Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[kuclas]

Maybe lesser players, but a disgrunted Simmons is losing value each second and Brooks + Anderson + Rondo is 2 + 1/2 starters for Philly... I see a better starting lineup for them with Curry/Milton/Rondo + Brooks + Anderson + Harris + Embiid...

So we can put this on the pile of "yeah, I know this isn't good value but you have to deal him and you have to deal him to *my* team because reasons so here's some guys we don't need" offers then?

I'd honestly like to send a check to the mods for the containment thread.

Guys Memphis doesn't need ? Brooks and Anderson are two starters for Memphis and would also be for Philadelphia. We can argue that Philly might would like to wait until mid season or hope that Simmons turns the situation around, or even hope for a Dame/Beal deal, but I feel that the value is not that far off and Philly would be better with Anderson /Brooks in the starting lineup.

For Memphis is not a clear home run in any case, Ja+Simmons+Adams are all questionable shooters and the bet would be for Simmons to fill Valanciunas rebounding numbers while aligning with JJJ and the other young players timeline.

Ben Simmons is not a center. People think he’s this 1-5 defender. It shows me that people don’t really watch Ben Simmons and just watch highlights or hear stuff about him. In a similar way the mental aspect of him refusing to shoot. It gets blown out of proportion.

On the flip side. They don’t get there is a reason he’s a 3x all star before age 25. 2 times all nba first team defense one time 3rd team all nba.

So thinking you can trade for Simmons on the low value. People just don’t understand what Simmons does. He’s the point guard. He rebounds. He defends 1-4 elite. He can score even if he can’t shoot. Just do to his sheer size and speed.

But thinking he can play center. No. Simmons is not a center. He can guard a center in a pinch. But there is a reason Embiid is the center and Dwight Howard was the backup center
Same as in previous years with other backup centers Sixers use.

So all this proves is teams don’t have an issue with Simmons contract
They are trying to buy low.

Which is further reason just to keep Simmons.

[uriah]

Ben Simmons is not a center. People think he’s this 1-5 defender. It shows me that people don’t really watch Ben Simmons and just watch highlights or hear stuff about him. In a similar way the mental aspect of him refusing to shoot. It gets blown out of proportion.

On the flip side. They don’t get there is a reason he’s a 3x all star before age 25. 2 times all nba first team defense one time 3rd team all nba.

So thinking you can trade for Simmons on the low value. People just don’t understand what Simmons does. He’s the point guard. He rebounds. He defends 1-4 elite. He can score even if he can’t shoot. Just do to his sheer size and speed.

But thinking he can play center. No. Simmons is not a center. He can guard a center in a pinch. But there is a reason Embiid is the center and Dwight Howard was the backup center
Same as in previous years with other backup centers Sixers use.

So all this proves is teams don’t have an issue with Simmons contract
They are trying to buy low.

Which is further reason just to keep Simmons.

I never said that Simmons was a Center or that his role would be a interior player for Memphis, in fact in my initial post I stated that the role for Simmons in Memphis would be a 2/3 playmaker to go along with Ja (and hopefully his rebounding numbers would even JJJ's low rebounding numbers) :

Why for Memphis ?. Grizzlies bet on Simmons to form a premium playmaking duo with Morant. Shooting in the starting lineup would be a big hole so Bane should step up at the SG spot.

J. Morant / D.Bane / B.Simmons / JJackson Jr / S. Adams
(T. Jones) / (D.Melton / (Z.Williams) / (B. Clarke) / (X. Tillman)

Otherwise, all your points are valid and I undestand Phillys point of view on the low value issue, the logical move for them would be to just wait and hope for a better/good enought offer to show up... My point was just that I personally view a Rondo/Curry/Milton + Brooks + KAnderson + Harris + Embiid lineup as an upgrade in scoring, shooting with also better bench quality and equally strong defense.

[kuclas]

Ben Simmons is not a center. People think he’s this 1-5 defender. It shows me that people don’t really watch Ben Simmons and just watch highlights or hear stuff about him. In a similar way the mental aspect of him refusing to shoot. It gets blown out of proportion.

On the flip side. They don’t get there is a reason he’s a 3x all star before age 25. 2 times all nba first team defense one time 3rd team all nba.

So thinking you can trade for Simmons on the low value. People just don’t understand what Simmons does. He’s the point guard. He rebounds. He defends 1-4 elite. He can score even if he can’t shoot. Just do to his sheer size and speed.

But thinking he can play center. No. Simmons is not a center. He can guard a center in a pinch. But there is a reason Embiid is the center and Dwight Howard was the backup center
Same as in previous years with other backup centers Sixers use.

So all this proves is teams don’t have an issue with Simmons contract
They are trying to buy low.

Which is further reason just to keep Simmons.

I never said that Simmons was a Center or that his role would be a interior player for Memphis, in fact in my initial post I stated that the role for Simmons in Memphis would be a 2/3 playmaker to go along with Ja (and hopefully his rebounding numbers would even JJJ's low rebounding numbers) :

Why for Memphis ?. Grizzlies bet on Simmons to form a premium playmaking duo with Morant. Shooting in the starting lineup would be a big hole so Bane should step up at the SG spot.

J. Morant / D.Bane / B.Simmons / JJackson Jr / S. Adams
(T. Jones) / (D.Melton / (Z.Williams) / (B. Clarke) / (X. Tillman)

Otherwise, all your points are valid and I undestand Phillys point of view on the low value issue, the logical move for them would be to just wait and hope for a better/good enought offer to show up... My point was just that I personally view a Rondo/Curry/Milton + Brooks + KAnderson + Harris + Embiid lineup as an upgrade in scoring, shooting with also better bench quality and equally strong defense.

That lineup is fine for the regular season. The lineup with Simmons/Embiid for regular season is even better. Frankly any Embiid lineup assuming he's healthy will net the Sixers 50 plus wins. But he's bound to miss 20 games a season.

The Sixers issues are the closing stretches of playoff games. They need a closer when Embiid is out of gas. And that's why trading a bunch of role players for simmons does nothing to fix the sixers problems.

[GutUNC]

Maybe lesser players, but a disgrunted Simmons is losing value each second and Brooks + Anderson + Rondo is 2 + 1/2 starters for Philly... I see a better starting lineup for them with Curry/Milton/Rondo + Brooks + Anderson + Harris + Embiid...

So we can put this on the pile of "yeah, I know this isn't good value but you have to deal him and you have to deal him to *my* team because reasons so here's some guys we don't need" offers then?

I'd honestly like to send a check to the mods for the containment thread.

Guys Memphis doesn't need ? Brooks and Anderson are two starters for Memphis and would also be for Philadelphia. We can argue that Philly might would like to wait until mid season or hope that Simmons turns the situation around, or even hope for a Dame/Beal deal, but I feel that the value is not that far off and Philly would be better with Anderson /Brooks in the starting lineup.

For Memphis is not a clear home run in any case, Ja+Simmons+Adams are all questionable shooters and the bet would be for Simmons to fill Valanciunas rebounding numbers while aligning with JJJ and the other young players timeline.

As opposed to the 3 guys you're trading who are.....all questionable shooters.

So you have the Sixers downgrading defensively, downgrading in a HUGE manor in playmaking and rebounding, all so they can replace Simmons 16 PPG without a jump shot for 3 guys who's shooting ranges from bad to below average. You've managed to downgrade talent while making it MORE difficult for Embiid to operate and adding no futures. Just stop.

[mademan]

I get his value has dropped, but Brooks/Anderson/Rondo is a hilariously poor offer and, yes, it is an absolute no brainer from the Grizz. Save for Simmons balking at going there and threatening to hold out (at which point, why even make an offer), Memphis takes it and runs.

[DWhiteMamba]

With Jimmy butler it was 100% Always about the max max money guarantee. It’s a pride thing with jimmy. He wants respect. The only way to get respect from jimmy is to pay the man.

It’s no secret Minnesota giving Wiggins the max extension pissed butler off. Especially with Wiggins play and lack of passion.

Than Sixers. I truly believe due to butler age (turning 30 in sept 2019). During the free agent period. Sixers did not initially offer butler the full 5 year/190 max. Look at woj reports. They didn’t want to be paying a 34 year old butler max money for a 5th year.

The lack of 5th year max was a sign of disrespect from Jimmy. That set him off. Now I’m sure other reports said Sixers offer the max. But I truly believe woj initial report there was no true guarantee 5/190 max no gimmicks offered initially. Maybe they scrambled after they found out he decided to go to Miami than offered it to him.

Than every thing go out of control with lack of real GM (Elton brand Brett brown) scramble and over paid Harris almost the full max 5/180 than the al Horford over pay (with partial guarantee 4th year)

Considering the Horford partial guarantee stipulations. I have no doubt Sixers tried to do the same to butler (partial guarantee fifth season). I do not think the initial offer was a fully guarantee 5 year max.

I think because you're a sixer fan you might not understand the timing here. The Wolves had no ability to extend Butler yet. He had 2 years left on his deal, and the only mechanism the rules provided to do so was a renegotiate and extend... which the Wolves couldn't do, because they had no cap... which had been the case before Jimmy was traded there and he and his agent should have known that. The Wiggins contract also predated Jimmy's time there, so Jimmy's anger seems absurd. He's angry because the rules don't allow him to get the max extension the Wolves are no doubt dying to give him, and because of a contract they signed before he even got there? Huh? Maybe he should have had a go at Miami for overpaying Brian Grant back in the day, or Philly for the Moses Malone trade. Then the response to this apparent "lack of respect" is to demand a trade to only NY or LA? Then when they find a team you'll agree to go to after 2 months of this saga going on, it's another pretty big market, and when you leave that team it's to go to Miami beach. I dunno man, it seems like this disrespect thing is something Butler just tells himself to sleep at night. It seems like he just wanted a bigger, sexier market than Minny. Does anyone in their right mind think Minny isn't maxing Butler? They just made the playoffs for the first time in forever, and they maxed Wiggins!

The Philly thing was complex, but Butler basically said from the exit interview he knew he wasn't coming back. I genuinely think he wasn't signing back there no matter what they did, though I agree Brand was an idiot for not immediately recognising Butler was the way to go and offering the max.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Fox for Simmons, then Bagley, filler for Lauri.

Hali/Buddy/Barnes/Simmons/Lauri

[E S V L]

Fox for Simmons, then Bagley, filler for Lauri.

Hali/Buddy/Barnes/Simmons/Lauri

My counteroffer:

SAC gets Brooks, Anderson, Clarke, expirings, 2 1sts
PHI gets Fox
MEM gets Simmons, Hield

Sacramento would become #1 defense team in the NBA history with Mitchell-Hali-Brooks-Kyle-Holmes.

[HartfordWhalers]

Nothing against Brooks, but I think the defensive argument would favor Simmons.

[mademan]

Fox for Simmons, then Bagley, filler for Lauri.

Hali/Buddy/Barnes/Simmons/Lauri

My counteroffer:

SAC gets Brooks, Anderson, Clarke, expirings, 2 1sts
PHI gets Fox
MEM gets Simmons, Hield

Sacramento would become #1 defense team in the NBA history with Mitchell-Hali-Brooks-Kyle-Holmes.

Thats an undersized team, it wouldnt even be the best defense in the league let alone history. And Sactown isnt paying for Simmons and taking role players/1st rounders instead. This is a squad that hasnt made the playoffs in 15 years; if they need to chose between those 2 packages, they take the star every time.

As an aside, someones gonna have to explain to me Dillon Brooks really having any value. He's just not a good offensive player, and only has 17ppg because he fires it up 15 times a game. Im not sure why he's anything more than filler in trades

[E S V L]

Fox for Simmons, then Bagley, filler for Lauri.

Hali/Buddy/Barnes/Simmons/Lauri

My counteroffer:

SAC gets Brooks, Anderson, Clarke, expirings, 2 1sts
PHI gets Fox
MEM gets Simmons, Hield

Sacramento would become #1 defense team in the NBA history with Mitchell-Hali-Brooks-Kyle-Holmes.

Thats an undersized team, it wouldnt even be the best defense in the league let alone history. And Sactown isnt paying for Simmons and taking role players/1st rounders instead. This is a squad that hasnt made the playoffs in 15 years; if they need to chose between those 2 packages, they take the star every time.

As an aside, someones gonna have to explain to me Dillon Brooks really having any value. He's just not a good offensive player, and only has 17ppg because he fires it up 15 times a game. Im not sure why he's anything more than filler in trades

I defer to your judgement on your team strategy, but if you want to know more about DB, always feel free to ask. This guy is a “Mitchell type” beast on defense and needs no assistance to deliver 20 pts per game. He is a high character, tough guy taking tough shots when everyone is hesitant or struggling. He doesn’t care about stats - that’s the man’s attitude he is respected and blamed for at the same time. Him and Mitchell in one team - oh... the opposing team would be happy to go over 60pts per game.

[Myth]

Since this is a new spin, I’m not sure what picks are needed and where they need to go, so consider this a framework rather than a final proposal.

76ers in:
Fox

Out:
Simmons

Reason: There is debate on this board who is better between Fox and Simmons, but there shouldn’t be much debate that Fox is a better fit on the 76ers, and Fox would be a good get given the pressure to trade Simmons.

Portland in:
Barnes
Hield

Out:
CJ McCollum
Derrick Jones Jr
Pick (just not sure if it should go to Kings or 76ers)

Reason: Balances roster and shows Lillard they are serious about trying to get help. Portland badly needs another F and this does that, while giving Portland a sharp shooting 6th man in Hield. Not the defense Portland craves, but a more balanced roster and overall talent upgrade at the same time.

Kings in:
Simmons
CJ
DJJ

Out:
Fox
Hield
Barnes

Reason:
Bump Halliburton to the starting lineup with Simmons and CJ as running mates. New look starting lineup: Halliburton/CJ/Simmons/Bagley/Holmes. Jones Jr is only here to make the trade legal salary wise.

[BullyKing]

Since this is a new spin, I’m not sure what picks are needed and where they need to go, so consider this a framework rather than a final proposal.

76ers in:
Fox

Out:
Simmons

Reason: There is debate on this board who is better between Fox and Simmons, but there shouldn’t be much debate that Fox is a better fit on the 76ers, and Fox would be a good get given the pressure to trade Simmons.

Portland in:
Barnes
Hield

Out:
CJ McCollum
Derrick Jones Jr
Pick (just not sure if it should go to Kings or 76ers)

Reason: Balances roster and shows Lillard they are serious about trying to get help. Portland badly needs another F and this does that, while giving Portland a sharp shooting 6th man in Hield. Not the defense Portland craves, but a more balanced roster and overall talent upgrade at the same time.

Kings in:
Simmons
CJ
DJJ

Out:
Fox
Hield
Barnes

Reason:
Bump Halliburton to the starting lineup with Simmons and CJ as running mates. New look starting lineup: Halliburton/CJ/Simmons/Bagley/Holmes. Jones Jr is only here to make the trade legal salary wise.

Moved this to the Simmons thread but I think this is pretty reasonable all around.

[Darthlukey]

So we can put this on the pile of "yeah, I know this isn't good value but you have to deal him and you have to deal him to *my* team because reasons so here's some guys we don't need" offers then?

I'd honestly like to send a check to the mods for the containment thread.

Guys Memphis doesn't need ? Brooks and Anderson are two starters for Memphis and would also be for Philadelphia. We can argue that Philly might would like to wait until mid season or hope that Simmons turns the situation around, or even hope for a Dame/Beal deal, but I feel that the value is not that far off and Philly would be better with Anderson /Brooks in the starting lineup.

For Memphis is not a clear home run in any case, Ja+Simmons+Adams are all questionable shooters and the bet would be for Simmons to fill Valanciunas rebounding numbers while aligning with JJJ and the other young players timeline.

Ben Simmons is not a center. People think he’s this 1-5 defender. It shows me that people don’t really watch Ben Simmons and just watch highlights or hear stuff about him. In a similar way the mental aspect of him refusing to shoot. It gets blown out of proportion.

On the flip side. They don’t get there is a reason he’s a 3x all star before age 25. 2 times all nba first team defense one time 3rd team all nba.

So thinking you can trade for Simmons on the low value. People just don’t understand what Simmons does. He’s the point guard. He rebounds. He defends 1-4 elite. He can score even if he can’t shoot. Just do to his sheer size and speed.

But thinking he can play center. No. Simmons is not a center. He can guard a center in a pinch. But there is a reason Embiid is the center and Dwight Howard was the backup center
Same as in previous years with other backup centers Sixers use.

So all this proves is teams don’t have an issue with Simmons contract
They are trying to buy low.

Which is further reason just to keep Simmons.

Not that I advocate for selling low ever, but the time to sell Simmons high was 12-24 months ago. Now the leverage is up in the air. Going to be interesting to see how this one resolves itself.

[Darthlukey]

Since this is a new spin, I’m not sure what picks are needed and where they need to go, so consider this a framework rather than a final proposal.

76ers in:
Fox

Out:
Simmons

Reason: There is debate on this board who is better between Fox and Simmons, but there shouldn’t be much debate that Fox is a better fit on the 76ers, and Fox would be a good get given the pressure to trade Simmons.

Portland in:
Barnes
Hield

Out:
CJ McCollum
Derrick Jones Jr
Pick (just not sure if it should go to Kings or 76ers)

Reason: Balances roster and shows Lillard they are serious about trying to get help. Portland badly needs another F and this does that, while giving Portland a sharp shooting 6th man in Hield. Not the defense Portland craves, but a more balanced roster and overall talent upgrade at the same time.

Kings in:
Simmons
CJ
DJJ

Out:
Fox
Hield
Barnes

Reason:
Bump Halliburton to the starting lineup with Simmons and CJ as running mates. New look starting lineup: Halliburton/CJ/Simmons/Bagley/Holmes. Jones Jr is only here to make the trade legal salary wise.

I think portland views CJ much more highly than Barnes/Buddy

[MoneyTalks41890]

Since this is a new spin, I’m not sure what picks are needed and where they need to go, so consider this a framework rather than a final proposal.

76ers in:
Fox

Out:
Simmons

Reason: There is debate on this board who is better between Fox and Simmons, but there shouldn’t be much debate that Fox is a better fit on the 76ers, and Fox would be a good get given the pressure to trade Simmons.

Portland in:
Barnes
Hield

Out:
CJ McCollum
Derrick Jones Jr
Pick (just not sure if it should go to Kings or 76ers)

Reason: Balances roster and shows Lillard they are serious about trying to get help. Portland badly needs another F and this does that, while giving Portland a sharp shooting 6th man in Hield. Not the defense Portland craves, but a more balanced roster and overall talent upgrade at the same time.

Kings in:
Simmons
CJ
DJJ

Out:
Fox
Hield
Barnes

Reason:
Bump Halliburton to the starting lineup with Simmons and CJ as running mates. New look starting lineup: Halliburton/CJ/Simmons/Bagley/Holmes. Jones Jr is only here to make the trade legal salary wise.

I think portland views CJ much more highly than Barnes/Buddy

They really shouldn’t.

[Myth]

Since this is a new spin, I’m not sure what picks are needed and where they need to go, so consider this a framework rather than a final proposal.

76ers in:
Fox

Out:
Simmons

Reason: There is debate on this board who is better between Fox and Simmons, but there shouldn’t be much debate that Fox is a better fit on the 76ers, and Fox would be a good get given the pressure to trade Simmons.

Portland in:
Barnes
Hield

Out:
CJ McCollum
Derrick Jones Jr
Pick (just not sure if it should go to Kings or 76ers)

Reason: Balances roster and shows Lillard they are serious about trying to get help. Portland badly needs another F and this does that, while giving Portland a sharp shooting 6th man in Hield. Not the defense Portland craves, but a more balanced roster and overall talent upgrade at the same time.

Kings in:
Simmons
CJ
DJJ

Out:
Fox
Hield
Barnes

Reason:
Bump Halliburton to the starting lineup with Simmons and CJ as running mates. New look starting lineup: Halliburton/CJ/Simmons/Bagley/Holmes. Jones Jr is only here to make the trade legal salary wise.

I think portland views CJ much more highly than Barnes/Buddy

I think they view him higher than either individually. But to get Barnes who goes straight to the starting lineup, slide Powell down to SG to guard players his size, while still keeping Portland extremely lethal from the 3 would be a good move IMO. I think this also makes Simons more expendable, who we can try to trade for another defensive role players or true backup PG.

[scottyg]

I can see Simmons as a center if Mike Antoni is the coach!

[Godaddycurse]

Cleveland In: Adams, Brooks, Hermangomez
Cleveland out: Love, Sexton

Philly In: Rondo, Anderson, Sexton, 2022 Utah 1st, 2024 GSW 1st
Philly out: Simmons

Memphis out: Adams, Brooks, Anderson, Hermangomez, Rondo, 2022 Utah 1st, 2024 GSW 1st
Memphis in: Love, Simmons

JJJ/Tillman
Love/Clarke
Simmons/Williams
Bane/Melton
Morant/Jones

Embiid/Drummond
Harris/Niang
Anderson/Green
Sexton/Thybulle
Maxey/Rondo

Allen/Adams
Mobley/Nance Jr
Brooks/Osman
Okoro/Windler
Garland/Rubio

Why for Cleveland: Get a better fit in Brooks. People seem to value Sexton more so they get out of some of Love's money next year for the swap
Why for Philly: get a scoring guard to compliment embiid and a 2 way wing to replace simmon's defense (to an extent). Picks to balance the difference
Why for Memphis: consolidate assets for another young star

[zimpy27]

Cleveland In: Adams, Brooks, Hermangomez
Cleveland out: Love, Sexton

Philly In: Rondo, Anderson, Sexton, 2022 Utah 1st, 2024 GSW 1st
Philly out: Simmons

Memphis out: Adams, Brooks, Anderson, Hermangomez, Rondo, 2022 Utah 1st, 2024 GSW 1st
Memphis in: Love, Simmons

JJJ/Tillman
Love/Clarke
Simmons/Williams
Bane/Melton
Morant/Jones

Embiid/Drummond
Harris/Niang
Anderson/Green
Sexton/Thybulle
Maxey/Rondo

Allen/Adams
Mobley/Nance Jr
Brooks/Osman
Okoro/Windler
Garland/Rubio

Why for Cleveland: Get a better fit in Brooks. People seem to value Sexton more so they get out of some of Love's money next year for the swap
Why for Philly: get a scoring guard to compliment embiid and a 2 way wing to replace simmon's defense (to an extent). Picks to balance the difference
Why for Memphis: consolidate assets for another young star

I like the trade.

Cavs fans don't like the idea of losing value on Sexton by moving him with Love but I think this trade makes a lot of sense for their team and they get to keep Nance. I like the idea of moving Love+Sexton in a trade to a team that takes on Simmons, even with a different team than Memphis.