Trade Ideas (Part III)

[Stillwater]

I'd love to see if the Cavs can make a deal for JT Thor from CHA.with Bridges for LNJ. Thor is a Freak athlete with lateral mobility and explosive hops developing offensive skill set elite length etc etc Could be used in a Jerami Grant type 3-4 role defensively at first and as a stretch 4 or big 3. Also can be used as a 3rd center . Bridges can be the big sf the Cavs need and Nance helps CHA compete sooner.
Granted I have no interest in moving Nance nor do I think they will, but I think they have to consider it after drafting Mobley
and a deal like this even if Bridges leaves or they reflip him makes some sense

[LivingLegend]

I'd love to see if the Cavs can make a deal for JT Thor from CHA.with Bridges for LNJ. Thor is a Freak athlete with lateral mobility and explosive hops developing offensive skill set elite length etc etc Could be used in a Jerami Grant type 3-4 role defensively at first and as a stretch 4 or big 3. Also can be used as a 3rd center . Bridges can be the big sf the Cavs need and Nance helps CHA compete sooner.
Granted I have no interest in moving Nance nor do I think they will, but I think they have to consider it after drafting Mobley
and a deal like this even if Bridges leaves or they reflip him makes some sense

Your going to have to settle for Svi Mykhailiuk for 1/5M and call it a offseason. Though I dont know how much better he is than Dotson. Ive officially given up hope that the Cavs are going to make any sort of deal for a player that will actually make a difference.

Strap in your seatbelt and we are going to go 100mph trying to break that 30-Win barrier on sheer hope of player development.

[Harper4Ferry?]

If Memphis wanted to give us Oturu for some sort of least favorable 2nd rounder swap I'd probably do it.

[Stillwater]

I'd love to see if the Cavs can make a deal for JT Thor from CHA.with Bridges for LNJ. Thor is a Freak athlete with lateral mobility and explosive hops developing offensive skill set elite length etc etc Could be used in a Jerami Grant type 3-4 role defensively at first and as a stretch 4 or big 3. Also can be used as a 3rd center . Bridges can be the big sf the Cavs need and Nance helps CHA compete sooner.
Granted I have no interest in moving Nance nor do I think they will, but I think they have to consider it after drafting Mobley
and a deal like this even if Bridges leaves or they reflip him makes some sense

Your going to have to settle for Svi Mykhailiuk for 1/5M and call it a offseason. Though I dont know how much better he is than Dotson. Ive officially given up hope that the Cavs are going to make any sort of deal for a player that will actually make a difference.

Strap in your seatbelt and we are going to go 100mph trying to break that 30-Win barrier on sheer hope of player development.

I think it wont be nearly as bad as you think record wise even if they make no more significant changes and are healthier. I expect a 7 game increase minimum with 10 more games so 29- 53 at the least if the typical KLove unhealthy and 5 more on top of that if he is healthy so 34 wins seems reasonable despite many East teams getting better on paper this offseason, most of them are just looking for quick fixes where the Cavs have to keep building brick by brick in the small market that plays its rookies over 38 minutes per.

[Stillwater]

If Memphis wanted to give us Oturu for some sort of least favorable 2nd rounder swap I'd probably do it.

why?

[Harper4Ferry?]

because he can probably play? I know we already have a center and maybe a backup center but he's also worth a flyer. Might be able to generate some 2nd unit offense based on his college growth.

[Stillwater]

because he can probably play? I know we already have a center and maybe a backup center but he's also worth a flyer. Might be able to generate some 2nd unit offense based on his college growth.

like the upside but the Cavs are better off keeping IH if they can imo

[LivingLegend]

I'd love to see if the Cavs can make a deal for JT Thor from CHA.with Bridges for LNJ. Thor is a Freak athlete with lateral mobility and explosive hops developing offensive skill set elite length etc etc Could be used in a Jerami Grant type 3-4 role defensively at first and as a stretch 4 or big 3. Also can be used as a 3rd center . Bridges can be the big sf the Cavs need and Nance helps CHA compete sooner.
Granted I have no interest in moving Nance nor do I think they will, but I think they have to consider it after drafting Mobley
and a deal like this even if Bridges leaves or they reflip him makes some sense

Your going to have to settle for Svi Mykhailiuk for 1/5M and call it a offseason. Though I dont know how much better he is than Dotson. Ive officially given up hope that the Cavs are going to make any sort of deal for a player that will actually make a difference.

Strap in your seatbelt and we are going to go 100mph trying to break that 30-Win barrier on sheer hope of player development.

I think it wont be nearly as bad as you think record wise even if they make no more significant changes and are healthier. I expect a 7 game increase minimum with 10 more games so 29- 53 at the least if the typical KLove unhealthy and 5 more on top of that if he is healthy so 34 wins seems reasonable despite many East teams getting better on paper this offseason, most of them are just looking for quick fixes where the Cavs have to keep building brick by brick in the small market that plays its rookies over 38 minutes per.

I mean yeah, but its just...depressing. Adding Allen/Mobley in the past 6 months should help a ton, but from watching summer league--I dont expect Mobley to really have a consistent impact on willing his rookie season. Bigs take a bit longer to develop and find their niche than 3pt shooting guards.

I will say--the Cavs had a rebuild for the past 3 years and have constructed their roster being

PG- Garland
SG- Sexton
SF- Okoro
PF- Mobley
C- Allen

That not a bad job, its just all of these guys need another year or two to develop and I am a impatient person going into year 4 of this.

[toooskies]

Your going to have to settle for Svi Mykhailiuk for 1/5M and call it a offseason. Though I dont know how much better he is than Dotson. Ive officially given up hope that the Cavs are going to make any sort of deal for a player that will actually make a difference.

Strap in your seatbelt and we are going to go 100mph trying to break that 30-Win barrier on sheer hope of player development.

I think it wont be nearly as bad as you think record wise even if they make no more significant changes and are healthier. I expect a 7 game increase minimum with 10 more games so 29- 53 at the least if the typical KLove unhealthy and 5 more on top of that if he is healthy so 34 wins seems reasonable despite many East teams getting better on paper this offseason, most of them are just looking for quick fixes where the Cavs have to keep building brick by brick in the small market that plays its rookies over 38 minutes per.

I mean yeah, but its just...depressing. Adding Allen/Mobley in the past 6 months should help a ton, but from watching summer league--I dont expect Mobley to really have a consistent impact on willing his rookie season. Bigs take a bit longer to develop and find their niche than 3pt shooting guards.

I will say--the Cavs had a rebuild for the past 3 years and have constructed their roster being

PG- Garland
SG- Sexton
SF- Okoro
PF- Mobley
C- Allen

That not a bad job, its just all of these guys need another year or two to develop and I am a impatient person going into year 4 of this.

Honestly you don't see anyone other than generational players compete in year 4 of a rebuild, and even that's unlikely. Michael Jordan's Bulls didn't have a winning season until year 4. Pre-Lebron the Cavs were already deep into their rebuild and still didn't make the playoffs until his year 3. And Collin Sexton is no Jordan or Lebron.

SEA/OKC had 5 years of losing records even when hitting on all their draft picks before Durant/Westbrook/Harden got them to the playoffs. The Process in Philly took 4 years of bottom-of-the-barrel play. And these are the more successful rebuilds of all time-- Minnesota has been in various stages of a rebuild since 2008. Had Lebron not come back the Kyrie rebuild would still probably be going on.

[JonFromVA]

Your going to have to settle for Svi Mykhailiuk for 1/5M and call it a offseason. Though I dont know how much better he is than Dotson. Ive officially given up hope that the Cavs are going to make any sort of deal for a player that will actually make a difference.

Strap in your seatbelt and we are going to go 100mph trying to break that 30-Win barrier on sheer hope of player development.

I think it wont be nearly as bad as you think record wise even if they make no more significant changes and are healthier. I expect a 7 game increase minimum with 10 more games so 29- 53 at the least if the typical KLove unhealthy and 5 more on top of that if he is healthy so 34 wins seems reasonable despite many East teams getting better on paper this offseason, most of them are just looking for quick fixes where the Cavs have to keep building brick by brick in the small market that plays its rookies over 38 minutes per.

I mean yeah, but its just...depressing. Adding Allen/Mobley in the past 6 months should help a ton, but from watching summer league--I dont expect Mobley to really have a consistent impact on willing his rookie season. Bigs take a bit longer to develop and find their niche than 3pt shooting guards.

I will say--the Cavs had a rebuild for the past 3 years and have constructed their roster being

PG- Garland
SG- Sexton
SF- Okoro
PF- Mobley
C- Allen

That not a bad job, its just all of these guys need another year or two to develop and I am a impatient person going into year 4 of this.

Another year or two is being optimistic, IMO.

Assuming our core is actually good ... getting to say the 50-win mark depends whether their talent lines up more with say the Thunder who had Durant, Green, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka all 20, 21, and 23 years old when they won 50 together ... or say the Ben Wallace Detroit Pistons who's youngest player was 22 year old rookie Tayshaun Prince. The rest of their core of Okur, Billups, RIP, and Ben were 23, 24, 26, and 28 when they won 50 together.

Anthony Davis and the Pelicans never got to 50 wins, they did get to 45 in Davis's 3rd season by surrounding him with vets, but then regressed for 2 seasons before winning 48 then regressed again. They basically produced nothing from the draft other than Davis.

[Stillwater]

I think it wont be nearly as bad as you think record wise even if they make no more significant changes and are healthier. I expect a 7 game increase minimum with 10 more games so 29- 53 at the least if the typical KLove unhealthy and 5 more on top of that if he is healthy so 34 wins seems reasonable despite many East teams getting better on paper this offseason, most of them are just looking for quick fixes where the Cavs have to keep building brick by brick in the small market that plays its rookies over 38 minutes per.

I mean yeah, but its just...depressing. Adding Allen/Mobley in the past 6 months should help a ton, but from watching summer league--I dont expect Mobley to really have a consistent impact on willing his rookie season. Bigs take a bit longer to develop and find their niche than 3pt shooting guards.

I will say--the Cavs had a rebuild for the past 3 years and have constructed their roster being

PG- Garland
SG- Sexton
SF- Okoro
PF- Mobley
C- Allen

That not a bad job, its just all of these guys need another year or two to develop and I am a impatient person going into year 4 of this.

Honestly you don't see anyone other than generational players compete in year 4 of a rebuild, and even that's unlikely. Michael Jordan's Bulls didn't have a winning season until year 4. Pre-Lebron the Cavs were already deep into their rebuild and still didn't make the playoffs until his year 3. And Collin Sexton is no Jordan or Lebron.

SEA/OKC had 5 years of losing records even when hitting on all their draft picks before Durant/Westbrook/Harden got them to the playoffs. The Process in Philly took 4 years of bottom-of-the-barrel play. And these are the more successful rebuilds of all time-- Minnesota has been in various stages of a rebuild since 2008. Had Lebron not come back the Kyrie rebuild would still probably be going on.

lol not really Kyrie would have left in FA if Wiggins was the same disappointment he has been in Minnesota Bennett would have become the next Lebron though smh that rebuild was trash heap compared to Sexton and Mobley alone...

[LivingLegend]

I think it wont be nearly as bad as you think record wise even if they make no more significant changes and are healthier. I expect a 7 game increase minimum with 10 more games so 29- 53 at the least if the typical KLove unhealthy and 5 more on top of that if he is healthy so 34 wins seems reasonable despite many East teams getting better on paper this offseason, most of them are just looking for quick fixes where the Cavs have to keep building brick by brick in the small market that plays its rookies over 38 minutes per.

I mean yeah, but its just...depressing. Adding Allen/Mobley in the past 6 months should help a ton, but from watching summer league--I dont expect Mobley to really have a consistent impact on willing his rookie season. Bigs take a bit longer to develop and find their niche than 3pt shooting guards.

I will say--the Cavs had a rebuild for the past 3 years and have constructed their roster being

PG- Garland
SG- Sexton
SF- Okoro
PF- Mobley
C- Allen

That not a bad job, its just all of these guys need another year or two to develop and I am a impatient person going into year 4 of this.

Another year or two is being optimistic, IMO.

Assuming our core is actually good ... getting to say the 50-win mark depends whether their talent lines up more with say the Thunder who had Durant, Green, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka all 20, 21, and 23 years old when they won 50 together ... or say the Ben Wallace Detroit Pistons who's youngest player was 22 year old rookie Tayshaun Prince. The rest of their core of Okur, Billups, RIP, and Ben were 23, 24, 26, and 28 when they won 50 together.

Anthony Davis and the Pelicans never got to 50 wins, they did get to 45 in Davis's 3rd season by surrounding him with vets, but then regressed for 2 seasons before winning 48 then regressed again. They basically produced nothing from the draft other than Davis.

So we are basically screwed even if the kids do pan out?

Sounds like there are 2 ways to win in the NBA. Acquire a STAR top 10 player or somehow miraculously hit on 4-5 really good players in the top 50.

This is also why Im losing interest in the NBA. In a market like Cleveland, we might never get back to having a good team for 5-10 years who make a bunch of playoff runs. So why pay attention? I love the sport, I hate the league its in.

The Indians showed us you can be extremely competitive for a long time in a small market, the Browns are back in the NFL. It just seems like by the rules of the NBA the Cavs will never be good again unless they hit on a 10x All Star level player in the draft and then you have to pray that player doesnt leave after his rookie contract.

Seems like a uphill battle.

[LivingLegend]

Report from Fedor: Sexton + his camp relize a Max offer is off the table and will likely seek something around 4/100M+

still think its a slight overpay, but whatever.

[JonFromVA]

I mean yeah, but its just...depressing. Adding Allen/Mobley in the past 6 months should help a ton, but from watching summer league--I dont expect Mobley to really have a consistent impact on willing his rookie season. Bigs take a bit longer to develop and find their niche than 3pt shooting guards.

I will say--the Cavs had a rebuild for the past 3 years and have constructed their roster being

PG- Garland
SG- Sexton
SF- Okoro
PF- Mobley
C- Allen

That not a bad job, its just all of these guys need another year or two to develop and I am a impatient person going into year 4 of this.

Another year or two is being optimistic, IMO.

Assuming our core is actually good ... getting to say the 50-win mark depends whether their talent lines up more with say the Thunder who had Durant, Green, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka all 20, 21, and 23 years old when they won 50 together ... or say the Ben Wallace Detroit Pistons who's youngest player was 22 year old rookie Tayshaun Prince. The rest of their core of Okur, Billups, RIP, and Ben were 23, 24, 26, and 28 when they won 50 together.

Anthony Davis and the Pelicans never got to 50 wins, they did get to 45 in Davis's 3rd season by surrounding him with vets, but then regressed for 2 seasons before winning 48 then regressed again. They basically produced nothing from the draft other than Davis.

So we are basically screwed even if the kids do pan out?

Sounds like there are 2 ways to win in the NBA. Acquire a STAR top 10 player or somehow miraculously hit on 4-5 really good players in the top 50.

This is also why Im losing interest in the NBA. In a market like Cleveland, we might never get back to having a good team for 5-10 years who make a bunch of playoff runs. So why pay attention? I love the sport, I hate the league its in.

The Indians showed us you can be extremely competitive for a long time in a small market, the Browns are back in the NFL. It just seems like by the rules of the NBA the Cavs will never be good again unless they hit on a 10x All Star level player in the draft and then you have to pray that player doesnt leave after his rookie contract.

Seems like a uphill battle.

We're hardly screwed, it just that even if all our young players are who we hope they will be, it may take more than 2 or 3 seasons to get to a contender level and it's quite possible that getting there will require swapping some players in/out of what we think is the core now.

Contenders are filled with players closer to their 30's than 20's.

[JonFromVA]

Report from Fedor: Sexton + his camp relize a Max offer is off the table and will likely seek something around 4/100M+

still think its a slight overpay, but whatever.

Sounds like progress at least. The question is, what are the Cavs offering? If the Cavs are offering $20M and they choose to meet in the middle ... that's fine. Little sense going to the mat over a couple million, that rarely ends up being smart.

[Stillwater]

Report from Fedor: Sexton + his camp relize a Max offer is off the table and will likely seek something around 4/100M+

still think its a slight overpay, but whatever.

Sounds like progress at least. The question is, what are the Cavs offering? If the Cavs are offering $20M and they choose to meet in the middle ... that's fine. Little sense going to the mat over a couple million, that rarely ends up being smart.

It really wasn't a report it was an opinion during a podcast stating he "thinks" the negotiations will get rolling more after the break around Labor Day. He said he knows up until now there have only been some break the ice conversations where Altman has spoken to Sextons camp probably to set up their timeline for extension talks. At no time did he suggest he heard anything around 100 million was talked about but he knows they are going to ask for at least that and he did say he thinks there may be a recognition by Collins people that his value around the league is not as high as they think it should be, he also said he thinks for the first time in a couple months he there is a chance a extension gets done that somewhere below the max ...he thinks there is a recognition on Collins part that they are not getting the max, but he also says thats just the "sense that he gets right now". so it is Fedor speculating not reporting facts.

[toooskies]

I mean yeah, but its just...depressing. Adding Allen/Mobley in the past 6 months should help a ton, but from watching summer league--I dont expect Mobley to really have a consistent impact on willing his rookie season. Bigs take a bit longer to develop and find their niche than 3pt shooting guards.

I will say--the Cavs had a rebuild for the past 3 years and have constructed their roster being

PG- Garland
SG- Sexton
SF- Okoro
PF- Mobley
C- Allen

That not a bad job, its just all of these guys need another year or two to develop and I am a impatient person going into year 4 of this.

Another year or two is being optimistic, IMO.

Assuming our core is actually good ... getting to say the 50-win mark depends whether their talent lines up more with say the Thunder who had Durant, Green, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka all 20, 21, and 23 years old when they won 50 together ... or say the Ben Wallace Detroit Pistons who's youngest player was 22 year old rookie Tayshaun Prince. The rest of their core of Okur, Billups, RIP, and Ben were 23, 24, 26, and 28 when they won 50 together.

Anthony Davis and the Pelicans never got to 50 wins, they did get to 45 in Davis's 3rd season by surrounding him with vets, but then regressed for 2 seasons before winning 48 then regressed again. They basically produced nothing from the draft other than Davis.

So we are basically screwed even if the kids do pan out?

Sounds like there are 2 ways to win in the NBA. Acquire a STAR top 10 player or somehow miraculously hit on 4-5 really good players in the top 50.

This is also why Im losing interest in the NBA. In a market like Cleveland, we might never get back to having a good team for 5-10 years who make a bunch of playoff runs. So why pay attention? I love the sport, I hate the league its in.

The Indians showed us you can be extremely competitive for a long time in a small market, the Browns are back in the NFL. It just seems like by the rules of the NBA the Cavs will never be good again unless they hit on a 10x All Star level player in the draft and then you have to pray that player doesnt leave after his rookie contract.

Seems like a uphill battle.

If winning an NBA championship was easy then everybody would do it!

But plenty of small-to-mid markets have been able to build consistently good teams. Most of the good ones have done it without high draft picks-- the high pick players tend to have egos, and those egos lead them to leave town to try to get the championship they "deserve" even after the team has done everything to accommodate them.

The most important thing is to not botch the transition from accumulating assets to winning. The best teams year-over-year accumulate assets while winning so they only start losing if multiple things go wrong, and they bounce back quickly in a year or two.

[Revenged25]

Your going to have to settle for Svi Mykhailiuk for 1/5M and call it a offseason. Though I dont know how much better he is than Dotson. Ive officially given up hope that the Cavs are going to make any sort of deal for a player that will actually make a difference.

Strap in your seatbelt and we are going to go 100mph trying to break that 30-Win barrier on sheer hope of player development.

I think it wont be nearly as bad as you think record wise even if they make no more significant changes and are healthier. I expect a 7 game increase minimum with 10 more games so 29- 53 at the least if the typical KLove unhealthy and 5 more on top of that if he is healthy so 34 wins seems reasonable despite many East teams getting better on paper this offseason, most of them are just looking for quick fixes where the Cavs have to keep building brick by brick in the small market that plays its rookies over 38 minutes per.

I mean yeah, but its just...depressing. Adding Allen/Mobley in the past 6 months should help a ton, but from watching summer league--I dont expect Mobley to really have a consistent impact on willing his rookie season. Bigs take a bit longer to develop and find their niche than 3pt shooting guards.

I will say--the Cavs had a rebuild for the past 3 years and have constructed their roster being

PG- Garland
SG- Sexton
SF- Okoro
PF- Mobley
C- Allen

That not a bad job, its just all of these guys need another year or two to develop and I am a impatient person going into year 4 of this.

If Mobley can just stay be healthy and play very good/great defense then he'll massively help the team in winning. He doesn't need to average 20+ ppg. When the Cavs were at their best last season, it was when Nance + Drummond were healthy and involved so that the defense was able to help spur more offense. Once Nance got hurt and Drummond wasn't motived to play anymore, the team crumbled.

If Mobley's rookie season is him averaging 12/6/5/1.8 while being healthy all year, I'll consider that a win and expect the Cavs to be over 30 wins.

[JonFromVA]

Report from Fedor: Sexton + his camp relize a Max offer is off the table and will likely seek something around 4/100M+

still think its a slight overpay, but whatever.

Sounds like progress at least. The question is, what are the Cavs offering? If the Cavs are offering $20M and they choose to meet in the middle ... that's fine. Little sense going to the mat over a couple million, that rarely ends up being smart.

It really wasn't a report it was an opinion during a podcast stating he "thinks" the negotiations will get rolling more after the break around Labor Day. He said he knows up until now there have only been some break the ice conversations where Altman has spoken to Sextons camp probably to set up their timeline for extension talks. At no time did he suggest he heard anything around 100 million was talked about but he knows they are going to ask for at least that and he did say he thinks there may be a recognition by Collins people that his value around the league is not as high as they think it should be, he also said he thinks for the first time in a couple months he there is a chance a extension gets done that somewhere below the max ...he thinks there is a recognition on Collins part that they are not getting the max, but he also says thats just the "sense that he gets right now". so it is Fedor speculating not reporting facts.

You make an important clarification, but Fedor's "sense" makes a lot of ... umm sense.

Ultimately, Collin may still decide to bet on himself, but I think his agent tried to establish Collin as a max player and failed.

IMO, with 5 young players and 4 of them still looking forward to their big pay day, the Cavs have quite the puzzle to solve. I'd love to see how they're budgeting the salaries for our 5 young players and potentially even more lottery picks arriving in the near future.

The fact our picks are spread out at least gives us some more time to figure out what we're doing.

[JonFromVA]

I think it wont be nearly as bad as you think record wise even if they make no more significant changes and are healthier. I expect a 7 game increase minimum with 10 more games so 29- 53 at the least if the typical KLove unhealthy and 5 more on top of that if he is healthy so 34 wins seems reasonable despite many East teams getting better on paper this offseason, most of them are just looking for quick fixes where the Cavs have to keep building brick by brick in the small market that plays its rookies over 38 minutes per.

I mean yeah, but its just...depressing. Adding Allen/Mobley in the past 6 months should help a ton, but from watching summer league--I dont expect Mobley to really have a consistent impact on willing his rookie season. Bigs take a bit longer to develop and find their niche than 3pt shooting guards.

I will say--the Cavs had a rebuild for the past 3 years and have constructed their roster being

PG- Garland
SG- Sexton
SF- Okoro
PF- Mobley
C- Allen

That not a bad job, its just all of these guys need another year or two to develop and I am a impatient person going into year 4 of this.

If Mobley can just stay be healthy and play very good/great defense then he'll massively help the team in winning. He doesn't need to average 20+ ppg. When the Cavs were at their best last season, it was when Nance + Drummond were healthy and involved so that the defense was able to help spur more offense. Once Nance got hurt and Drummond wasn't motived to play anymore, the team crumbled.

If Mobley's rookie season is him averaging 12/6/5/1.8 while being healthy all year, I'll consider that a win and expect the Cavs to be over 30 wins.

With my Wine & Gold colored glasses on, I'd like to believe that's a possibility. That maybe even Mobley can make one of the All Defensive teams, but history says it's really hard for 19 year old rookies to make an impact on defense.

For instance, Anthony Davis was one of the best defensive prospects ever, but New Orleans was slightly worse defensively (and offensively) with him on the floor .vs. off. Rebounding is also a big part of defense and Mobley is probably not going to be very good at it early on.

That being said, last season was a disaster and I don't it accept where we left off as this team's baseline.