2019 draft) poses a classic conundrum. He's exceptionally talented, as he showed in the playoffs this year. There can be no doubt of that. Yet, both in college & overall in his 2 years as a pro, he hasn't produced. Bad his first year & no better his 2d year.

To put it another way, he's the kind of player that gets GMs fired! You want to acquire him because of his upside, & of course he'll come cheap for a guy with his talent. If he's the one out of many for whom the light goes on, the one who actually realizes some significant part of his potential, you look great.

More likely, however, he doesn't do that, & you've wasted whatever it cost to get him while also missing whatever opportunities you could have followed if you'd turned away from him.

To put it slightly differently: if Ernie were still our GM, Cam Reddish would already be a Wizard!

[Ruzious]

Of course, it is smart to target players who you project to improve - especially when they're talented. Get them when they're affordable. That's why I was targeting Miles Bridges - who I think will be a star.

[DCZards]

I wonder if we can still make a play for Reddish at some point. Atlanta has too many rookie salary guys who will soon want to be paid. They can't pay them all. Reddish could be the odd man out. They might be interested in trading him for someone with a long term, cost-controlled contract like Kuzma. It gets us a true SF, we don't really have one on this roster.

Pass. Reddish is awful. We have a deep rotation full of mature, hard working professional. We are going to win a lot of games by out working people and feasting on 2nd units. So the deadline becomes a bit more interesting, especially if Rui breaks out as a Tobias Harris type contributor.
I'd rather hang on to Kuz for a bigger trade, or take on a dead weight contract and get a pick if we flounder... anything in between is of no interest to me TBH.

Reddish (whom I wanted no part of in the 2019 draft) poses a classic conundrum. He's exceptionally talented, as he showed in the playoffs this year. There can be no doubt of that. Yet, both in college & overall in his 2 years as a pro, he hasn't produced. Bad his first year & no better his 2d year.

To put it another way, he's the kind of player that gets GMs fired! You want to acquire him because of his upside, & of course he'll come cheap for a guy with his talent. If he's the one out of many for whom the light goes on, the one who actually realizes some significant part of his potential, you look great.

More likely, however, he doesn't do that, & you've wasted whatever it cost to get him while also missing whatever opportunities you could have followed if you'd turned away from him.

To put it slightly differently: if Ernie were still our GM, Cam Reddish would already be a Wizard!

You really have to put Reddish’s 2nd season in context. He had some good games early in the season and was showing the potential that made him a lottery pick.

Then he got hurt and really wasn’t healthy again until the second round of the playoffs. This might be a “buy low” opportunity to get a player with a ton of upside.

[penbeast0]

I wonder if we can still make a play for Reddish at some point. Atlanta has too many rookie salary guys who will soon want to be paid. They can't pay them all. Reddish could be the odd man out. They might be interested in trading him for someone with a long term, cost-controlled contract like Kuzma. It gets us a true SF, we don't really have one on this roster.

Pass. Reddish is awful. We have a deep rotation full of mature, hard working professional. We are going to win a lot of games by out working people and feasting on 2nd units. So the deadline becomes a bit more interesting, especially if Rui breaks out as a Tobias Harris type contributor.
I'd rather hang on to Kuz for a bigger trade, or take on a dead weight contract and get a pick if we flounder... anything in between is of no interest to me TBH.

Reddish (whom I wanted no part of in the 2019 draft) poses a classic conundrum. He's exceptionally talented, as he showed in the playoffs this year. There can be no doubt of that. Yet, both in college & overall in his 2 years as a pro, he hasn't produced. Bad his first year & no better his 2d year.

To put it another way, he's the kind of player that gets GMs fired! You want to acquire him because of his upside, & of course he'll come cheap for a guy with his talent. If he's the one out of many for whom the light goes on, the one who actually realizes some significant part of his potential, you look great.

More likely, however, he doesn't do that, & you've wasted whatever it cost to get him while also missing whatever opportunities you could have followed if you'd turned away from him.

To put it slightly differently: if Ernie were still our GM, Cam Reddish would already be a Wizard!

But, if we can get him for someone like Kuzma who seems to be superfluous then it might be worth taking a shot at him and letting him go at the end of the year if it doesn't work. IF nothing else it clears future years' salary.

[pcbothwel]

This might be a “buy low” opportunity to get a player with a ton of upside.

But... How? Solid man defender and streaky shooter, but his overall IQ and awareness are terrible. What upside is there for a poor rebounding wing that averages as many turnovers as assist, has negative on/off numbers, and has shot 32% from 3 in over 650 3PA in both college and the pros. The fact that he is a 31% shooter from 3-16 feet also shows little upside as he has no in between game.

Sure, trade for Reddish and MAYBE he becomes Oubre.
Again, Hard Pass.

[Dark Faze]

I think now would be the perfect time to target Towns.

I'd give up Deni, Hachimura, Bryant, Harrell, and am open to bargaining about draft assets, but its hard because they are likely to be on the losing end of pick swaps and we can't trade a pick until '25. I'd try to do the deal without it, but I would include it with top 4 protection if necessary.

Dimwit / Holiday
Beal / Neto
KCP / Kispert
Kuz / Bertans / Todd
Towns / Gafford

I've gone to this trade mentally because:

A. I don't have faith in Hachimura being worth keeping on the roster at an inflated value. Being realistically worth MLE, but due to being drafted + Japan hype + "potential" = inching closer to 20 mil a season. At some point you have to bet on what a guy will be and I'm not seeing it.

B. With the logjam the roster currently has, I don't think this is a shaping up to be a good situation at all for Deni's development. Read the writing on the wall--Tommy reached for two PG's this off-season and re-signed Neto, then reached for an athletic shooting PF.

I think the team would be pretty good. About as good as you could really hope for with Beal, and I think it'd result in him staying with us long term.

[Ruzious]

This might be a “buy low” opportunity to get a player with a ton of upside.

But... How? Solid man defender and streaky shooter, but his overall IQ and awareness are terrible. What upside is there for a poor rebounding wing that averages as many turnovers as assist, has negative on/off numbers, and has shot 32% from 3 in over 650 3PA in both college and the pros. The fact that he is a 31% shooter from 3-16 feet also shows little upside as he has no in between game.

Sure, trade for Reddish and MAYBE he becomes Oubre.
Again, Hard Pass.

Thing is - when he finally got healthy in the playoffs, he stepped up big time - and had his best game as a pro - while being matched up with Khris Middleton. Tbh, I don't have a good feel as to whether or not he'll become a good pro, but what he did was the kind of thing I'd look for in players that could go either way.

[Ruzious]

I think now would be the perfect time to target Towns.

I'd give up Deni, Hachimura, Bryant, Harrell, and am open to bargaining about draft assets, but its hard because they are likely to be on the losing end of pick swaps and we can't trade a pick until '25. I'd try to do the deal without it, but I would include it with top 4 protection if necessary.

Dimwit / Holiday
Beal / Neto
KCP / Kispert
Kuz / Bertans / Todd
Towns / Gafford

I've gone to this trade mentally because:

A. I don't have faith in Hachimura being worth keeping on the roster at an inflated value. Being realistically worth MLE, but due to being drafted + Japan hype + "potential" = inching closer to 20 mil a season. At some point you have to bet on what a guy will be and I'm not seeing it.

B. With the logjam the roster currently has, I don't think this is a shaping up to be a good situation at all for Deni's development. Read the writing on the wall--Tommy reached for two PG's this off-season and re-signed Neto, then reached for an athletic shooting PF.

I think the team would be pretty good. About as good as you could really hope for with Beal, and I think it'd result in him staying with us long term.

If we had a dominating defensive forward, Towns would be a great fit, but with our forwards... I don't see it. And Gafford made such a difference in our team - I don't see the point of giving him a smaller role this season. I'm interested to see if Jared Vanderbilt and Ed Davis complement Towns well this season.

[nate33]

I think now would be the perfect time to target Towns.

I'd give up Deni, Hachimura, Bryant, Harrell, and am open to bargaining about draft assets, but its hard because they are likely to be on the losing end of pick swaps and we can't trade a pick until '25. I'd try to do the deal without it, but I would include it with top 4 protection if necessary.

Dimwit / Holiday
Beal / Neto
KCP / Kispert
Kuz / Bertans / Todd
Towns / Gafford

I've gone to this trade mentally because:

A. I don't have faith in Hachimura being worth keeping on the roster at an inflated value. Being realistically worth MLE, but due to being drafted + Japan hype + "potential" = inching closer to 20 mil a season. At some point you have to bet on what a guy will be and I'm not seeing it.

B. With the logjam the roster currently has, I don't think this is a shaping up to be a good situation at all for Deni's development. Read the writing on the wall--Tommy reached for two PG's this off-season and re-signed Neto, then reached for an athletic shooting PF.

I think the team would be pretty good. About as good as you could really hope for with Beal, and I think it'd result in him staying with us long term.

Sure. That's a no-brainer from our end. But there's no chance Minnesota trades a dollar for four quarters. They're going to need a centerpiece in a Town's deal, not a handful of potential decent role players.

[queridiculo]

Thing is - when he finally got healthy in the playoffs, he stepped up big time - and had his best game as a pro - while being matched up with Khris Middleton. Tbh, I don't have a good feel as to whether or not he'll become a good pro, but what he did was the kind of thing I'd look for in players that could go either way.

Eh, one game does not make a career, and in situations like these I always ask myself, why would the team even make him available?

[queridiculo]

Sure. That's a no-brainer from our end. But there's no chance Minnesota trades a dollar for four quarters. They're going to need a centerpiece in a Town's deal, not a handful of potential decent role players.

It would essentially have to be a Towns goes nuclear type situation and he forces a deal with specific destinations in mind.

KAT doesn't strike me as that type of dude.

[Ruzious]

Thing is - when he finally got healthy in the playoffs, he stepped up big time - and had his best game as a pro - while being matched up with Khris Middleton. Tbh, I don't have a good feel as to whether or not he'll become a good pro, but what he did was the kind of thing I'd look for in players that could go either way.

Eh, one game does not make a career, and in situations like these I always ask myself, why would the team even make him available?

That's not what I said. It obviously doesn't make a career; it's a plus in projecting which way his career will go. I even said I'm not sold on him one way or the other.

[payitforward]

Of course, it is smart to target players who you project to improve - especially when they're talented. Get them when they're affordable. That's why I was targeting Miles Bridges - who I think will be a star.

I am 100% on board with this. I don't know that he'll be a star, but he is already very good.

Problem is... what do we have that they might want?

[payitforward]

Pass. Reddish is awful. We have a deep rotation full of mature, hard working professional. We are going to win a lot of games by out working people and feasting on 2nd units. So the deadline becomes a bit more interesting, especially if Rui breaks out as a Tobias Harris type contributor.
I'd rather hang on to Kuz for a bigger trade, or take on a dead weight contract and get a pick if we flounder... anything in between is of no interest to me TBH.

Reddish (whom I wanted no part of in the 2019 draft) poses a classic conundrum. He's exceptionally talented, as he showed in the playoffs this year. There can be no doubt of that. Yet, both in college & overall in his 2 years as a pro, he hasn't produced. Bad his first year & no better his 2d year.

To put it another way, he's the kind of player that gets GMs fired! You want to acquire him because of his upside, & of course he'll come cheap for a guy with his talent. If he's the one out of many for whom the light goes on, the one who actually realizes some significant part of his potential, you look great.

More likely, however, he doesn't do that, & you've wasted whatever it cost to get him while also missing whatever opportunities you could have followed if you'd turned away from him.

To put it slightly differently: if Ernie were still our GM, Cam Reddish would already be a Wizard!

You really have to put Reddish’s 2nd season in context. He had some good games early in the season and was showing the potential that made him a lottery pick.

Then he got hurt and really wasn’t healthy again until the second round of the playoffs. This might be a “buy low” opportunity to get a player with a ton of upside.

Well, as goes w/o saying, the lower the cost for a player with upside the more it's worth it to take a chance on him. Thus....

...if we can get him for someone like Kuzma....

...sure!

[payitforward]

For a while a couple of years ago, every off the wall trade idea had us acquiring Melo. After that, for another while, it was Cousins. Lately it's been KAT.

This team is never going to contend by buying a "superstar." We are going to contend by drafting better than we have done for the last 3 years (at least), by acquiring young & developing assets, & by being good at player development.

To put it another way, the competition we have to win is off the floor not on it. Win that, & we'll start winning on the floor. Lose repeatedly in the draft, & we'll never be a really good team.

We have accomplished one great thing this off season -- we moved Russell & got tradable assets back for him. At least we hope they're tradable. This completed the single most important post-Ernie goal -- to move on from the John Wall era.

Of the 3 guys we got, Kuzma is the most important to trade if at all possible. Harrell is expiring, & KCP is on a shorter contract than Kuzma & is a better player as well.

In return for Kuzma we need to get 1 or more of the following kinds of assets: draft picks, expiring players, & rookies/2d year guys -- young talent, I mean.

To be brutally honest, nothing else matters except what I've listed above. Do the above, & we should become significantly better. Don't do it, & there is nothing that will put this team on a track of consistent improvement & competitiveness.

[Ruzious]

Of course, it is smart to target players who you project to improve - especially when they're talented. Get them when they're affordable. That's why I was targeting Miles Bridges - who I think will be a star.

I am 100% on board with this. I don't know that he'll be a star, but he is already very good.

Problem is... what do we have that they might want?

I don't know. They have Ish Smith now, so they're clearly a contender. I'd think one part they'd like is Kispert - because they lost their 3 point shooting gunner - Devonte Graham - in free agency. We have extra forwards, but they already have Gordon Hayward and PJ Washington - to go along with new free agent signee Kelly Oubre. And first round pick Kai Jones probably is more forward than center. And they picked JT Thor. They probably want a youngish center to start ahead of Plumlee, and no way we give them Gafford. So, who could we give them that fits that description? Maybe get a 3rd team involved.

[payitforward]

Yeah, I noticed that they signed Ish -- good for him. Paying him $3.4m too -- with an option for next year. Ish is going to retire from basketball a wealthy man! Not bad for a guy who wasn't drafted & had very little hype around him in his early years.

Sadly, I doubt they'll want to part with Miles Bridges. Unless... you know... they want to sell merch into the Japanese market, in which case they might be interested in Rui.

[Dat2U]

I think now would be the perfect time to target Towns.

I'd give up Deni, Hachimura, Bryant, Harrell, and am open to bargaining about draft assets, but its hard because they are likely to be on the losing end of pick swaps and we can't trade a pick until '25. I'd try to do the deal without it, but I would include it with top 4 protection if necessary.

Dimwit / Holiday
Beal / Neto
KCP / Kispert
Kuz / Bertans / Todd
Towns / Gafford

I've gone to this trade mentally because:

A. I don't have faith in Hachimura being worth keeping on the roster at an inflated value. Being realistically worth MLE, but due to being drafted + Japan hype + "potential" = inching closer to 20 mil a season. At some point you have to bet on what a guy will be and I'm not seeing it.

B. With the logjam the roster currently has, I don't think this is a shaping up to be a good situation at all for Deni's development. Read the writing on the wall--Tommy reached for two PG's this off-season and re-signed Neto, then reached for an athletic shooting PF.

I think the team would be pretty good. About as good as you could really hope for with Beal, and I think it'd result in him staying with us long term.

If we had a dominating defensive forward, Towns would be a great fit, but with our forwards... I don't see it. And Gafford made such a difference in our team - I don't see the point of giving him a smaller role this season. I'm interested to see if Jared Vanderbilt and Ed Davis complement Towns well this season.

If you could somehow get Towns, I think the best option is to play him with a defensive C. Towns can slide over to PF and still be highly effective due to his skill level.

[dckingsfan]

I think now would be the perfect time to target Towns.

I'd give up Deni, Hachimura, Bryant, Harrell, and am open to bargaining about draft assets, but its hard because they are likely to be on the losing end of pick swaps and we can't trade a pick until '25. I'd try to do the deal without it, but I would include it with top 4 protection if necessary.

Dimwit / Holiday
Beal / Neto
KCP / Kispert
Kuz / Bertans / Todd
Towns / Gafford

I've gone to this trade mentally because:

A. I don't have faith in Hachimura being worth keeping on the roster at an inflated value. Being realistically worth MLE, but due to being drafted + Japan hype + "potential" = inching closer to 20 mil a season. At some point you have to bet on what a guy will be and I'm not seeing it.

B. With the logjam the roster currently has, I don't think this is a shaping up to be a good situation at all for Deni's development. Read the writing on the wall--Tommy reached for two PG's this off-season and re-signed Neto, then reached for an athletic shooting PF.

I think the team would be pretty good. About as good as you could really hope for with Beal, and I think it'd result in him staying with us long term.

If we had a dominating defensive forward, Towns would be a great fit, but with our forwards... I don't see it. And Gafford made such a difference in our team - I don't see the point of giving him a smaller role this season. I'm interested to see if Jared Vanderbilt and Ed Davis complement Towns well this season.

If you could somehow get Towns, I think the best option is to play him with a defensive C. Towns can slide over to PF and still be highly effective due to his skill level.

More like:

Dinwiddie/Holiday
Beal/Neto
KCP/Bertans/Kispert
Towns/Kuzma/Todd
Gafford

And then see if you can sign Biyombo? Guessing the Kings will end up parting with one of Len, Thompson or Damian Jones. And then go out and resign Mathews?

[Ruzious]

Towns isn't going anywhere unless he requests a trade, and they can get more from other teams. I'm surprised Minny hasn't yet re-signed their RFA, Jarred Vanderbilt. Not sure what they're waiting for. Seems like he's a real up and comer who would complement Towns well up front - if he stays healthy.