Trade Talk (Part Seven)

[KGdaBom]

If you speak about me, my friend, then you can just call me a homer. Yes, I value McDaniels more than Siakam. Would I trade McDaniels and TWO OUR 1st round picks for OG Anunoby? The answer is no, because you close one hole and create another. Also two 1st picks and a promising young player is more than MIN and PHI got for Butler. Rosas got two FRPs for RoCo, but RoCo was an elite defender with two full years left of bargain contract, 12 mil per year. For instance, Siakam is paid 34 mil, Anunoby is paid 18 mil. Siakam is clearly overpaid, Anunoby contract is probably close to market value. McDaniels and Reid have bargain contracts. Am I missing something? I see people saying that Siakam was 2nd options behind Kawhi, but TOR had strong group of veterans including Lowry, Gasol, Ibaka. They all shared responsibility in defense, plus FVV had great moments. Last season Siakam failed so hard as main option, so I doubt that he is more than a role player. Anunoby is still developing but I am not sure how much room for improvement he has.

You and your role player BS about Siakam. Yes he is a role player just like LeBron James and Kevin Durant. They all play roles. He is one of the best PFs in the entire league and well worth every penny of his contract.

Common, you are better than this.

You are hopefully better than the role player BS you are saying about Siakam. He's one of the best PFs in the NBA and is exactly what the Wolves need.

[KGdaBom]

If you speak about me, my friend, then you can just call me a homer. Yes, I value McDaniels more than Siakam. Would I trade McDaniels and TWO OUR 1st round picks for OG Anunoby? The answer is no, because you close one hole and create another. Also two 1st picks and a promising young player is more than MIN and PHI got for Butler. Rosas got two FRPs for RoCo, but RoCo was an elite defender with two full years left of bargain contract, 12 mil per year. For instance, Siakam is paid 34 mil, Anunoby is paid 18 mil. Siakam is clearly overpaid, Anunoby contract is probably close to market value. McDaniels and Reid have bargain contracts. Am I missing something? I see people saying that Siakam was 2nd options behind Kawhi, but TOR had strong group of veterans including Lowry, Gasol, Ibaka. They all shared responsibility in defense, plus FVV had great moments. Last season Siakam failed so hard as main option, so I doubt that he is more than a role player. Anunoby is still developing but I am not sure how much room for improvement he has.

You and your role player BS about Siakam. Yes he is a role player just like LeBron James and Kevin Durant. They all play roles. He is one of the best PFs in the entire league and well worth every penny of his contract.

I have to disagree with this to a point. Siakam is a solid PF, probably 10-15 in the league for sure, but one of the best means top 5, and he isn't that. His last two seasons have also not been worth his contract. Would I take him for the right package? Absolutely!! Would I give the same for him as I would for Simmons? No, not even close

Which would you give more for? Simmons or Siakam. I would definitely prefer Siakam. He's top 10 for sure and I would have to do some evaluating to figure out if he's top 5. Simmons I wouldn't mind getting him either.

[SO_MONEY]

You and your role player BS about Siakam. Yes he is a role player just like LeBron James and Kevin Durant. They all play roles. He is one of the best PFs in the entire league and well worth every penny of his contract.

I have to disagree with this to a point. Siakam is a solid PF, probably 10-15 in the league for sure, but one of the best means top 5, and he isn't that. His last two seasons have also not been worth his contract. Would I take him for the right package? Absolutely!! Would I give the same for him as I would for Simmons? No, not even close

Which would you give more for? Simmons or Siakam. I would definitely prefer Siakam. He's top 10 for sure and I would have to do some evaluating to figure out if he's top 5. Simmons I wouldn't mind getting him either.

I would say the two are worth roughly the same offer, Siakam I like a tad better.

[winforlose]

I have to disagree with this to a point. Siakam is a solid PF, probably 10-15 in the league for sure, but one of the best means top 5, and he isn't that. His last two seasons have also not been worth his contract. Would I take him for the right package? Absolutely!! Would I give the same for him as I would for Simmons? No, not even close

Which would you give more for? Simmons or Siakam. I would definitely prefer Siakam. He's top 10 for sure and I would have to do some evaluating to figure out if he's top 5. Simmons I wouldn't mind getting him either.

I would say the two are worth roughly the same offer, Siakam I like a tad better.

Simmons lack of 3 point shooting is a bad fit for then offense we are trying to build. Siakam is an average 3 point shooter who had a bad season. Siakam would be better than Simmons but I would prefer not spending crazy money on guys who are over paid. It kinda feels like Wiggins 2.0.

[Baseline81]

Read on Twitter

[Nick K]

MIN GETS: Chris Bouchard + TOR 2023 2nd
TOR GETS: Naz Reid, Jake Layman, Josh Okogie

MIN gets their starting PF on a reasonable contract ($7 mil, expiring). Bouchard is 28, but we would get his Bird rights. He can defend, and he can shoot three’s a bit. I worry that TOR players will decline once out of their great organization, but perhaps Chris Finch was part of his success in TOR? The deal also clears an additional $2.8 mil under the lux and a couple roster spots, and maybe finding minutes for Bolmaro and Nowell.

Adding the other players helps us cash in on the cheapness of his deal. Don’t forget, his second cheap year is an illusion. MIN, or whoever he is traded to, is not going to use it and let him become a frustrated UFA that got underpaid. His team will renounce the 2022-23 season and keep him home on a new deal as an RFA.

Why for TOR? Naz is a nice fit as their new starting C. Bouchard would remain a bench player behind Siakim. Layman is salary filler, but Okogie can play, and would be a good mentor for Precious Achiuwa.

JFYI 61% of TOR fans would trade Boucher for assets.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2116280

Will Jake Layman, Josh Okogie, two 2nd round picks be enough for Boucher?

KAT/Reid/Boucher + Knight
Boucher/Vando/McDaniels
McDaniels/Prince/Edwards
Edwards/Beasley/Nowell
DLo/Beverly/Bolmaro + Wright

I really like Chris Boucher but he's only 6'9" 205 lb. We have that in McD and Vando. We need some bulk down there that won't get pushed around. Derek Favors? Millsap? Turner? I'd love Boucher if he went 230-240.

[shangrila]

Read on Twitter

What a nothing statement

[theGreatRC]

Unpopular opinion; I would give as many 1st rounders as possible for Simmons if that's what it took.

Beasley + Prince + 4 1st rounders for Ben

DLO
Ant
Jaden
Ben
KAT

Even

Beverly
DLO
Ant
Ben
KAT

That is a team competing for a deep playoff run, especially if Ant takes that leap

[winforlose]

Unpopular opinion; I would give as many 1st rounders as possible for Simmons if that's what it took.

Beasley + Prince + 4 1st rounders for Ben

DLO
Ant
Jaden
Ben
KAT

Even

Beverly
DLO
Ant
Ben
KAT

That is a team competing for a deep playoff run, especially if Ant takes that leap

Even with deep protection on all 4 picks it still seems like a bad idea. The rule against trading back to back firsts would make trading for anybody else a real nightmare. I don’t think Simmons replaces the scoring of Beasley, and his huge contract ties our hands for the next few years. For that value there are bigger stars than Simmons around.

[Dewey]

Unpopular opinion; I would give as many 1st rounders as possible for Simmons if that's what it took.

Beasley + Prince + 4 1st rounders for Ben

DLO
Ant
Jaden
Ben
KAT

Even

Beverly
DLO
Ant
Ben
KAT

That is a team competing for a deep playoff run, especially if Ant takes that leap

Nowell and Reid would need to be top of their game as well … gotta be 8 deep minimum. 4 picks is over kill. No one would ever do that.

[jpatrick]

Unpopular opinion; I would give as many 1st rounders as possible for Simmons if that's what it took.

Beasley + Prince + 4 1st rounders for Ben

DLO
Ant
Jaden
Ben
KAT

Even

Beverly
DLO
Ant
Ben
KAT

That is a team competing for a deep playoff run, especially if Ant takes that leap

Even with deep protection on all 4 picks it still seems like a bad idea. The rule against trading back to back firsts would make trading for anybody else a real nightmare. I don’t think Simmons replaces the scoring of Beasley, and his huge contract ties our hands for the next few years. For that value there are bigger stars than Simmons around.

Something to consider. Just listened to Danes most recent pod, both him and Michael Rand state they believe KAT will demand out and be traded next offseason if they don’t go over 500. I don’t think this roster goes over 500 without another major move. Are we ready to blow this up again? I’d rather go for it now with a Simmons type move.

[King Malta]

Unpopular opinion; I would give as many 1st rounders as possible for Simmons if that's what it took.

Beasley + Prince + 4 1st rounders for Ben

DLO
Ant
Jaden
Ben
KAT

Even

Beverly
DLO
Ant
Ben
KAT

That is a team competing for a deep playoff run, especially if Ant takes that leap

Even with deep protection on all 4 picks it still seems like a bad idea. The rule against trading back to back firsts would make trading for anybody else a real nightmare. I don’t think Simmons replaces the scoring of Beasley, and his huge contract ties our hands for the next few years. For that value there are bigger stars than Simmons around.

Something to consider. Just listened to Danes most recent pod, both him and Michael Rand state they believe KAT will demand out and be traded next offseason if they don’t go over 500. I don’t think this roster goes over 500 without another major move. Are we ready to blow this up again? I’d rather go for it now with a Simmons type move.

I don't think we can afford to blow it up again and make Ant wait like KAT has tbh.

I think we need to attempt to be as relevant and competitive as we can for the next few years. I still think KAT ultimately ends up leaving in 3-4 years if we are competitive (we won't win a chip), but at least in that period of time we'll have proven to Ant and to the rest of the league that we're a team that can consistently get to the playoffs and hopefully grab a couple of series wins. Right now we're a joke in a medium market.

We're not in a position to act like it's either a chip or bust. We've made the playoffs what...9 times in 32 years? And we've gotten past the first round once. In my opinion the goal should be developing into organizations like Denver and Utah, markets that aren't very different from ours but that are perennially competitive and as a result have at least some pull on the FA market and seem to keep their best players around a bit longer.

[shrink]

Something to consider. Just listened to Danes most recent pod, both him and Michael Rand state they believe KAT will demand out and be traded next offseason if they don’t go over 500. I don’t think this roster goes over 500 without another major move. Are we ready to blow this up again? I’d rather go for it now with a Simmons type move.

They also mentioned Rand’s partner on his pod is 100% against bringing in Ben Simmons.

No offense to Dane or Rand, but I have been listening to bad trades for the last three years on the Trade Board, who’s justification is “Do my trade or KAT will leave!” Three years.

[King Malta]

Something to consider. Just listened to Danes most recent pod, both him and Michael Rand state they believe KAT will demand out and be traded next offseason if they don’t go over 500. I don’t think this roster goes over 500 without another major move. Are we ready to blow this up again? I’d rather go for it now with a Simmons type move.

They also mentioned Rand’s partner on his pod is 100% against bringing in Ben Simmons.

No offense to Dane or Rand, but I have been listening to bad trades for the last three years on the Trade Board, who’s justification is “Do my trade or KAT will leave!” Three years.

I mean, ultimately that's the fun of some of these podcasts at the end of the day to be fair haha, listening to conflicting views and and weighing them up against your logical train of thought etc.

With KAT I think we have the 'advantage' (I couldn't think of a better word but feel like it's a bit off in this circumstance) of him feeling some kind of additional emotional connection to the franchise due to some of the pretty **** personal experiences he's had with Flip, his mother, the community etc. I'm not sure he'll be as quick to give up on the Team and the City as some people assume.

[Dewey]

Something to consider. Just listened to Danes most recent pod, both him and Michael Rand state they believe KAT will demand out and be traded next offseason if they don’t go over 500. I don’t think this roster goes over 500 without another major move. Are we ready to blow this up again? I’d rather go for it now with a Simmons type move.

They also mentioned Rand’s partner on his pod is 100% against bringing in Ben Simmons.

No offense to Dane or Rand, but I have been listening to bad trades for the last three years on the Trade Board, who’s justification is “Do my trade or KAT will leave!” Three years.

KAT nor DLo have NOT even proven to be team leaders… I don’t buy that ultimatum for a second … that’s bs talk.

The risk is all on the Wolves because what happens if/when KAT and DLo prove they cannot win? Danes and Rand can S_ck it, because if they had any balls they’d be calling them two out to man up.

Bottom-line: if we fail and have to blow it up next year, are we better off with Simmons on or off the team?

[winforlose]

Even with deep protection on all 4 picks it still seems like a bad idea. The rule against trading back to back firsts would make trading for anybody else a real nightmare. I don’t think Simmons replaces the scoring of Beasley, and his huge contract ties our hands for the next few years. For that value there are bigger stars than Simmons around.

Something to consider. Just listened to Danes most recent pod, both him and Michael Rand state they believe KAT will demand out and be traded next offseason if they don’t go over 500. I don’t think this roster goes over 500 without another major move. Are we ready to blow this up again? I’d rather go for it now with a Simmons type move.

I don't think we can afford to blow it up again and make Ant wait like KAT has tbh.

I think we need to attempt to be as relevant and competitive as we can for the next few years. I still think KAT ultimately ends up leaving in 3-4 years if we are competitive (we won't win a chip), but at least in that period of time we'll have proven to Ant and to the rest of the league that we're a team that can consistently get to the playoffs and hopefully grab a couple of series wins. Right now we're a joke in a medium market.

We're not in a position to act like it's either a chip or bust. We've made the playoffs what...9 times in 32 years? And we've gotten past the first round once. In my opinion the goal should be developing into organizations like Denver and Utah, markets that aren't very different from ours but that are perennially competitive and as a result have at least some pull on the FA market and seem to keep their best players around a bit longer.

KAT knows how important he is to this team and how his absence for the first third of the season killed our playoff hopes. The truth is our team is a year older, with a better head coach, and more developed chemistry compared to last year. If we stay healthy this team could easily compete for a playoff spot. Our defense got a lot better with Balmaro, Beverly, and Prince. We have plenty of distance shooting, and we have a decent chance of finding a seller by the deadline. I think we ride things out for a while and see if we can find a better contract impact player later in the winter.

[shrink]

Patrick Beverly, Rajon Rondo & Daniel Oturu got traded to the Grizzlies today for Eric Bledsoe. Memphis is pretty stacked now and apparently the futures of all three of those players there are up in the air. Anyone you think the Timberwolves should grab?

Personally my first choice would be Beverly. Think he brings this team some grit & toughness and would be an ideal backup PG for us. Rondo could also possibly be that veteran PG presence we need. Would be interested in spinning off one or two of our spare parts and one of our three second round picks next year for one of those two.

Good call!

[IceManBK1]

Min, Ind and 76ers trade
Min in:Ben Simmons
Out: Beasley, Layman, Prince, Reid 3 1sts, 1 2nd

Philly in: Brogdon, prince, our 3 1sts
Out: Ben Simmons

Ind in: Beasley, Layman, Reid, 2nd from us
Out: Brogdon

Dlo/Beverly/Bolmaro
Edwards/Okogie/Novell
McDaniels/Avery Bradley or Wesley Mathews(vet min)
Simmons/Vanderbilt(4 yr 20mil deal)/Ethan Knight
Towns/Biyombo(2 yrs 8 mil)

[winforlose]

Min, Ind and 76ers trade
Min in:Ben Simmons
Out: Beasley, Layman, Prince, Reid 3 1sts, 1 2nd

Philly in: Brogdon, prince, our 3 1sts
Out: Ben Simmons

Ind in: Beasley, Layman, Reid, 2nd from us
Out: Brogdon

Dlo/Beverly/Bolmaro
Edwards/Okogie/Novell
McDaniels/Avery Bradley or Wesley Mathews(vet min)
Simmons/Vanderbilt(4 yr 20mil deal)/Ethan Knight
Towns/Biyombo(2 yrs 8 mil)

I am sorry but this is just a hard NO. You want to give up our backup center, starting SG, 3 firsts, a second, and a serviceable rotation 3/4 in prince, all for one player who cannot shoot long 2s or 3s, crapped the bed in the playoffs last year and is on a max contract? How is 3 rotation players 3 firsts, and a 2nd even remotely plausible?

[minimus]

MIN GETS: Chris Bouchard + TOR 2023 2nd
TOR GETS: Naz Reid, Jake Layman, Josh Okogie

MIN gets their starting PF on a reasonable contract ($7 mil, expiring). Bouchard is 28, but we would get his Bird rights. He can defend, and he can shoot three’s a bit. I worry that TOR players will decline once out of their great organization, but perhaps Chris Finch was part of his success in TOR? The deal also clears an additional $2.8 mil under the lux and a couple roster spots, and maybe finding minutes for Bolmaro and Nowell.

Adding the other players helps us cash in on the cheapness of his deal. Don’t forget, his second cheap year is an illusion. MIN, or whoever he is traded to, is not going to use it and let him become a frustrated UFA that got underpaid. His team will renounce the 2022-23 season and keep him home on a new deal as an RFA.

Why for TOR? Naz is a nice fit as their new starting C. Bouchard would remain a bench player behind Siakim. Layman is salary filler, but Okogie can play, and would be a good mentor for Precious Achiuwa.

JFYI 61% of TOR fans would trade Boucher for assets.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2116280

Will Jake Layman, Josh Okogie, two 2nd round picks be enough for Boucher?

KAT/Reid/Boucher + Knight
Boucher/Vando/McDaniels
McDaniels/Prince/Edwards
Edwards/Beasley/Nowell
DLo/Beverly/Bolmaro + Wright

I really like Chris Boucher but he's only 6'9" 205 lb. We have that in McD and Vando. We need some bulk down there that won't get pushed around. Derek Favors? Millsap? Turner? I'd love Boucher if he went 230-240.

I agree that KAT-Boucher-McDaniels frontcourt would suffer against big lineups. However if they can defend in space, it would be a huge improvement, we were bottom 3 teams in transition defense. Multiple resources indicated that Towns shed some weight this offseason to improve his mobility, plus Nowell in his latest interview said that they want to take pressure off bigs, they also want to bigs to defend at the level, rather than playing always drop scheme. Adding Boucher with 7'3" wingspan at PF and sliding McDaniels with 7' wingspan might be a very efficient way to improve help defens. I mean there is a difference when Okogie and Culver defend PF/SF and when McDaniels or Boucher would rotate to provide some weakside help.

I also like Millsap fit a lot. Many mentioned him as a FA target. I would love to bring him here. He is tough, experienced, calm. Plus he is 250lbs, 7'1.5" wingspan. He has low center of gravity and good mobility.

KAT/Reid + Knight
Millsap/Vando/McDaniels
McDaniels/Prince/Edwards
Edwards/Beasley/Nowell
DLo/Beverly/Bolmaro + Wright