Trade Ideas (Part III)

[Stillwater]

Sounds like progress at least. The question is, what are the Cavs offering? If the Cavs are offering $20M and they choose to meet in the middle ... that's fine. Little sense going to the mat over a couple million, that rarely ends up being smart.

It really wasn't a report it was an opinion during a podcast stating he "thinks" the negotiations will get rolling more after the break around Labor Day. He said he knows up until now there have only been some break the ice conversations where Altman has spoken to Sextons camp probably to set up their timeline for extension talks. At no time did he suggest he heard anything around 100 million was talked about but he knows they are going to ask for at least that and he did say he thinks there may be a recognition by Collins people that his value around the league is not as high as they think it should be, he also said he thinks for the first time in a couple months he there is a chance a extension gets done that somewhere below the max ...he thinks there is a recognition on Collins part that they are not getting the max, but he also says thats just the "sense that he gets right now". so it is Fedor speculating not reporting facts.

You make an important clarification, but Fedor's "sense" makes a lot of ... umm sense.

Ultimately, Collin may still decide to bet on himself, but I think his agent tried to establish Collin as a max player and failed.

IMO, with 5 young players and 4 of them still looking forward to their big pay day, the Cavs have quite the puzzle to solve. I'd love to see how they're budgeting the salaries for our 5 young players and potentially even more lottery picks arriving in the near future.

The fact our picks are spread out at least gives us some more time to figure out what we're doing.

That is a lot of guessing on your part imo
I think Sexton himself thinks he deserves the max and it is only the market itself that may work in the Cavs favor to retain him for less

[JonFromVA]

It really wasn't a report it was an opinion during a podcast stating he "thinks" the negotiations will get rolling more after the break around Labor Day. He said he knows up until now there have only been some break the ice conversations where Altman has spoken to Sextons camp probably to set up their timeline for extension talks. At no time did he suggest he heard anything around 100 million was talked about but he knows they are going to ask for at least that and he did say he thinks there may be a recognition by Collins people that his value around the league is not as high as they think it should be, he also said he thinks for the first time in a couple months he there is a chance a extension gets done that somewhere below the max ...he thinks there is a recognition on Collins part that they are not getting the max, but he also says thats just the "sense that he gets right now". so it is Fedor speculating not reporting facts.

You make an important clarification, but Fedor's "sense" makes a lot of ... umm sense.

Ultimately, Collin may still decide to bet on himself, but I think his agent tried to establish Collin as a max player and failed.

IMO, with 5 young players and 4 of them still looking forward to their big pay day, the Cavs have quite the puzzle to solve. I'd love to see how they're budgeting the salaries for our 5 young players and potentially even more lottery picks arriving in the near future.

The fact our picks are spread out at least gives us some more time to figure out what we're doing.

That is a lot of guessing on your part imo
I think Sexton himself thinks he deserves the max and it is only the market itself that may work in the Cavs favor to retain him for less

It's called deduction, Watson.

[Revenged25]

I mean yeah, but its just...depressing. Adding Allen/Mobley in the past 6 months should help a ton, but from watching summer league--I dont expect Mobley to really have a consistent impact on willing his rookie season. Bigs take a bit longer to develop and find their niche than 3pt shooting guards.

I will say--the Cavs had a rebuild for the past 3 years and have constructed their roster being

PG- Garland
SG- Sexton
SF- Okoro
PF- Mobley
C- Allen

That not a bad job, its just all of these guys need another year or two to develop and I am a impatient person going into year 4 of this.

If Mobley can just stay be healthy and play very good/great defense then he'll massively help the team in winning. He doesn't need to average 20+ ppg. When the Cavs were at their best last season, it was when Nance + Drummond were healthy and involved so that the defense was able to help spur more offense. Once Nance got hurt and Drummond wasn't motived to play anymore, the team crumbled.

If Mobley's rookie season is him averaging 12/6/5/1.8 while being healthy all year, I'll consider that a win and expect the Cavs to be over 30 wins.

With my Wine & Gold colored glasses on, I'd like to believe that's a possibility. That maybe even Mobley can make one of the All Defensive teams, but history says it's really hard for 19 year old rookies to make an impact on defense.

For instance, Anthony Davis was one of the best defensive prospects ever, but New Orleans was slightly worse defensively (and offensively) with him on the floor .vs. off. Rebounding is also a big part of defense and Mobley is probably not going to be very good at it early on.

That being said, last season was a disaster and I don't it accept where we left off as this team's baseline.

I mean he doesn't need to be All-Defensive team to see an impact on defense, just able to actually defend. I think he'll be able to defend at the same level as Nance did to start last year, maybe not in the steals/deflect like Nance did, but I think he'll do better at preventing/altering shots if not outright blocking them than Nance did.

I do agree he'll have lower rebounds, that's why I only put him at 6 rebounds a game, in my stat line.

[JonFromVA]

If Mobley can just stay be healthy and play very good/great defense then he'll massively help the team in winning. He doesn't need to average 20+ ppg. When the Cavs were at their best last season, it was when Nance + Drummond were healthy and involved so that the defense was able to help spur more offense. Once Nance got hurt and Drummond wasn't motived to play anymore, the team crumbled.

If Mobley's rookie season is him averaging 12/6/5/1.8 while being healthy all year, I'll consider that a win and expect the Cavs to be over 30 wins.

With my Wine & Gold colored glasses on, I'd like to believe that's a possibility. That maybe even Mobley can make one of the All Defensive teams, but history says it's really hard for 19 year old rookies to make an impact on defense.

For instance, Anthony Davis was one of the best defensive prospects ever, but New Orleans was slightly worse defensively (and offensively) with him on the floor .vs. off. Rebounding is also a big part of defense and Mobley is probably not going to be very good at it early on.

That being said, last season was a disaster and I don't it accept where we left off as this team's baseline.

I mean he doesn't need to be All-Defensive team to see an impact on defense, just able to actually defend. I think he'll be able to defend at the same level as Nance did to start last year, maybe not in the steals/deflect like Nance did, but I think he'll do better at preventing/altering shots if not outright blocking them than Nance did.

I do agree he'll have lower rebounds, that's why I only put him at 6 rebounds a game, in my stat line.

Nance was very good at generating steals and deflections and guarding multiple positions. Mobley should be very good at blocks and contesting shots, but there's a lot more to defense that that. He's going to struggle physically, rebounding will be a challenge, but generally the reason young players are not effective on defense is because it takes months/years for them to grasp team defense concepts.

We can hope his intelligence helps, we can hope the coaching staff and other players help him along, and we can hope his raw ability covers up most of his mistakes.

But that's not typical ... it would be exceptional.

[Stillwater]

You make an important clarification, but Fedor's "sense" makes a lot of ... umm sense.

Ultimately, Collin may still decide to bet on himself, but I think his agent tried to establish Collin as a max player and failed.

IMO, with 5 young players and 4 of them still looking forward to their big pay day, the Cavs have quite the puzzle to solve. I'd love to see how they're budgeting the salaries for our 5 young players and potentially even more lottery picks arriving in the near future.

The fact our picks are spread out at least gives us some more time to figure out what we're doing.

That is a lot of guessing on your part imo
I think Sexton himself thinks he deserves the max and it is only the market itself that may work in the Cavs favor to retain him for less

It's called deduction, Watson.

no **** sherlock now go deduct yourself then maybe you can see clearly because it seems you are dreaming that up as a scenario that helps your position arguing against him getting paid...not one that makes any sense if they have not even been in any serious talks yet.

[LivingLegend]

I think it wont be nearly as bad as you think record wise even if they make no more significant changes and are healthier. I expect a 7 game increase minimum with 10 more games so 29- 53 at the least if the typical KLove unhealthy and 5 more on top of that if he is healthy so 34 wins seems reasonable despite many East teams getting better on paper this offseason, most of them are just looking for quick fixes where the Cavs have to keep building brick by brick in the small market that plays its rookies over 38 minutes per.

I mean yeah, but its just...depressing. Adding Allen/Mobley in the past 6 months should help a ton, but from watching summer league--I dont expect Mobley to really have a consistent impact on willing his rookie season. Bigs take a bit longer to develop and find their niche than 3pt shooting guards.

I will say--the Cavs had a rebuild for the past 3 years and have constructed their roster being

PG- Garland
SG- Sexton
SF- Okoro
PF- Mobley
C- Allen

That not a bad job, its just all of these guys need another year or two to develop and I am a impatient person going into year 4 of this.

If Mobley can just stay be healthy and play very good/great defense then he'll massively help the team in winning. He doesn't need to average 20+ ppg. When the Cavs were at their best last season, it was when Nance + Drummond were healthy and involved so that the defense was able to help spur more offense. Once Nance got hurt and Drummond wasn't motived to play anymore, the team crumbled.

If Mobley's rookie season is him averaging 12/6/5/1.8 while being healthy all year, I'll consider that a win and expect the Cavs to be over 30 wins.

His defense will help but the Cavs were also the lowest scoring team in the league last year. They need something out of him on that end. I dont think its out of the question to expect 15PPG out of the #3 pick in the draft. A bunch of 8/4/5 statlines with solid defense wont move the needle very much, if at all.

[JonFromVA]

That is a lot of guessing on your part imo
I think Sexton himself thinks he deserves the max and it is only the market itself that may work in the Cavs favor to retain him for less

It's called deduction, Watson.

no **** sherlock now go deduct yourself then maybe you can see clearly because it seems you are dreaming that up as a scenario that helps your position arguing against him getting paid...not one that makes any sense if they have not even been in any serious talks yet.

Please remind me the next time you actually get something right.

It sure wasn't this one ...

"I see an eraser in the future as I think Green or Cade are the ones that fall to 3 not Mobley."

[Stillwater]

It's called deduction, Watson.

no **** sherlock now go deduct yourself then maybe you can see clearly because it seems you are dreaming that up as a scenario that helps your position arguing against him getting paid...not one that makes any sense if they have not even been in any serious talks yet.

Please remind me the next time you actually get something right.

It sure wasn't this one ...

"I see an eraser in the future as I think Green or Cade are the ones that fall to 3 not Mobley."

lol I can't help it if Houston and Detroit are more interested in guards than generational pf's and regret their decisions later.
Mobley should have gone 2nd at least.
what is all this about being right anyway? I am always the sceptic and it seems I was right already when I said Sexton was never getting traded...and tbh I think you are the one believing everything thrown at the wall and take things way to fkn personal for my taste on an anonymous internet forum where there is no place for it.
My take on the Sexton thing is simple...he deserves a max based on futures , probably won't get offered it based on mismanagement, plays for RFA and leaves. This org sucks

[Revenged25]

I mean yeah, but its just...depressing. Adding Allen/Mobley in the past 6 months should help a ton, but from watching summer league--I dont expect Mobley to really have a consistent impact on willing his rookie season. Bigs take a bit longer to develop and find their niche than 3pt shooting guards.

I will say--the Cavs had a rebuild for the past 3 years and have constructed their roster being

PG- Garland
SG- Sexton
SF- Okoro
PF- Mobley
C- Allen

That not a bad job, its just all of these guys need another year or two to develop and I am a impatient person going into year 4 of this.

If Mobley can just stay be healthy and play very good/great defense then he'll massively help the team in winning. He doesn't need to average 20+ ppg. When the Cavs were at their best last season, it was when Nance + Drummond were healthy and involved so that the defense was able to help spur more offense. Once Nance got hurt and Drummond wasn't motived to play anymore, the team crumbled.

If Mobley's rookie season is him averaging 12/6/5/1.8 while being healthy all year, I'll consider that a win and expect the Cavs to be over 30 wins.

His defense will help but the Cavs were also the lowest scoring team in the league last year. They need something out of him on that end. I dont think its out of the question to expect 15PPG out of the #3 pick in the draft. A bunch of 8/4/5 statlines with solid defense wont move the needle very much, if at all.

I was putting 12 on the low end of what I expect. 15 ppg is definitely likely. I also think he'll definitely improve the offense a lot with his passing.

[Stillwater]

If Mobley can just stay be healthy and play very good/great defense then he'll massively help the team in winning. He doesn't need to average 20+ ppg. When the Cavs were at their best last season, it was when Nance + Drummond were healthy and involved so that the defense was able to help spur more offense. Once Nance got hurt and Drummond wasn't motived to play anymore, the team crumbled.

If Mobley's rookie season is him averaging 12/6/5/1.8 while being healthy all year, I'll consider that a win and expect the Cavs to be over 30 wins.

His defense will help but the Cavs were also the lowest scoring team in the league last year. They need something out of him on that end. I dont think its out of the question to expect 15PPG out of the #3 pick in the draft. A bunch of 8/4/5 statlines with solid defense wont move the needle very much, if at all.

I was putting 12 on the low end of what I expect. 15 ppg is definitely likely. I also think he'll definitely improve the offense a lot with his passing.

Yeah I will very surprised if they dont run the offense though him a lot after this season but am unsure how much confidence I have they will do it this season. I think he will struggle some in the paint offensively but if used on the perimeter more than anticipated by most he could become a legit playmaking 3 since he already has the handles and passing ability defensive mobility and bbiq. Ideally he becomes the playmaking 4 but I don't think you can pigeon hole his position since his versatility is unicornish

[Wisedude]

Mobley definitely lacks strength and weight 215lbs at this time is understandable given his age.
In 6 years, will Mobley be up to 240lbs or more like Giannis is....to me that is one of the questions.
Does Mobley have the same drive as Giannis to be that type of player....MVP.....or will he be a complimentary player like Bosh or less.
Time will answer all of these questions.

[Revenged25]

Mobley definitely lacks strength and weight 215lbs at this time is understandable given his age.
In 6 years, will Mobley be up to 240lbs or more like Giannis is....to me that is one of the questions.
Does Mobley have the same drive as Giannis to be that type of player....MVP.....or will he be a complimentary player like Bosh or less.
Time will answer all of these questions.

Bosh was only a complimentary player because he was paired with LeBron and Wade. Prior to that he was the best player on the Raptors putting up 20/10 since his 3rd year in the league, just the rest of his team was crap and never consistently made the playoffs.

[JonFromVA]

no **** sherlock now go deduct yourself then maybe you can see clearly because it seems you are dreaming that up as a scenario that helps your position arguing against him getting paid...not one that makes any sense if they have not even been in any serious talks yet.

Please remind me the next time you actually get something right.

It sure wasn't this one ...

"I see an eraser in the future as I think Green or Cade are the ones that fall to 3 not Mobley."

lol I can't help it if Houston and Detroit are more interested in guards than generational pf's and regret their decisions later.
Mobley should have gone 2nd at least.
what is all this about being right anyway? I am always the sceptic and it seems I was right already when I said Sexton was never getting traded...and tbh I think you are the one believing everything thrown at the wall and take things way to fkn personal for my taste on an anonymous internet forum where there is no place for it.
My take on the Sexton thing is simple...he deserves a max based on futures , probably won't get offered it based on mismanagement, plays for RFA and leaves. This org sucks

That's the thing, you can help it. For one thing you can stop rejecting every report or opinion that disagrees with your own opinion. What you would do is irrelevant to what the Pistons, Rockets, or Cavs will do.

And as for Sexton, you denied the reports that the Cavs were even looking in to trading him. Whether he actually does get traded was always going to be based on things like what we get in return and whether Collin lowers his asking price. The reports said the Cavs wanted a near All-Star player for Collin, not that they were willing to dump him for whatever they could get.

Now some people feel the Cavs are simply done with the Sexland experiment and short of him accepting a 6th man salary that will be traded. That line of thinking made a lot more sense when it looked like we might draft Jalen Green. I'm not personally buying that now ... but we may have to wait for the trade deadline or potentially even beyond to be sure.

If we move Collin to the bench that would be a strong tell, but I don't expect that to happen. At least not until there's evidence it would be better for the team.

[mcfly1204]

So..... where are these trade ideas?

[JonFromVA]

Mobley definitely lacks strength and weight 215lbs at this time is understandable given his age.
In 6 years, will Mobley be up to 240lbs or more like Giannis is....to me that is one of the questions.
Does Mobley have the same drive as Giannis to be that type of player....MVP.....or will he be a complimentary player like Bosh or less.
Time will answer all of these questions.

Bosh was only a complimentary player because he was paired with LeBron and Wade. Prior to that he was the best player on the Raptors putting up 20/10 since his 3rd year in the league, just the rest of his team was crap and never consistently made the playoffs.

Yeah, I wouldn't call Bosh a complimentary player, but I wouldn't really call him a franchise player either. There's only so much value in a PF that shoots a lot of mid-range jumpers, doesn't create a lot of offense, and isn't an anchor on defense.

Mobley has the potential to click a lot more boxes and we can track his progress.

For instance, Bosh averaged 1.1 assists per 36 as a rookie and was up to around his career best in his 3rd at 2.4.

Giannis was at 1.9 as a rook and was up to 4.3 in his 3rd.

Giannis kept improving his assists, scoring, and efficiency after his 3rd season, while Bosh was pretty much who he was going to be.

A better point of comparison for tracking Mobley may be Jaren Jackson on the low-end and Anthony Davis on the high-end, albeit Jackson is still a moving target.

[Stillwater]

Mobley definitely lacks strength and weight 215lbs at this time is understandable given his age.
In 6 years, will Mobley be up to 240lbs or more like Giannis is....to me that is one of the questions.
Does Mobley have the same drive as Giannis to be that type of player....MVP.....or will he be a complimentary player like Bosh or less.
Time will answer all of these questions.

Bosh was only a complimentary player because he was paired with LeBron and Wade. Prior to that he was the best player on the Raptors putting up 20/10 since his 3rd year in the league, just the rest of his team was crap and never consistently made the playoffs.

Yeah, I wouldn't call Bosh a complimentary player, but I wouldn't really call him a franchise player either. There's only so much value in a PF that shoots a lot of mid-range jumpers, doesn't create a lot of offense, and isn't an anchor on defense.

Mobley has the potential to click a lot more boxes and we can track his progress.

For instance, Bosh averaged 1.1 assists per 36 as a rookie and was up to around his career best in his 3rd at 2.4.

Giannis was at 1.9 as a rook and was up to 4.3 in his 3rd.

Giannis kept improving his assists, scoring, and efficiency after his 3rd season, while Bosh was pretty much who he was going to be.

A better point of comparison for tracking Mobley may be Jaren Jackson on the low-end and Anthony Davis on the high-end, albeit Jackson is still a moving target.

...

[Stillwater]

Please remind me the next time you actually get something right.

It sure wasn't this one ...

"I see an eraser in the future as I think Green or Cade are the ones that fall to 3 not Mobley."

lol I can't help it if Houston and Detroit are more interested in guards than generational pf's and regret their decisions later.
Mobley should have gone 2nd at least.
what is all this about being right anyway? I am always the sceptic and it seems I was right already when I said Sexton was never getting traded...and tbh I think you are the one believing everything thrown at the wall and take things way to fkn personal for my taste on an anonymous internet forum where there is no place for it.
My take on the Sexton thing is simple...he deserves a max based on futures , probably won't get offered it based on mismanagement, plays for RFA and leaves. This org sucks

That's the thing, you can help it. For one thing you can stop rejecting every report or opinion that disagrees with your own opinion. What you would do is irrelevant to what the Pistons, Rockets, or Cavs will do.

And as for Sexton, you denied the reports that the Cavs were even looking in to trading him. Whether he actually does get traded was always going to be based on things like what we get in return and whether Collin lowers his asking price. The reports said the Cavs wanted a near All-Star player for Collin, not that they were willing to dump him for whatever they could get.

Now some people feel the Cavs are simply done with the Sexland experiment and short of him accepting a 6th man salary that will be traded. That line of thinking made a lot more sense when it looked like we might draft Jalen Green. I'm not personally buying that now ... but we may have to wait for the trade deadline or potentially even beyond to be sure.

If we move Collin to the bench that would be a strong tell, but I don't expect that to happen. At least not until there's evidence it would be better for the team.

Fans of Garland on the left fans of Sexton on the right lol

[Harper4Ferry?]

You'd think that Kyrie/Waiters would have taught us not to do the Stringer/Avon thing again but here we go with choosing sides.

[LivingLegend]

If Mobley can just stay be healthy and play very good/great defense then he'll massively help the team in winning. He doesn't need to average 20+ ppg. When the Cavs were at their best last season, it was when Nance + Drummond were healthy and involved so that the defense was able to help spur more offense. Once Nance got hurt and Drummond wasn't motived to play anymore, the team crumbled.

If Mobley's rookie season is him averaging 12/6/5/1.8 while being healthy all year, I'll consider that a win and expect the Cavs to be over 30 wins.

His defense will help but the Cavs were also the lowest scoring team in the league last year. They need something out of him on that end. I dont think its out of the question to expect 15PPG out of the #3 pick in the draft. A bunch of 8/4/5 statlines with solid defense wont move the needle very much, if at all.

I was putting 12 on the low end of what I expect. 15 ppg is definitely likely. I also think he'll definitely improve the offense a lot with his passing.

True, I just hope that the Cavs actually feature him and not just have him a garbage man for whatsever there like they did Allen last season. It will be awfully annoying to watch Sexland dribble around in circles all day looking to get their shots while Mobley/Allen just stand around waiting for a dump off or rebound.

[LivingLegend]

So..... where are these trade ideas?

All of mine have been dismissed. Ive been an advocate for the Cavs to go get either one of Ross/Bognodovich/Ingles by moving some 2nd rounders but that seems unlikely at this point.