Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[Mob Byers]

No, the title doesn't come close to how our FO is thinking and this is a horse that's been beaten into blood pudding

[VeritasTri]

Am I wrong for saying this feels like a Tobias Harris trade package?

I love Slo-mo. Melton is one of the most underrated players in the game. Clarke has upside. Pat Bev is solid. But I just can't see this being the trade that keeps Joel in Philadelphia long term or moves us that much closer to winning a championship.

Something Philly fans might have to start accepting is they are going to take a downgrade in talent and arent going to improve their team by trading Simmons.

Philly wants "win now" players, but any team trading for Simmons is doing so with the notion of winning now and wont want to hamper that by giving away pieces that help them win now for Simmons. They will only make that kind of deal if they are clearly coming out ahead, which means Philly is clearly coming out behind. While Philly doesnt want to hamper their ability to win now by downgrading Simmons they may have no choice. He clearly doesnt want to be there and every GM and fan knows it. You can say "well we just wont trade him then!" but that kind of toxic environment is worse than trading for a loss, and then you are just faced with the same situation with even lower value coming back.

Morey should have learned from the wolves mistake during the Butler saga. If you have a star player who doesnt want to be there you make a deal sooner rather than later. The longer you wait the fewer suitors you have and fewer resources available to be moved. Pre-draft there was a lot of flexibility, teams had open roster spots, open salary, draft picks ready to be cashed etc. Now teams already acted and signed players, drafted guys, and started to commit to their team for next season. The longer this drags on the more likely they end up with a Saric/Covington type return.

[stormi]

Am I wrong for saying this feels like a Tobias Harris trade package?

I love Slo-mo. Melton is one of the most underrated players in the game. Clarke has upside. Pat Bev is solid. But I just can't see this being the trade that keeps Joel in Philadelphia long term or moves us that much closer to winning a championship.

Something Philly fans might have to start accepting is they are going to take a downgrade in talent and arent going to improve their team by trading Simmons.

Not happening sorry. If they were going to give him away they would have already.

I'm sure the organization is ugly crying having two franchise players that have never played below a 50 win pace together.

If they can't find adequate value on Simmons they'll redirect and pursue other avenues to improve the roster. i.e: acquiring a shot creator likely for the price of Tobias Harris. The goal is winning a championship. Moving Simmons and getting worse just isn't a scenario on those cards.

[VeritasTri]

Am I wrong for saying this feels like a Tobias Harris trade package?

I love Slo-mo. Melton is one of the most underrated players in the game. Clarke has upside. Pat Bev is solid. But I just can't see this being the trade that keeps Joel in Philadelphia long term or moves us that much closer to winning a championship.

Something Philly fans might have to start accepting is they are going to take a downgrade in talent and arent going to improve their team by trading Simmons.

Not happening sorry. If they were going to give him away they would have already.

I'm sure the organization is ugly crying having two franchise players that have never played below a 50 win pace together.

If they can't find adequate value on Simmons they'll redirect and pursue other avenues to improve the roster. i.e: acquiring a shot creator likely for the price of Tobias Harris. The goal is winning a championship. Moving Simmons and getting worse just isn't a scenario on those cards.

You seem to just ignore the fact that Simmons doesnt want to be there and all likelihood has already demanded a trade. Stomping your foot and saying "we just wont trade him!" sounds great and all, but its not reality. Jimmy Butler put in a private trade demand and Thibs ignored it for months and didnt act because he wanted to win and was never going to get back equal value in terms of helping him win now. It wasnt until training camp rolled around and he still wasnt moved that he started making trouble, which subsequently tanked his value more.

Right now we are in phase 1, trade demanded, GM grasping to fantasy rather than accepting reality. In a month we will have moved on to phase 2, player starts getting annoyed he hasnt been moved and starts making more noise.

I was only trying to help you mentally prepare yourself for the role player sampler platter you are going to be getting back for Simmons. Truth isnt always nice.

[Warriorfan]

Value of Simmons will be going down as this draws out. Wiggins if he contributes to winning and contract left gets shorter his value goes up.

If Kuminga, Wiseman Moody contribute sooner their value goes up.

Way too much for GS to send

[stormi]

Something Philly fans might have to start accepting is they are going to take a downgrade in talent and arent going to improve their team by trading Simmons.

Not happening sorry. If they were going to give him away they would have already.

I'm sure the organization is ugly crying having two franchise players that have never played below a 50 win pace together.

If they can't find adequate value on Simmons they'll redirect and pursue other avenues to improve the roster. i.e: acquiring a shot creator likely for the price of Tobias Harris. The goal is winning a championship. Moving Simmons and getting worse just isn't a scenario on those cards.

You seem to just ignore the fact that Simmons doesnt want to be there and all likelihood has already demanded a trade. Stomping your foot and saying "we just wont trade him!" sounds great and all, but its not reality. Jimmy Butler put in a private trade demand and Thibs ignored it for months and didnt act because he wanted to win and was never going to get back equal value in terms of helping him win now. It wasnt until training camp rolled around and he still wasnt moved that he started making trouble, which subsequently tanked his value more.

Right now we are in phase 1, trade demanded, GM grasping to fantasy rather than accepting reality. In a month we will have moved on to phase 2, player starts getting annoyed he hasnt been moved and starts making more noise.

I was only trying to help you mentally prepare yourself for the role player sampler platter you are going to be getting back for Simmons. Truth isnt always nice.

Until an official trade request comes out I'm not buying the tabloid style headlines that have been debunked by Sixers players and staff continually all summer (Danny Green, Seth Curry, Tyrese Maxey, Alex Subers). Sorry.

The Sixers won't be giving away Ben Simmons. And he's instrumental to them winning a lot of games like he has been since he stepped into the league.

[LAL1947]

I think GSW will start getting desperate after the Lakers smack them on opening night.
And it will increase with every subsequent loss to the many contenders: Nets, Denver, Suns, Bucks, etc.
Reaching a crescendo when the losses continue even with Klay back in the starting 5.
Then all this posturing over the worth of Wiggins can finally come to a deserved end, lol.
Have to wait and see if Bob is willing to waste another year of Steph, Klay and Dray, having lost 2 already.

[giannis and 1]

Simmons makes the most sense on Minnesota or Memphis, imo.

[Foshan]

Value of Simmons will be going down as this draws out. Wiggins if he contributes to winning and contract left gets shorter his value goes up.

If Kuminga, Wiseman Moody contribute sooner their value goes up.

Way too much for GS to send

Wow. So many guaranteed positive “if” outcomes for your team, and such guaranteed negative outcome for the other team. You should consider a career in politics.

“If Wiggins contributes to winning and his contract gets shorter”

Well, at least you are guaranteed his contract will get shorter, that’s probably all that comes out of that statement

[Warriorfan]

Value of Simmons will be going down as this draws out. Wiggins if he contributes to winning and contract left gets shorter his value goes up.

If Kuminga, Wiseman Moody contribute sooner their value goes up.

Way too much for GS to send

Wow. So many guaranteed positive “if” outcomes for your team, and such guaranteed negative outcome for the other team. You should consider a career in politics.

“If Wiggins contributes to winning and his contract gets shorter”

Well, at least you are guaranteed his contract will get shorter, that’s probably all that comes out of that statement

Did have a career in politics.

No guarantees.


Warriors have hit on their lottery picks with player development.

There is consensus they got value in their picks.

[radtech]

Why do the Dubs want this guy? Dubs want to win a championship, it means long playoff runs and many tight games.

Past playoffs proved he will disappear. Then the ridiculous cost of acquiring him. He is a playoff loser but a regular season hero.

[clippertown]

I just don’t understand why GSW wants Simmons. You can’t play both Draymond and Simmons at the same time (ever) and let’s face it, no other team wants Draymond. Plus, Curry is the best ball handler in the league - why take the ball out of his hands? What role would Ben even play? At least Wiggins has a defined role and is getting better and causes less headaches. Ben is the better player but Wiggins is the better fit. Plus they pay more tax and lose their young center. Philly loses a distributor and replaces him with yet another SF and yet another Center. Makes no sense for either side.

I still think Philly should trade Ben to the Clippers. They have a good mix of expiring assets (Ibaka / Bledsoe) and young talent (Kennard, Mann, Johnson, Boston Jr, Preston and Winslow). They also have some solid players like Reggie, Zubac and Morris Sr. Philly can take what they want including a 2028 unprotected pick and a couple of seconds and a new beach house for each of the owners care of Ballmer. Most importantly, Philly gets out of the Simmons situation with Ben happy (which helps long term with FA).

[gambitx777]

I can't see Steph and clay wanting anything to do with Simmons and his drama. Also Steph and clay see happy to play with the young guys, green has no probably being the elder hard ass either. I don't see them trading for a project , and that's what Simmons is 5 years into his NBA career. A project. If they blow all their young guys on someone it's gonna be a Beal, or dame, or jimmy Butler, someone of that ilk not Simmons.

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[VDT]

All these young player do nothing for the Sixers who are trying to win now. Teams that are trying to become better right now are not good trade partners with the Sixers imo.

[jbent87]

Are we sure Simmons is better then Wiggins next year? GS needs to win now… not sure they can wait 2-3 years and hope Simmons learns to shoot or drive. At least Wiggins can shoot the ball…. There are likely much better win now traded if the Warriors want to trade some of their young assets.

I mean, GSW also needs to get Steph, Klay and Draymond through another regular season to avoid a Lakers/Suns-like first round matchup.

Simmons, despite his postseason flaws/inefficiencies, is the best guy available at the moment to help them do that. Then with some better coaching maybe he isn't as exposed on this GSW in the playoffs as he was here.

Watch on YouTube

[jbent87]

All these young player do nothing for the Sixers who are trying to win now. Teams that are trying to become better right now are not good trade partners with the Sixers imo.

now ask yourself if those young players do nothing to help the Sixers try to win now, what are they doing to help the Warriors? They aren't.

Also is everyone this naive continuing with the "I don't get why GSW wants to add Ben to Draymond" responses? Green will be sold to the highest bidder within a year from the day that Simmons arrives. That's just good business to replace one older similiar skillset player with a younger one. Usually these are economic moves as well, which this one isn't since Ben already has that second contract.

Myers knows exactly what he's doing poking around with this guy trying to snag him while his value is the lowest. Good for Morey saying FU, I'm not gift wrapping you your Draymond successor to get the Splash Bros their looks. Unless you're sending a bunch of assets, as I'm also trying to win now.

[NW]

People still on the “Draymond and Ben Simmons can’t play together” kick? You’re pairing them with two of the best shooters of all time, who defenses can’t leave, and likely a third shooter as well.
At that point, you got Simmons one on one going to the hoop. He’s either scoring or getting fouled. At that point, his free throw shooting becomes far more important than him shooting 3s.
You use Green’s man to double and you got Dray going to the basket untouched unless the D rotates off one of the best shooters ever.
I think they’ll figure it out.

Whether or not a deal happens at this point is just a game of chicken. Who blinks first? Morey on the cost? Klutch and Simmons on how uncomfortable they’re willing to get to get out of Philly? Myers and GS (or any other team) on how much they’re willing to offer?

Philly fans can scream up and down that Morey won’t blink just as other teams fans can do the same and say he will before their team’s management does.
Truth is none of us here will likely know until closer to training camp when all parties start really putting their cards on the table.

[Xman]

I have been busy for a while and have missed most of the Simmons drama. Seems like he has crashed his value hard but Minny still want him bad. Leaving picks open for discussion - but trying to find play combos that might work.

Minny seems desperate to get Simmons. So, I guess a few picks would be outgoing since the talent they could send would be minimal. Per rumor, PBeve would move as part of the deal due to salary. I doubt they trade Edwards - but if so then the deal would probably already be done.

Minn - sends PBev, Beasley, picks - Gets Simmons
picks = 2022 and 2024 top 4 protected pick swaps, 2023 and 2025 first with top 4 protection, three 2nds in 2022. [maybe less if Simmons value is less - not sure where this would be].
Possible addon - Could try to get Harrel or another forward from WAS for a couple of lower salaries or as could fit into deal.

PHI sends - Simmons; gets Beasley, Bertans (or Kuzma maybe), picks

WAS sends Bertans (maybe Kuzma); gets PBev, three 2nds in 2022.


Minny pays the price and gets its man while keeping its trio of Edwards/KAT/DaR.
PHI adds good shooting wings - Beasley and Bertans would be deadly off of Embiid.
WAS dumps a forward it has to spare and gets a little veteran help at pg - that is expiring. WAS can use the 2nds since it has traded theirs away. The salary relief will be nice also.

[NW]

All these young player do nothing for the Sixers who are trying to win now. Teams that are trying to become better right now are not good trade partners with the Sixers imo.

now ask yourself if those young players do nothing to help the Sixers try to win now, what are they doing to help the Warriors? They aren't.

Also is everyone this naive continuing with the "I don't get why GSW wants to add Ben to Draymond" responses? Green will be sold to the highest bidder within a year from the day that Simmons arrives. That's just good business to replace one older similiar skillset player with a younger one. Usually these are economic moves as well, which this one isn't since Ben already has that second contract.

Myers knows exactly what he's doing poking around with this guy trying to snag him while his value is the lowest. Good for Morey saying FU, I'm not gift wrapping you your Draymond successor to get the Splash Bros their looks. Unless you're sending a bunch of assets, as I'm also trying to win now.

They’re not trading Draymond and messing with that history of the big 3. They’re also not giving up the farm for Simmons whose value is at a low. They’ll wait like every other team, except Minnesota alledgedly, and see how tight things get in Philly around training camp time and what the cost becomes then

[VDT]

There is nothing there for the Sixers , Bertans is overpaid. The Sixers are not just tring to help everyone else get better, they are also trying to win.