2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[bwgood77]

Payne is a way better assist guy at this point than Payton. 7.2 per 36 vs 4.9 per 36 while he only has 2 turnovers per 36 to Payton's 2.5. Payton has been better earlier in his career with that but his career per 36 is 7.8.

Signing him isn't that big of a deal since we really down the stretch only ran a 3 guard rotation and now we have a nice 4 guard rotation, so I imagine he only sees a few minutes on occasion in garbage time or if we have an injury.

I just felt maybe a younger guy with more upside that hasn't kind of trended down in his career would be a preferable choice for me.

[RunDogGun]

I'm afraid JJ is waiting for Kevin Love and I don't know if that is good for the team and/or Jalen.

Maybe good for the team and bad for Jalen or bad for both, team and player, but I can't imagine a good scenario for everyone.

Love is still an interesting thought, especially if we aren't losing assets to get him. On paper, it could work. Is he quick enough to not be like Saric in the starting line up? If his defense is horrible, then it will hurt our starting group. But he can rebound, and right now Crowder is still averaging less than 5 boards a game. Injury history is against Love.

But for the vet min, and we lose no assets? I wouldn't mind it, even if that means Smith has to work harder to even see the floor, than so be it.

[RunDogGun]

Payne is a way better assist guy at this point than Payton. 7.2 per 36 vs 4.9 per 36 while he only has 2 turnovers per 36 to Payton's 2.5. Payton has been better earlier in his career with that but his career per 36 is 7.8.

Signing him isn't that big of a deal since we really down the stretch only ran a 3 guard rotation and now we have a nice 4 guard rotation, so I imagine he only sees a few minutes on occasion in garbage time or if we have an injury.

I just felt maybe a younger guy with more upside that hasn't kind of trended down in his career would be a preferable choice for me.

But you are using last year's stats, where his role changed dramatically, and they ran the offense through Randle. The year before that, on NY, Payton averaged 7.2 assists per game, and averages 6.2 for his career. I didn't see any FA we could get with the min that has that for a career assisting. Honestly, I think we went for a guy who can easily come in and start if we needed him to, and he will find guys open.

Younger guy with upside is what Tyshon is supposed to be, right? I am happy we got such a talent for the vet min, at the end of the bench. If there was someone younger, who is prjected to average 6.2 assists per game, I would be open for them as well.

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

Jae Crowder is loving the valley and the beautiful women it’s got lol.

[bwgood77]

Payne is a way better assist guy at this point than Payton. 7.2 per 36 vs 4.9 per 36 while he only has 2 turnovers per 36 to Payton's 2.5. Payton has been better earlier in his career with that but his career per 36 is 7.8.

Signing him isn't that big of a deal since we really down the stretch only ran a 3 guard rotation and now we have a nice 4 guard rotation, so I imagine he only sees a few minutes on occasion in garbage time or if we have an injury.

I just felt maybe a younger guy with more upside that hasn't kind of trended down in his career would be a preferable choice for me.

But you are using last year's stats, where his role changed dramatically, and they ran the offense through Randle. The year before that, on NY, Payton averaged 7.2 assists per game, and averages 6.2 for his career. I didn't see any FA we could get with the min that has that for a career assisting. Honestly, I think we went for a guy who can easily come in and start if we needed him to, and he will find guys open.

Younger guy with upside is what Tyshon is supposed to be, right? I am happy we got such a talent for the vet min, at the end of the bench. If there was someone younger, who is prjected to average 6.2 assists per game, I would be open for them as well.

Sure, but NY was 21-45 the year before with Payton doing more handling. Heck, when he played for us for 19 games, we started him and started out 0-6, before finally winning 1, and he followed that up with a 12 game losing streak, so we went ahead and cut him after his 1-18 record starting.

Our team wasn't good that year, at 21-61, but aside from the horrendous start with Bledsoe at 0-3, and the Payton games, we were 20-40, winning at least 1 out of every 3 games.

And it was Ulis starting the majority of those other games with a little Mike James and Isaiah Canaan.

[RunDogGun]

Sure, but NY was 21-45 the year before with Payton doing more handling. Heck, when he played for us for 19 games, we started him and started out 0-6, before finally winning 1, and he followed that up with a 12 game losing streak, so we went ahead and cut him after his 1-18 record starting.

Our team wasn't good that year, at 21-61, but aside from the horrendous start with Bledsoe at 0-3, and the Payton games, we were 20-40, winning at least 1 out of every 3 games.

And it was Ulis starting the majority of those other games with a little Mike James and Isaiah Canaan.

I am not sure what a team's record has to do with how well a guy passes, but Payton has passed well throughout his career, and one season of a role change shouldn't be the norm. Dude has 17 triple doubles, tied with Scottie Pippin. One more than Jerry West, Chris Paul, and Kevin Garnett. And he is only 26. If you can find a guy that will play for the vet min with that many career triple doubles, I say you let the team know.

Funny side note: Mike James started for the BKN Nets this year.

[bwgood77]

Sure, but NY was 21-45 the year before with Payton doing more handling. Heck, when he played for us for 19 games, we started him and started out 0-6, before finally winning 1, and he followed that up with a 12 game losing streak, so we went ahead and cut him after his 1-18 record starting.

Our team wasn't good that year, at 21-61, but aside from the horrendous start with Bledsoe at 0-3, and the Payton games, we were 20-40, winning at least 1 out of every 3 games.

And it was Ulis starting the majority of those other games with a little Mike James and Isaiah Canaan.

I am not sure what a team's record has to do with how well a guy passes, but Payton has passed well throughout his career, and one season of a role change shouldn't be the norm. Dude has 17 triple doubles, tied with Scottie Pippin. One more than Jerry West, Chris Paul, and Kevin Garnett. And he is only 26. If you can find a guy that will play for the vet min with that many career triple doubles, I say you let the team know.

Funny side note: Mike James started for the BKN Nets this year.

Yeah, I knew he had triple doubles the first time he came to the Suns. I was interested in seeing him then. Thought he would make us a lot better. I was wrong. As a third stringer I don't really care, though I'd probably prefer a 5th guard to be a guy with probably a little more upside who might make a big jump, like Payne did. For example, even though Payton played ahead of and a lot more than Ntilikina for the Knicks, I'd probably prefer taking a flyer on him too. I think part of the reason I wouldn't mind taking a flyer on a young PG is because we have a perfect mentor in Paul. We always talked about Nash or other vets "mentoring" players, but they never really did much of that teaching. CP3 spends so much time doing it I think he really helps them, and probably really with the PGs.

I've never been a fan of non shooters though. Especially at guard. Especially in this day and age. I know Payton is a good assist guy and solid rebounder.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I'm afraid JJ is waiting for Kevin Love and I don't know if that is good for the team and/or Jalen.

Maybe good for the team and bad for Jalen or bad for both, team and player, but I can't imagine a good scenario for everyone.

If Love obviously came off the bench for us and at the DPE or Bi annual, Then he'd still being solid value I'd have to think. Also I'd run him at the 4, Mgee at the 5, Then switch with Love at the 5 and Smith at the 4. But both Mgee defensively ( rim protection) and Love for offense ( 3 point shooting/ rebounding strategy) could be huge as mentors for Smith I think. I'd also maybe................. Toy with the idea of sending both Ayton and Smith to Olajuwans' dream camp to work on post refinement skills, etc.

[Puff]

I'm afraid JJ is waiting for Kevin Love and I don't know if that is good for the team and/or Jalen.

Maybe good for the team and bad for Jalen or bad for both, team and player, but I can't imagine a good scenario for everyone.

The Lakers seem like the odds on favorites to land Love.

How are they going to distribute playing time?

With Lebron and the "Brow" on crutches it may not be that difficult.

[RunDogGun]

Yeah, I knew he had triple doubles the first time he came to the Suns. I was interested in seeing him then. Thought he would make us a lot better. I was wrong. As a third stringer I don't really care, though I'd probably prefer a 5th guard to be a guy with probably a little more upside who might make a big jump, like Payne did. For example, even though Payton played ahead of and a lot more than Ntilikina for the Knicks, I'd probably prefer taking a flyer on him too. I think part of the reason I wouldn't mind taking a flyer on a young PG is because we have a perfect mentor in Paul. We always talked about Nash or other vets "mentoring" players, but they never really did much of that teaching. CP3 spends so much time doing it I think he really helps them, and probably really with the PGs.

I've never been a fan of non shooters though. Especially at guard. Especially in this day and age. I know Payton is a good assist guy and solid rebounder.

If you were hoping Payton would have made that Suns team "a lot" better, and the fact that the team played poorly all year, and that soured you on Payton....well that seems strange for someone who uses stats and watches as many games as you do.

I wanted to re-sign Payton when we had him. Even if he didn't start, his skills are nice to have on the team.

I am very content with adding the best triple double player on our team for vet min at age 26. Maybe assists and rebounds are exactly what we need at the guard position?

[alamin330]

Elfrid Payton went from starting all 63 regular season games he played and playing 26 minutes per game to starting in 2/5 1st round playoff games playing 6 minutes per game and 3 DNP-CD to finish the series.

He might be a nice pickup for the reg season but again there’s no improvement to guys who can’t help in the playoffs

[RunDogGun]

I'm afraid JJ is waiting for Kevin Love and I don't know if that is good for the team and/or Jalen.

Maybe good for the team and bad for Jalen or bad for both, team and player, but I can't imagine a good scenario for everyone.

The Lakers seem like the odds on favorites to land Love.

How are they going to distribute playing time?

With Lebron and the "Brow" on crutches it may not be that difficult.

I think LAL have 9 players over 30. I think they might need more guys that are younger and more durable than Love. But it is possible.

[bwgood77]

Yeah, I knew he had triple doubles the first time he came to the Suns. I was interested in seeing him then. Thought he would make us a lot better. I was wrong. As a third stringer I don't really care, though I'd probably prefer a 5th guard to be a guy with probably a little more upside who might make a big jump, like Payne did. For example, even though Payton played ahead of and a lot more than Ntilikina for the Knicks, I'd probably prefer taking a flyer on him too. I think part of the reason I wouldn't mind taking a flyer on a young PG is because we have a perfect mentor in Paul. We always talked about Nash or other vets "mentoring" players, but they never really did much of that teaching. CP3 spends so much time doing it I think he really helps them, and probably really with the PGs.

I've never been a fan of non shooters though. Especially at guard. Especially in this day and age. I know Payton is a good assist guy and solid rebounder.

If you were hoping Payton would have made that Suns team "a lot" better, and the fact that the team played poorly all year, and that soured you on Payton....well that seems strange for someone who uses stats and watches as many games as you do.

I wanted to re-sign Payton when we had him. Even if he didn't start, his skills are nice to have on the team.

I am very content with adding the best triple double player on our team for vet min at age 26. Maybe assists and rebounds are exactly what we need at the guard position?

I expected him to make us better because we had started out terribly after firing our coach and the Bledsoe ordeal after 3 games getting blown out to start 0-3. Then trying Mike James for 10 games and Ulis for a half season or so, we were 18-38, but obviously neither were even close to being starter level quality, and Payton had been starting for the Magic, and even though they were not good, he was still fairly young. But after his 19 starts, we were 19-56, so not only did he not make us better, but a lot worse, taking a team that had won about 34% of their games post Bledsoe, winning only 5% of our games with him starting.

Then the Pelicans gave him a shot but decided he wasn't worth keeping after a year, and then the Knicks let him go and he was available for the minimum. Just not an inspiring signing. I followed the Knicks forum some and I am not sure I've seen a player as disliked on a team forum as he was.

[RunDogGun]

Elfrid Payton went from starting all 63 regular season games he played and playing 26 minutes per game to starting in 2/5 1st round playoff games playing 6 minutes per game and 3 DNP-CD to finish the series.

He might be a nice pickup for the reg season but again there’s no improvement to guys who can’t help in the playoffs

Thibs could have not liked the match up. I mean he literally trusted him for 65 games, to start. Honestly, I don't know what you are implying, that he fell apart after 63 starts on a playoff team? Payton still has 17 more triple doubles than many guys on our team, and he is only 26. I think he is more than qualified to be the third string point guard.

I think people don't realize how difficult it is to get a triple double in the NBA.

[RunDogGun]

NOP started Payton for 42 games, which was all the games he played that season averaging 10.6/7.2, and they traded to get Lonzo Ball the following year, who oddly had very similar stats to Elf while in NO. No real need to have similar players at the point.

Maybe you guys should stop being so repetitively negative about Elf, and give him the respect he has earned.

[RunDogGun]

I expected him to make us better because we had started out terribly after firing our coach and the Bledsoe ordeal after 3 games getting blown out to start 0-3. Then trying Mike James for 10 games and Ulis for a half season or so, we were 18-38, but obviously neither were even close to being starter level quality, and Payton had been starting for the Magic, and even though they were not good, he was still fairly young. But after his 19 starts, we were 19-56, so not only did he not make us better, but a lot worse, taking a team that had won about 34% of their games post Bledsoe, winning only 5% of our games with him starting.

Then the Pelicans gave him a shot but decided he wasn't worth keeping after a year, and then the Knicks let him go and he was available for the minimum. Just not an inspiring signing. I followed the Knicks forum some and I am not sure I've seen a player as disliked on a team forum as he was.

We had the most dysfunctional team that year. We had two coaches that season. We started Chriss 49 games, Bender 37, and Jackson 35 games. Those three this board ripped constantly for not playing well, and Elf was supposed to fix them? He came in and instantly was our best assist guy, so he did make us better on that alone. We didn't get Lebron, we got a 23 yr old pg with limited shooting touch, with a bunch of misfits. We had two decent players in Booker and Warren, but neither were good on defense, and Elf still got a triple double with those guys. Sorry you thought he would miraculously turn that group into winners.

[Fo-Real]

Read on Twitter

Jae Crowder is loving the valley and the beautiful women it’s got lol.

Jae is married.

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

Jae Crowder is loving the valley and the beautiful women it’s got lol.

Jae is married.

Still him though. And maybe he’s not married anymore idk.

Just saw it on twitter and since it’s slow news day now thought I’ll share lol. I’m all for anything to help the Phoenix economy haha.

[bwgood77]

I expected him to make us better because we had started out terribly after firing our coach and the Bledsoe ordeal after 3 games getting blown out to start 0-3. Then trying Mike James for 10 games and Ulis for a half season or so, we were 18-38, but obviously neither were even close to being starter level quality, and Payton had been starting for the Magic, and even though they were not good, he was still fairly young. But after his 19 starts, we were 19-56, so not only did he not make us better, but a lot worse, taking a team that had won about 34% of their games post Bledsoe, winning only 5% of our games with him starting.

Then the Pelicans gave him a shot but decided he wasn't worth keeping after a year, and then the Knicks let him go and he was available for the minimum. Just not an inspiring signing. I followed the Knicks forum some and I am not sure I've seen a player as disliked on a team forum as he was.

We had the most dysfunctional team that year. We had two coaches that season. He came in and instantly was our best assist guy, so he did make us better on that alone. We didn't get Lebron, we got a 23 yr old pg with limited shooting touch, with a bunch of misfits. We had two decent players in Booker and Warren, but neither were good on defense, and Elf still got a triple double with those guys. Sorry you thought he would miraculously turn that group into winners.

I don't know how you think he made us better when we were winning 1 of 3 games before him and 1 of 19 with him. Who cares how many assists a guy gets? I know you are big on his triple doubles and assists. Like I said, he's fine for a 5th guard. I don't think he's nearly as good as you do though. Glad you're happy to have him though.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

Jae Crowder is loving the valley and the beautiful women it’s got lol.

Jae is married.

Still him though. And maybe he’s not married anymore idk.

Just saw it on twitter and since it’s slow news day now thought I’ll share lol. I’m all for anything to help the Phoenix economy haha.

What indication is it that it's from Jae?