Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

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Re: Getting Simmons to the Wolves Without Giving Up KAT/DLo/Edwards 

Post#161 » by SO_MONEY » Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:32 pm

Scalabrine wrote:
SO_MONEY wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:
He was still an All-Star last year, and one of the best defensive players in the league. The Wolves have enough shooting and scoring to put around him and could really use more defensive minded players, especially ones that are happy to get others involved offensively and still make an impact without actually scoring.


Meh. It is kind of an empty argument to rely on subjective judgments to justify trade value. He is not a contract teams want for a myriad of reasons despite his accolades. The only reason people think he has value is because some of the media acts like he does, the reality is the market is dry and MN is only interested if the cost is low.


Getting an All-Star that fit's nicely without giving up your 3 best players is a pretty low cost move, no?


Pass. I don't think he has the value some think on his contract, with his flaws. I don't think he excites teams if he comes at a cost.
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Re: What team is giving up win-now player to help Wolves/Sixers Simmons deal 

Post#162 » by BlazersBroncos » Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:33 pm

KP isnt a fit next to Joel. Thats DOA.
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Re: Getting Simmons to the Wolves Without Giving Up KAT/DLo/Edwards 

Post#163 » by BlazersBroncos » Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:36 pm

What cost is MIN paying here? A young guy that looks like a nice role player (McDaniels), a gunner (Beasley) and some picks that likely end up in the 20's?

MIN is like PDX, they need to trade for stars. If they can get Simmons locked up for role players and late picks, they do it. Albeit I dont think that foursome has any sort of leadership traits or moxie to make it deep into the POs.
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Re: 5 team trade- Ben to Minny with Blazers/Pacers/Kings 

Post#164 » by BlazersBroncos » Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:36 pm

This is insane value for CJ. Sign me up lol
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Re: "Screw it, this is the best option we each have right now. Let's do it and figure it out later." - Simmons to GSW 

Post#165 » by NW » Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:43 pm

GutUNC wrote:
NW wrote:
GutUNC wrote:
C) He reports back, plays, and some time over the next year a deal opens up that's suitable to all parties.



That is a third option, but again, using history as the guide, which is more likely? Simmons is just going to report back and play the good soldier after all that’s gone down?

Seems to seldom work that way imo.


"All that's gone down" is Simmons played like crap against Atlanta, admitted he played like crap but had Embiid/Doc also gently say he played like crap publicly. I'm not naive enough to eliminate anything as a possibility, but that's hardly some insurmountable mountain that makes me assume that Simmons isn't going to report to camp or try to sabotage the team rather then just playing and rehabbing his value.


“ Embiid/Doc also gently say he played like crap publicly.”
Yeah, not sure Simmons sees it as “gently” saying it if he’s cut communication off with the two of them as reported.
I doubt it comes to the point of not showing up to camp, though that is an option, but I see no reason why Simmons would just play along to ensure Philly gets a good return at this point. It’s likely going to be an unwanted distraction the Sixers can’t afford until he’s dealt
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Re: Simmons to Minny, with Chi 

Post#166 » by SO_MONEY » Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:44 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:
SO_MONEY wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:
You might not like Simmons but it appears that the Wolves management does.


I didn't say I don't like him, he is flawed and overpaid, but I am open to eating his contract in the right circumstances. I would assume wolves management is of the same mindset.


This makes it sound like Minnesota is looking for compensation for taking Simmons, not clearly offering compensation to get him. Which seems completely bat **** crazy, regardless of how many times a Minnesota fan makes it as a 'serious' comment in a different thread.


Few if any teams really, truly want his contract all things being equal. And it is bat **** crazy to think this doesn't affect interest and ultimately the return you get for him. I don't think he would require incentive to take on, I also don't think he get anywhere near the positive value people are promoting.
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Re: 5 team trade- Ben to Minny with Blazers/Pacers/Kings 

Post#167 » by basketballwacko2 » Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:45 pm

Teal25 wrote:76ers trade Ben Simmons/Tobias Harris
Receives CJ/Beverly/Hield
2022 unprotected pick from MIN
2022 Pick swap from Pacers
2023 pick swap with MIN
2024 top 3 protected 1st from MIN

Minny trades Edwards/Beverly/Prince/2022 unprotected 1st/2023 pick swap/2024 top 3 protected 1st

Receives Simmons

Blazers trade CJ/Jones jr
Receives Edwards/Turner/Prince

Pacers trade Turner/2022 pick swap
Receives Bagley/ Jones jr

Kings trade Hield/Bagley
Receives Tobias

Other than the obvious of the T-Wolves and Kings not wanting to help each other out because they’ll be fighting for the last playoff spot and Morey being delusional, I think this works out for all teams. Maybe switch Prince and Beverly and give the Kings some draft capital.



Turrible for Indiana! Just leave us out of this. You list no reasons why Indiana would want bagley and jones for Turner and pick swap. Bagley is a failed draft pick and you want extra value on top of Turner. Sorry but the Pacers are not here to facilitate trades of other teams.
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Re: Minny pushing for Simmons? Maybe WAS helps? 

Post#168 » by Rockazoids » Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:46 pm

LAL1947 wrote:I don't think Minnesota will be able to get Morey to bite without giving up Edwards.
KAT, Simmons and D'lo are supposedly BFFs (?) and on the same time-line too, so perhaps, they should roll with that trio instead of the one they have.

But just last year it was Devin Booker as the 3rd BFF. What happen?
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Re: 5 team trade- Ben to Minny with Blazers/Pacers/Kings 

Post#169 » by cucad8 » Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:47 pm

Seems really bad for Indy, IMO. Way too much value for Portland. So it's a yes from me!
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Re: Simmons to Wolves (with Cavs) 

Post#170 » by Stillwater » Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:48 pm

The Cavs are not going to give Sexton the max rookie extension and then have to give it to Garland next season but the Jaylon Brown 4 107 is pretty likely target for both sides if Sextons camp wants to avoid the RFA nightmare that happened for some this offseason.
The Cavs were never trying to trade Sexton just to get rid of him and although I like Mcdaniels this is laughable value for Sexton let alone LNJ seemingly getting the Cavs nothing in return.
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Re: "Screw it, this is the best option we each have right now. Let's do it and figure it out later." - Simmons to GSW 

Post#171 » by GutUNC » Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:50 pm

NW wrote:
GutUNC wrote:
NW wrote:

That is a third option, but again, using history as the guide, which is more likely? Simmons is just going to report back and play the good soldier after all that’s gone down?

Seems to seldom work that way imo.


"All that's gone down" is Simmons played like crap against Atlanta, admitted he played like crap but had Embiid/Doc also gently say he played like crap publicly. I'm not naive enough to eliminate anything as a possibility, but that's hardly some insurmountable mountain that makes me assume that Simmons isn't going to report to camp or try to sabotage the team rather then just playing and rehabbing his value.


“ Embiid/Doc also gently say he played like crap publicly.”
Yeah, not sure Simmons sees it as “gently” saying it if he’s cut communication off with the two of them as reported.
I doubt it comes to the point of not showing up to camp, though that is an option, but I see no reason why Simmons would just play along to ensure Philly gets a good return at this point. It’s likely going to be an unwanted distraction the Sixers can’t afford until he’s dealt


It was reported that he cut out communication with the team entirely, then 4-5 guys casually said they've talked to him when asked. Which reinforces my original point that maybe we shouldn't treat every unsourced report as gospel.

There's certainly enough smoke to signify a strained relationship and a desire on all sides to move on, but that's quite a ways from the assurances that he's going to hold out, that he's not coming to camp, and/or that the Sixers are just going to have to accept whatever can be wheeled to their front door to get rid of him.
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Re: Simmons to Minny, with Chi 

Post#172 » by pipfan » Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:53 pm

I think Simmons to Minny is very logical, but come on-Simmons still has a lot of value. He is a very good player, and would be a perfect fit for the Wolves. They will have to pay to get him. A core of Towns/Simmons/Edwards/DLo could be really good. Put a 3/D wing at the 3, and that team could grow into something nice
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Re: Simmons to Minny, with Chi 

Post#173 » by Commodor » Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:55 pm

pipfan wrote:Not sure if this is legal or not, but here is my try

Prince and Vanderbilt to Chi, along with a 2nd from Minny

Lauri S&T, Beasley, McDaniels, unprotected 2023/2025 1sts to Philly

Simmons to Minny

Wolves get their guy, go all in
Bulls get some depth for Lauri-we might have to move CWhite somewhere to stay out of the tax
Sixers get Lauri at the 4, Beasley as a great shooter, McDaniels shows a lot of promise and is cheap-plus 2 unprotected 1sts from Minny to play with

Not sure on how the sign and trade rules work


I feel like this breaks S&T rules but interesting overall to say the least.

- With Embiid's extension I have to imagine this pushes them over the tax, which they couldn't be because they'd be hard capped right?
- I thought you could not combine a S&T with players or picks.

As for the trade itself, Lauri w/ Tobias is an awkward fit that they may not want to deal with.
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Re: 5 team trade- Ben to Minny with Blazers/Pacers/Kings 

Post#174 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:57 pm

You….you think Indy should PAY EXTRA to turn Myles Turner into Bagley and DJJ? Really?
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Re: Minny pushing for Simmons? Maybe WAS helps? 

Post#175 » by VeritasTri » Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:02 pm

I cant wait until philly fans are curled up in a corner rocking back and forth muttering "but he was signed for 4 years" as they try to decide between burning the wells fargo center down or seppuku.

The great thing about this situation is eventually a deal will be made and we will no longer have to speculate. Then we can shift to philly fans trying to convince others that the return they got is great, and that nobody REALLY thought they were going to get a star.
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Re: Minny pushing for Simmons? Maybe WAS helps? 

Post#176 » by shangrila » Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:03 pm

I imagine the idea is for the Wolves' picks to be forwarded to the 3rd team for that win now piece, alongside the salary filler. So something like;

Simmons to MIN
Beasley and Grant to PHI
Salary + pick package to DET

Not commenting on whether that's realistic, just that I imagine that's the most likely type of deal. Not the expirings+2nds for whatever crap that would get that I've seen on the board today.
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Re: "Screw it, this is the best option we each have right now. Let's do it and figure it out later." - Simmons to GSW 

Post#177 » by NW » Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:03 pm

GutUNC wrote:
NW wrote:
GutUNC wrote:
"All that's gone down" is Simmons played like crap against Atlanta, admitted he played like crap but had Embiid/Doc also gently say he played like crap publicly. I'm not naive enough to eliminate anything as a possibility, but that's hardly some insurmountable mountain that makes me assume that Simmons isn't going to report to camp or try to sabotage the team rather then just playing and rehabbing his value.


“ Embiid/Doc also gently say he played like crap publicly.”
Yeah, not sure Simmons sees it as “gently” saying it if he’s cut communication off with the two of them as reported.
I doubt it comes to the point of not showing up to camp, though that is an option, but I see no reason why Simmons would just play along to ensure Philly gets a good return at this point. It’s likely going to be an unwanted distraction the Sixers can’t afford until he’s dealt


It was reported that he cut out communication with the team entirely, then 4-5 guys casually said they've talked to him when asked. Which reinforces my original point that maybe we shouldn't treat every unsourced report as gospel.

There's certainly enough smoke to signify a strained relationship and a desire on all sides to move on, but that's quite a ways from the assurances that he's going to hold out, that he's not coming to camp, and/or that the Sixers are just going to have to accept whatever can be wheeled to their front door to get rid of him.


When it was mentioned he cut off communication with the team, it specifically said he wasn’t returning Embid’s calls and directing the FO to deal with Klutch. Because the second tier guys like Tyrone Maxey are like “hey, he talks to me” doesn’t exactly lighten the situation. If he ain’t talking to the star player, head coach or GM, he can talk to Maxey, Bassey or Ashy Larry and it won’t matter.

As far as the holding out of camp. That came from established Klutch mouthpiece Kendrick Perkins. Who do you think he’s speaking for when he goes on national TV and says it while the other Klutch mouthpiece, Rachel Nichols, makes sure he repeats it.

We’ll see if Klutch got it in them to see the threat through, but the current moves don’t scream someone that’s looking to play along with the team management to ensure they get a good return. Like I said before, we’ll all have to see who blinks first
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Re: What team is giving up win-now player to help Wolves/Sixers Simmons deal 

Post#178 » by doctor him » Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:05 pm

SO_MONEY wrote:
Bentley1225 wrote:In light of reports Minny is still pushing for Simmons and Im assuming doesn't want to include Towns/Russell/Edwards in a deal. What team is willing to be involved that a) would give up a 'win-now' player and b) wouldn't want Simmons in return?

Ill assume Beverly/Beasley/McDaniels/2023 1st/2025 1st/2027 1st are assets on the table for Minny to complete a deal.


I think Simmons is overvalued on here, Philly can keep him and deal with all the problems that come with him and his contract.


So many problems that they led to the #1 seed last season and if Green doesn't get hurt they beat Atlanta and get to the ECF and who knows what happens from there.

But I get that Minny shouldn't bring Simmons to town and wreck the momentum they've had going for the last decade. What seed were the T-Pups again last year? Or the year before? Or the year before? Or...

If a deal has to have #1 picks added to it to equalize value then it's not what the Sixers are seeking. We need players now to compete in June 2022. Not June 2028. That's the timeline that should frame any/every deal.
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Re: What team is giving up win-now player to help Wolves/Sixers Simmons deal 

Post#179 » by sca » Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:05 pm

VanVleet? Maybe, depending on what the Raptors would receive. OG? No way, IMO. He’s as close to untouchable as it gets. By untouchable, I don’t mean that he wouldn’t get traded for someone more valuable. Untouchable in the sense that he definitely wouldn’t get traded for lesser players / assets.
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Re: Simmons to Minny, with Chi 

Post#180 » by kuclas » Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:07 pm

pipfan wrote:I think Simmons to Minny is very logical, but come on-Simmons still has a lot of value. He is a very good player, and would be a perfect fit for the Wolves. They will have to pay to get him. A core of Towns/Simmons/Edwards/DLo could be really good. Put a 3/D wing at the 3, and that team could grow into something nice

Towns/Simmons/Edwards/dLo won’t ever be the core. Cause it will take one of them to be in the trade for Simmons. And let’s just say Sixers do not want dlo. And Beasley who’s one step away from being thrown out of nba and the corpse of pat Beverley who lost his starting job and picks isn’t gonna to get the deal done.

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