CJ McCollum... one of the best non-all-stars ever

[Myth]

I'm with just about everybody that Portland needs to re-balance the team, and that likely means trading CJ McCollum if possible. But that said, I was just thinking about how good he is. Since his 3rd season in the NBA and becoming a full time starter, the dude has scored over 20ppg every season, and up to 23ppg 2 of those 6 seasons. He also does it at a pretty efficient rate. I think we are used to the West being stacked with guards, and it is a frequent comment that he would be an all-star in the East. Additionally, players from each conference sometimes miss the all-star game despite scoring over 20ppg (It even happened to Dame twice when averaging 25 and 27 in back to back years). But the consistency of McCollum's scoring is maybe the greatest of any non-all-star ever. I went through every player to never make an all-star team that I could think of, and even googled best non-all-stars ever, and found nobody who really even competed with 6 seasons in a row of over 20ppg. I just felt like pointing this out and giving a shoutout to CJ no matter what Portland does with him this off-season.

[Wizenheimer]

before going overboard using his raw points/game number as the gauge, you really need to add the context of of his raw FGA/game.

Since he became the starter 6 years ago, CJ has always ranked higher in the NBA in shots than he has in points. Efficient scorers have that the other way around. This last season, CJ ranked 28th in points/game (only 24 players in an all-star game) but ranked 14th in FGA/game. For comparison, Dame ranked 3rd in scoring but 8th in FGA/game. CJ averaged 23.1 pts on 18.8 FGA. If Zach LaVine averaged the same FGA, he would have averaged 26.6 points. Brandon Ingram would have averaged 24.9 points; Trae Young would have averaged 26.9; Jamal Murray would have averaged 24.2; Demar Derozan would have averaged 26.9; Tobias Harris would have averaged 24.6....if all of them would have had the same shot attempts as CJ

and last season looks like an outlier in terms of efficiency for CJ because of that incredibly hot start coupled with playing a little more than half a season. The year before, CJ ranked 12th in FGA but ranked 20th in points. CJ's career TS% is .553. The last 5 years, the average TS% in the NBA has been:

.552
.556
.560
.563
.572

CJ has certainly had the shot opportunities of an all-star; and he's being paid like an all-star. He doesn't have the efficiency of most all-stars though. Still, I guess you can call him a fringe all-star, but I'd think there are a lot of players that fit that definition. Before saying he's one of the best non-all-stars ever, I'd like to see a list of good players that didn't make an all-star game, and then start accounting for things like defense. Raw scoring average isn't everything

[Myth]

Ok, so some years he is above that average TS% and some years he is below that average TS%. Do you know the average for SGs over those years? He also creates his own shots which is tougher, so those league averages include people who are not having carry such burden.

And to be clear, I'm not saying he has ever had a year that he should have been an all-star. Those names you listed are pretty good company. I'm fine saying that CJ isn't as good as them. And I'm also aware that defense is one of the things that keeps him from being in the discussion for the best non-all-star ever. Ultimately, I was just showing that he has been a consistent offensive weapon that is very rare. Like I said, it appears as in the modern era, he may be the only person to put up those scoring numbers for 6 years straight without making an all-star team. There are also players who have put up bigger numbers for a short span of time and didn't make the all-star team. Really, this thread wasn't made to be a full evaluation of him though, just meant to show some appreciation as we are in a time of crapping on him.

[Wizenheimer]

maybe some people are crapping on him. CJ certainly had a crappy playoff series against Denver

but I think for the most part Blazer fans have generally arrived at a fairly accurate evaluation of CJ's value. That's why so many want him traded for a better fit while understanding it would likely take more than just CJ to get that better fit

and of course, a significant component of CJ's Portland value has always been the awkward mesh with Dame. They are way too similar in style and weaknesses

[BNM]

While I don't consider him to be the best player to never make an all star game, there have certainly been all stars who have made the team while having worse statistical seasons than CJ.

The top two reasons he hasn't made the all star game are scoring inflation (due to more 3-pointers and faster pace) and the preponderance of great guards in the Western Conference.

CJ has never finished higher than 17th in scoring. Last season's 23.12 ppg would have regularly put him in the top 10 in scoring through most of the 1990s and early 2000s, peaking at 4th in the league in 1998-99. Even as recently as 2008 through 2015, 23.12 ppg would have made the top 10 every year, with another peak at 6th in 2011-12. Unfortunately for CJ, 23 ppg just ain't what it used to be.

The emphasis in 3-point shooting and rules against hand checking has led to an explosion of scoring by guards. The Western Conference, during CJ's career, has been stacked with high scoring guards. When your best skill is scoring, and there are several others playing the same position who score even more (and do other things at a high level), you're just not going to make the all star team, unless there is a spate of injuries at your position.

Best non-all star ever, nope. Fringe all star who may get in if he becomes a No. 1 option, is the No.2 option on a team that's in first place at the break, or as a possible injury replacement, definitely. CJ is a scoring guard at a time when there are many others who do it as well, or better than he does. If he had played 10 years earlier, his scoring numbers would have been more impressive, but if he'd played 10 years earlier, he most likely wouldn't have been averaging 23 ppg.

[Goldbum]

I think GB3 is going to surprise a lot of people.

[BNM]

I think GB3 is going to surprise a lot of people.

I'm surprised to see him mentioned in a thread about CJ McCollum being an almost all star. I don't get the connection.

[GEE]

I listened to CJ on the WOJ Podcast today. Classy guy that CJ. Worth a listen.

I've always been on record as unopposed to handing the reins to CJ, as a possible alternate solution to the Dame/CJ pairing. But I also see how Dame has become a huge cash-cow for the folks up there in Seattle, so there's that. But I love the Blazers more, than any one player the team has ever had. All things Dame is exhausting to me, the same way it was when B-Roy dominated the discussions... and the ball.

Regardless... Props to you for having the courage to take, and defend a very unpopular stance. I am one of the very few that can imagine a better TEAM, with better chances at success, with a smart Dame trade.

[PDXKnight]

I listened to CJ on the WOJ Podcast today. Classy guy that CJ. Worth a listen.

I've always been on record as unopposed to handing the reins to CJ, as a possible alternate solution to the Dame/CJ pairing. But I also see how Dame has become a huge cash-cow for the folks up there in Seattle, so there's that. But I love the Blazers more, than any one player the team has ever had. All things Dame is exhausting to me, the same way it was when B-Roy dominated the discussions... and the ball.

Regardless... Props to you for having the courage to take, and defend a very unpopular stance. I am one of the very few that can imagine a better TEAM, with better chances at success, with a smart Dame trade.

We are all here trying to imagine a better team in our own way. Some have a bit colorful visions for our future and that’s cool but i just don’t see what kind of win now dame trade makes us better. Making the inferior backcourt partner our best player and trading away a top 5 player will not bring us closer to a title imo, and i don’t think we will get an AD or giannis for dame type of offer which is about all i’d consider unless we are going full rebuild

[DeBlazerRiddem]

I listened to CJ on the WOJ Podcast today. Classy guy that CJ. Worth a listen.

I've always been on record as unopposed to handing the reins to CJ, as a possible alternate solution to the Dame/CJ pairing. But I also see how Dame has become a huge cash-cow for the folks up there in Seattle, so there's that. But I love the Blazers more, than any one player the team has ever had. All things Dame is exhausting to me, the same way it was when B-Roy dominated the discussions... and the ball.

Regardless... Props to you for having the courage to take, and defend a very unpopular stance. I am one of the very few that can imagine a better TEAM, with better chances at success, with a smart Dame trade.

We are all here trying to imagine a better team in our own way. Some have a bit colorful visions for our future and that’s cool but i just don’t see what kind of win now dame trade makes us better. Making the inferior backcourt partner our best player and trading away a top 5 player will not bring us closer to a title imo, and i don’t think we will get an AD or giannis for dame type of offer which is about all i’d consider unless we are going full rebuild

Yeah, our problem already is that we lack enough top-end talent to be a threat. You wont get a better player than Dame in a trade so trading him for a few lesser players and further reducing our top-end talent is just not going to make us better.

[Norm2953]

League however is changing for guys like Otto Porter are signing for the veteran's minimum and Schroeder
are lucky to get the tax payers MLE. The overall league model is a big 3 for the max model followed by the
rest of the roster getting the minimum and I wonder where the middle class players like Roco, Nurkic
will be getting next summer for teams can't afford to pay $15 million player which is why Powell signed'
back with Portland. Makes one wonder what type of deal CJ would be getting this summer if he were a
free agent for he's hardly a guy who would be a prime player in anyone's big 3.

[GEE]

Dame's top 5 in the NBA? I didn't know that. Thought he was in the 10-15 range. Look, I know that Olshey is going to just run it all back, with a new coaching staff, and convince everyone how it's going to be better this time. I just don't think it will, and I don't see a market for CJ. IMHO:

Dame/CJ/Powell/ROCO/Nurk < CJ/Powell/ROCO/Simmons/Nurkic

[PDXKnight]

Dame's top 5 in the NBA? I didn't know that. Thought he was in the 10-15 range. Look, I know that Olshey is going to just run it all back, with a new coaching staff, and convince everyone how it's going to be better this time. I just don't think it will, and I don't see a market for CJ. IMHO:

Dame/CJ/Powell/ROCO/Nurk < CJ/Powell/ROCO/Simmons/Nurkic

Giannis, Jokic, Durant, Curry, Harden, AD, Kawhi, Embeiid, Lebron & Doncic (Could also say to a slightly lesser degree at the moment young/Booker/Tatum/Mitchell) are the only comparable stars imo & id contend Dame is at this stage probably better than Kawhi & Lebron and id say he’s better than Embeiid harden & Doncic (doncic & maybe embeiid could certainly pass dame up soon). I’d take dame over all but 4-5 of those guys if i were constructing a win now roster without blinking & i’d feel assured he’d give me the best shot (outside of those 4-5) of winning me the title above anyone else