Game 3: Detroit Pistons (0-2) vs New York Knicks (2-1) Friday 8PM EST on NBA TV

[buzzkilloton]

It's what's left. Debbie downers, and pissing and moaning.

Enjoy your stay.

It's come to a point where the drafted player (or the FA signing) has to look like a superstar almost instantly. Otherwise, the player will be called a complete bust and most of the fan base will be actively rooting for the player's failure just so they could to come out thump their chests. Every player's growth trajectory HAS to be a straight line. There is no room for patience.

If a new shiny toy appears (Cade), the old one (Killian) has to disappear almost simultaneously. Repeat this cycle if the Pistons land another #1 next season.

Or maybe we've drafted a bunch of busts for the past 10 years in the first round and everyone sees it?

If the shiny new toy/superstar theory was true why arent people dissing Bey/Stewert? Maybe its because Bey and Stewert arent busts so they dont get any hate.

[thesack12]

It's what's left. Debbie downers, and pissing and moaning.

Enjoy your stay.

It's come to a point where the drafted player (or the FA signing) has to look like a superstar almost instantly. Otherwise, the player will be called a complete bust and most of the fan base will be actively rooting for the player's failure just so they could to come out thump their chests. Every player's growth trajectory HAS to be a straight line. There is no room for patience.

If a new shiny toy appears (Cade), the old one (Killian) has to disappear almost simultaneously. Repeat this cycle if the Pistons land another #1 next season.

Or maybe we've drafted a bunch of busts for the past 10 years in the first round and everyone sees it?

If the shiny new toy/superstar theory was true why arent people dissing Bey/Stewert? Maybe its because Bey and Stewert arent busts so they dont get any hate.

Yeah, some of the Killian negativity in posts can be a little over the top, but that's what happens in game threads. People are reactive in the moment.

Anybody that has watched Killian since he got to Detroit without a subjective eye, has to be honest with themselves that he clearly has some worrisome traits/holes in his game. Of course that doesn't mean that he can't improve, but there are also tons of guys that can't ever overcome their weaknesses or improve their overall skillset.

Regarding "its only a couple games in summer league," while that is absolutely valid, it also goes both ways. If Killian was wrecking summer league, something tells me the "its only summer league" mantra wouldn't be nearly as vocal.

Also, I'm not sure how criticizing a player for playing poorly automatically means that you either hate that player or want him to fail.

[chrbal]

It's come to a point where the drafted player (or the FA signing) has to look like a superstar almost instantly. Otherwise, the player will be called a complete bust and most of the fan base will be actively rooting for the player's failure just so they could to come out thump their chests. Every player's growth trajectory HAS to be a straight line. There is no room for patience.

If a new shiny toy appears (Cade), the old one (Killian) has to disappear almost simultaneously. Repeat this cycle if the Pistons land another #1 next season.

Or maybe we've drafted a bunch of busts for the past 10 years in the first round and everyone sees it?

If the shiny new toy/superstar theory was true why arent people dissing Bey/Stewert? Maybe its because Bey and Stewert arent busts so they dont get any hate.

Yeah, some of the Killian negativity in posts can be a little over the top, but that's what happens in game threads. People are reactive in the moment.

Anybody that has watched Killian since he got to Detroit without a subjective eye, has to be honest with themselves that he clearly has some worrisome traits/holes in his game. Of course that doesn't mean that he can't improve, but there are also tons of guys that can't ever overcome their weaknesses or improve their overall skillset.

Regarding "its only a couple games in summer league," while that is absolutely valid, it also goes both ways. If Killian was wrecking summer league, something tells me the "its only summer league" mantra wouldn't be nearly as vocal.

Also, I'm not sure how criticizing a player for playing poorly automatically means that you either hate that player or want him to fail.

I can only speak for myself, but even with Garza’s performance I still think he’s better off on a two way contract playing primarily for the Cruise.

But I absolutely get your point. I feel like landing Cade at 1 put a lot more fan pressure on everyone else on the roster. Killian lost, because he’s become the focal point of people’s attention. Sekou won, because he’s pretty much faded into the background.

[bstein14]

If I'm Weaver I'm not picking up Sekou's 4th year option. He likely could be resigned for the minimum there is no reason to pay him $5.54 million next year when we could be using that cap space for an impact player. Weaver needs to make that decision soon. He's shown much less than Stanley Johnson did at this point and Stanley signed a tiny contract with Toronto after we traded him.

[Han Solo]

Box scores shows Pistons up and Cade is having a good game. Why the downer posts in the thread? Just hot takes from a slow start?

It's what's left. Debbie downers, and pissing and moaning.

Enjoy your stay.

Cade looked great.

Not sure why some Pistons fans are jumping in with the narrative being applied to Cade by casuals. They want him to fail.

He could be a 6’7 Steph Curry type player. Dude can shoot it from anywhere. He’s a great defender. A true leader. I’m so excited he’s a Piston.

Wish people would quit bashing Killian so hard too. Dude plays his ass off. One of the best on ball defenders I’ve seen on a Detroit team in a decade. He will be important to this team.

[zeebneeb]

Box scores shows Pistons up and Cade is having a good game. Why the downer posts in the thread? Just hot takes from a slow start?

It's what's left. Debbie downers, and pissing and moaning.

Enjoy your stay.

Cade looked great.

Not sure why some Pistons fans are jumping in with the narrative being applied to Cade by casuals. They want him to fail.

He could be a 6’7 Steph Curry type player. Dude can shoot it from anywhere. He’s a great defender. A true leader. I’m so excited he’s a Piston.

Wish people would quit bashing Killian so hard too. Dude plays his ass off. One of the best on ball defenders I’ve seen on a Detroit team in a decade. He will be important to this team.

I agree 100%. What amazes me about Hayes, is that he checks a bunch of boxes with innate talent(defense is steller, passing is steller)and has only played 26 NBA games and people are making declarative statements about him as a player.

It absolutely makes zero sense to me. Cade hasn't even played 1 damn NBA game.

Pistons fans have zero excuse for this with the teams history.

[A_dub06]

It's what's left. Debbie downers, and pissing and moaning.

Enjoy your stay.

It's come to a point where the drafted player (or the FA signing) has to look like a superstar almost instantly. Otherwise, the player will be called a complete bust and most of the fan base will be actively rooting for the player's failure just so they could to come out thump their chests. Every player's growth trajectory HAS to be a straight line. There is no room for patience.

If a new shiny toy appears (Cade), the old one (Killian) has to disappear almost simultaneously. Repeat this cycle if the Pistons land another #1 next season.

Or maybe we've drafted a bunch of busts for the past 10 years in the first round and everyone sees it?

If the shiny new toy/superstar theory was true why arent people dissing Bey/Stewert? Maybe its because Bey and Stewert arent busts so they dont get any hate.

To take this further, how many times have we drafted in the last decade where a really good player was taken just after our pick or we selected the right player but the team didn’t give them the opportunity they deserved?

Some examples that come straight mind:

- 2015: Stanley Johnson @ 8th and Devin Booker was taken 13th.
- 2013: KCP taken 8th and McCollum was taken 10th.
- 2016: Henry Ellenson taken 18th and the next two picks were Malik Beasley and Caris Levert.
- 2017: Took Kennard 12th and Donovan Mitchell was the 13th pick.
- Drafted Khris Middleton and Spencer Dinwiddie in the second round and let them blow up on other teams.

Now the SJ draft in 2015 I give SVG a pass since we needed a SF and Johnson appeared to be a decent prospect, but our front office’s entire drafting strategy has resulted in some terrible choices where fit was prioritised or they would target shooting but pick someone that had a decent looking stroke but couldn’t really shoot the ball and wasn’t athletic &/or skilled enough to become anything else. For a team that’s been DESPERATE for talent the last decade we needed to hit on some of our picks and there was clearly players available that could’ve helped change our fortune. We can’t expect the GM to get the pick right every time but this many mistakes both drafting and then playing/developing? Now we finally got the number one pick, for better or worse he is going to have extremely high expectations if nothing else for the fact he’s the number one pick. That’s where superstars get drafted, and it’s why we drafted him otherwise if you just want a roster filler you trade down and take someone else.

I’ve been vocal about my criticisms of Cade but nothing I’ve said was completely off base and not already listed in scouting reports available to anyone with a computer and internet access. If I want to discuss his negatives and my doubts about him more than I celebrate his successes from what we have seen in SL does that make me any less of a fan or the subject matter any less relevant? I think not.

[Manocad]

It's come to a point where the drafted player (or the FA signing) has to look like a superstar almost instantly. Otherwise, the player will be called a complete bust and most of the fan base will be actively rooting for the player's failure just so they could to come out thump their chests. Every player's growth trajectory HAS to be a straight line. There is no room for patience.

If a new shiny toy appears (Cade), the old one (Killian) has to disappear almost simultaneously. Repeat this cycle if the Pistons land another #1 next season.

Or maybe we've drafted a bunch of busts for the past 10 years in the first round and everyone sees it?

If the shiny new toy/superstar theory was true why arent people dissing Bey/Stewert? Maybe its because Bey and Stewert arent busts so they dont get any hate.

To take this further, how many times have we drafted in the last decade where a really good player was taken just after our pick or we selected the right player but the team didn’t give them the opportunity they deserved?

Some examples that come straight mind:

- 2015: Stanley Johnson @ 8th and Devin Booker was taken 13th.
- 2013: KCP taken 8th and McCollum was taken 10th.
- 2016: Henry Ellenson taken 18th and the next two picks were Malik Beasley and Caris Levert.
- 2017: Took Kennard 12th and Donovan Mitchell was the 13th pick.
- Drafted Khris Middleton and Spencer Dinwiddie in the second round and let them blow up on other teams.

Now the SJ draft in 2015 I give SVG a pass since we needed a SF and Johnson appeared to be a decent prospect, but our front office’s entire drafting strategy has resulted in some terrible choices where fit was prioritised or they would target shooting but pick someone that had a decent looking stroke but couldn’t really shoot the ball and wasn’t athletic &/or skilled enough to become anything else. For a team that’s been DESPERATE for talent the last decade we needed to hit on some of our picks and there was clearly players available that could’ve helped change our fortune. We can’t expect the GM to get the pick right every time but this many mistakes both drafting and then playing/developing? Now we finally got the number one pick, for better or worse he is going to have extremely high expectations if nothing else for the fact he’s the number one pick. That’s where superstars get drafted, and it’s why we drafted him otherwise if you just want a roster filler you trade down and take someone else.

I’ve been vocal about my criticisms of Cade but nothing I’ve said was completely off base and not already listed in scouting reports available to anyone with a computer and internet access. If I want to discuss his negatives and my doubts about him more than I celebrate his successes from what we have seen in SL does that make me any less of a fan or the subject matter any less relevant? I think not.

To take it even further, no draft decisions in the last 10 years have anything to do with what has taken place during the Weaver regime.
Zero.
Zip.
Zilch.
Nothing.
Nada.
Doesn't apply in any way, shape or form. Come up with a better excuse.

[treefi]

To take it even further, no draft decisions in the last 10 years have anything to do with what has taken place during the Weaver regime.
Zero.
Zip.
Zilch.
Nothing.
Nada.
Doesn't apply in any way, shape or form. Come up with a better excuse.

Of course it doesn't but the last 10-15 years of drafting in the lottery matters to every Pistons fan evaluating Hayes. We have a lot of recent experience witnessing what year one and two looks like for a lottery pick prospect that busts. I was wrong about Darko even after we got rid of him. I was wrong about Stuckey. Knight. Drummond. Caldwell-Pope. Stanley Johnson. And more than likely—Sekou and Hayes.

Hopefully I'm wrong now about how much Hayes is struggling.

[Manocad]

To take it even further, no draft decisions in the last 10 years have anything to do with what has taken place during the Weaver regime.
Zero.
Zip.
Zilch.
Nothing.
Nada.
Doesn't apply in any way, shape or form. Come up with a better excuse.

Of course it doesn't but the last 10-15 years of drafting in the lottery matters to every Pistons fan evaluating Hayes. We have a lot of recent experience witnessing what year one and two looks like for a lottery pick prospect that busts. I was wrong about Darko even after we got rid of him. I was wrong about Stuckey. Knight. Drummond. Caldwell-Pope. Stanley Johnson. And more than likely—Sekou and Hayes.

Hopefully I'm wrong now about how much Hayes is struggling.

No one with even a quarter of a brain looks at Hayes and says "Given the history of Pistons' draft picks that didn't turn out great, Hayes likely won't either. Get rid of him ASAP." It matters to every Pistons fan? Nope. It doesn't matter to me. Every pick is a different player.

[zeebneeb]

Manocad fighting the good fight.

Good luck buddy.

[FloridaMan78]

To take it even further, no draft decisions in the last 10 years have anything to do with what has taken place during the Weaver regime.
Zero.
Zip.
Zilch.
Nothing.
Nada.
Doesn't apply in any way, shape or form. Come up with a better excuse.

Of course it doesn't but the last 10-15 years of drafting in the lottery matters to every Pistons fan evaluating Hayes. We have a lot of recent experience witnessing what year one and two looks like for a lottery pick prospect that busts. I was wrong about Darko even after we got rid of him. I was wrong about Stuckey. Knight. Drummond. Caldwell-Pope. Stanley Johnson. And more than likely—Sekou and Hayes.

Hopefully I'm wrong now about how much Hayes is struggling.

No one with even a quarter of a brain looks at Hayes and says "Given the history of Pistons' draft picks that didn't turn out great, Hayes likely won't either. Get rid of him ASAP." It matters to every Pistons fan? Nope. It doesn't matter to me. Every pick is a different player.

I don’t think we should get rid of him yet. But I am past gifting him minutes. If he plays he’s gotta earn his minutes in my book. If he plays well, play him. If he plays poorly sit him. His leash should be tighter now. If he’s the starter, he better have deserved it.

[Manocad]

Of course it doesn't but the last 10-15 years of drafting in the lottery matters to every Pistons fan evaluating Hayes. We have a lot of recent experience witnessing what year one and two looks like for a lottery pick prospect that busts. I was wrong about Darko even after we got rid of him. I was wrong about Stuckey. Knight. Drummond. Caldwell-Pope. Stanley Johnson. And more than likely—Sekou and Hayes.

Hopefully I'm wrong now about how much Hayes is struggling.

No one with even a quarter of a brain looks at Hayes and says "Given the history of Pistons' draft picks that didn't turn out great, Hayes likely won't either. Get rid of him ASAP." It matters to every Pistons fan? Nope. It doesn't matter to me. Every pick is a different player.

I don’t think we should get rid of him yet. But I am past gifting him minutes. If he plays he’s gotta earn his minutes in my book. If he plays well, play him. If he plays poorly sit him. His leash should be tighter now. If he’s the starter, he better have deserved it.

So what you're saying is that Casey should coach like a normal coach would. I think he's capable of that.