2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[Barkley6]

Spoiler:

FLEX From Jersey (@FlexFromJersey) Tweeted:
Suns Season Predictions based on the Schedule release:
•62-20 Tied for Best record in Franchise History (92-93 Suns, 04-05 Suns)
•Pacific Division Champions
•#1 Seed in the Western Conference
•Best Record in the NBA

Suns have a chance to come out very strongly early! https://t.co/t9OFJcrb1b

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I think that's being a bit overly optimistic.
We had major luck with injuries last season as far as our own team health.
Paul played a TON and I don't expect him to play as much this go-round.
We will need to integrate 2 new regulars into the roster AND get used to no Dario for most of, if not all of, the season.

I think mid-50's is fair. If all goes right, 58-62 is fair.
If not, late 40's to early 50's, depending on what went wrong.

I agree that we were healthier than most, but I would also argue that we are deeper than most, and that we will have more internal development than most.

Also, Paul playing less makes sense, but we have two very capable backup PGs, and we also have a better backup SG in Shamet than we had in Galloway or Moore, which means possibly more rest for Booker as well. Less time for our stars, to me, actually reads as a good thing in terms of winning because it hopefully means they will be fresher for crunch time minutes.

CamJo, Mikal, And Ayton all figure to show reasonable improvement, which should make us a more difficult team to beat.

Remember also, we started last season 8-8 and still won over 50 games in a 72 game season, which means we only lost 13 games the rest of the way. I don't think we'll have a poor start like that again, which should help boost our overall win percentage. Personally, I think if we stay healthy, 60 wins is a pretty reasonable expectation, with the possibility to go higher, depending on how much better Bridges, CamJo and Ayton look.

Another thing to consider is the schedule, we should play Denver, LAC and GSW, 3 of the tougher teams in the West, 8 times before Murray, Kawhi and Klay are fully back, respectively. (Denver twice in first month, GSW 3 times from Nov 30-Dec 25, and the Clippers 3 times before Jan 15). That should definitely help our win percentage.

[Ghost of Kleine]

For Kerrsed!
https://valleyofthesuns.com/2021/08/23/phoenix-suns-sign-lance-stephenson-2/

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

For Kerrsed!
https://valleyofthesuns.com/2021/08/23/phoenix-suns-sign-lance-stephenson-2/

Not a bad idea, honestly. I know we're all focused on the PF position, but between Crowder, Cam, Smith, and even Nader in a pinch depending on matchups, we can cover those minutes. You could say the same thing about the 3 with Bridges, Cam, Crowder, Nader and Booker, but I prefer Cam and Crowder at the 4, personally. At the 2 we have Booker and Shamet, then it's Payne and in a pinch, Nader.

The advantage of adding a guy like Love is experience and savvy. I could see him bothering AD, despite the length advantage, much more than Crowder or Cam (or Smith). But if, like me, you view Cam as more 4 than 3, the depth we lack would seem to be at the wing moreso than the 4 specifically.

I like it.

[Barkley6]

For Kerrsed!
https://valleyofthesuns.com/2021/08/23/phoenix-suns-sign-lance-stephenson-2/

Not a bad idea, honestly. I know we're all focused on the PF position, but between Crowder, Cam, Smith, and even Nader in a pinch depending on matchups, we can cover those minutes. You could say the same thing about the 3 with Bridges, Cam, Crowder, Nader and Booker, but I prefer Cam and Crowder at the 4, personally. At the 2 we have Booker and Shamet, then it's Payne and in a pinch, Nader.

The advantage of adding a guy like Love is experience and savvy. I could see him bothering AD, despite the length advantage, much more than Crowder or Cam (or Smith). But if, like me, you view Cam as more 4 than 3, the depth we lack would seem to be at the wing moreso than the 4 specifically.

I like it.

Not opposed to adding wing depth and having CamJo be the full time back up 4. But I'm always wary of guys who haven't been in the league for a bit, I haven't forgotten Josh Childress.

[RunDogGun]

Childress wasn't a bad player because he was overseas. He was bad in our system and how we used him. Him breaking his thumb early in that year sure didn't help him or his shot. It is a bad idea to have a 20% three point shooter, standing around the three point line waiting for a pass. I think it was the same year where Robin was getting passes around the three point line, and he often wouldn't even turn to face the basket, to make it even appear like he was a threat from three.

I really like CamJ, and his play, but I don't really care to have him just be Crowder's backup, since Crowder is only a 10/4.7 player. I would rather find a better starting four if CamJ is to be that player's back up.

I don't see the need for Lance as our 15th player. I would rather wait and see what opens up. I am still sort of interested in trading for Bagley III. Maybe a new team with a solid culture could get the most out of him.

If that were to happen, then I would be ok with CamJ backing up Bridges at the 3. I would like to see Bridges and CamJ starting together for a few games before any trades though.

Our real issue is the lack of rebounding from the pf spot. I would like someone with a 7-9 rebound range. More would be a bonus, but after seeing teams get so many offensive rebounds on us, we are just lacking size and rebounding with Crowder starting.

[suns12345]

Childress wasn't a bad player because he was overseas. He was bad in our system and how we used him. Him breaking his thumb early in that year sure didn't help him or his shot. It is a bad idea to have a 20% three point shooter, standing around the three point line waiting for a pass. I think it was the same year where Robin was getting passes around the three point line, and he often wouldn't even turn to face the basket, to make it even appear like he was a threat from three.

I really like CamJ, and his play, but I don't really care to have him just be Crowder's backup, since Crowder is only a 10/4.7 player. I would rather find a better starting four if CamJ is to be that player's back up.

I don't see the need for Lance as our 15th player. I would rather wait and see what opens up. I am still sort of interested in trading for Bagley III. Maybe a new team with a solid culture could get the most out of him.

If that were to happen, then I would be ok with CamJ backing up Bridges at the 3. I would like to see Bridges and CamJ starting together for a few games before any trades though.

Our real issue is the lack of rebounding from the pf spot. I would like someone with a 7-9 rebound range. More would be a bonus, but after seeing teams get so many offensive rebounds on us, we are just lacking size and rebounding with Crowder starting.

I think ideally we need to find someone who can guard wings like Crowder does, but is a bit taller and longer so can help on the glass a bit more. However, I think having a traditional PF who is good on the glass but can't play on the perimeter well (on offense and defense) would be equally problematic.

Problem is, guys that we're describing aren't that common. It's certainly the one gap this team has that's for sure.

[Frank Lee]

Cam Johnson is that guy

[RunDogGun]

I think ideally we need to find someone who can guard wings like Crowder does, but is a bit taller and longer so can help on the glass a bit more. However, I think having a traditional PF who is good on the glass but can't play on the perimeter well (on offense and defense) would be equally problematic.

Problem is, guys that we're describing aren't that common. It's certainly the one gap this team has that's for sure.

Well it doesn't have to be a traditional pf, although I did mention one. Craig would have worked exactly how you said. He was second in rbds for us, and he only played 18 mins. Per 36, he would be at 9.2. With starter minutes, who knows.

As far as Frank suggesting Johnson being that guy, and I agree that he should start(with the current roster), but his rebounding is not what I think that position needs. Even per 36, he is only at 5. Now is it beyond him to become a better rebounder...nope, I think he is smart enough to find a way to be better at rebounding. But as of now, I would still prefer a better rebounder, since we lost Craig. Our pf rotation took a hit on rebounds, and we were already having issues with rebounding. McGee will get boards, but again, that isn't from the four. And while I hope Stix can help there as well, I just don't know if he will get the minutes to fill the void.

[lilfishi22]

I just can't see Stix getting enough minutes to be that backup rebounder. He'd have to have some chemistry with the backup guards and hit a couple of 3's to earn his minutes. Just out there to rebound while giving up all that offense you could get from Cam off the bench (or Crowder if that's what's up) is too much of a trade-off.

I do agree that we need one more rebounding big. A vet would be good in this role. I mean Millsap has been mentioned numerous times. Still a solid rebounder (8rpg per 36), big body, hit 3's and seems like a good locker room. For whatever reason, we haven't been linked to him

[Mulhollanddrive]

Seems Millsap got exposed defensively according to Nuggets fans and we like our switch ability in playoffs.

[Barkley6]

I just can't see Stix getting enough minutes to be that backup rebounder. He'd have to have some chemistry with the backup guards and hit a couple of 3's to earn his minutes. Just out there to rebound while giving up all that offense you could get from Cam off the bench (or Crowder if that's what's up) is too much of a trade-off.

I do agree that we need one more rebounding big. A vet would be good in this role. I mean Millsap has been mentioned numerous times. Still a solid rebounder (8rpg per 36), big body, hit 3's and seems like a good locker room. For whatever reason, we haven't been linked to him

The fact that Millsap is still unsigned when he's clearly a level above the rest of the FAs still out there is a bit puzzling to me. I wonder if he has offers but is considering retirement? Or maybe if he's just taking his good sweet time to consider them?

Either way, I do very much like him as our backup 4 man. He's a guy you can comfortably play in the regular season and the playoffs, and that's what we need to be looking to add. I know there are still moves to be made this offseason, but that's my biggest critique of the moves we've made so far, we didn't add much playoff depth, though Shamet could be that depending on how he fits.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Locked On Suns Podcast (@LockedOnPHXSuns) Tweeted:
New week, new pod with @ZonaHoops_

☀️ Schedule/national TV game reaction
☀️ Why Suns should be a top-2 seed again in 2022
☀️ How Suns fare among NBA contenders

https://t.co/HJ2Es2jisB
https://t.co/PgrXGx2ioV https://t.co/RXxAudHWfR

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[Barkley6]

Trade idea:

3 team deal, Indiana, Cleveland and Phoenix.

Indiana Gets:
Dario Saric
2022 Suns 2nd Round Pick
2024 Suns 2nd Round Pick

Cleveland Gets:
Jeremy Lamb

Phoenix Gets:
Larry Nance Jr

Indiana does this deal because it would save them about $2m in salary this season, which would get them under the tax line, so the savings end up being about $3m this year and next, plus they get 2 second round picks in the future, and a possible rotation player in Dario for the playoffs this year, or all of next year. He fits very well as a Sabonis backup because they are similar stylistically.

Cleveland does this because they get the wing help they desperately need, and clear up a bit of the logjam at the bigs they have with Mobley, Allen, Love, and Nance Jr.

Suns get the type of PF they want, a good fit for our system on a reasonable contract.

[Bogyo]

Trade idea:

3 team deal, Indiana, Cleveland and Phoenix.

Indiana Gets:
Dario Saric
2022 Suns 2nd Round Pick
2024 Suns 2nd Round Pick

Cleveland Gets:
Jeremy Lamb

Phoenix Gets:
Larry Nance Jr

Indiana does this deal because it would save them about $2m in salary this season, which would get them under the tax line, so the savings end up being about $3m this year and next, plus they get 2 second round picks in the future, and a possible rotation player in Dario for the playoffs this year, or all of next year. He fits very well as a Sabonis backup because they are similar stylistically.

Cleveland does this because they get the wing help they desperately need, and clear up a bit of the logjam at the bigs they have with Mobley, Allen, Love, and Nance Jr.

Suns get the type of PF they want, a good fit for our system on a reasonable contract.

I just had the same idea when I saw the Lamb trade news. Beat me to it. I'd do this easy. Our 2nd rounders will likely be sub 50.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Trade idea:

3 team deal, Indiana, Cleveland and Phoenix.

Indiana Gets:
Dario Saric
2022 Suns 2nd Round Pick
2024 Suns 2nd Round Pick

Cleveland Gets:
Jeremy Lamb

Phoenix Gets:
Larry Nance Jr

Indiana does this deal because it would save them about $2m in salary this season, which would get them under the tax line, so the savings end up being about $3m this year and next, plus they get 2 second round picks in the future, and a possible rotation player in Dario for the playoffs this year, or all of next year. He fits very well as a Sabonis backup because they are similar stylistically.

Cleveland does this because they get the wing help they desperately need, and clear up a bit of the logjam at the bigs they have with Mobley, Allen, Love, and Nance Jr.

Suns get the type of PF they want, a good fit for our system on a reasonable contract.

I just had the same idea when I saw the Lamb trade news. Beat me to it. I'd do this easy. Our 2nd rounders will likely be sub 50.

I like this idea for nance IF we still play Cam at the backup 4 and Nance alongside him at the backup 3. This would move Nader to the 3rd rotation 3, Alongside of Smith ( 4) and Kaminsky at the (5).

But our 2nd unit of:

Payne/ Shamet/ Nance/ Cam/ McGee
would be very solid. And with moving Nader to the 3rd rotation, that rotation would be very solid as well with:

Payton/ FA? / Nader / Smith/ Kaminsky. Just pick up the best shooter/ scorer/ we can find in free agency, or from the G league/ undrafted pool. My only question would be if getting Lamb would be enough value for Cleveland to surrender Nance to us?

If not, Has anyone considered Memphis for a trade? Maybe something around:
Saric and 2 2nds for Kyle Anderson and Sam Merrill ( Shamet insurance) in case we don't resign him, As he's cheaper and has a Better FG% and a better 3 pt % on less minutes. So IF we expect to not overpay for Shamet should some team look to give him a bigger offer than we're comfortable with? But for now, Anderson would be off our books next summer, Clearing Sarics' salary. And Merrill could up his value as a cheaper similar version of Shamet/ Kennard (he averaged 5 assists in the summer league with lights out shooting)!!

With Sarics' salary off our books, We can choose to either resign him for more than we originally planned for OR we could trade him for a specific upgrade at another position of need. And IF we prefer to keep him, Then we can up Merrill's value as an elite playmaking shooter and trade him at peak value.

Once such trade that is intriguing to me should we move Shamet due th o another team's interest and possible large offer would be to trade Shamet ( pick swap or confitional first perhaps)? for BRANDON CLARKE?? He's a hometown player and is elite as a small ball 4 rim protector/ rebounder with plus athleticism. For my part, I'd love to see Clarke as Crowders' eventual replacement though. At the 3 with Cam at the 4, and McGee ( resigned) at the 5.

[Barkley6]

Trade idea:

3 team deal, Indiana, Cleveland and Phoenix.

Indiana Gets:
Dario Saric
2022 Suns 2nd Round Pick
2024 Suns 2nd Round Pick

Cleveland Gets:
Jeremy Lamb

Phoenix Gets:
Larry Nance Jr

Indiana does this deal because it would save them about $2m in salary this season, which would get them under the tax line, so the savings end up being about $3m this year and next, plus they get 2 second round picks in the future, and a possible rotation player in Dario for the playoffs this year, or all of next year. He fits very well as a Sabonis backup because they are similar stylistically.

Cleveland does this because they get the wing help they desperately need, and clear up a bit of the logjam at the bigs they have with Mobley, Allen, Love, and Nance Jr.

Suns get the type of PF they want, a good fit for our system on a reasonable contract.

I just had the same idea when I saw the Lamb trade news. Beat me to it. I'd do this easy. Our 2nd rounders will likely be sub 50.

I like this idea for nance IF we still play Cam at the backup 4 and Nance alongside him at the backup 3. This would move Nader to the 3rd rotation 3, Alongside of Smith ( 4) and Kaminsky at the (5).

But our 2nd unit of:

Payne/ Shamet/ Nance/ Cam/ McGee
would be very solid. And with moving Nader to the 3rd rotation, that rotation would be very solid as well with:

Payton/ FA? / Nader / Smith/ Kaminsky. Just pick up the best shooter/ scorer/ we can find in free agency, or from the G league/ undrafted pool. My only question would be if getting Lamb would be enough value for Cleveland to surrender Nance to us?

If not, Has anyone considered Memphis for a trade? Maybe something around:
Saric and 2 2nds for Kyle Anderson and Sam Merrill ( Shamet insurance) in case we don't resign him, As he's cheaper and has a Better FG% and a better 3 pt % on less minutes. So IF we expect to not overpay for Shamet should some team look to give him a bigger offer than we're comfortable with? But for now, Anderson would be off our books next summer, Clearing Sarics' salary. And Merrill could up his value as a cheaper similar version of Shamet/ Kennard (he averaged 5 assists in the summer league with lights out shooting)!!

With Sarics' salary off our books, We can choose to either resign him for more than we originally planned for OR we could trade him for a specific upgrade at another position of need. And IF we prefer to keep him, Then we can up Merrill's value as an elite playmaking shooter and trade him at peak value.

Once such trade that is intriguing to me should we move Shamet due th o another team's interest and possible large offer would be to trade Shamet ( pick swap or confitional first perhaps)? for BRANDON CLARKE?? He's a hometown player and is elite as a small ball 4 rim protector/ rebounder with plus athleticism. For my part, I'd love to see Clarke as Crowders' eventual replacement though. At the 3 with Cam at the 4, and McGee ( resigned) at the 5.

I think Nance and Lamb are definitely in the same tier of player. Both solid role players, that could sometimes start, both 28, both make about $10.5m/per, both have some injury history. They are VERY similar player profiles, the only difference is the position they play.

The issue with this being a straight swap, is Indiana probably doesn't want Nance, he costs the same as Lamb and is under contract for an additional year, he also is someone who'd want a lot of minutes at positions they are deep at, so they'd need a 3rd team to facilitate. Saric doesn't create the positional logjam this year, has 2 picks attached to him, saves them $, and is likely a good fit down the road.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Great trade idea! Never thought I'd say that on RealGM.

Only thing I read is that Nance has some physical condition so might be on the down hill but not 100% sure.

[Barkley6]

Great trade idea! Never thought I'd say that on RealGM.

Only thing I read is that Nance has some physical condition so might be on the down hill but not 100% sure.

Thanks, glad it seems to be getting some positive feedback. Nance has one year left on his deal after this one, if he can be serviceable for that time, it's well worth it considering Saric is out for this upcoming season anyway.

[bwoolf2]

I just had the same idea when I saw the Lamb trade news. Beat me to it. I'd do this easy. Our 2nd rounders will likely be sub 50.

I like this idea for nance IF we still play Cam at the backup 4 and Nance alongside him at the backup 3. This would move Nader to the 3rd rotation 3, Alongside of Smith ( 4) and Kaminsky at the (5).

But our 2nd unit of:

Payne/ Shamet/ Nance/ Cam/ McGee
would be very solid. And with moving Nader to the 3rd rotation, that rotation would be very solid as well with:

Payton/ FA? / Nader / Smith/ Kaminsky. Just pick up the best shooter/ scorer/ we can find in free agency, or from the G league/ undrafted pool. My only question would be if getting Lamb would be enough value for Cleveland to surrender Nance to us?

If not, Has anyone considered Memphis for a trade? Maybe something around:
Saric and 2 2nds for Kyle Anderson and Sam Merrill ( Shamet insurance) in case we don't resign him, As he's cheaper and has a Better FG% and a better 3 pt % on less minutes. So IF we expect to not overpay for Shamet should some team look to give him a bigger offer than we're comfortable with? But for now, Anderson would be off our books next summer, Clearing Sarics' salary. And Merrill could up his value as a cheaper similar version of Shamet/ Kennard (he averaged 5 assists in the summer league with lights out shooting)!!

With Sarics' salary off our books, We can choose to either resign him for more than we originally planned for OR we could trade him for a specific upgrade at another position of need. And IF we prefer to keep him, Then we can up Merrill's value as an elite playmaking shooter and trade him at peak value.

Once such trade that is intriguing to me should we move Shamet due th o another team's interest and possible large offer would be to trade Shamet ( pick swap or confitional first perhaps)? for BRANDON CLARKE?? He's a hometown player and is elite as a small ball 4 rim protector/ rebounder with plus athleticism. For my part, I'd love to see Clarke as Crowders' eventual replacement though. At the 3 with Cam at the 4, and McGee ( resigned) at the 5.

I think Nance and Lamb are definitely in the same tier of player. Both solid role players, that could sometimes start, both 28, both make about $10.5m/per, both have some injury history. They are VERY similar player profiles, the only difference is the position they play.

The issue with this being a straight swap, is Indiana probably doesn't want Nance, he costs the same as Lamb and is under contract for an additional year, he also is someone who'd want a lot of minutes at positions they are deep at, so they'd need a 3rd team to facilitate. Saric doesn't create the positional logjam this year, has 2 picks attached to him, saves them $, and is likely a good fit down the road.

I'm not sure why we go after a PF, Cam Johnson is a similar size and at this point on their careers is a better player, not sure why we wouldn't just give him more minutes, other than if we just want to move off the Saric contract

[Barkley6]

I like this idea for nance IF we still play Cam at the backup 4 and Nance alongside him at the backup 3. This would move Nader to the 3rd rotation 3, Alongside of Smith ( 4) and Kaminsky at the (5).

But our 2nd unit of:

Payne/ Shamet/ Nance/ Cam/ McGee
would be very solid. And with moving Nader to the 3rd rotation, that rotation would be very solid as well with:

Payton/ FA? / Nader / Smith/ Kaminsky. Just pick up the best shooter/ scorer/ we can find in free agency, or from the G league/ undrafted pool. My only question would be if getting Lamb would be enough value for Cleveland to surrender Nance to us?

If not, Has anyone considered Memphis for a trade? Maybe something around:
Saric and 2 2nds for Kyle Anderson and Sam Merrill ( Shamet insurance) in case we don't resign him, As he's cheaper and has a Better FG% and a better 3 pt % on less minutes. So IF we expect to not overpay for Shamet should some team look to give him a bigger offer than we're comfortable with? But for now, Anderson would be off our books next summer, Clearing Sarics' salary. And Merrill could up his value as a cheaper similar version of Shamet/ Kennard (he averaged 5 assists in the summer league with lights out shooting)!!

With Sarics' salary off our books, We can choose to either resign him for more than we originally planned for OR we could trade him for a specific upgrade at another position of need. And IF we prefer to keep him, Then we can up Merrill's value as an elite playmaking shooter and trade him at peak value.

Once such trade that is intriguing to me should we move Shamet due th o another team's interest and possible large offer would be to trade Shamet ( pick swap or confitional first perhaps)? for BRANDON CLARKE?? He's a hometown player and is elite as a small ball 4 rim protector/ rebounder with plus athleticism. For my part, I'd love to see Clarke as Crowders' eventual replacement though. At the 3 with Cam at the 4, and McGee ( resigned) at the 5.

I think Nance and Lamb are definitely in the same tier of player. Both solid role players, that could sometimes start, both 28, both make about $10.5m/per, both have some injury history. They are VERY similar player profiles, the only difference is the position they play.

The issue with this being a straight swap, is Indiana probably doesn't want Nance, he costs the same as Lamb and is under contract for an additional year, he also is someone who'd want a lot of minutes at positions they are deep at, so they'd need a 3rd team to facilitate. Saric doesn't create the positional logjam this year, has 2 picks attached to him, saves them $, and is likely a good fit down the road.

I'm not sure why we go after a PF, Cam Johnson is a similar size and at this point on their careers is a better player, not sure why we wouldn't just give him more minutes, other than if we just want to move off the Saric contract

Nance Jr is a MUCH better rebounder than Johnson, and a better defender. Both things we need from the PF spot desperately. CamJo definitely has a higher ceiling and is a MUCH more complete offensive player, but Nance does a lot of stuff that Cam doesn't do. No problem in having both. It also allows Cam to be a full time backup 3, so I don't think there will be any shortage of minutes. Nance Jr wouldn't be a Cam replacement, as much as it would be us punting on Stix.

From last season:
Nance Jr's Per 36:
11pts/8reb/3.5ast/2stl/.6blk

CamJo's Per 36:
9.6pts/3.3rebs/1.4ast/.6stl/.3blk