Trade Talk (Part Seven)

[VeritasTri]

This place is embarrassing.

Why does Chris Paul bring the suns from out of the playoffs to the finals in one year? He only averages ~16 points.

Remember when Rubio was younger and despite being a god awful shooter who couldnt even make layups managed to be a positive player who made the entire team around him better? How was he able to do that?

Simmons is that kind of player, the kind of guy who wins you games and makes teammates better. He plays amazing defense, reads defenses and has great decision making, is an extremely good finisher at the rim, has a handle and athleticism which lets him blow by similarly sized (or even smaller) players. Hes basically a 6'10" athletic Rubio who can actually score at the rim and defend 1-5. He gets to the line better than almost anybody in the NBA, a whopping .492 FTR, compared to say Harden @ .439, Luka @ .349, Trae @ .491. That is a testament to how good he is at penetrating and putting guys in bad positions, which ultimately makes his elite passing and vision that much more effective.

I honestly feel like most of you have never even watched Ben Simmons play. Its like listening to fans of other teams just talk about Rubios lack of shooting and pretending this alone makes him a negative player, knowing they dont watch the games and see the intangible impact he has every second on the court. He has that elite feel for the game and awareness of what is going on that few players have. He would immediately be the most impactful player we have in regards to winning and we have people here seriously saying Jaden McDaniels is more valuable.

EMBARRASSING.

[jpatrick]

I don’t know the validity of these reported offers. Wouldn’t shock me if these leaks came from Simmons’s agents. Klutch Sports is a really powerful agency. They met with Morey awhile back and Morey reportedly agreed to try and trade Simmons. These leaks could be Klutches way of showing Morey isn’t being genuine with his promise to trade Simmons.

I know the current media cycle says that Philly plans on having Simmons back since Lillard/Beal didn’t hit the market. I don’t see it. This was truly a team publicly blaming a single guy after they lost to the Hawks. Simmons has cut off contact. Even if he reported, his effort will be similar to his LSU days (pathetic).

I think Jon K said the asking price may come down as we approach the season. I think this is true. Then the real offers will come out then. I could see it being us, Spurs, or the Kings. All have been rumored. We probably have the worst available assets to give of that group.

[Slim Tubby]

If we do end up with Simmons, fans in Philly will immediately label Ben as one of the worst contracts in the NBA.

I’m torn on Simmons. He helps win games but it’s terribly difficult for a team to commit one of its 3 Max roster spots when he can’t be trusted when it matters most.

Still, if the offer was Beasley, Prince, McDaniels and a Lottery protected FRP, it’s a gamble that Rosas needs to make. I respect the opinions of others that would disagree with my take because there are concerns worth discussing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[winforlose]

This place is embarrassing.

Why does Chris Paul bring the suns from out of the playoffs to the finals in one year? He only averages ~16 points.

Remember when Rubio was younger and despite being a god awful shooter who couldnt even make layups managed to be a positive player who made the entire team around him better? How was he able to do that?

Simmons is that kind of player, the kind of guy who wins you games and makes teammates better. He plays amazing defense, reads defenses and has great decision making, is an extremely good finisher at the rim, has a handle and athleticism which lets him blow by similarly sized (or even smaller) players. Hes basically a 6'10" athletic Rubio who can actually score at the rim and defend 1-5. He gets to the line better than almost anybody in the NBA, a whopping .492 FTR, compared to say Harden @ .439, Luka @ .349, Trae @ .491. That is a testament to how good he is at penetrating and putting guys in bad positions, which ultimately makes his elite passing and vision that much more effective.

I honestly feel like most of you have never even watched Ben Simmons play. Its like listening to fans of other teams just talk about Rubios lack of shooting and pretending this alone makes him a negative player, knowing they dont watch the games and see the intangible impact he has every second on the court. He has that elite feel for the game and awareness of what is going on that few players have. He would immediately be the most impactful player we have in regards to winning and we have people here seriously saying Jaden McDaniels is more valuable.

EMBARRASSING.

1, A career 59.7% free throw shooter getting to the line a lot is less helpful than you think.

2. Giving up multiple starters for a guy with clear and obvious limits on a max contract is not ideal. This does not negate Simmons talent, but it points to a realistic look. Even if he saves you 20 points a game he loses you the production of Beasley, MCD, and more. With our limited money and non desirable market we will most certainly be downgrading with the replacements.

3. Simmons is also just one player. If he gets hurt (likely given the last two seasons,) that is a lot of time playing with substandard backups. Layman as your backup PF and Vando as your starting PF is a distressing notion.

4. Simmons adding value is speculation at best. His game forces him inside which forces KAT and Ant outside. Beasley and MCD space the floor and add value to KAT and Ant.

5. Your argument appeals to emotion rather than reason. He has been good in Philly thus he will succeed here. The fact is he had his confidence damaged and is not a great a fit, both variables that can hinder performance. Also, the cost is very very high. We are team hungry for wins, that doesn’t mean we ignore the cash in hand to go buy beans in the hopes that they are magic.

[shrink]

I think we need to stop saying “Simmons wins you games” without some qualifications. Personally, I dislike it when people assign positive or negative value to an individual for a team’s results (think “Towns must suck because his sucky team loses”), but I’ll play along.

Embiid wins you games, and his near MVP season led PHI to the best regular season record in the East. But how has Simmons done without Embiid? 34-34. In the East. In the regular season.

Worse, Simmons certainly LOST them that last playoff game, despite Embiid and a very good Tobias Harris. But we are care about future games, and there is no coach on the league that didn’t see Simmons get exposed. I do not think he wins you playoff games, and I think we will see him fouled regularly in crunch time in regular season games too, which will hurt a team’s chance to win.

[SO_MONEY]

Philly reporter says the Morey trade offer for the Kings is, “De’Aaron Fox is the starting point.”

Do you know where the source originated?

Reporters are funny and easily manipulated.

Two were the Philly inquirer, one is PhillyVoice, and one was from the Ringer. They all correlate with each other, and they correlate with multiple national sources that say that Morey is asking a huge price. It’s hard to imagine all these sources are wrong.

I see a lot of people creating a storyline that there are no facts to support, when they don’t agree with the price. You think the reporters are wrong. KG thinks Morey must not want to sell. Another poster believes that these are opening offers, and future negotiations weren’t reported. Another believes that many GMs hate Morey, so they are lying about the offers.

We aren’t in these boardrooms, so all we have is the evidence we get. When it all says the same thing, over and over, it’s hard for me to dismiss them all by tacking on some new explanation that nobody mentioned,

Sources, Shrink.

Let me clarify my point. The "sources" could be anyone pushing any teams agenda. Being it is a outlet from Philly doesn't mean the sources were. In fact if I was doing what I think happened, using the Philadelphia press is the first thing I would do.

I don't think Morey is this delusional, I think if these asks were true there would literally be a call for a health and wellness check on Morey, that is how out of touch with reality they are...that these are a red flag for something serious and are nothing short of destructive behavior. When you answer to people and your destructive behavior has consequences to their holdings it doesn't go unchecked. Yet, no rumors exist that Morey is being questioned by ownership. I just think his asks are being overstated and I don't buy the rumors as presented.

[Baseline81]

This place is embarrassing.

Why does Chris Paul bring the suns from out of the playoffs to the finals in one year? He only averages ~16 points.

Remember when Rubio was younger and despite being a god awful shooter who couldnt even make layups managed to be a positive player who made the entire team around him better? How was he able to do that?

Simmons is that kind of player, the kind of guy who wins you games and makes teammates better. He plays amazing defense, reads defenses and has great decision making, is an extremely good finisher at the rim, has a handle and athleticism which lets him blow by similarly sized (or even smaller) players. Hes basically a 6'10" athletic Rubio who can actually score at the rim and defend 1-5. He gets to the line better than almost anybody in the NBA, a whopping .492 FTR, compared to say Harden @ .439, Luka @ .349, Trae @ .491. That is a testament to how good he is at penetrating and putting guys in bad positions, which ultimately makes his elite passing and vision that much more effective.

I honestly feel like most of you have never even watched Ben Simmons play. Its like listening to fans of other teams just talk about Rubios lack of shooting and pretending this alone makes him a negative player, knowing they dont watch the games and see the intangible impact he has every second on the court. He has that elite feel for the game and awareness of what is going on that few players have. He would immediately be the most impactful player we have in regards to winning and we have people here seriously saying Jaden McDaniels is more valuable.

EMBARRASSING.

Yes, the Suns were out of the post season the prior year, however, they did go 8-0 in the bubble and looked a team on the rise.

The Wolves finished the season playing approximately .500. Given a full training camp under Finch, the Wolves may better that.

Interesting you compare Simmons to Rubio. Rubio's overpaid on his current contract -- several are saying the same of Simmons. Combined with his play (.308 3P%), the Wolves dealt him for Prince and a second round pick -- several do not feel Simmons is worth the asking price (talented played on a rookie contract, multiple first round picks).

[KGdaBom]

Our scoring goes down, our defense gets worse, our bench depth is compromised, and we lose two value contracts and expiring in exchange for a guy who is on a max and putting diminishing and disappointing numbers. I think I can live with three rotation players instead of 1 over valued max player.

It's debatable or we wouldn't be debating it. However, IMO you are wrong about our scoring going down and our defense is getting much better. Yes our bench depth is compromised you got one thing right. As for contracts I don't really care. We get better is the bottom line. You clearly think differently.

Beasley by himself scores more points than Simmons. MCD is our best defender and even if Simmons is an upgrade, you are also losing Prince which means you need to play Vando at the 4 which further compromised our offense. Also, the money matters because now you don’t have enough to fill out the rest of the roster. We go from 12 with Vando and JMAC getting us to 14 to 10 with Vando and JMAC getting us to 12. Add to more low value minimum contracts and our bench gets weaker still. Weaker bench means less offenses and defensive output in the aggregate.

Just because Beasley outscores Simmons doesn't mean our points go down with the switch. Simmons produces more points than Beasley. It's like you say about the aggregate. Simmons is one of the best defenders in the NBA our defense does NOT get worse. You're worrying about the bench way too much.

[KGdaBom]

This place is embarrassing.

Why does Chris Paul bring the suns from out of the playoffs to the finals in one year? He only averages ~16 points.

Remember when Rubio was younger and despite being a god awful shooter who couldnt even make layups managed to be a positive player who made the entire team around him better? How was he able to do that?

Simmons is that kind of player, the kind of guy who wins you games and makes teammates better. He plays amazing defense, reads defenses and has great decision making, is an extremely good finisher at the rim, has a handle and athleticism which lets him blow by similarly sized (or even smaller) players. Hes basically a 6'10" athletic Rubio who can actually score at the rim and defend 1-5. He gets to the line better than almost anybody in the NBA, a whopping .492 FTR, compared to say Harden @ .439, Luka @ .349, Trae @ .491. That is a testament to how good he is at penetrating and putting guys in bad positions, which ultimately makes his elite passing and vision that much more effective.

I honestly feel like most of you have never even watched Ben Simmons play. Its like listening to fans of other teams just talk about Rubios lack of shooting and pretending this alone makes him a negative player, knowing they dont watch the games and see the intangible impact he has every second on the court. He has that elite feel for the game and awareness of what is going on that few players have. He would immediately be the most impactful player we have in regards to winning and we have people here seriously saying Jaden McDaniels is more valuable.

EMBARRASSING.

Great post Great Points.

[winforlose]

It's debatable or we wouldn't be debating it. However, IMO you are wrong about our scoring going down and our defense is getting much better. Yes our bench depth is compromised you got one thing right. As for contracts I don't really care. We get better is the bottom line. You clearly think differently.

Beasley by himself scores more points than Simmons. MCD is our best defender and even if Simmons is an upgrade, you are also losing Prince which means you need to play Vando at the 4 which further compromised our offense. Also, the money matters because now you don’t have enough to fill out the rest of the roster. We go from 12 with Vando and JMAC getting us to 14 to 10 with Vando and JMAC getting us to 12. Add to more low value minimum contracts and our bench gets weaker still. Weaker bench means less offenses and defensive output in the aggregate.

Just because Beasley outscores Simmons doesn't mean our points go down with the switch. Simmons produces more points than Beasley. It's like you say about the aggregate. Simmons is one of the best defenders in the NBA our defense does NOT get worse. You're worrying about the bench way too much.

Let me ask it this way then, do you believe Simmons makes us better, equal, or worse on offense? Again this is not the end of the conversation just clarification. Because above you said we get better on offense, and I fail to see how Beasley taking uncontested catch and shoot 3s from KAT and Ant is better than anyone else taking them from Simmons. Also, while Beasley spaces the floor for any player to attack off the dribble, Simmons congests the lane making it harder to play inside outside.

[SCTwins]

What role does Simmons play in our offense?

I still don't get how he fits so well on this team..

[KGdaBom]

Beasley by himself scores more points than Simmons. MCD is our best defender and even if Simmons is an upgrade, you are also losing Prince which means you need to play Vando at the 4 which further compromised our offense. Also, the money matters because now you don’t have enough to fill out the rest of the roster. We go from 12 with Vando and JMAC getting us to 14 to 10 with Vando and JMAC getting us to 12. Add to more low value minimum contracts and our bench gets weaker still. Weaker bench means less offenses and defensive output in the aggregate.

Just because Beasley outscores Simmons doesn't mean our points go down with the switch. Simmons produces more points than Beasley. It's like you say about the aggregate. Simmons is one of the best defenders in the NBA our defense does NOT get worse. You're worrying about the bench way too much.

Let me ask it this way then, do you believe Simmons makes us better, equal, or worse on offense? Again this is not the end of the conversation just clarification. Because above you said we get better on offense, and I fail to see how Beasley taking uncontested catch and shoot 3s from KAT and Ant is better than anyone else taking them from Simmons. Also, while Beasley spaces the floor for any player to attack off the dribble, Simmons congests the lane making it harder to play inside outside.

Simmons makes us better on offense first by his defense leading to fast break opportunities. Than by great facilitating. Yes better on offense with him than with Beasley.

[winforlose]

Just because Beasley outscores Simmons doesn't mean our points go down with the switch. Simmons produces more points than Beasley. It's like you say about the aggregate. Simmons is one of the best defenders in the NBA our defense does NOT get worse. You're worrying about the bench way too much.

Let me ask it this way then, do you believe Simmons makes us better, equal, or worse on offense? Again this is not the end of the conversation just clarification. Because above you said we get better on offense, and I fail to see how Beasley taking uncontested catch and shoot 3s from KAT and Ant is better than anyone else taking them from Simmons. Also, while Beasley spaces the floor for any player to attack off the dribble, Simmons congests the lane making it harder to play inside outside.

Simmons makes us better on offense first by his defense leading to fast break opportunities. Than by great facilitating. Yes better on offense with him than with Beasley.

Ben Simmons career stats show an average of 1.7 steals per game. His rebounds per game are 8.1, and his blocks are 0.7 per game. How exactly does that translate to more more fast break opportunities? Is the premise that he is so much better than MCD that he will cause them to make errant passes out of fear? MCD was the lead in shot blocks by non centers and he is most likely part of the Simmons asking price. To your comment about facilitating, if they park their center down low and have their PF guard KAT what can Simmons do about it? While its true that going down hill makes it harder to guard someone, it is also true that with help defense and a working knowledge of how to take a charge Simmons abilities are limited. Add to this the offense often runs through ball dominant Ant or KAT at the elbow, how does Simmons improve facilitation. In fact isn’t it true that Simmons needs the ball to be in any way useful on offense? I just don’t see how a ball dominant non shooter is more valuable then a 40+ percent catch and shoot volume 3 point shooter.

[KGdaBom]

Let me ask it this way then, do you believe Simmons makes us better, equal, or worse on offense? Again this is not the end of the conversation just clarification. Because above you said we get better on offense, and I fail to see how Beasley taking uncontested catch and shoot 3s from KAT and Ant is better than anyone else taking them from Simmons. Also, while Beasley spaces the floor for any player to attack off the dribble, Simmons congests the lane making it harder to play inside outside.

Simmons makes us better on offense first by his defense leading to fast break opportunities. Than by great facilitating. Yes better on offense with him than with Beasley.

Ben Simmons career stats show an average of 1.7 steals per game. His rebounds per game are 8.1, and his blocks are 0.7 per game. How exactly does that translate to more more fast break opportunities? Is the premise that he is so much better than MCD that he will cause them to make errant passes out of fear? MCD was the lead in shot blocks by non centers and he is most likely part of the Simmons asking price. To your comment about facilitating, if they park their center down low and have their PF guard KAT what can Simmons do about it? While its true that going down hill makes it harder to guard someone, it is also true that with help defense and a working knowledge of how to take a charge Simmons abilities are limited. Add to this the offense often runs through ball dominant Ant or KAT at the elbow, how does Simmons improve facilitation. In fact isn’t it true that Simmons needs the ball to be in any way useful on offense? I just don’t see how a ball dominant non shooter is more valuable then a 40+ percent catch and shoot volume 3 point shooter.

You don't have the vision to see what I see I guess. IMO Simmons has always been a very good net gain offensive player.

[jpatrick]

What role does Simmons play in our offense?

I still don't get how he fits so well on this team..

I suggest readings Brit’s interview with Finch or Brit’s recent pod with Dane Moore. Apparently, Finch threw Saunder’s offense under the bus. Said the number of plays they ran essentially stunted any creativity on offense.

Finch wants to run a motion offense with very little plays called. Therefore players have to have good offensive feel, knowing where to cut, stand, spot up, pass, etc without a coach telling him where to go. Simmons isn’t a shooter obviously; however, he has an elite BBIQ, passer, cutter, etc. I see him being a third or fourth option in the starting unit and offensive hub with the second unit, where he can create and go in the post.

He’s an excellent offensive player. He’s just not a shooter. A lot of teams have a non-shooter on the floor and that doesn’t hinder them. These are often centers. Thankfully, we have one of the best shooting centers in NBA history thus the fit is good here. Two non-shooters starts to be an issue. Won’t be a problem here.

[winforlose]

Simmons makes us better on offense first by his defense leading to fast break opportunities. Than by great facilitating. Yes better on offense with him than with Beasley.

Ben Simmons career stats show an average of 1.7 steals per game. His rebounds per game are 8.1, and his blocks are 0.7 per game. How exactly does that translate to more more fast break opportunities? Is the premise that he is so much better than MCD that he will cause them to make errant passes out of fear? MCD was the lead in shot blocks by non centers and he is most likely part of the Simmons asking price. To your comment about facilitating, if they park their center down low and have their PF guard KAT what can Simmons do about it? While its true that going down hill makes it harder to guard someone, it is also true that with help defense and a working knowledge of how to take a charge Simmons abilities are limited. Add to this the offense often runs through ball dominant Ant or KAT at the elbow, how does Simmons improve facilitation. In fact isn’t it true that Simmons needs the ball to be in any way useful on offense? I just don’t see how a ball dominant non shooter is more valuable then a 40+ percent catch and shoot volume 3 point shooter.

You don't have the vision to see what I see I guess. IMO Simmons has always been a very good net gain offensive player.

That is a great way to avoid answering the question while blaming me for it. In practice the best way to help me see what you see is for you to do your best to explain it to me.

[Dosadi]

This has been a fascinating discussion to observe. When I read it, I see a few different perspectives shared. Among those:

1- He doesn't fit in the T-Wolves offense b/c he will "kludge up" the middle.
2 - The trade for him would - if anything close to what Morey appears to be demanding - gut the support structure that has been developed for the current structure of the team.
3 - He makes the Wolves better because he's better on defense and a great facilitator in transition.
4 - A player that cannot make free-throws cannot be on the floor at the end of important games.

My own opinion is based upon a few premises that are not guaranteed to be accurate, as follows:

First, that if acquired, there are 3 core pieces that would not be touched (Ant/Kat/Dlo).

Second, that his role on this team would be dramatically different than his role on the 76ers.

Third, that what he showed during the Atlanta series - insightfully written about here https://www.si.com/nba/2021/06/21/sixers-hawks-game-7-ben-simmons-flaws-trae-young - is who he is currently, and I don't believe that will change if he stays in Philadelphia.

Given those premises, I would do a deal to get him. Primarily because if you have him on defense, rebounding and running the break where available, while not forcing him to be the primary ball handler on settled offense - the team is better. Imagine him in the "dunker spot" but with Kat, Ant and D'Lo surrounding him (and Jaden finding cutting lanes if not part of the deal) rather than what Philly surrounds him with. Imagine him picking and rolling with Kat, where Kat is the ball handler, not the picker. Imagine him with the pressure OFF of him as the #1 or #2 guy, but instead being the 4th option who finishes or distributes off of passes from Ant.

It does take away depth - but I'd argue one of the better aspects of the current regime is finding "diamonds in the rough" to surround the top players. e.g. Jaden, Naz, Norwell, and now possibly Nathan Knight. This - to me - makes the "gutting the team" concern less critical.

And yes, the free-throw issues is problematic. I guess I would count on his being a professional and being embarrassed by his lack of success at that point. This is, truly, the biggest concern I have with such a deal.

[winforlose]

This has been a fascinating discussion to observe. When I read it, I see a few different perspectives shared. Among those:

1- He doesn't fit in the T-Wolves offense b/c he will "kludge up" the middle.
2 - The trade for him would - if anything close to what Morey appears to be demanding - gut the support structure that has been developed for the current structure of the team.
3 - He makes the Wolves better because he's better on defense and a great facilitator in transition.
4 - A player that cannot make free-throws cannot be on the floor at the end of important games.

My own opinion is based upon a few premises that are not guaranteed to be accurate, as follows:

First, that if acquired, there are 3 core pieces that would not be touched (Ant/Kat/Dlo).

Second, that his role on this team would be dramatically different than his role on the 76ers.

Third, that what he showed during the Atlanta series - insightfully written about here https://www.si.com/nba/2021/06/21/sixers-hawks-game-7-ben-simmons-flaws-trae-young - is who he is currently, and I don't believe that will change if he stays in Philadelphia.

Given those premises, I would do a deal to get him. Primarily because if you have him on defense, rebounding and running the break where available, while not forcing him to be the primary ball handler on settled offense - the team is better. Imagine him in the "dunker spot" but with Kat, Ant and D'Lo surrounding him (and Jaden finding cutting lanes if not part of the deal) rather than what Philly surrounds him with. Imagine him picking and rolling with Kat, where Kat is the ball handler, not the picker. Imagine him with the pressure OFF of him as the #1 or #2 guy, but instead being the 4th option who finishes or distributes off of passes from Ant.

It does take away depth - but I'd argue one of the better aspects of the current regime is finding "diamonds in the rough" to surround the top players. e.g. Jaden, Naz, Norwell, and now possibly Nathan Knight. This - to me - makes the "gutting the team" concern less critical.

And yes, the free-throw issues is problematic. I guess I would count on his being a professional and being embarrassed by his lack of success at that point. This is, truly, the biggest concern I have with such a deal.

This argument while valid brings us back to the Andrew Wiggins question. Andrew Wiggins is a decent player who puts up good numbers, but was not a consistent number 1 or 2 on a bad team, much less a good one. Should Andrew Wiggins be thought of as a bad contract simply because he is a max? My answer is yes, and I believe most of the fanbase of the NBA agrees with me. If you are looking for a talented fourth best option you can find it cheaper both in terms of salary cap hit and cost of acquisition.

Also people seem to miss an important point. With Dlo, Beasley, Ant, MCD, and KAT we are quite solid in our starting unit. Our scoring should make up for our defensive holes, and our being competitive will provide ample motivation for our guys to play better defense. Not to mention Finch is here from the start and can properly implement his own scheme instead of trying to work with Ryan’s (a situation most coach’s find themselves in when taking over mid season.) We don’t have the money, resources, or market to replace what we give away in trade. So giving away quality depth and bench as well as one to two starters had better yield a superstar rather than a fourth option who has serious flaws and is on a max for four years.

[Nick K]

Sixers fan here

Sorry but some of you guys have no idea

Simmons/KAT/Ant/D’lo gets you to playoffs year 1 health permitting

And that’s coming off a 23 win season

He’s that good

You will be frustrated (as we are) BUT the guy wins nba games

Problem is that you guys have nobody that the Sixers want outside of KAT and Ant so deal will be complicated

You neglect to realize they won 23 games because they played huge chunks of the season with 3 of their top 4 players out and a bad HC calling the shots. They were a 500 team the last 23 games when mostly healthy at 12-11.

12-11??????


Who gives a ****!

Simmons gets you to 50 wins+, teaches Edwards to play defence and keeps KAT

As a Sixers fan, I find so many of your arguments ridiculous

Twolves have literally nothing we want because KAT & Ant are off the table and justifiably so

But let’s not pretend that Simmons wouldn’t MASSIVELY improve your team

Minnesota won 23 games

Simmons would do that with our G league team

You don't see any of Simmons failings which are many. Your own team has thrown him under the bus. Philly loves him so much they are running him out town by trade. I don't give a chit what you think. Stay on a Philly board.

[VeritasTri]

1, A career 59.7% free throw shooter getting to the line a lot is less helpful than you think.

2. Giving up multiple starters for a guy with clear and obvious limits on a max contract is not ideal. This does not negate Simmons talent, but it points to a realistic look. Even if he saves you 20 points a game he loses you the production of Beasley, MCD, and more. With our limited money and non desirable market we will most certainly be downgrading with the replacements.

3. Simmons is also just one player. If he gets hurt (likely given the last two seasons,) that is a lot of time playing with substandard backups. Layman as your backup PF and Vando as your starting PF is a distressing notion.

4. Simmons adding value is speculation at best. His game forces him inside which forces KAT and Ant outside. Beasley and MCD space the floor and add value to KAT and Ant.

5. Your argument appeals to emotion rather than reason. He has been good in Philly thus he will succeed here. The fact is he had his confidence damaged and is not a great a fit, both variables that can hinder performance. Also, the cost is very very high. We are team hungry for wins, that doesn’t mean we ignore the cash in hand to go buy beans in the hopes that they are magic.

1. Provide any statistical or logical argument to back that statement. The guy with a .492 FTR is getting to the line 5 times on 10 shots and making 3 of them. A guy with a .355 FTR like Towns (no slouch) is getting to the line 3.5 times on 10 shots and making 2.9 of them. Per 10 FGAs they are going to be basically a wash in how many points from the line they generate, with Simmons having the added edge of racking up more fouls on the opponent. So it is exactly as helpful as I think, very helpful.

2. "Starters" is a relative term, plenty of bums start in this league on lotto teams. Essentially every player in the NBA has "obvious limits", very few players in the NBA have Simmons "obvious elite abilities". Beasley is a bench playing spot up shooter and transition player since the day Ant arrived and Simmons makes up his "production" many times over. When it comes to winning, downgrades to your bench is nothing compared to major upgrades to a starter.

3. His first 2 seasons he missed a combined 4 games. The last 2 seasons he has played 115 games, Towns has played 85. Vando isnt substandard and theres a reason why we played great with a Towns/vando/mcdaniels/ant/dlo lineup, the same reason we would be even better with Simmons.

4. Right, every statistical measure for his career as well as the on court performance when it comes to winning but its all just speculation. Im sick of this moronic view that every guy on the floor has to be a 3 point threat or the lane is crammed and offenses grind to a halt. Why on earth would the nets sign an unplayable guy like Jordan? Dont they know his mere presence on the court means no more driving lanes for Durant/Harden/Irving? What sorcery do the Hawks employ with Capela that allows lanes for Trae Young? I am so sick of people repeating this idiotic take which is proven to be wrong by nearly every team in the NBA. Yes, you can have a non shooter and be an elite offense, sorry if that reality messes up your argument. Having the best shooting C in the game simply means we are an even BETTER fit for a guy like Simmons. Please switch your big immobile non shooting center onto Ben cuz he cant shoot and watch him cut your team up.

5. Im the only one in this entire argument which actually provides statistical backing for my statements yet im the one basing it on emotion? This f*cking place lol. Theres not a better fit in the NBA than the wolves for Simmons, no team would be able to benefit more for what he does and compensate for what he doesnt do. No team needs what he brings as badly and would benefit in the win column as much as we would. Again, having the best shooting center in the game as well as 2 perimeter ball handler late game scorers is a PERFECT...absolutely PERFECT fit for Simmons. He fixes so many of our defensive woes while not stepping on the toes of our offensive players while still being a major offensive contributor.

Dont bother responding. If you could type what you have typed up until now I dont think I have much interest in hearing any more of your views.