Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[5paceman]

Are we sure Simmons is better then Wiggins next year? GS needs to win now… not sure they can wait 2-3 years and hope Simmons learns to shoot or drive. At least Wiggins can shoot the ball…. There are likely much better win now traded if the Warriors want to trade some of their young assets.

This warriors fan wouldn't do Simmons for Wiggins strait across.

And I don't hate Simmons. I think he could develop a shot eventually.

[Tomjas]

Are we sure Simmons is better then Wiggins next year? GS needs to win now… not sure they can wait 2-3 years and hope Simmons learns to shoot or drive. At least Wiggins can shoot the ball…. There are likely much better win now traded if the Warriors want to trade some of their young assets.

This warriors fan wouldn't do Simmons for Wiggins strait across.

And I don't hate Simmons. I think he could develop a shot eventually.

I am not a Wiggins hater but Simmons is levels above

[5paceman]

Are we sure Simmons is better then Wiggins next year? GS needs to win now… not sure they can wait 2-3 years and hope Simmons learns to shoot or drive. At least Wiggins can shoot the ball…. There are likely much better win now traded if the Warriors want to trade some of their young assets.

This warriors fan wouldn't do Simmons for Wiggins strait across.

And I don't hate Simmons. I think he could develop a shot eventually.

I am not a Wiggins hater but Simmons is levels above

Stats and eye test and big weaknesses tell me different. For the right team Simmons is a big difference maker. I think right now he needs to play point-forward to be very productive.

[LAL1947]

Are we sure Simmons is better then Wiggins next year?

You might have had a little something there, if Wiggins had at least helped GSW get to the playoffs last season. Not a lot, but at least it would have been something.

[Pumpkin17]

I think there is actually a huge disconnection at this point between Warriors fans and their FO, cause this Simmons to GS rumor isn't fading still.

I guess Myers Is working to something like Wiggins+Wiseman for Ben while Morey wants also Kuminga, Moody and picks.

Honestly, even if I wouldn't trade at all for Ben cause It is too high of a cost for GS given how bad the fit is, I can see Myers improving his offer to Wiggins, Wiseman and a first, with Kuminga and Moody off the table. However, in that case Phila can probably get far better offers from other teams.

[WAKEANT]

The kind of trade assets you want the Warriors to give up should yield at the very least a very strong second option.

Ben Simmons is a very strong second option.
I'd love to see him join the Mavericks so Luka can finally have a top level partner.

Also, don't forget the value of potential tax savings that the 76ers will be helping GSW obtain with this trade.
That is HUGE... and I'm not seeing it factored in anywhere.

GSW is not shopping for tax savings... a player's on court performance is what GSW values & a player's willingness to play their style of BB... GSW already turned down these types of offers from Philly

[LAL1947]

The kind of trade assets you want the Warriors to give up should yield at the very least a very strong second option.

Ben Simmons is a very strong second option.
I'd love to see him join the Mavericks so Luka can finally have a top level partner.

Also, don't forget the value of potential tax savings that the 76ers will be helping GSW obtain with this trade.
That is HUGE... and I'm not seeing it factored in anywhere.

GSW is not shopping for tax savings... a player's on court performance is what GSW values & a player's willingness to play their style of BB... GSW already turned down these types of offers from Philly

I hear ya. It's not like you're asking for a lot. GSW simply wants to maximize Curry/Klay/Dray's last years with a 4th star, that's it. Not a 2nd or a 3rd... only a 4th one. This 4th star needs to fit perfectly with the other 3 you already have cos it's the GSW way. And you shouldn't have to give up many picks or young assets... because you rehabbed Wiggins temporarily from being junk and can use him instead to make the $$ match. Plus you need to stay in contention when Curry/Klay/Dray are done. That the proposed deal also gives GSW massive tax savings is merely an unintentional by-product. That darn Morey is being difficult for no good reason.

[Knicks365247]

Ben Simmons is a very strong second option.
I'd love to see him join the Mavericks so Luka can finally have a top level partner.

Also, don't forget the value of potential tax savings that the 76ers will be helping GSW obtain with this trade.
That is HUGE... and I'm not seeing it factored in anywhere.

GSW is not shopping for tax savings... a player's on court performance is what GSW values & a player's willingness to play their style of BB... GSW already turned down these types of offers from Philly

I hear ya. It's not like you're asking for a lot. GSW simply wants to maximize Curry/Klay/Dray's last years with a 4th star, that's it. Not a 2nd or a 3rd... only a 4th one. This 4th star needs to fit perfectly with the other 3 you already have cos it's the GSW way. And you shouldn't have to give up many picks or young assets... because you rehabbed Wiggins temporarily from being junk and can use him instead to make the $$ match. That the proposed deal also gives GSW massive tax savings is merely an unintentional by-product. That darn Morey is being difficult for no good reason.

Morey is too busy playing 4D Chess to see a good trade offer right in front of him!

[wraith985]

Very telling that no Warriors fan is in here stumping for Simmons, just fans of other teams convinced they know better.

We all watched the playoffs and we all heard the comments from his teammates and coaches, so don't act like you're getting superstar value for Simmons. For Wiggins, Kuminga, Wiseman, AND more picks, I'll happily let Simmons stay in Philadelphia until Embiid shanks him out of pure frustration. See where his trade value is at after that.

[Commodor]

OP is essentially offering the same deal PHI offered earlier this offseason to GSW, less Moody and a 1st way down the line.

Considering GSW thought that offer was a joke I do not see them being remotely interested in this one.

[Crives]

Are we sure Simmons is better then Wiggins next year?

Yes.

You sure? I am referencing next year, not 3-4 years down the line. Is Simmons defense worth playing 4 vs 5 on offense? I think there is a real argument to be made that Warriors are better next year with Wiggins. And that is without even considering other assets GS would need to trade.

[basketballwacko2]

Ben Simmons for Andrew Wiggins, James Wiseman, the draft rights to Jonathan Kuminga and a top 20 protected 2022 Golden State Warriors First Round Draft Pick (becomes 2027 and 2028 second round picks if not conveyed)

The Warriors get the best player they can get for that package right now. If they get creative, they could have a really elite defensive team. Not to mention the savings given the Warriors tax situation is extraordinary.

The 76ers get the most value they can get for Simmons right now. The immediate downgrade from Simmons to Wiggins loses some of it's hit in that Wiggins is a better fit and Wiseman would likely get forwarded for the best fitting veteran possible (not sure off the top of my head who a good fit for this is?). Kuminga is someone you work along slowly and maintain as a valuable trade chip if he shows flashes in the play he does get.

Simmons will get traded if a trade makes sense this does not make sense. Seems to me there is a desperation on the part of some to see him dealt.

[GutUNC]

An efficient 16 PPG with elite distribution is now the equivalent of playing 4v5 on offense and those things plus DPOY-level defense is now a lesser contribution then Andrew Wiggins.

Never thought I'd long for a 2nd iteration of the merged Ben Simmons thread but...here we are.

[Crives]

An efficient 16 PPG with elite distribution is now the equivalent of playing 4v5 on offense and those things plus DPOY-level defense is now a lesser contribution then Andrew Wiggins.

Never thought I'd long for a 2nd iteration of the merged Ben Simmons thread but...here we are.

Scared of driving. Scared of shooting. That’s what I saw in the playoffs, and that is like playing 4-5 on offense…. Unless you have a very specific team and run Ben as your full time center (which Warriors do not have)

[GutUNC]

An efficient 16 PPG with elite distribution is now the equivalent of playing 4v5 on offense and those things plus DPOY-level defense is now a lesser contribution then Andrew Wiggins.

Never thought I'd long for a 2nd iteration of the merged Ben Simmons thread but...here we are.

Scared of driving. Scared of shooting. That’s what I saw in the playoffs, and that is like playing 4-5 on offense…. Unless you have a very specific team and run Ben as your full time center (which Warriors do not have)

Though he was a +20-25 player in the Atlanta series, yes, he clearly was bad offensively. No one disputes this. The problem is you've chosen to cite only those 2 weeks for his valuation rather then the entirety of his 4-year career with that included.

[Brick Layer]

An efficient 16 PPG with elite distribution is now the equivalent of playing 4v5 on offense and those things plus DPOY-level defense is now a lesser contribution then Andrew Wiggins.

Never thought I'd long for a 2nd iteration of the merged Ben Simmons thread but...here we are.

Scared of driving. Scared of shooting. That’s what I saw in the playoffs, and that is like playing 4-5 on offense…. Unless you have a very specific team and run Ben as your full time center (which Warriors do not have)

Though he was a +20-25 player in the Atlanta series, yes, he clearly was bad offensively. No one disputes this. The problem is you've chosen to cite only those 2 weeks for his valuation rather then the entirety of his 4-year career with that included.

The Warriors are trying to contend for an NBA title. If a player, any player regardless of whether its Ben Simmons or someone else cannot step up both offensively and defensively when all the chips are on the table during the playoffs, then that player has no value to the Warriors. The bottom line is the playoffs is the time players either put out or get out period.

[Coxy]

This is an easy no for GS.

[BayWarrior]

Huge gap between what GSW posters think and other team fans think. Comes down to Wiggins is what GS needs offensively and Defensively. Because Simmons is a special player a trade for him even with fit being an issue, I think most would be willing to take that chance but not for much more than Wiggins and a 1st. That is and should be unacceptable to the 76ers which is why I don’t see the Gap closing from either side enough for a deal to be made.

[nate33]

Simmons is just such a horrible fit that it would be a mistake for GS to pay anywhere near full price for him. Philly obviously wouldn't be interested offer that GS should be limited to. Simmons should be dealt to a team that doesn't already have Draymond Green filling his role.

Couldn't Simmons check a lot of the boxes from the Shaun Livingston and Andre Iguodala roles, but just much, much better?

No.

First of all, Iguadola was at least a halfway competent 3-point shooter whereas Simmons won't even be guarded outside of 15 feet. Secondly, Draymond was a better shooter then than now, so the loss of shooting in the Iggy/Livingston spot will hurt more. And finally, the NBA has evolved so that shooting is even more important than it was in the Iggy/Livingston era.

I just don't think Simmons to Golden State makes any sense at all. It would only be helpful if Draymond was sent elsewhere, but Draymond isn't nearly as useful of a player if he is not paired with Curry - so nobody else will really value him on that contract.

One can argue that Golden State has the assets to get a guy like Simmons, but they don't have the need for Simmons, and Philly doesn't have the need for Wiseman. For a trade to go down, at least 2 other teams will have to be involved.

[kuclas]

If wiggins were expiring I'd take a chance on him but he's still got 2 years left.

The real issue is Sixers lose their point guard. They need to get a
1. replacement point guard
2. Still looking for a 3 level iso scorer in crunch time

So how exactly does this trade help sixers? It actually makes them worst.

In case anyone hasn't seen Draymond play offense. While he's still a very crafty defender, Draymond's offensive skill is in complete erosion. He can't finish a the rim, he bricks shot after shot. While Simmons had a mental meltdown, he's an absolute upgrade from Draymond if he comes to Golden State. It's just the truth but I don't know how the two of them can co exist on the same floor. Simmons plus Dwight Howard were a mess pairing last season.