Summer League Thread Part 4: Aug 14th Charlotte @7pm TSN2

[pingpongrac]

yall wanna talk about usage... this dude shooting like 25% FG in SUMMER LEAGUE.... masai/bobby messed up... 3 bad off seasons... lousy trade deadline, and we passed on suggs... damn.. feels awful

Cade is shooting 37%, Mobley is shooting 34%, Barnes is shooting 33%, Suggs is shooting 40%. Green is the only top 5 pick that has came out swinging (20 PPG on 51%).

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[Tor_Raps]

All 3 of those guys were drafted with the expectation to have them be given the keys to the offense from day 1. Barnes isn’t being handed the keys right now so obviously those guys will be an alpha right now

Pretty sure Barnes is gonna be developed with patience. Will help him pan out that way too as he gets to learn from other guys who had the same experience

If we had something as ridiculous as advanced stats for Summer League, I would love to see the USG% of those 3 mentioned vs Barnes, I can almost guarantee that theirs is significantly higher.

Clearly. Barnes (13 PPG) has 33 FGA and 20 FTA so far, Cade (16 PPG) has 35 FGA (0 FTA) in one less game, Green (20 PPG) has 37 FGA and 14 FTA in 15 less minutes and Suggs (15) has 41 FGA and 9 FTA in 20 less minutes. These other top picks (Cade, Green and Suggs) have the ball in their hands much more than Barnes and they're actually getting "plays" ran for them. The thing with Barnes too is I'd say almost half of his attempts have come off of offensive rebounds or broken plays. He's being utilized as somewhat of a garbage man the last two nights (which annoys the heck out of me) after he was given tons of freedom in the first game, but at least he is creating his own offence and got to the line 16 times.

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I always find it funny when people point to usage when comparing offensive stats. Do you think the reason why their usage is high is because they have the skillset to create their own shots?

Barnes clearly does not possess that ability at the moment and that is why his usage is low. No need to make excuses especially when all these guys are practically the same age.

Barnes has some work to do and I'm not saying he can't do it. It would be stupid to count a 20 year old out.

[Los_29]

Said nobody ever.....To be a factor in a game you need to get buckets.....other wise Rudy Gobert would be the best player in the NBA right now (Which hes not close)

You can literally flip this and say getting buckets alone doesn't make you a high impact player either otherwise kyrie would be able to actually be a 1st option on a winning team

Kyrie Irving hit one of the most clutch shots in NBA History to help beat one of the best teams in NBA history....He gets disrespected because things with the Celtics didn't work out....Irving is a difference maker...Saying he can do it alone is just a idiotic take...

No Players in NBA History won a title alone and thats including LeBron/Jordan/Giannis/Kobe....Literally all the Greats need other greats along side them to win a title ...

So yeah i will easily take Irving > Gobert and its not even a conversation

hmm, I know a guy that also hit a clutch shot in a finals game. His name is Pascal Siakam.

[KP730]

All 3 of those guys were drafted with the expectation to have them be given the keys to the offense from day 1. Barnes isn’t being handed the keys right now so obviously those guys will be an alpha right now

Pretty sure Barnes is gonna be developed with patience. Will help him pan out that way too as he gets to learn from other guys who had the same experience

If we had something as ridiculous as advanced stats for Summer League, I would love to see the USG% of those 3 mentioned vs Barnes, I can almost guarantee that theirs is significantly higher.

Clearly. Barnes (13 PPG) has 33 FGA and 20 FTA so far, Cade (16 PPG) has 35 FGA (0 FTA) in one less game, Green (20 PPG) has 37 FGA and 14 FTA in 15 less minutes and Suggs (15) has 41 FGA and 9 FTA in 20 less minutes. These other top picks (Cade, Green and Suggs) have the ball in their hands much more than Barnes and they're actually getting "plays" ran for them. The thing with Barnes too is I'd say almost half of his attempts have come off of offensive rebounds or broken plays. He's being utilized as somewhat of a garbage man the last two nights (which annoys the heck out of me) after he was given tons of freedom in the first game, but at least he is creating his own offence and got to the line 16 times.

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my guess is Barnes is being limited in both usage and minutes in both these games because they are back to back

Flynn/precious playing 30+ minutes back to back, but top rookies? whether it be barnes, Suggs, and we saw it with green today…they are getting limited minutes in these summer league back to backs. not yet used to nba grind, and why risk injury?

I expect Barnes to be featured a LOT more in next game, more like his 1st game

[Kevin Willis]

1. Suggs has a different game than Barnes. Everyone knows that, stop comparing their games anyway.
2. The only focus Raptors have is on defence. Offence is going to be disorganized which is bad for Barnes. He's not an iso guy. He needs a system and plays
3. Why can't we be happy for all the lotto players, including Suggs. He's a good player - Barnes is a good player. Let's roll with it.

[Clutch0z24]

You can literally flip this and say getting buckets alone doesn't make you a high impact player either otherwise kyrie would be able to actually be a 1st option on a winning team

Kyrie Irving hit one of the most clutch shots in NBA History to help beat one of the best teams in NBA history....He gets disrespected because things with the Celtics didn't work out....Irving is a difference maker...Saying he can do it alone is just a idiotic take...

No Players in NBA History won a title alone and thats including LeBron/Jordan/Giannis/Kobe....Literally all the Greats need other greats along side them to win a title ...

So yeah i will easily take Irving > Gobert and its not even a conversation

hmm, I know a guy that also hit a clutch shot in a finals game. His name is Pascal Siakam.

Yeah and? i would take Siakam over Gobert as well ....He can do way more things on the court as a whole....A defensive minded player with limited offense in the playoffs gets exposed ...So yeah having a scorer is way more valuable to winning than just a defender who can't score

[Syd-TK3]

Cooper is a stud....Masai made a mistake

Swear we try too hard to be different sometimes just do the obvious thing. With 2 picks you can make a gamble like that on a high rated prospect

[Los_29]

Said nobody ever

According to his logic Jordan Clarkson is more valuable than Rudy Gobert.

In the playoffs he is....Clarkson was one of the better performers in the playoffs for them while Gobert got exposed....

Scoring 20PPG will always be more valuable than a player who can block shots (Nerlens Noel) its not even a discussion idk wtf you guys are thinking that having a few blocks is more important than being a high level scorer

Do you even basketball bro? You cannot be serious. That is honestly one of the worst takes I have ever seen.

Wow, Clarkson was more important than Rudy Gobert in the playoffs.

[yyzsportsjunky]

yall wanna talk about usage... this dude shooting like 25% FG in SUMMER LEAGUE.... masai/bobby messed up... 3 bad off seasons... lousy trade deadline, and we passed on suggs... damn.. feels awful

3 bad offseasons? What did you want him to do the championship offseason? Trade for lebron? No one was talking about last offseason being bad coming off 54 wins either. Everyone talked about the big rotation but the majority agreed that saving cap for a run at giannis was more important. I seriously question the memory of some people on this board

After the championship season, would've been great to add anything more than Rondae/Stanley...
Last year, they lost serge, got bigs off scrap heap...
This year, they literally did not add a single FA who played in the NBA last year...

Like, no one is saying 'trade for lebron', but tell me, who's the most talented player they got last three seasons... further, if you're not going to sign someone this offseason, how do you justify the trade deadline that just past, re powell/gtj...

[Bruin]

Said nobody ever

According to his logic Jordan Clarkson is more valuable than Rudy Gobert.

In the playoffs he is....Clarkson was one of the better performers in the playoffs for them while Gobert got exposed....

Scoring 20PPG will always be more valuable than a player who can block shots (Nerlens Noel) its not even a discussion idk wtf you guys are thinking that having a few blocks is more important than being a high level scorer

Bro what

[duppyy]

5 blocks is more impressive than scoring 20pts

Said nobody ever.....To be a factor in a game you need to get buckets.....other wise Rudy Gobert would be the best player in the NBA right now (Which hes not close)

Gobert is a beast in the regular season, the defensive anchor for that over achieving jazz team, he just has DeMar syndrome in the playoffs and shrivels up.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/rudy-gobert-is-having-one-of-the-best-defensive-seasons-in-modern-nba-history/

[Clutch0z24]

Cooper is a stud....Masai made a mistake

Swear we try too hard to be different sometimes just do the obvious thing. With 2 picks you can make a gamble like that on a high rated prospect

Yeah i have not been impressed with Masai Drafting lately he seems to be trying to draft one type of player and ignoring skills/talent and looking more at the measurements ....Which might come back to bite us

[MavCarter]

yall wanna talk about usage... this dude shooting like 25% FG in SUMMER LEAGUE.... masai/bobby messed up... 3 bad off seasons... lousy trade deadline, and we passed on suggs... damn.. feels awful

3 bad offseasons? What did you want him to do the championship offseason? Trade for lebron? No one was talking about last offseason being bad coming off 54 wins either. Everyone talked about the big rotation but the majority agreed that saving cap for a run at giannis was more important. I seriously question the memory of some people on this board

After the championship season, would've been great to add anything more than Rondae/Stanley...
Last year, they lost serge, got bigs off scrap heap...
This year, they literally did not add a single FA who played in the NBA last year...

Like, no one is saying 'trade for lebron', but tell me, who's the most talented player they got last three seasons... further, if you're not going to sign someone this offseason, how do you justify the trade deadline that just past, re powell/gtj...

Who did you want that championship offseason? I need names of players we could have signed (with no capspace) or traded for (every player was loved that offseason who were we giving up?) We added rondae and stanley and still won 54 games and almost made the ECF.

[Clutch0z24]

According to his logic Jordan Clarkson is more valuable than Rudy Gobert.

In the playoffs he is....Clarkson was one of the better performers in the playoffs for them while Gobert got exposed....

Scoring 20PPG will always be more valuable than a player who can block shots (Nerlens Noel) its not even a discussion idk wtf you guys are thinking that having a few blocks is more important than being a high level scorer

Bro what

Did you not watch the playoffs?.....Clarkson was hooping while Gobert was getting exposed....Being a high level scorer will always surpass a high level defender when it matters most....When you are saying defense matters ofc it does but when you a pylon on the offensive end you are going to get exposed in the playoffs ....Idk whats so hard for people to not understand this

[yyzsportsjunky]

yall wanna talk about usage... this dude shooting like 25% FG in SUMMER LEAGUE.... masai/bobby messed up... 3 bad off seasons... lousy trade deadline, and we passed on suggs... damn.. feels awful

Cade is shooting 37%, Mobley is shooting 34%, Barnes is shooting 33%, Suggs is shooting 40%. Green is the only top 5 pick that has came out swinging (20 PPG on 51%).

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This is a fair point.

[bakafool]

Need to run some plays and let Scottie handle the ball the next game. Don't want him to get too used to playing like a garbageman.

[Reeko]

Need to run some plays and let Scottie handle the ball the next game. Don't want him to get too used to playing like a garbageman.

His dislike for how he's being used right now is almost tangible when you watch him on the court.

[duppyy]

On another note, Jalen Green looks so frail, not surprised he got injured.

[pingpongrac]

Posters get way too worked up over summer league. I watch the 10 minute highlight videos, but would never watch an entire game. If some of these young guys show promise that would be great, but I still take if with a grain of salt because it is summer league at the end of the day.

I think I get what you're saying in essence, but just watching the highlights is worse than actually watching the whole game. You're not necessarily looking for big scoring numbers in SL because anyone can do that. You want to be able to see the little things that happen throughout the game (things that Barnes has done well thus far, like defensive intensity and making the right read on offence) rather than just seeing 20+ points on the stat sheet and assuming that player had a big game.

Take tonight for example. Sengun filled the stat sheet a bit (9 PTS/10 REB/3 AST/2 STL/1 BLK), but he didn't have a good game while Barnes' full-court defence and a couple individual plays was the driving force to Toronto's big run in the 3rd that pushed the lead from 9 to 22 in a matter of 2 minutes.

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[Clutch0z24]

According to his logic Jordan Clarkson is more valuable than Rudy Gobert.

In the playoffs he is....Clarkson was one of the better performers in the playoffs for them while Gobert got exposed....

Scoring 20PPG will always be more valuable than a player who can block shots (Nerlens Noel) its not even a discussion idk wtf you guys are thinking that having a few blocks is more important than being a high level scorer

Do you even basketball bro? You cannot be serious. That is honestly one of the worst takes I have ever seen.

Wow, Clarkson was more important than Rudy Gobert in the playoffs.

Did you guys watch the Clippers series? Gobert could not even stay on the Court.....He was getting exposed the whole series and was leaving players wide open for 3s all game long....He was one of the reasons they got eliminated...Cause he was a pylon on offense while Mitchell was forced to try and put the team on his back ....What has Gobert ever done in the playoffs to change a game/Series ....Nothing ...Now Compare Gobert to an elite level scorer....Devin Booker...Many Elite Level Scorers have done better than Any elite defender has in the playoffs so saying an elite defender blocking 5 shots is better then an elite scorer averaging over 20ppg is a Foolish dumb take