Official Celtics 2021-22 Season Thread

[Feed Your Head]

Tatum was in the 91st percentile for assist rate amongst forwards. Dude is WAY ahead of the playmaking curve, especially for a forward.

[Curmudgeon]

Tatum was in the 91st percentile for assist rate amongst forwards. Dude is WAY ahead of the playmaking curve, especially for a forward.

How much of that is high usage?

[Feed Your Head]

Tatum was in the 91st percentile for assist rate amongst forwards. Dude is WAY ahead of the playmaking curve, especially for a forward.

How much of that is high usage?

His usage going up is definitely part of it, but there’s a ton of forwards who had really high usage. He’s ahead of almost any great wing/forward when they were in their age 22 season, with assist rate.

Does he still need to improve as a playmaker? 100% yes, but he’s pretty ahead of the curve.

[moonie_mcgee]

With the Jays?!?

Am I the only one who thinks both Tatum and Brown are very willing and capable passers, yet have little shooting/scoring talent around them to do so? I mean.. I'm pretty sure you could add like 100 assists each if guys like Semi Ojeleye, Kemba and Grant Williams made open buckets or if Tristan and Teague didn't miss 100 lay ups a game.

Tatum played with a lot of trash in that Brooklyn series but still had 5-7 assists in most games..

I think they're plenty wiling to pass. I don't view either as any sort of "ball hog". But just being brutally honest, I don't think either of them really play-make for others at a high level. I don't mean this as some huge slight either. In general I think fans always think of passing/playmaking as more of a will vs a skill. It's both though. I don't think either of them are tight enough with their handle right now to excel at it. Without a tight handle you've got to divert your focus a bit just to concentrate on not turning the ball over or getting it swiped. The basket is a stationary target so it's easier to be focusing on your handle/footwork and still be able to get there compared to passing/playmaking where you're trying to read moving defenders and teammates.

That's a great point about focus and there's alot if truth to it. It's certainly more challenging to be able to drive and dish than to just drive. I think both JB and JT naturally are better at the latter and moreso JB than JT. In one way I'd rather see them perfect the driving part of the game at this point in their career. They have time to improve on the dishing. JB in particular needs to land on his feet more. JT figured that out already. Landing on your feet is healthier on the body and indicates that one is playing through contact rather than avoiding it - leading to more FTs. Both should get there in their primes.

[24istheLAW]

Tatum was in the 91st percentile for assist rate amongst forwards. Dude is WAY ahead of the playmaking curve, especially for a forward.

How much of that is high usage?

His usage going up is definitely part of it, but there’s a ton of forwards who had really high usage. He’s ahead of almost any great wing/forward when they were in their age 22 season, with assist rate.

Does he still need to improve as a playmaker? 100% yes, but he’s pretty ahead of the curve.

The problem is you're restricting it to forwards.

There's no reason to do so - the quality of a team's first option is measured in their production, not position. Many of his peers play different positions. Donovan Mitchell, James Harden, Luka Doncic, Joel Embiid...

Of the league's 50 highest usage players in 2020-2021, Tatum was 36th/50 (28th percentile) in AST%. Brown was 41st/50 (18th percentile) in AST%.

[hugepatsfan]

How much of that is high usage?

His usage going up is definitely part of it, but there’s a ton of forwards who had really high usage. He’s ahead of almost any great wing/forward when they were in their age 22 season, with assist rate.

Does he still need to improve as a playmaker? 100% yes, but he’s pretty ahead of the curve.

The problem is you're restricting it to forwards.

There's no reason to do so - the quality of a team's first option is measured in their production, not position. Many of his peers play different positions. Donovan Mitchell, James Harden, Luka Doncic, Joel Embiid...

Of the league's 50 highest usage players in 2020-2021, Tatum was 36th/50 (28th percentile) in AST%. Brown was 41st/50 (18th percentile) in AST%.

I think there is and isn't a reason to limit it to forwards. I think it just kind of illustrates that it's a very unique and special thing for a forward to be able to take on that much playmaking responsibility. Everyone wants the Lebron type point forward but that's so rare. Both of these things can be true:

1) Tatum's playmaking is really progressing for his positon and he has a chance to be one of the better in the league at the forward spot

2) As an overall 1st option he might not be cut out to be such a high usage, run everything through him type of guy

Judging his playmaking as a forward and a #1 option regardless of position are different scales.

[moonie_mcgee]

Catching up with my SL recordings.
I bet the starters will be
Schroeder Smart Brown Tatum Timelord
That's a damn good 5. Roll it!
Next 5 will be
Pritchard Richardson Nesmith Horford TBD
That's balanced on O and D and and inside outside.
The committee will be who plays with Horford who can stretch. Right now it's Bruno and Kanter for the paint with Horford in.
Deeper depth based on need will be the tweeners GWill Parker Hauser Langford.

[MagicBagley18]

Catching up with my SL recordings.
I bet the starters will be
Schroeder Smart Brown Tatum Timelord
That's a damn good 5. Roll it!
Next 5 will be
Pritchard Richardson Nesmith Horford TBD
That's balanced on O and D and and inside outside.
The committee will be who plays with Horford who can stretch. Right now it's Bruno and Kanter for the paint with Horford in.
Deeper depth based on need will be the tweeners GWill Parker Hauser Langford.

Doubt u see a starting line up of smart Schroeder and timelord- that’s 3 guys that can’t shoot and the spacing would be horrific. Not to mention Schroeder is a guy who drives, he drove 13x a game last year which would lead the team and more then Tatum. If you are starting them together which i originally was fine with - it makes more sense to have horford with them but those 3 together (rob dennis smart ) is horrific spacing

[moonie_mcgee]

Catching up with my SL recordings.
I bet the starters will be
Schroeder Smart Brown Tatum Timelord
That's a damn good 5. Roll it!
Next 5 will be
Pritchard Richardson Nesmith Horford TBD
That's balanced on O and D and and inside outside.
The committee will be who plays with Horford who can stretch. Right now it's Bruno and Kanter for the paint with Horford in.
Deeper depth based on need will be the tweeners GWill Parker Hauser Langford.

Doubt u see a starting line up of smart Schroeder and timelord- that’s 3 guys that can’t shoot and the spacing would be horrific. Not to mention Schroeder is a guy who drives, he drove 13x a game last year which would lead the team and more then Tatum. If you are starting them together which i originally was fine with - it makes more sense to have horford with them but those 3 together (rob dennis smart ) is horrific spacing

Schroder JB and JT can all shoot and drive. It may happen as you say and TL gets limited minutes anyway. So if TLs on the 2nd unit isn't that horrible spacing too or do you think the 2nd unit has better shooting.

[MagicBagley18]

Catching up with my SL recordings.
I bet the starters will be
Schroeder Smart Brown Tatum Timelord
That's a damn good 5. Roll it!
Next 5 will be
Pritchard Richardson Nesmith Horford TBD
That's balanced on O and D and and inside outside.
The committee will be who plays with Horford who can stretch. Right now it's Bruno and Kanter for the paint with Horford in.
Deeper depth based on need will be the tweeners GWill Parker Hauser Langford.

Doubt u see a starting line up of smart Schroeder and timelord- that’s 3 guys that can’t shoot and the spacing would be horrific. Not to mention Schroeder is a guy who drives, he drove 13x a game last year which would lead the team and more then Tatum. If you are starting them together which i originally was fine with - it makes more sense to have horford with them but those 3 together (rob dennis smart ) is horrific spacing

Schroder JB and JT can all shoot and drive. It may happen as you say and TL gets limited minutes anyway. So if TLs on the 2nd unit isn't that horrible spacing too or do you think the 2nd unit has better shooting.

Schroeder is a career 33% from 3 guy so I wouldn’t necessarily call him a shooter at all. Has only has 2 years he’s shot over 35%. He’s good at using his speed to drive And get in the lane and get layups at the rim. I think the answer is to put Schroeder on the 2nd unit. Start smart/nesmith/Jaylen/Tatum that should be the starting 4 imo.

[sam_I_am]

Catching up with my SL recordings.
I bet the starters will be
Schroeder Smart Brown Tatum Timelord
That's a damn good 5. Roll it!
Next 5 will be
Pritchard Richardson Nesmith Horford TBD
That's balanced on O and D and and inside outside.
The committee will be who plays with Horford who can stretch. Right now it's Bruno and Kanter for the paint with Horford in.
Deeper depth based on need will be the tweeners GWill Parker Hauser Langford.

I like that starting 5 although I have JRich instead of Schroeder. If you ar correct, JRich is so versatile he can literally sub for everybody but RW which gives Udoka a ton of flexibility. I personally love this but I worry about scoring/shooting with both Smart and Dennis starting.

[Ben-N1ce]

Schroder and Smart starting is dumb. Hope it's Neismith. Get the kid good looks.

[GoGreen]

Smart/Nesmith/JB/JT/Rob

Schrodes/Pritch/Richardson/Millsap/Horf

That's my top 10 if we sign Millsap

[Bohemian]

I wanna know what Kris Dunn is doing these days. It has to be tough not to know if you are playing for the C´s or not

[Feed Your Head]

How much of that is high usage?

His usage going up is definitely part of it, but there’s a ton of forwards who had really high usage. He’s ahead of almost any great wing/forward when they were in their age 22 season, with assist rate.

Does he still need to improve as a playmaker? 100% yes, but he’s pretty ahead of the curve.

The problem is you're restricting it to forwards.

There's no reason to do so - the quality of a team's first option is measured in their production, not position. Many of his peers play different positions. Donovan Mitchell, James Harden, Luka Doncic, Joel Embiid...

Of the league's 50 highest usage players in 2020-2021, Tatum was 36th/50 (28th percentile) in AST%. Brown was 41st/50 (18th percentile) in AST%.

Well it’s because he’s a forward, and 3/4s almost almost have less ballhandling and playmaking opportunities than guards. So it’s him being asked to do something that many players at his position just don’t do. But just for comparisons sake, here’s the assist rate/usage for their 4th seasons.

Tatum 20.3%/30.8%
Pierce 15.7%/29.3%
Paul George 17.9%/28.3%
Durant 13.2%/30.6%
Kawhi 18.9% /31.1% (using his 6th season, his first very high usage year.)
Butler 14.4%/21.5% (he’s a really low usage guy for such a good offensive player)
Kobe 23%/31.4% (his 5th season, first extremely high usage season)

He’s pretty ahead of the curve for a wing, he’s way ahead of the curve for guys who play all their minutes at the 4/3.

[GoCeltics123]

Read on Twitter

[Bill Lumbergh]

I wanna know what Kris Dunn is doing these days. It has to be tough not to know if you are playing for the C´s or not

I may be on an island here, but I am moderately intrigued by Dunn. He reminds me of Tony Allen on D. Unfortunately, he also reminds me of him on offense.

Probably moot, as they likely move off his contract if they want to avoid the luxury tax. I, at least, want to see what he’s got, but it’ll probably be for somebody else.

[snowman]

As far as a starting unit goes, I don't think you will see Smart and Schroder starting together. They will play together, due to rotations, but not start. I see:

1st team:
Smart (Udoka said "Smart asked for the ball, so we're going to see how it goes)
Richardson (Another ball handler, do it all kind of guy. Also 6'5 helps on the switching)
Brown (No brainer)
Tatum (Even more of a no brainer)
R. Williams (Team made a way for Rob to start last year, don't see why that would change, also keeps Horford fresher for end game)

2nd team:
Pritchard (Shooter or ball handler, what ever team needs)
Schroder (Slasher, capable shooter, distributer, pest on defense)
Nesmith (Has turned from just a shooter to a scorer from anywhere)
Fernando ( I have him better that G. Will except 3 pt shooting. With all the shooting on 2nd team, need an enforcer / defender)
Horford (2nd team vocal leader, spread the floor of any big's in the paint for Schroder and Pritchard to drive)

3rd team:
Edwards (As of now, but probably / hopefully gone by training camp)
Dunn (As of now, but probably gone before the season starts because being a cap causality)
Langford (Scorer / slasher that needs to step it up.
Parker (Probably a cap causality)
G. Will (Lots of effort from a physically limited plater. 3 pt shooting has improved)
Kanter ( Low lost scorer / rebounder/ weak defender)

2-Way players:
Hauser (Great shooter, needs work defensively)
(open spot)

[Curmudgeon]

LOL, Pritchard left Summer league and then promptly dropped 92 in Jamal Crawford's pro am league. Puts IT's 81 points into perspective. And LOL, Pritchard's "previous commitment" involved more basketball. Why am I not surprised?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/payton-pritchard-puts-up-92-points-in-portland-pro-am-game/ar-AANllOO?ocid=msedgntp

[LarryBirdsFingr]

As far as a starting unit goes, I don't think you will see Smart and Schroder starting together. They will play together, due to rotations, but not start. I see:

1st team:
Smart (Udoka said "Smart asked for the ball, so we're going to see how it goes)
Richardson (Another ball handler, do it all kind of guy. Also 6'5 helps on the switching)
Brown (No brainer)
Tatum (Even more of a no brainer)
R. Williams (Team made a way for Rob to start last year, don't see why that would change, also keeps Horford fresher for end game)

2nd team:
Pritchard (Shooter or ball handler, what ever team needs)
Schroder (Slasher, capable shooter, distributer, pest on defense)
Nesmith (Has turned from just a shooter to a scorer from anywhere)
Fernando ( I have him better that G. Will except 3 pt shooting. With all the shooting on 2nd team, need an enforcer / defender)
Horford (2nd team vocal leader, spread the floor of any big's in the paint for Schroder and Pritchard to drive)

3rd team:
Edwards (As of now, but probably / hopefully gone by training camp)
Dunn (As of now, but probably gone before the season starts because being a cap causality)
Langford (Scorer / slasher that needs to step it up.
Parker (Probably a cap causality)
G. Will (Lots of effort from a physically limited plater. 3 pt shooting has improved)
Kanter ( Low lost scorer / rebounder/ weak defender)

2-Way players:
Hauser (Great shooter, needs work defensively)
(open spot)

This is correct