Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?)

and1GS · Post #241 » by **and1GS** » Mon Aug 9, 2021 10:25 pm

I think that trade makes us better for one year and significantly worse beyond that.

What I find fascinating is we saw the Harden and Paul George trades net huge hauls - even Jrue if you want something more recent - so instantly fan bases/GMs assume every player fringe all star or above should net the same gargantuan hauls. Obviously this totally ignores the reality of those situations (Giannis and Kawhi forced their team's respective hands; Harden is a top 5 player in the NBA who forced his way out) and I think we're set for a market correction any time now.

We aren't that far removed from the Brooklyn disaster. Or Kevin Love being traded for the #1 pick in the draft and Thad Young - IIRC that was viewed either as fair value or the Cavs winning the trade, all with LeBron forcing their hand. Right now, that Kevin Love would net 6 firsts and a starter.

I know picks seem to be more de-valued than ever, but IMO once we start seeing OKC cash in on a couple of those Playoff P picks (2022, 24, 26; Tre Mann this year and 23 from Heat) the tune will change. Unless you think Paul George will drag LAC to the playoffs by himself, we haven't even passed the halfway point of that haul and OKC already has Shai Gilgeous Alexander, Tre Mann and a second lotto pick. While LAC has...

clyde21 · Post #242 » by **clyde21** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:38 am

Brick Layer wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:incoming Raps fans in 3..2..1

Direct from the Raptors board:
10giz wrote:How about:

TOR trades: Siakam + Dragic + Boucher

GSW trades: Wiggins + Wiseman + Kuminga + Moody + 2023 1st

Dragic would actually be pretty nice there.

Surprised he didn't ask for Steph and Klay too

SAKURABA216 · Post #243 » by **SAKURABA216** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:30 am

and1GS wrote:I think that trade makes us better for one year and significantly worse beyond that.

What I find fascinating is we saw the Harden and Paul George trades net huge hauls - even Jrue if you want something more recent - so instantly fan bases/GMs assume every player fringe all star or above should net the same gargantuan hauls. Obviously this totally ignores the reality of those situations (Giannis and Kawhi forced their team's respective hands; Harden is a top 5 player in the NBA who forced his way out) and I think we're set for a market correction any time now.

We aren't that far removed from the Brooklyn disaster. Or Kevin Love being traded for the #1 pick in the draft and Thad Young - IIRC that was viewed either as fair value or the Cavs winning the trade, all with LeBron forcing their hand. Right now, that Kevin Love would net 6 firsts and a starter.

I know picks seem to be more de-valued than ever, but IMO once we start seeing OKC cash in on a couple of those Playoff P picks (2022, 24, 26; Tre Mann this year and 23 from Heat) the tune will change. Unless you think Paul George will drag LAC to the playoffs by himself, we haven't even passed the halfway point of that haul and OKC already has Shai Gilgeous Alexander, Tre Mann and a second lotto pick. While LAC has...

Not all #1 picks are created equal though. The #1 that got Kevin Love was seen at the time as guaranteed to land you a generational franchise player. The Wiggins pick was more valuable at the time then even the Pistons #1 pick a few weeks ago that OKC offered Shai and #6 for. OKC with all their treasure trove of picks couldn't flip everything they had to get into the top 3.

Also, a FRP from a contending team is rightfully undervalued. How many picks in the 20-30 range would you trade Curry or Klay for?

Arlo · Post #244 » by **Arlo** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:53 am

Brick Layer wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:incoming Raps fans in 3..2..1

Direct from the Raptors board:
10giz wrote:How about:

TOR trades: Siakam + Dragic + Boucher

GSW trades: Wiggins + Wiseman + Kuminga + Moody + 2023 1st

Dragic would actually be pretty nice there.

Steph, Dragic
Klay, Poole
Porter, Iguodala, JTA
Siakam, Dray, Bjelica
Boucher, Looney, Dray

Absolutely mortgaging the future...but it would be fun for a year...

and1GS · Post #245 » by **and1GS** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:22 pm

SAKURABA216 wrote:
and1GS wrote:I think that trade makes us better for one year and significantly worse beyond that.

What I find fascinating is we saw the Harden and Paul George trades net huge hauls - even Jrue if you want something more recent - so instantly fan bases/GMs assume every player fringe all star or above should net the same gargantuan hauls. Obviously this totally ignores the reality of those situations (Giannis and Kawhi forced their team's respective hands; Harden is a top 5 player in the NBA who forced his way out) and I think we're set for a market correction any time now.

We aren't that far removed from the Brooklyn disaster. Or Kevin Love being traded for the #1 pick in the draft and Thad Young - IIRC that was viewed either as fair value or the Cavs winning the trade, all with LeBron forcing their hand. Right now, that Kevin Love would net 6 firsts and a starter.

I know picks seem to be more de-valued than ever, but IMO once we start seeing OKC cash in on a couple of those Playoff P picks (2022, 24, 26; Tre Mann this year and 23 from Heat) the tune will change. Unless you think Paul George will drag LAC to the playoffs by himself, we haven't even passed the halfway point of that haul and OKC already has Shai Gilgeous Alexander, Tre Mann and a second lotto pick. While LAC has...

Not all #1 picks are created equal though. The #1 that got Kevin Love was seen at the time as guaranteed to land you a generational franchise player. The Wiggins pick was more valuable at the time then even the Pistons #1 pick a few weeks ago that OKC offered Shai and #6 for. OKC with all their treasure trove of picks couldn't flip everything they had to get into the top 3.

I disagree on Wiggins being guaranteed to be a generational talent (based on perception at that time) as it certainly was not the narrative. There were significant questions about his motor, outside shooting and defense compounded by real debates on if he or Jabari was the best player in the draft (or if Embiid had the highest ceiling). I actually think Cade is a good parallel. Probably not a generational talent, but you'd expect some AS appearances from him.

So would you expect a trade of Cade Cunningham and, say, Josh Hart (vaguely a Thad Young type) for Bradley Beal? Because that's what we're basically talking about here. I would be blown away if something like that was accepted in today's NBA without 3-4+ attached firsts.

TrueFan420 · Post #246 » by **TrueFan420** » Tue Aug 10, 2021 4:34 pm

Arlo wrote:
Brick Layer wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:incoming Raps fans in 3..2..1

Direct from the Raptors board:
10giz wrote:How about:

TOR trades: Siakam + Dragic + Boucher

GSW trades: Wiggins + Wiseman + Kuminga + Moody + 2023 1st

Dragic would actually be pretty nice there.

Steph, Dragic
Klay, Poole
Porter, Iguodala, JTA
Siakam, Dray, Bjelica
Boucher, Looney, Dray

Absolutely mortgaging the future...but it would be fun for a year...

Raptors wouldn’t get close to that offer from us.

Dom801e · Post #247 » by **Dom801e** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:53 am

I wonder if Hou would be interested in Wiseman for Sengun + Martin or Christopher.

Post #248 » by **FNQ** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:32 am

Dom801e wrote:I wonder if Hou would be interested in Wiseman for Sengun + Martin or Christopher.

Would you, in their shoes?

I'm more impressed that they got Garuba to come over as well... they are polar opposites, him and Sengun, and itll be interesting to see if they can share the floor.

I'd imagine Wood starts getting shopped soon. Hard to figure that guy's deal, but I'm always wary of a player who trades their defense for offense, especially a big

Dom801e · Post #249 » by **Dom801e** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:03 am

FNQ wrote:
Dom801e wrote:I wonder if Hou would be interested in Wiseman for Sengun + Martin or Christopher.

Would you, in their shoes?

I'm more impressed that they got Garuba to come over as well... they are polar opposites, him and Sengun, and itll be interesting to see if they can share the floor.

I'd imagine Wood starts getting shopped soon. Hard to figure that guy's deal, but I'm always wary of a player who trades their defense for offense, especially a big

I see Wiseman as having the highest ceiling. Houston is not looking to win now and may be willing to trade the more ready player for the higher potential.

whatisacenter · Post #250 » by **whatisacenter** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:20 am

Greg Papa just said on the Giants postgame that there are some rumors of a big Warriors' trade. Not sure what that means but it caught my attention. Anyone hearing anything?

ChuckDurn · Post #251 » by **ChuckDurn** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:30 am

whatisacenter wrote:Greg Papa just said on the Giants postgame that there are some rumors of a big Warriors' trade. Not sure what that means but it caught my attention. Anyone hearing anything?

I’ve seen some chatter today on Twitter suggesting the Warriors are getting serious about trading for Simmons. Not from any of the reliable sources (e.g. Woj, Shams, etc…..), but just a lot more scuttlebutt today, for some reason, than what has already been there. Maybe Papa is referring to that.

osx28 · Post #252 » by **osx28** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:19 am

So the Pelicans just acquired Rondo and Beverly for Bledsoe. Bobby Marks says Pels are open about the future of their acquisitions. If Rondo gets bought out, is he worth the TPMLE for us or is he done?

Post #253 » by **FNQ** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:23 am

osx28 wrote:So the Pelicans just acquired Rondo and Beverly for Bledsoe. Bobby Marks says Pels are open about the future of their acquisitions. If Rondo gets bought out, is he worth the TPMLE for us or is he done?

Think you mean the Grizz, and I dont think Rondo gets more than the minimum wherever he ends up

osx28 · Post #254 » by **osx28** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:56 am

FNQ wrote:
osx28 wrote:So the Pelicans just acquired Rondo and Beverly for Bledsoe. Bobby Marks says Pels are open about the future of their acquisitions. If Rondo gets bought out, is he worth the TPMLE for us or is he done?

Think you mean the Grizz, and I dont think Rondo gets more than the minimum wherever he ends up

Woops! you're right, i don't know why my brain misread that so poorly lol .

For the minimum, I think he'd be good value then.

ILOVEIT · Post #255 » by **ILOVEIT** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:14 am

whatisacenter wrote:Greg Papa just said on the Giants postgame that there are some rumors of a big Warriors' trade. Not sure what that means but it caught my attention. Anyone hearing anything?

No...but I'm sick of youtube videos like today that are titled "Warriors get Siakam" even include "we got our man" in the dialogue....and then spend the next 15 minutes describing how it might happen

Venting...sorry lol

Impuniti · Post #256 » by **Impuniti** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:53 am

osx28 wrote:
FNQ wrote:
osx28 wrote:So the Pelicans just acquired Rondo and Beverly for Bledsoe. Bobby Marks says Pels are open about the future of their acquisitions. If Rondo gets bought out, is he worth the TPMLE for us or is he done?

Think you mean the Grizz, and I dont think Rondo gets more than the minimum wherever he ends up

Woops! you're right, i don't know why my brain misread that so poorly lol .

For the minimum, I think he'd be good value then.

This is who I hope they get for the minimum now as well. His leadership and Curry sub playmaker is what the Warriors need.

Coxy · Post #257 » by **Coxy** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:57 am

Arlo wrote:
Brick Layer wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:incoming Raps fans in 3..2..1

Direct from the Raptors board:
10giz wrote:How about:

TOR trades: Siakam + Dragic + Boucher

GSW trades: Wiggins + Wiseman + Kuminga + Moody + 2023 1st

Dragic would actually be pretty nice there.

Steph, Dragic
Klay, Poole
Porter, Iguodala, JTA
Siakam, Dray, Bjelica
Boucher, Looney, Dray

Absolutely mortgaging the future...but it would be fun for a year...

No it wouldn't. That sucks.

Coxy · Post #258 » by **Coxy** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:00 am

Rondo would be an amazing vet min addition.

SpreeS · Post #259 » by **SpreeS** » Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:24 am

Could it work?

Rondo for Chiozza, Lee, Mulder, Payton? Memphis cleans Rondo salary from their book with all these non guaranteed contracts.

10giz · Post #260 » by **10giz** » Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:19 am

Coxy wrote:
Arlo wrote:
Brick Layer wrote:Direct from the Raptors board:

Steph, Dragic
Klay, Poole
Porter, Iguodala, JTA
Siakam, Dray, Bjelica
Boucher, Looney, Dray

Absolutely mortgaging the future...but it would be fun for a year...

No it wouldn't. That sucks.

If I can touch on this - I'm not one for trade suggestions typically as I actually understand the amount of nuance, detail and variables that go into something like this.

Admittedly, this trade was a pipe dream for me personally, simply for the idea of being able to rebuild and add 5 1st round picks (Barnes, Precious, Wiseman, Kuminga, Moody) in one offseason whereas many teams take 3-5+ years to do so.

I absolutely loved both picks the Warriors made. Love love love.

My mindset here is by the time Kuminga and Moody are ready to not only be consistent rotation players, but be able to contribute in the playoffs, it may take some time. (Regardless of how good they look right now - which is pretty **** good.)

With the big 3's ages being at 33, 31 and 31 respectively, I think it's fair to say that the next 3 years are the ultimate window. I wouldn't be surprised if it extends beyond that but may be difficult with salaries.

To me, I felt Dragic would be a great addition to the team that adds an element that the team doesn't have. Not only that but I feel he would be a perfect player to re-sign for the duration of the contending window as his game is aging well and another veteran ball handler could definitely open things up.

Boucher, although expiring as well, is definitely a useful player especially to a team like GSW. You'll get 13-15 pts, 5-8 rebounds, 2 blocks and 2 threes on great percentages in 22-24 minutes. I'd expect him to be even better there considering the playmakers and spacing around him. He's a great role player that offers key elements at a position you don't usually get them. He'd basically be able to replace 70-80% Wiggins offensive contributions IMO, although the solid perimeter defence would be traded for some elite blocking and much better spacing.

Lastly would be Siakam who, to me, is the perfect all-star level player to add to this team. On GS without needing to be an offensive focus, he would absolutely thrive to degree not yet seen IMO. His speed, fluidity and movement is unlike most if any big in the league and on no team would it fit better than GS where we already have some of the best movement and passing (potentially ever). He's already a champion and a character player who most importantly can help extend this window for the Warriors.

In the end this won't happen as the Raptors, even without Siakam, will never be bad enough to "tank". I'm still holding out hope that perhaps once Pascal is back and healthy, there will be potential for a deal to be made.

If I was a GSW fan, I'd want to stand pat and actually be able to develop some players either to trade away for stars next year or in two, or simply for the long term. Unfortunately I don't think that's gonna happen.

To the gentleman who said this sucks, well, care to explain why?