Who has the brighter future? Knicks or Bulls?

[bronxknicksfan1]

Randle has had one good season under his belt. Lavine and Vuc have several. I would rather have those two than Randle on my team. I'm not saying Randle is a bad player because he's not. He's an AS player. So are Lavine and Vuc. The Bulls have two AS players I rate both higher than Randle. I rate the Bulls a little higher than Knicks accordingly.

This isn't Randle's first good season. Randle is also a better defender than either Lavine or Vuc while putting up similar offensive numbers. Not to say he's better than Lavine and Vuc, but neither of them are better than him. They're in the same realm.

I agree that defense matters and Randle is better than Vuc.

He's nowhere near Zach in terms of scoring ability though. His best scoring year was this past year and he put up 24ppg on .567 ts vs Zach putting up 27 ppg on .634 ts, huge gulf in efficiency despite higher volume from Zach.

Admittedly, Zach didn't make the playoffs but Randle put together an all time atrocious offensive performance - 18ppg on .420TS.

As of now, most teams would much rather have Lavine over Randle.

As of now, Randle has been the one to lead a team to the playoffs, even with his bad performance. He’s a much better defender as well. So much so that it evened them out in BPM and Randle also had a higher VORP. Then when it comes to contracts, he’ll be a better value than whatever Lavine ends up getting next season. Again, they’re in the same realm. Lavine isn’t better.

[Lunartic]

This isn't Randle's first good season. Randle is also a better defender than either Lavine or Vuc while putting up similar offensive numbers. Not to say he's better than Lavine and Vuc, but neither of them are better than him. They're in the same realm.

I agree that defense matters and Randle is better than Vuc.

He's nowhere near Zach in terms of scoring ability though. His best scoring year was this past year and he put up 24ppg on .567 ts vs Zach putting up 27 ppg on .634 ts, huge gulf in efficiency despite higher volume from Zach.

Admittedly, Zach didn't make the playoffs but Randle put together an all time atrocious offensive performance - 18ppg on .420TS.

As of now, most teams would much rather have Lavine over Randle.

As of now, Randle has been the one to lead a team to the playoffs, even with his bad performance. He’s a much better defender as well. So much so that it evened them out in BPM and Randle also had a higher VORP. Then when it comes to contracts, he’ll be a better value than whatever Lavine ends up getting next season. Again, they’re in the same realm. Lavine isn’t better.

I don't disagree that Randle is better defensively.

You said they put up similar offensive numbers.

4 more points per game on significantly higher efficiency isn't similar. It's what seperates good offensive players and elite offensive players.

Like I said, do you think any team would pick Randle over Lavine?

[uraverage]

Not sure how this is even a debate... until Lavine resigns, its the Knicks.

[Michael Jackson]

Pretty even. Both have a lot to prove. Overall talent the Bulls got in the offseason but that is yet to see if it even works together. Knicks have to prove they weren’t just an over achieving team. That being said, knicks have way more future flexibility. That counts for a better future right?

On the LaVine or Randle arguement…I think almost every team including the Knicks would take LaVine. Not that he doesn’t have flaws but elite scoring is the juice this league runs on.

[Tor_Raps]

Neither, both teams future is NOW. Both have topped out at winning a round at best and more likely being first round fodder.

[PhilBlackson]

I don't like either all that much tbh.

[ArksNetsSince99]

Knicks have one guy Bulls doesn’t, Mr Dolan

Bulls by a mile

[XblueworldX]

Probably Knicks but nothing special

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[PistolPeteJR]

I guess the Knicks just because if both of these teams become competitive 6-8 seeds and develop a strong culture following the model of what the Nets did in 2019, I think the Knicks are slightly more likely to attract a superstar free agent to sign than the Bulls are.

This was where my thinking initially went too.

[SharpyShuffle]

Knicks have already established a pretty good culture, they seemed like more than the sum of their parts last season before it all came down to Earth vs the Hawks. As I've said many times they should be trying to just copy the Nets and look competent so they can land FAs in the future, so I wince every time I see sometime suggest they trade for Dame or whoever. But if they can avoid that trap and just be patient for once, they have a bright future. Being in NYC and being willing to pay the tax for the right team are huge advantages that they never used properly before - now, for the first time this century, they look like they might be doing things properly.

Bulls have the best individual player on either team in Zach, but that's basically it.And good as he is, LaVine is not good enough to build a contender around. Terrible end to the season last year after the big swing of the Vuc trade, cheap owner, grabbed a few relatively big-name players but still very uncertain how it will all fit together. Bulls feel like they cap out at a second round exit for the foreseeable future, while the Knicks at least have a chance to build a real contender if they can continue the (very) recent rend of not being completely incompetent and just copy the smaller, but smarter, franchise across the city.

[bronxknicksfan1]

I agree that defense matters and Randle is better than Vuc.

He's nowhere near Zach in terms of scoring ability though. His best scoring year was this past year and he put up 24ppg on .567 ts vs Zach putting up 27 ppg on .634 ts, huge gulf in efficiency despite higher volume from Zach.

Admittedly, Zach didn't make the playoffs but Randle put together an all time atrocious offensive performance - 18ppg on .420TS.

As of now, most teams would much rather have Lavine over Randle.

As of now, Randle has been the one to lead a team to the playoffs, even with his bad performance. He’s a much better defender as well. So much so that it evened them out in BPM and Randle also had a higher VORP. Then when it comes to contracts, he’ll be a better value than whatever Lavine ends up getting next season. Again, they’re in the same realm. Lavine isn’t better.

I don't disagree that Randle is better defensively.

You said they put up similar offensive numbers.

4 more points per game on significantly higher efficiency isn't similar. It's what seperates good offensive players and elite offensive players.

Like I said, do you think any team would pick Randle over Lavine?

Based on needs, I could see teams going for Randle over Lavine. Randle is a better passer, defender, rebounder and just as good of a 3 point shooter. As mentioned, he had a higher VORP, WS and same BPM this past season. Overall, Randle brings more to the table than Lavine.

[Sakkreth]

Bulls has a great front office now, so the Bulls.

[HurricaneKid]

Neither team has a remote shot at winning a Playoff series or being a top 10 team as constituted.

I don't think anyone who could change that wants to come play for Dolan (still) and Chicago is now financially tied to this team full of one dimensional scorers.

I mean they are play-in teams ready to be gobbled whole by the Nets/Bucks should they manage to win their biggest games in years.

Harsh but true.

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[HurricaneKid]

As of now, Randle has been the one to lead a team to the playoffs, even with his bad performance. He’s a much better defender as well. So much so that it evened them out in BPM and Randle also had a higher VORP. Then when it comes to contracts, he’ll be a better value than whatever Lavine ends up getting next season. Again, they’re in the same realm. Lavine isn’t better.

I don't disagree that Randle is better defensively.

You said they put up similar offensive numbers.

4 more points per game on significantly higher efficiency isn't similar. It's what seperates good offensive players and elite offensive players.

Like I said, do you think any team would pick Randle over Lavine?

Based on needs, I could see teams going for Randle over Lavine. Randle is a better passer, defender, rebounder and just as good of a 3 point shooter. As mentioned, he had a higher VORP, WS and same BPM this past season. Overall, Randle brings more to the table than Lavine.

He is nowhere near the 3 point shooter that Lavine is. That's ABSURD. Randle has had 1 season where he shot at league avg, this year, and shot it quite well. But Lavine shot >50% more per min and made them at a better clip. And the other stats you point to are largely cumulative stats largely depending on one guy missing 14 games and the other guy leading the league in minutes played.

Both guys are really good players who had great years. But they also have glaring holes and likely aren't capable of carrying their teams to any kind of postseason success.

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[pipfan]

I figure it like this

Randle= Lavine (I like Lavine more moving forward, but hey are equal)
After that, the next best 2 players are clearly Vuc and DDR (both underrated)

Then, I would take Ball over Barrett, Fournier or Rose (not sure who NY's next best player is). I am a Bulls' fan, so I am biased, but I really like our core of Ball/Lavine/DDR/Williams/Vuc with a bench of Caruso/White/Brown/what we get from Lauri/Bradley-I think we will surprise people this year and win close to 50-with some room for growth.
Then, I think DDR's contract will help-it will be tradable for a big star, if one comes on the market. I could even see-if the Simmons thing drags out-we do DDR/CobyW for Simmons in Dec

NY does have the better coach, and more draft picks. I think they made a BIG mistake at this year's draft. I think they should have grabbed Jalen Johnson and Keon Johnson-two guys with HIGH upsides. Those types of guys have value in a trade for a star.

[DroseReturnChi]

As of now, Randle has been the one to lead a team to the playoffs, even with his bad performance. He’s a much better defender as well. So much so that it evened them out in BPM and Randle also had a higher VORP. Then when it comes to contracts, he’ll be a better value than whatever Lavine ends up getting next season. Again, they’re in the same realm. Lavine isn’t better.

I don't disagree that Randle is better defensively.

You said they put up similar offensive numbers.

4 more points per game on significantly higher efficiency isn't similar. It's what seperates good offensive players and elite offensive players.

Like I said, do you think any team would pick Randle over Lavine?

Based on needs, I could see teams going for Randle over Lavine. Randle is a better passer, defender, rebounder and just as good of a 3 point shooter. As mentioned, he had a higher VORP, WS and same BPM this past season. Overall, Randle brings more to the table than Lavine.

yep im 99 out of 100 going for randle unless im starting a new team and need a handsome dunker to hype the franchise and sell tickets on a 10 win team which is what the wolves are doing. the ability to make someone better is an ability that is the most valuable skillset and randle's outside shooting is on par nothing to talk smack. randle vs lavine is basically riding a reliable honda over a broken down old ferrari i will def take the former as my daily commute all day. give me the guy with better intangibles and higher iq who knows what he is doing.

Not to mention randle's contract is much cheaper lower than max and knicks havent even spent all their treasure chest vs a team that mortgaged their entire future on a 3yr window.

[Zerostatic]

In a thread about “futures” there is a distinct lack of discussion on both teams draft pick situations. The Bulls owe multiple future 1st round picks and the Knicks not only have all of their picks but they also have a future first from Dallas and Charlotte.

Same goes for salary cap situation where the Knicks have a more favorable situation.

[seren]

The Knicks and it is not even close. Fully expect Lavine to bail out when he becomes FA

[Michael Jackson]

I don't like either all that much tbh.

Neither is a contender but they are both solid teams who have been in the cellar for a long while while the comparison and question is apt imho.

[JJ_PR]

This one is close, but I'm going with the Bulls. They have more star power. LaVine, Ball & DeRozan is a formidable big three & they have good pieces around those guys like Vucevic & Patrick Williams.