The Trey Lance thread

[thesack12]

Very nice, bounceback TD drive from Trey in the 2 minute drill just before halftime.

[Jikkle]

Started ugly but he finished strong.

Once he settled down he really settled down and his passes were on target and he was much more decisive in his decision-making.

I'd still put him firmly in the mix to start week 1 because even with the highs and lows it's looking like he gives the team the best chance to win.

Jimmy did not play great and hasn't really had a great camp so I'm inclined to ride those highs and lows with Lance because of how much he could open up the offense in terms of the running game and even the passing game. I don't think it would be terrible if he sits so I'm fine if they go with Jimmy week 1.

[Jikkle]

Read on Twitter

When Lance is on he's really on and plays like this give do get you excited.

[Pattersonca65]

Started ugly but he finished strong.

Once he settled down he really settled down and his passes were on target and he was much more decisive in his decision-making.

I'd still put him firmly in the mix to start week 1 because even with the highs and lows it's looking like he gives the team the best chance to win.

Jimmy did not play great and hasn't really had a great camp so I'm inclined to ride those highs and lows with Lance because of how much he could open up the offense in terms of the running game and even the passing game. I don't think it would be terrible if he sits so I'm fine if they go with Jimmy week 1.

Jimmy has hardly played during the preaseason. Jimmy is what he is. One pass was a bit hogh that was picked. Lance was not good with the starters. He had muçitple passes sail high. One pass was picked off and another could have been. He was also throwing passes at 200mph and rushed passes he didnt need to be. He also missed a checkdown which resulted in a sack for a six yard loss. He has to become more condiztent and not start games like that. What he did against the scrubs doesnt offset that

[Cactus Jack]

Started ugly but he finished strong.

Once he settled down he really settled down and his passes were on target and he was much more decisive in his decision-making.

I'd still put him firmly in the mix to start week 1 because even with the highs and lows it's looking like he gives the team the best chance to win.

Jimmy did not play great and hasn't really had a great camp so I'm inclined to ride those highs and lows with Lance because of how much he could open up the offense in terms of the running game and even the passing game. I don't think it would be terrible if he sits so I'm fine if they go with Jimmy week 1.

Jimmy has hardly played during the preaseason. Jimmy is what he is. One pass was a bit hogh that was picked. Lance was not good with the starters. He had muçitple passes sail high. One pass was picked off and another could have been. He was also throwing passes at 200mph and rushed passes he didnt need to be. He also missed a checkdown which resulted in a sack for a six yard loss. He has to become more condiztent and not start games like that. What he did against the scrubs doesnt offset that

Apparently PFF agrees with you!

Read on Twitter

I do think Mac Jones has looked quite impressive so far. Just based off the eye test alone.

[CrimsonCrew]

Watched the game starting when Lance came in while cooking dinner, so wasn't watching like a hawk. In general, some more positives for Lance, and some more things that need work. Some of my thoughts:

He's not a natural thrower of the football. He can absolutely deliver a strike at times, but he hasn't shown an ability to do it consistently. When he's nervous, his mechanics erode and he tends to throw hard and high, which is problematic. We've just got to hope that he continues to work on it and improve. And he'll get more comfortable the more he plays. I don't worry all that much about his development. From what I've seen, I think there will come a time at which it clicks - at least the mental piece; I'm not at all confident he'll ever be a consistently accurate thrower of the football - but who knows when that will be.

In terms of the positives, once he settled down, he threw the ball pretty well, including the two-minute drive and the TD to Benjamin. He showed off his ability to extend plays and make plays with his legs. He's got the talent, it's just a matter of putting it all together. I didn't see Garoppolo's INT, but I didn't feel that Lance's should have been dropped. It was a bit high, but it was basically at the crown of Sanu's helmet. Sanu didn't even really have to extend for it. Even with some mustard on it, Sanu should have brought it in.

Relative to the other rookie QBs, it's worth remembering that he is much less experienced facing NFL-style defenses than these other guys, and was basically away from the game for a year while they were playing. Because he's not as natural a thrower as the other guys, the mental piece is more important for him. Despite his ability to run the scramble drill, he's more of a structured players than a guy like Fields. He wants to run the offense the way it is supposed to be run, but he's not there yet.

Perhaps more significantly, he's playing in a famously complex system that usually takes players - even experienced NFL QBs - two or three years to really master. And there is no indication that they're dumbing it down for him. Additionally, while other coaching staffs have shown signs of wanting to ease their rookie QBs in by letting them do the things they are most comfortable with, ours has almost done the opposite. We aren't really running the option run game. We aren't really rolling him out and getting him on the move much. He's being asked to play from the pocket, go through progressions, and make things happen.

Ultimately, I was mostly encouraged by what I saw. I'm not sure he's ready to start, but I wouldn't hate it if he did because he brings so much more versatility than Garoppolo. But I think he's picking it up.

[CrimsonCrew]

And speaking of pre-season football, two baffling exchanges related to grounding by Papa and Ryan. First, Lance was way out of the pocket and threw it out of bounds well past the sticks, and they were concerned about grounding. I was like, "Did they change the rules and I missed it?"

Later, he threw the dangerous ball to Richie James, I think, and they were again talking grounding. James was right there.

Players aren't the only ones who have to get in game shape, apparently.

[a8bil]

Lance has shown interesting passing skills so far. On the long pass to Sherfield he literally lofted the ball in so that Sherfield could catch it on the run. That's a pass where I would have expect Lance to be amped up and throw it harder. That to me is a very promising pass. He had others, however, where they were reminiscent of Kaep...thrown way to hard and not leading the receiver. Yeah, it's the NFL and receivers have to make their catches, but in an offense that relies heavily on YAC, having a QB who throws a catchable ball that allows receiver to run into the reception is pretty important. Positive and negatives to take away from that game.

[Bingo_AlphaMan]

TREY LANCE
QB, SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS

Trey Lance completed 8-of-14 passes for 102 yards, two touchdowns, and one interception in the 49ers' second preseason game against the Chargers.

As was the case in his first preseason game, Lance showed why the 49ers took him with the No. 3 pick while periodically looking like an FCS quarterback who played one game in 2020. Lance entered the game after a Jimmy Garoppolo interception but didn't fare much better. His first drive ended with a missed throw to Deebo Samuel while his second outing resulted in an interception. Playing into the second half, Lance closed his day with two touchdown throws between his final three drives. He added one rush for eight yards on the ground. It's tough to say whether this performance made Lance more or less likely to start Week 1, but it did serve as another showcase of the rookie's upside. Lance will be an instant QB1 once Kyle Shanahan anoints him the starter.

Aug 22, 2021, 10:16 PM ET

[CrimsonCrew]

Good breakdown of Trey Lance's game, mostly focused on the INT and his bounce back. He sure seems to already be doing some of that higher-level reading, but even more so, manipulation of the D with his eyes. If he can continue to develop that, he should be good even with some inconsistent accuracy.

[tweet]

Watch on YouTube

;t=301s[/tweet]

[arich35]

Guy hasn't played much in the last two years, think it is going to take some time to get that rust off.

[thesack12]

I personally don't think Lance starting week 1 has ever really been a semi serious consideration.

As has been discussed, Trey is still VERY green, hasn't been exposed to high level competition for any significant sample sizes, and has played in only 1 game that mattered in almost 2 years.

You are asking a TON from Lance, to ask him to go out there week 1 and pilot a super bowl contending team. If you throw him out there on day 1 and he struggles out of the gate, you run the risk of damaging his confidence and psyche. There is already enough pressure on him simply due to his draft pedigree, and the significant part of their future that the team gave up to go get him. If he struggles, there is going to be a outcry from the fanbase and media becoming Lance detractors.

Looking at it another way, if you roll with Jimmy and he struggles not only will nobody bat an eye when he gets benched for Lance but it will actually excite 9er nation. On the flip side if you roll with Lance day 1, you can't really go backwards by benching Lance in favor of Jimmy. Lynchahan would get absolutely roasted if they made that move. By doing that Lynchahan would be admitting a mistake. Whether that mistake was inserting Lance before he was ready, or that mistake being they made a bad call moving all that draft capital to go draft lance. Both those scenarios will get thrown in their faces relentlessly. And again, if you bench Trey you run the risk of damaging his confidence/psyche.

On top of all this both Lynch and Shanahan, currently have comfortable contract situations. So they can afford to be patient, and develop Trey organically.

I don't think Lance will become the starter this year, unless 1 of 3 things happen.

1) The team falls out of contention, and the season becomes lost
2) Jimmy gets hurt again
3) Jimmy just has a colossal meltdown in play/production

The Trey Lance plan/experience is something that will hopefully last 10+ years. We need to remember to consider the long view here. Its much more important for the team and Trey himself, to consider whats best for him next year and beyond as opposed to week 1 against the Lions.

[Jikkle]

I'm of the mindset he should start week 1.

He's raw and it'll be bumpy at first but I just feel the issues he has are best addressed with game reps and experience.

He could grow from the bench so I don't hate the idea that he sits but I feel he'll grow more and develop faster playing.

The roster has Super Bowl aspirations but I have little confidence in Jimmy G to lead this team to the Super Bowl and win it. Yes he did in 2019 but he was a bystander in most of the playoffs and the division is much tougher in this season compared to 19 so I just don't think we can ride the 2019 formula to win it all. It's not just our division but Tampa has a great defense, the Packers are a better team than they were in 19, and the NFC is just overall better than it was in 19.

With that said any reps that Jimmy G a guy who isn't on the team after this season takes are a waste and the sooner Lance plays in games and starts to grow the better long term. And long term isn't limited to beyond this season because I feel if he starts week 1 by the time week 18 and the playoffs roll around he'd make some noticeable strides in his play.

[Jikkle]

Interesting pair of stats from PFF:

Read on Twitter

To add to the accuracy stats:

Read on Twitter

[CrimsonCrew]

I'm of the mindset he should start week 1.

He's raw and it'll be bumpy at first but I just feel the issues he has are best addressed with game reps and experience.

He could grow from the bench so I don't hate the idea that he sits but I feel he'll grow more and develop faster playing.

The roster has Super Bowl aspirations but I have little confidence in Jimmy G to lead this team to the Super Bowl and win it. Yes he did in 2019 but he was a bystander in most of the playoffs and the division is much tougher in this season compared to 19 so I just don't think we can ride the 2019 formula to win it all. It's not just our division but Tampa has a great defense, the Packers are a better team than they were in 19, and the NFC is just overall better than it was in 19.

With that said any reps that Jimmy G a guy who isn't on the team after this season takes are a waste and the sooner Lance plays in games and starts to grow the better long term. And long term isn't limited to beyond this season because I feel if he starts week 1 by the time week 18 and the playoffs roll around he'd make some noticeable strides in his play.

I tend to agree. Lance's shortcomings appear to be the type that he'll need to play to iron out. He needs to work on his internal clock, on working through progressions quickly, on trusting his eyes (avoiding the double-clutch on the INT this week, for instance), on moving in - and, if necessary, fleeing - the pocket. He can develop those to a degree from the sideline, but not nearly to the same extent that he can if he's actually in games. He seems to be a quick study, and not inclined to repeat the same mistake over and over (like some other QBs I could name....), so hopefully as the season progresses, he begins to operate at a high level.

The other concern is that, once the regular season begins, the backup QB just doesn't get the snaps that he needs to develop. He's often relegated to running the scout team. You'd hope with a guy like Lance, Shanahan would break from custom a bit, but then you're taking snaps away from the starter, which is also problematic.

[Jikkle]

I'm of the mindset he should start week 1.

He's raw and it'll be bumpy at first but I just feel the issues he has are best addressed with game reps and experience.

He could grow from the bench so I don't hate the idea that he sits but I feel he'll grow more and develop faster playing.

The roster has Super Bowl aspirations but I have little confidence in Jimmy G to lead this team to the Super Bowl and win it. Yes he did in 2019 but he was a bystander in most of the playoffs and the division is much tougher in this season compared to 19 so I just don't think we can ride the 2019 formula to win it all. It's not just our division but Tampa has a great defense, the Packers are a better team than they were in 19, and the NFC is just overall better than it was in 19.

With that said any reps that Jimmy G a guy who isn't on the team after this season takes are a waste and the sooner Lance plays in games and starts to grow the better long term. And long term isn't limited to beyond this season because I feel if he starts week 1 by the time week 18 and the playoffs roll around he'd make some noticeable strides in his play.

I tend to agree. Lance's shortcomings appear to be the type that he'll need to play to iron out. He needs to work on his internal clock, on working through progressions quickly, on trusting his eyes (avoiding the double-clutch on the INT this week, for instance), on moving in - and, if necessary, fleeing - the pocket. He can develop those to a degree from the sideline, but not nearly to the same extent that he can if he's actually in games. He seems to be a quick study, and not inclined to repeat the same mistake over and over (like some other QBs I could name....), so hopefully as the season progresses, he begins to operate at a high level.

The other concern is that, once the regular season begins, the backup QB just doesn't get the snaps that he needs to develop. He's often relegated to running the scout team. You'd hope with a guy like Lance, Shanahan would break from custom a bit, but then you're taking snaps away from the starter, which is also problematic.

Yeah to me and I could be wrong he doesn't seem like he's struggling to read the field and knowing what to do but second guessing and not trusting what his eyes tell him.

He doesn't give off that deer in the headlights and panic because he doesn't know what to do vibe but sees it's open but has that one second of wondering if it's really open vibe because the fact he double clutches suggest that he wanted to throw it but stopped himself.

The other thing I'd add is what he's doing in the preseason isn't exactly what he'd do in the regular season. We'll see a ton more bootlegs, play action, and zone reads if it was a regular season game and what Shanahan is doing is having Lance work on in preseason is the area of his game that's going to take time to develop.

To me the forumla is have Lance start week 1 and give him the Russell Wilson treatment. Have a strong running game and defense then play to Lance's strengths and have him be a game manager for a season or two and the more he develops the more you expand on what you ask him to do. Keep his attempts in that 20ish to 25ish range, take a couple of deep shots to scare defenses, and run him just enough that defenses have no choice to respect it.

[thesack12]

I'm just not seeing the plan being Lance starting week 1.

To me if that was the plan, we wouldn't have seen Lance come out of either of the 2 preseason games. Trey would be getting every available snap.

Hell, against the Chiefs Rosen had more pass attempts (15) than Lance did (14.) Playing Rosen most of the 3rd, and all of the 4th quarter wouldn't make much sense if you are trying to get your super inexperienced rookie ready to start week 1. Then they proceeded to cut Rosen, like the next day so his development obviously was not on their priority list.

If Trey is starting week 1, I don't really see the point in playing Sudfeld at all against the Chargers. The only way that would make sense to me, is if that plan involved trading or cutting Jimmy very soon, thus making Sudfeld the backup so he would need some live reps.

Also, this year there are only 3 preseason games. Which again, leads me to believe that if Trey was slotted in as the week 1 starter, he would be getting pretty much all of the pre-season snaps. There just isn't much time to get him up to speed.

Lance also hasn't really been getting that many reps with the 1's in practice either.

I wouldn't be shocked if Lance becomes the starter at some point this season, but I don't think we will see that week 1. In my opinion, short of Jimmy getting hurt, the earliest we will see Trey start is week 7 (after the week 6 bye.)

[CrimsonCrew]

I'm just not seeing the plan being Lance starting week 1.

To me if that was the plan, we wouldn't have seen Lance come out of either of the 2 preseason games. Trey would be getting every available snap.

Hell, against the Chiefs Rosen had more pass attempts (15) than Lance did (14.) Playing Rosen most of the 3rd, and all of the 4th quarter wouldn't make much sense if you are trying to get your super inexperienced rookie ready to start week 1. Then they proceeded to cut Rosen, like the next day so his development obviously was not on their priority list.

If Trey is starting week 1, I don't really see the point in playing Sudfeld at all against the Chargers. The only way that would make sense to me, is if that plan involved trading or cutting Jimmy very soon, thus making Sudfeld the backup so he would need some live reps.

Also, this year there are only 3 preseason games. Which again, leads me to believe that if Trey was slotted in as the week 1 starter, he would be getting pretty much all of the pre-season snaps. There just isn't much time to get him up to speed.

Lance also hasn't really been getting that many reps with the 1's in practice either.

I wouldn't be shocked if Lance becomes the starter at some point this season, but I don't think we will see that week 1. In my opinion, short of Jimmy getting hurt, the earliest we will see Trey start is week 7 (after the week 6 bye.)

Re: the part in bold, I don't think that's the case. Arguably it should be, but we know Wilson is starting, and we're fairly confident Lawrence is, and neither of those guys has come close to dominating the snaps in the preseason. So I don't think we can read all that much into Lance having somewhat limited snaps. You don't want him in there with the third-string OL.

But I agree that the plan is not and never has been to start Lance week one. I think he's had some chances, and could have really forced the issue, but he hasn't decisively taken it away. I always felt - whether it's the right call or not - that Lance would have to convincingly beat out Garoppolo to earn the starting job from jump street, given what Garoppolo has done in the past. Nothing is set in stone, but I don't think Lance is going to get there.

[thesack12]

I'm just not seeing the plan being Lance starting week 1.

To me if that was the plan, we wouldn't have seen Lance come out of either of the 2 preseason games. Trey would be getting every available snap.

Hell, against the Chiefs Rosen had more pass attempts (15) than Lance did (14.) Playing Rosen most of the 3rd, and all of the 4th quarter wouldn't make much sense if you are trying to get your super inexperienced rookie ready to start week 1. Then they proceeded to cut Rosen, like the next day so his development obviously was not on their priority list.

If Trey is starting week 1, I don't really see the point in playing Sudfeld at all against the Chargers. The only way that would make sense to me, is if that plan involved trading or cutting Jimmy very soon, thus making Sudfeld the backup so he would need some live reps.

Also, this year there are only 3 preseason games. Which again, leads me to believe that if Trey was slotted in as the week 1 starter, he would be getting pretty much all of the pre-season snaps. There just isn't much time to get him up to speed.

Lance also hasn't really been getting that many reps with the 1's in practice either.

I wouldn't be shocked if Lance becomes the starter at some point this season, but I don't think we will see that week 1. In my opinion, short of Jimmy getting hurt, the earliest we will see Trey start is week 7 (after the week 6 bye.)

Re: the part in bold, I don't think that's the case. Arguably it should be, but we know Wilson is starting, and we're fairly confident Lawrence is, and neither of those guys has come close to dominating the snaps in the preseason. So I don't think we can read all that much into Lance having somewhat limited snaps. You don't want him in there with the third-string OL.

But I agree that the plan is not and never has been to start Lance week one. I think he's had some chances, and could have really forced the issue, but he hasn't decisively taken it away. I always felt - whether it's the right call or not - that Lance would have to convincingly beat out Garoppolo to earn the starting job from jump street, given what Garoppolo has done in the past. Nothing is set in stone, but I don't think Lance is going to get there.

Good point, however I'm not sure how many correlations we can draw from the Lawrence/Wilson comparisons. Urban has been pretty adament that there is a competition between Trevor and Minshew. While its up for debate how legitimate that competition actually is, Meyer has to give them a pretty even split of pre-season snaps in order to continue to push the notion that it is a competition.

Also, both the Jags and Jets don't project to be good teams this season. The main priority for both of their seasons' is to grow/develop their prized rookie QB's. Wins/losses will not be the main factor in evaluating their seasons. Its also worth noting that Wilson is getting all of the reps with the 1's in practice, and at worst Lawrence is getting 50% of them. Whereas from what we are hearing out of 9ers camp, it appears that Lance is only getting scraps running with the 1's.

Both Lawrence and Wilson also practiced all year and played college football as well. Whereas Lance has played in 1 game in almost 2 years.

[Pattersonca65]

I'm of the mindset he should start week 1.

He's raw and it'll be bumpy at first but I just feel the issues he has are best addressed with game reps and experience.

He could grow from the bench so I don't hate the idea that he sits but I feel he'll grow more and develop faster playing.

The roster has Super Bowl aspirations but I have little confidence in Jimmy G to lead this team to the Super Bowl and win it. Yes he did in 2019 but he was a bystander in most of the playoffs and the division is much tougher in this season compared to 19 so I just don't think we can ride the 2019 formula to win it all. It's not just our division but Tampa has a great defense, the Packers are a better team than they were in 19, and the NFC is just overall better than it was in 19.

With that said any reps that Jimmy G a guy who isn't on the team after this season takes are a waste and the sooner Lance plays in games and starts to grow the better long term. And long term isn't limited to beyond this season because I feel if he starts week 1 by the time week 18 and the playoffs roll around he'd make some noticeable strides in his play.

I tend to agree. Lance's shortcomings appear to be the type that he'll need to play to iron out. He needs to work on his internal clock, on working through progressions quickly, on trusting his eyes (avoiding the double-clutch on the INT this week, for instance), on moving in - and, if necessary, fleeing - the pocket. He can develop those to a degree from the sideline, but not nearly to the same extent that he can if he's actually in games. He seems to be a quick study, and not inclined to repeat the same mistake over and over (like some other QBs I could name....), so hopefully as the season progresses, he begins to operate at a high level.

The other concern is that, once the regular season begins, the backup QB just doesn't get the snaps that he needs to develop. He's often relegated to running the scout team. You'd hope with a guy like Lance, Shanahan would break from custom a bit, but then you're taking snaps away from the starter, which is also problematic.

Keep in mind it is preseason. It isn't only offenses playing vanilla and keeping things simple. Defenses are too. If Lance starts early no doubt defense coaches will do more to confuse Lance and try and capitalize on his inexperience.