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With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2

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Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#841 » by Mark_83 » Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:35 pm

StopitLeo wrote:
HiJiNX wrote:
Mark_83 wrote:Does anyone else notice Scottie is too upright in everything he does? On defense he doesn't always sit down as much as he should. On offense when he's shooting threes he doesn't ben his knees. When he drives to the basket, his legs tend to be very straight and he's very upright which doesn't give him the flexibility to explode through contact or towards the basket at the end of his drives. Hopefully it's something the Raptors notice and work with him on. Too many times you see him make it all the way to the bucket and he doesn't have enough left to finish so he puts up an awkward or weak shot.

That’s a core strength issue. As big as Barnes is, I can clearly see an issue of core strength. It’s why he can’t shoot consistently and why he can’t explode through contact or past defenders. In a few years we won’t have to worry about that as much at all once he’s had a few years of NBA conditioning programs.


Very similar to OG as a rookie imo.

100%. In fact, OG only started getting better with it this year imo.
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Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#842 » by PhilBlackson » Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:43 pm

HumbleRen wrote:
hype_2004 wrote:
Uncle Dennis wrote:
I know right? Scottie was already measured at 225 at like 5% body fat. How much more cut can he be? he needs to probably gain about 10 pounds or so in the next year.


Barnes would be a real problem at 240 lbs, like I've said he has the frame to add more muscle and will likely increase his explosive ability. Giannis was quick at 200 lbs rookie season but he wasn't explosive then he dedicated himself to strength and core training now he's 245 lbs dominating everybody.
Giannis always had that bounce and fluidity though. Scottie doesn’t have that, I don’t think bulking up is the right path. It’s more so balance and strength training.

He’s at a great size right now, just has to work on his conditioning and the little things like core strength, unlocking his hips. Etc etc


Totally agree but I would say that there will be no avoiding Scottie being bigger than what he is today. Which is the crazy thing about him because he already has the size and broadness of a full grown man and one of the bigger ones at that...

He's just going to even thicker & stronger in a few years like every man does. Could be monstrous almost like a slightly slimmer Malone.
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Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#843 » by Dalek » Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:08 pm

The more you watch Scottie and take in his size (just already has a physical forward's body) and being more comfortable on post-ups and quick moves to the basket, he looks like more of a PF in the mold of a Thaddeus Young.

Young was always a good defender, unselfish and could score because he had a kind of quirky but effective post game. Young also struggled a fair bit with his jumper through his career, but I do think Scottie will be better from outside. Both great intangibles guys with unselfish ability to make teams better.

This video goes back to Thad's third year in the league:
;t=61s&ab_channel=GenoLenski
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Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#844 » by Jcity08 » Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:14 pm

Scottie will easily add another 20 to 30 lbs by the time he hits his prime, with that frame of his.

Expect 245 by then at least.

He is already showing he can play bully ball and get to the line.
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Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#845 » by Los_29 » Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:19 pm

Dalek wrote:The more you watch Scottie and take in his size (just already has a physical forward's body) and being more comfortable on post-ups and quick moves to the basket, he looks like more of a PF in the mold of a Thaddeus Young.

Young was always a good defender, unselfish and could score because he had a kind of quirky but effective post game. Young also struggled a fair bit with his jumper through his career, but I do think Scottie will be better from outside. Both great intangibles guys with unselfish ability to make teams better.

This video goes back to Thad's third year in the league:
;t=61s&ab_channel=GenoLenski


Interesting comparison. Thad had a lot of upside coming into the league. Actually shot the three ball well in college as well but his shooting actually regressed over time. He also didn't have the body that Scottie has and came into the league as a poor ball handler and passer. So I'd say they are quite different in many areas.
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Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#846 » by ItsDanger » Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:52 pm

Scottie in the half court is actually quite similar to Rasheed Wallace (also picked 4th overall).
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Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#847 » by Dalek » Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:55 pm

Los_29 wrote:
Dalek wrote:The more you watch Scottie and take in his size (just already has a physical forward's body) and being more comfortable on post-ups and quick moves to the basket, he looks like more of a PF in the mold of a Thaddeus Young.

Young was always a good defender, unselfish and could score because he had a kind of quirky but effective post game. Young also struggled a fair bit with his jumper through his career, but I do think Scottie will be better from outside. Both great intangibles guys with unselfish ability to make teams better.

This video goes back to Thad's third year in the league:
;t=61s&ab_channel=GenoLenski


Interesting comparison. Thad had a lot of upside coming into the league. Actually shot the three ball well in college as well but his shooting actually regressed over time. He also didn't have the body that Scottie has and came into the league as a poor ball handler and passer. So I'd say they are quite different in many areas.


No comp will be perfect especially with a unique player like Scottie who is already man size. I think if you look at how Thad was the tweener PF/SF and how he managed to stick based on defense and his innate scoring ability - I think that could be the niche for Scottie. I don't see Scottie having an elite handle, he is functional in a similar way to Thad is now, but his passing is more advanced.
Interesting to read the DX profile for Young:

Spoiler:
Overview:Talented young lefty combo forward with excellent physical attributes. Undersized for the power forward slot, where he has seen most of his playing time thus far, but has the length and athleticism to compensate defensively and still emerge as a bigtime mismatch on the offensive end. Extremely fluid, explosive player who out-quicks opponents on a regular basis with his terrific activity level. Has a knack for making plays, even if his skill-level is still a work in progress. Very effective on the defensive end as well. One and done out of Georgia Tech, drafted at the end of the lottery and looked like a very nice find for Philadelphia in their up-tempo offense. Quickly became a 15 point per game scorer in his second NBA season, and is still just scratching the surface on his potential at age 21. Work ethic, intangibles are reportedly outstanding.

Offense: Versatile offensive player who is extremely efficient, yet still lacks polish on his all-around game. Knows his limitations and for the most part sticks to what he does best. Shoots a high percentage inside the arc, and makes a respectable amount of his outside attempts as well. Excellent in transition, regularly beats opponents down the floor. Very effective facing up from the perimeter and blowing by his opponent thanks to his terrific first step. Has all kinds of nifty spin-moves and pivots in his arsenal, as well as the touch to convert tough shots around the basket. Can post-up a bit, mostly by using his quickness to get around defenders, has a very nice jump-hook he likes to mix in with a variety of scoop shots and floaters, which he again can convert impressively. Not the most advanced ball-handler in the world, struggles changing directions with the ball and possesses very little ability to drive or finish with his right hand. Doesnt get to the free throw line much. Makes a respectable percentage of his 3-pointers, albeit on just a few attempts each game. Has somewhat of an ugly, flat-footed stroke with a fairly slow release, not all that different from many left-handed players. Still expanding the range on his shot, but has made serious strides in that area. Not bad at all with his feet set, and capable of making some shots off the dribble. Seems to have the touch to develop into a solid perimeter shooter in time, which will only augment the rest of his fairly versatile game. Does not turn the ball over much, but is also an exceptionally poor passer.

Defense: Has prototypical tools for a small forward with his terrific size, length and lateral quickness, but has mostly been asked to defend the power forward position, which he lacks a bit of size for. Gets posted up a fair amount, and has some issues at times, especially against bigger, stronger power forwards. Puts a solid effort in, but lacks experience and fundamentals guarding the post. Seems to have many of the same issues on the perimeter, tends to lose his focus and get beaten off the dribble fairly easily. Too upright at times, out of position or flat-footed in others, Young can make plays thanks to his tremendous natural gifts, but he still has a ways to go before reaching his full potential on this end of the floor. He's also nowhere near as good of a rebounder as you might hope considering his length and athleticism combined with the amount of minutes he spends at the power forward position. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/thaddeus-young-450/
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Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#848 » by sidsid » Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:06 pm

HiJiNX wrote:
Mark_83 wrote:Does anyone else notice Scottie is too upright in everything he does? On defense he doesn't always sit down as much as he should. On offense when he's shooting threes he doesn't ben his knees. When he drives to the basket, his legs tend to be very straight and he's very upright which doesn't give him the flexibility to explode through contact or towards the basket at the end of his drives. Hopefully it's something the Raptors notice and work with him on. Too many times you see him make it all the way to the bucket and he doesn't have enough left to finish so he puts up an awkward or weak shot.

That’s a core strength issue. As big as Barnes is, I can clearly see an issue of core strength. It’s why he can’t shoot consistently and why he can’t explode through contact or past defenders. In a few years we won’t have to worry about that as much at all once he’s had a few years of NBA conditioning programs.


Do we have comp examples for guys who were athletic but not explosive, but then became these strong, twitchy athletes?

I can definitely see him growing and getting stronger, but I don't know how that would turn him into one of those pogo stick guys.
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Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#849 » by nikster » Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:51 pm

HumbleRen wrote:
hype_2004 wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:His athleticism gives me post injury Jabari Parker jumping vibes. Not explosive or quick in the half court but a good power dunker.

He either needs to refine his first step or jumping techniques or lose 10 pounds or so.


Lose 10 lbs, you crazy. In fact it's the opposite he needs to get bigger and stronger than he already is, the core strength training will increase his explosive ability. At 225 lbs he is of ideal weight but to truly be dominant he needs to be in the 240 lbs+ range. too much emphasis on run and jump abilities, Al lot of guys in the NBA are athletic what separates the Kawhi, Luka and the LeBron's from the pack is power and strength. If you are bigger and stronger and just as skilled as your opponent you will dominate in any sport.


240+ ??? I don’t know man. Giannis bulking up like that ruined his shot.

yeah but Giannis came in at like 190 pounds. Theres a difference between adding 15 pounds and adding 50
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Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#850 » by anotherhomer » Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:54 pm

Thaddeus young is an interesting comparison
Though Scottie is a bit taller and have a slightly bigger wingspan

Hope that makes a difference
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Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#851 » by everdiso » Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:55 pm

Scottie was over 225lbs at the combine. Adding 20lbs to that as he matures is almost a lock.

Heck, I'd say he's already gained weight since the combine.
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Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#852 » by Raps in 4 » Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:57 pm

everdiso wrote:Scottie was over 225lbs at the combine. Adding 20lbs to that as he matures is almost a lock.

Heck, I'd say he's already gained weight since the combine.


Why does he need to bulk up? He's strong enough to guard just about anyone already.
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Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#853 » by dc » Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:03 pm

ItsDanger wrote:Scottie in the half court is actually quite similar to Rasheed Wallace (also picked 4th overall).


Rasheed was 6'10" barefoot and, in his prime, very athletic. He'd throw down lobs that you initially thought were way too high. Guy was a freak. He'd be a C in today's game.
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Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#854 » by dc » Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:05 pm

Raps in 4 wrote:
everdiso wrote:Scottie was over 225lbs at the combine. Adding 20lbs to that as he matures is almost a lock.

Heck, I'd say he's already gained weight since the combine.


Why does he need to bulk up? He's strong enough to guard just about anyone already.


I agree. It's better to keep him mobile. I don't see any reason for this guy to be playing at 250 lbs unless you want him as a full time C, which would wouldn't be wise.

I have no idea why people keep pushing this guy to be something that he isn't (Giannis, Rasheed, Kawhi, Malone, etc..)
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Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#855 » by hype_2004 » Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:20 pm

Raps in 4 wrote:
everdiso wrote:Scottie was over 225lbs at the combine. Adding 20lbs to that as he matures is almost a lock.

Heck, I'd say he's already gained weight since the combine.


Why does he need to bulk up? He's strong enough to guard just about anyone already.


Why not? Bigger and stronger players dominate. LeBron is 260 lbs, kawhi 245 lbs, Giannis 245, Luka 240 lbs. This is a man's game, the bigger stronger players who are equally or more skilled will always dominate.
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Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#856 » by everdiso » Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:30 pm

Raps in 4 wrote:
everdiso wrote:Scottie was over 225lbs at the combine. Adding 20lbs to that as he matures is almost a lock.

Heck, I'd say he's already gained weight since the combine.


Why does he need to bulk up? He's strong enough to guard just about anyone already.


Not really about need - simply true that most people naturally thicken up as they age through their twenties.
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Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#857 » by tdotrep2 » Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:35 pm

The best comp draymond, some may not like it but that's how it is. There are definitely shades of giannis, he just doesnt have the explosiveness or the 7 foot frame
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Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#858 » by Raps in 4 » Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:43 pm

tdotrep2 wrote:The best comp draymond, some may not like it but that's how it is. There are definitely shades of giannis, he just doesnt have the explosiveness or the 7 foot frame


The Draymond comp is only accurate if he never learns to shoot.
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Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#859 » by tdotrep2 » Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:52 pm

Raps in 4 wrote:
tdotrep2 wrote:The best comp draymond, some may not like it but that's how it is. There are definitely shades of giannis, he just doesnt have the explosiveness or the 7 foot frame


The Draymond comp is only accurate if he never learns to shoot.

Or just draymond with a shot
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Re: With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2 

Post#860 » by HumbleRen » Sun Aug 15, 2021 10:00 pm

hype_2004 wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:
everdiso wrote:Scottie was over 225lbs at the combine. Adding 20lbs to that as he matures is almost a lock.

Heck, I'd say he's already gained weight since the combine.


Why does he need to bulk up? He's strong enough to guard just about anyone already.


Why not? Bigger and stronger players dominate. LeBron is 260 lbs, kawhi 245 lbs, Giannis 245, Luka 240 lbs. This is a man's game, the bigger stronger players who are equally or more skilled will always dominate.
Those guys are freaks of nature.

Luka can get away with being that big because he’s one of the most skilled players in the league, Barnes is the opposite of that.

Adding more bulk to a dude who’s already raw offensively isn’t a good thing IMO. 220-230 is a great weight to be at. He already seems like he has conditioning issues as it is.

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