MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.4 - Beasley Time

[SA37]

That Orlando trade is intriguing. RJ Hampton and Cole Anthony are 19 and 20yo respectively and are both finishing their rookie season so they are both still under rookie scale contract for another 3yrs which would benefit us financially if we are unsure about paying Herro.

Add to that I expect Orlando to be in the bottom 4 teams next season which means their 2022 FRP will at least be in the lottery and could very easily be a top 4 pick.

I think Herro is the best player in the package but the total value could be better in the long run.

If the Heat are confident in Oladipo returning to form then I'd say its a good move but if he doesn't this could hurt our chances this season at surprising people.

1) Orlando would surely put protections on any pick they sent to Miami.

2) The most likely scenario is that neither Hampton nor Anthony will develop fast enough (if at all) to really help Miami's title push.

3) If Herro and Oladipo play well enough to earn big contracts, then Miami is going to have to make a move. However, that move might be Duncan Robinson being shipped out.


The only way I see Herro being moved is if Miami can acquire a really good player in return (like Colin Sexton) or if Miami can get a combo where they acquire a veteran who can help now + an asset they can cash in on down the line (like Nance Jr and a pick). However, Miami's lack of draft assets and Herro's low salary limit the options enormously.

[dean456]

That Orlando trade is intriguing. RJ Hampton and Cole Anthony are 19 and 20yo respectively and are both finishing their rookie season so they are both still under rookie scale contract for another 3yrs which would benefit us financially if we are unsure about paying Herro.

Add to that I expect Orlando to be in the bottom 4 teams next season which means their 2022 FRP will at least be in the lottery and could very easily be a top 4 pick.

I think Herro is the best player in the package but the total value could be better in the long run.

If the Heat are confident in Oladipo returning to form then I'd say its a good move but if he doesn't this could hurt our chances this season at surprising people.

1) Orlando would surely put protections on any pick they sent to Miami.

2) The most likely scenario is that neither Hampton nor Anthony will develop fast enough (if at all) to really help Miami's title push.

3) If Herro and Oladipo play well enough to earn big contracts, then Miami is going to have to make a move. However, that move might be Duncan Robinson being shipped out.


The only way I see Herro being moved is if Miami can acquire a really good player in return (like Colin Sexton) or if Miami can get a combo where they acquire a veteran who can help now + an asset they can cash in on down the line (like Nance Jr and a pick). However, Miami's lack of draft assets and Herro's low salary limit the options enormously.

I think they are both serviceable enough to contribute in the limited minutes behind Lowry and Butler at least during the regular season much like DJJr did for us in 2018-2019. Once we reach the playoffs our rotation will shrink to around 8-9 guys anyway.

Also not sure it would really matter even if it was lottery protected. In the last 12yrs Orlando have only made the 1st round of the playoffs 4/12 times and their team is probably in the worst position its been in those 12yrs. Even if its not able to convey in the next few years I think it would be a pretty good trade asset to go along with the rest of our draft picks once we get them back. This could set us up to have a strong balanced roster that can compete over the next 3 seasons while also keeping the flexibility to make moves.

If we are able to trade any/all of Robinson, RJ Hampton, Cole Anthony, the player we draft in 2022 with our pick, ORL's 2022 1st and 2nd, 4 of our own FRPs and 3FRP swaps then I think that's more than enough for us to reload once Lowry's contract expires.

[Hallstar]

That Orlando trade is intriguing. RJ Hampton and Cole Anthony are 19 and 20yo respectively and are both finishing their rookie season so they are both still under rookie scale contract for another 3yrs which would benefit us financially if we are unsure about paying Herro.

Add to that I expect Orlando to be in the bottom 4 teams next season which means their 2022 FRP will at least be in the lottery and could very easily be a top 4 pick.

I think Herro is the best player in the package but the total value could be better in the long run.

If the Heat are confident in Oladipo returning to form then I'd say its a good move but if he doesn't this could hurt our chances this season at surprising people.

1) Orlando would surely put protections on any pick they sent to Miami.

2) The most likely scenario is that neither Hampton nor Anthony will develop fast enough (if at all) to really help Miami's title push.

3) If Herro and Oladipo play well enough to earn big contracts, then Miami is going to have to make a move. However, that move might be Duncan Robinson being shipped out.


The only way I see Herro being moved is if Miami can acquire a really good player in return (like Colin Sexton) or if Miami can get a combo where they acquire a veteran who can help now + an asset they can cash in on down the line (like Nance Jr and a pick). However, Miami's lack of draft assets and Herro's low salary limit the options enormously.

I think they are both serviceable enough to contribute in the limited minutes behind Lowry and Butler at least during the regular season much like DJJr did for us in 2018-2019. Once we reach the playoffs our rotation will shrink to around 8-9 guys anyway.

Also not sure it would really matter even if it was lottery protected. In the last 12yrs Orlando have only made the 1st round of the playoffs 4/12 times and their team is probably in the worst position its been in those 12yrs. Even if its not able to convey in the next few years I think it would be a pretty good trade asset to go along with the rest of our draft picks once we get them back. This could set us up to have a strong balanced roster that can compete over the next 3 seasons while also keeping the flexibility to make moves.

If we are able to trade any/all of Robinson, RJ Hampton, Cole Anthony, the player we draft in 2022 with our pick, ORL's 2022 1st and 2nd, 4 of our own FRPs and 3FRP swaps then I think that's more than enough for us to reload once Lowry's contract expires.

They would be behind older players likely to miss time, players that both missed significant time recently. So they would likely need to be capable of holding down starting roles at several points. Herro is already likely top 5 in his own redraft.

We don't want to tank for talent, and when we manage to luck out, we want to trade it for mediocre players? You're speaking about when Lowry expires. When Lowry expires Herro will be 24 and that's a player you'll be trying to tie all that junk together to trade for

[Kobewade11]

Everytime I see something about Herro he’s in the gym putting in work. Everytime I see something about Duncan he’s on his podcast or chilling smh. Im anxious to see if the “work ethic” rumors apply to all, and to see how this team deals with the impending clash of the player on the rookie deal being much better than the guy they just gave 90 million.

[dean456]

1) Orlando would surely put protections on any pick they sent to Miami.

2) The most likely scenario is that neither Hampton nor Anthony will develop fast enough (if at all) to really help Miami's title push.

3) If Herro and Oladipo play well enough to earn big contracts, then Miami is going to have to make a move. However, that move might be Duncan Robinson being shipped out.


The only way I see Herro being moved is if Miami can acquire a really good player in return (like Colin Sexton) or if Miami can get a combo where they acquire a veteran who can help now + an asset they can cash in on down the line (like Nance Jr and a pick). However, Miami's lack of draft assets and Herro's low salary limit the options enormously.

I think they are both serviceable enough to contribute in the limited minutes behind Lowry and Butler at least during the regular season much like DJJr did for us in 2018-2019. Once we reach the playoffs our rotation will shrink to around 8-9 guys anyway.

Also not sure it would really matter even if it was lottery protected. In the last 12yrs Orlando have only made the 1st round of the playoffs 4/12 times and their team is probably in the worst position its been in those 12yrs. Even if its not able to convey in the next few years I think it would be a pretty good trade asset to go along with the rest of our draft picks once we get them back. This could set us up to have a strong balanced roster that can compete over the next 3 seasons while also keeping the flexibility to make moves.

If we are able to trade any/all of Robinson, RJ Hampton, Cole Anthony, the player we draft in 2022 with our pick, ORL's 2022 1st and 2nd, 4 of our own FRPs and 3FRP swaps then I think that's more than enough for us to reload once Lowry's contract expires.

They would be behind older players likely to miss time, players that both missed significant time recently. So they would likely need to be capable of holding down starting roles at several points. Herro is already likely top 5 in his own redraft.

We don't want to tank for talent, and when we manage to luck out, we want to trade it for mediocre players? You're speaking about when Lowry expires. When Lowry expires Herro will be 24 and that's a player you'll be trying to tie all that junk together to trade for

By then we will be looking at the Tatum's, Mitchell's and Fox's of the league which are at a level I don't see Herro. I'd much rather Cole Anthony and RJ Hampton behind Lowry and Jimmy then Vincent and Okpala which we currently have. If Oladipo's back and you play him with Anthony and one of Strus/Hampton off the bench then I think that's solid in a limited capacity.

Saying Herro is top 5 in his re draft isn't saying much, outside of Zion, Morant and Barrett the rest of that draft is pretty bad. Also Herro is yet to prove he can be that guy. If he shows improvement this year then I'd probably hold off doing a trade like this but if its more of what we've already seen then I think it's something worth considering at the deadline.

[heat4life]

Herro is not being traded for prospects like Hampton and Anthony, period. Is not the Miami way to dump talent for prospects. Miami might however, consider trading him for an equally proven NBA player or as part of a package for a star.

Right now I just think Miami keeps him and focus in finding out how much grow they can get out of him to reach his ceiling. I mean, we have a 16ppg playmaker to come in off the bench, who can run the point or play off the ball. Exactly what this team needs. Make him respectable on the defensive end and worry about his contract later.

[AirP.]

Two worse guards and picks we won't develop

I'd easily do that deal. For starters, I'm not sure people get how marginalized Herro will be once Oladipo is back and doing well as a 2 way player. Toss in Herro will need to be paid in 2 seasons while the other 2 will have another year left on their rookie contract, the timing is key since you'll have Butler and Bam maxed, Lowry, Oladipo and Robinson making a good amount also, having 2 rookie contract contributors would help greatly. Toss in another 1st that could let Miami take 2 picks in the 2022 draft for long term potential for life after Lowry.

Oladipo is one of the keys to the future of Miami because either you keep him moving others like Herro or just lose him for nothing to keep and pay Herro. I don't see Miami paying Butler, Bam, Lowry, Oladipo, Robinson and Herro a bunch of money each, that's nuts because of how much overlap there would be, the only way you can really consolidate any of that talent without including Herro would be in next year's draft by drafting for someone else and then trade that player with someone for an upgrade.

Don't sleep on Oladipo in Miami, he's the 3 level scorer(although not top tier) guy they need and he's also a 2 way player. This year he'll be a bench guy(whenever he finally comes back) because I don't expect him to be the player he'll be by the start of the 2022-2023 season. Who knows, maybe Miami keeps Herro and moves Robinson next offseason to offset the salaries.

You seriously overvalue the future of a one leg Oladipo. Herro is our best shot creator and maker going forward and as he gets stronger, that will be clearer.

You have a 3rd year player with clearly defined NBA skills and trade him during a supposed Championship attempt for raw guards you're not sure are playable at any stage...

Do I? I watched him play in Houston a bunch of games and I saw a player who was rusty but still moved very good for an athlete. For instance, his last play was a cut to the basket where he easily got up for a 2 handed dunk, that play isn't something most players his size can do in a game, let alone easily.

I don't value Herro as much as some on this board, although he can score and is skilled, overall the offense and the defense is worse with him on the court. I'll often talk in game threads about his lackadaisical passing on standard passes which just causes problems for that possession or trying to be too fancy with some passes causing a bad possession. I believe he has the ability to be a good scorer in the NBA, he defensive rebounds well and does have good vision but he just loses focus when he's done looking for a shot or pass which you wouldn't expect a young player looking for minutes or a larger role to do. He just screws up simple passes that wrecks offensive possessions, to me it's not a skill issue, it's a focus issue. Oh, and of course he's really bad on offense and doesn't have the size to really offset that.

[SA37]

Herro is not being traded for prospects like Hampton and Anthony, period. Is not the Miami way to dump talent for prospects. Miami might however, consider trading him for an equally proven NBA player or as part of a package for a star.

Right now I just think Miami keeps him and focus in finding out how much grow they can get out of him to reach his ceiling. I mean, we have a 16ppg playmaker to come in off the bench, who can run the point or play off the ball. Exactly what this team needs. Make him respectable on the defensive end and worry about his contract later.

I agree with all of this.

A lot of people are writing Herro off, but he is easily Miami's second-best guard at this point. The Heat seem to be really high on him and, while I don't think he is going to turn into a star, I do think his ceiling can be in the CJ McCollum/Caris LeVert range; worst-case he is Buddy Hield/Tim Hardaway Jr.

[AirP.]

Everytime I see something about Herro he’s in the gym putting in work. Everytime I see something about Duncan he’s on his podcast or chilling smh. Im anxious to see if the “work ethic” rumors apply to all, and to see how this team deals with the impending clash of the player on the rookie deal being much better than the guy they just gave 90 million.

For starters, a player like Robinson knows his role which is being a shooter and with that have somewhat boring looking practices because they'll be based on repetition from certain spots, he knows his role(which is limited) and will work at it. Someone like Herro who has higher aspirations may not focus as much on 1 or 2 things and may work on just expanding his game overall and with that may be more exciting to see.

Robinson had a much tougher time making it in the NBA then Herro has, he's had to work just to make the roster. He was still an afterthought until he came back his second year.

That has meant adding, at one point, another 14 pounds of mass to his 6-foot-8 frame, now comfortably carrying 12 more than he did a year ago, when he made his summer-league case as a somewhat lithe shooter.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/fl-sp-miami-heat-summer-league-monday-20190708-ethn2mkklbbddd65mwy4j4qc5a-story.html

Ok, here's some videos on Robinson...
Working out with Spencer Dinwiddie this summer.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

General workouts previous years.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Here's Robinson's podcast where he's talking about what he'll work on this summer. Without getting specific he mentions working on a 2 pt shot he feels he should be able to get in Miami's offense, to him it's about working on what you can use in his role with Miami, he understands his limitations and what you can and can't work on and use the next season.

Spoiler:

h

Watch on YouTube

[RexBoyWonder]

Some truly mind boggling ideas thrown in here.

Last thing we need is to to trade out best chips for low end rotation players. we've got the depth part covered with our scouting, G league team and undrafted guys shtick.

We need to focus on getting the best high ceiling/elite talents we can attain/develop, leave the Cole's Antony of the world where they are.

Develop Herro the best we can, hope he breaks out, only trade for proven upgrades.

[MHeat0279]

The Okpala transaction was a disaster. If this was a normal place of business, anyone involved in the decision-making process to acquire him would be fired. Possibly sent to a North Korean camp afterwards as well.

lol refreshingly funny.
I agree.

[AirP.]

Some truly mind boggling ideas thrown in here.

Last thing we need is to to trade out best chips for low end rotation players. we've got the depth part covered with our scouting, G league team and undrafted guys shtick.

We need to focus on getting the best high ceiling/elite talents we can attain/develop, leave the Cole's Antony of the world where they are.

Develop Herro the best we can, hope he breaks out, only trade for proven upgrades.

Good luck with that. The salaries of Butler, Bam, Lowry, Robinson and probably Oladipo next year will limit the level of SALARY you can bring back in a Herro trade and I don't see Miami giving Oladipo and Herro bigger contracts with the big contracts already on the roster.

Miami won't move guys who basically forced themselves to Miami in Butler, Lowry and Oladipo, that would just tell the next guy who wants to force himself to Miami to not do it because you could get moved to somewhere you don't want to go, I doubt they move Bam so the only real salary that possibly could be packaged with Herro for a star would be Robinson(quite possibly the reason he got a player option in case of trade).

If Oladipo doesn't get back to being really good, maybe he's retained at a much lower salary and Herro is signed at a bigger contract, but Oladipo's salary decision comes a year before Herro's for Miami. You either pay Oladipo or lose him for nothing, if he's not getting back to being a very good player, but if he is, it would be ridiculous for a caped out team wanting to win a title to let him walk.

[BenoUdrihFTL]

Would rather wait to see if Dipo can return from the dead before I think about moving Herro

[AirP.]

Would rather wait to see if Dipo can return from the dead before I think about moving Herro

With Miami giving him a minimum to retain his Bird rights while having access to his medicals and seeing him rehab, I think there's a good chance he does return to a high level, don't think they'd waste a roster spot this season(with them going with possibly just 14 players instead of 15) on him thinking there's a high probability they wouldn't retain him after this year.

A lot of Herro's value isn't just his scoring potential but him being on a rookie contract also. He's coming up on year 3 of his 4 year rookie deal, if Miami doesn't move him this season and waits till next offseason, a team that may trade for him has to be prepared to match whatever contract he can get after only being with them for 1 year. You could talk about Miami signing and trading him at that point but the team will be in the tax and will possibly have to pay Strus and anyone else they sign with their exceptions.

Hopefully Herro shows a great ability to score with more vets around him on the court where they can make a big move before the trade deadline(after Oladipo shows promise) with him and Tucker or Robinson's contract for another impact player(PF or C) to play next to Bam. Miami only needs to start the tax clock this year if they're a strong contender, not just a one of the lower contender as they are now.

Baring injury it should be a very fun season, for as good of a team Miami has, I'm pretty interested in seeing a guy like Strus being tossed out there with with 3-4 starters/better options on the court then him giving him some open looks.

[AirP.]

Not sure if it's been mentioned here but Jason Jackson was on a podcast 2 days ago with David Aldridge talking about the Miami Heat.

You can hear it from here...
https://player.fm/series/the-athletic-nba-show

[heat4life]

I think Strus and Vincent are going to be situational players that will get a lot of minutes at the beginning of the season while Dipo recovers. I am more intrigued by Strus Catch-and-Shoot and off ball capabilities. I think he is a much easier player to plugin into the rotation as needed. As for Vincent, he is a really good defender at guard and a very capable scorer. The problem is he runs either hot or cold offensively. If he can be consistent (8ppg-10ppg), then he becomes a better fit as a backup guard than Nunn was because of his defense.

[heat4life]

Some truly mind boggling ideas thrown in here.

Last thing we need is to to trade out best chips for low end rotation players. we've got the depth part covered with our scouting, G league team and undrafted guys shtick.

We need to focus on getting the best high ceiling/elite talents we can attain/develop, leave the Cole's Antony of the world where they are.

Develop Herro the best we can, hope he breaks out, only trade for proven upgrades.

Good luck with that. The salaries of Butler, Bam, Lowry, Robinson and probably Oladipo next year will limit the level of SALARY you can bring back in a Herro trade and I don't see Miami giving Oladipo and Herro bigger contracts with the big contracts already on the roster.

Miami won't move guys who basically forced themselves to Miami in Butler, Lowry and Oladipo, that would just tell the next guy who wants to force himself to Miami to not do it because you could get moved to somewhere you don't want to go, I doubt they move Bam so the only real salary that possibly could be packaged with Herro for a star would be Robinson(quite possibly the reason he got a player option in case of trade).

If Oladipo doesn't get back to being really good, maybe he's retained at a much lower salary and Herro is signed at a bigger contract, but Oladipo's salary decision comes a year before Herro's for Miami. You either pay Oladipo or lose him for nothing, if he's not getting back to being a very good player, but if he is, it would be ridiculous for a caped out team wanting to win a title to let him walk.

I think you let it become a problem first (Herro and Dipo playing great), then you worry about how you are going to pay them. It's an excellent problem to have. It will also mean that their services will be attractive around the league. Let it play out.

[AirP.]

I think you let it become a problem first (Herro are Dipo playing great), then you worry about how you are going to pay them. It's an excellent problem to have. It will also mean that their services will be attractive around the league. Let it play out.

Or you end up losing Herro for nothing. Miami currently is barely under the tax, if you add a sizable contract for Oladipo, Butler's new max money, not sure you're going to go that far in the tax to retain Herro. It's an issue you have to be thinking about now and with all the talk about it was possible Herro was moved this summer, I don't expect them to change from still looking for a trade with him.

Think of it this way, paying Butler, Lowry, Bam, Robinson, Oladipo and Herro, that's 5 big contracts for PG-SF and only ONE big contract for a PF or C, the roster has to be evened out and I've said I doubt Miami moves a guy who basically forced his way to Miami, so to me it comes down to Robinson or/and Herro being moved before next season. That possibly could change depending on the season Miami has or how vital either or both become this season.

If you want to be a good team you plan ahead multiple years but should also remain flexible with the understanding that something unexpected is likely to happen.

[Rodrizzle]

I think you let it become a problem first (Herro are Dipo playing great), then you worry about how you are going to pay them. It's an excellent problem to have. It will also mean that their services will be attractive around the league. Let it play out.

Or you end up losing Herro for nothing. Miami currently is barely under the tax, if you add a sizable contract for Oladipo, Butler's new max money, not sure you're going to go that far in the tax to retain Herro. It's an issue you have to be thinking about now and with all the talk about it was possible Herro was moved this summer, I don't expect them to change from still looking for a trade with him.

Think of it this way, paying Butler, Lowry, Bam, Robinson, Oladipo and Herro, that's 5 big contracts for PG-SF and only ONE big contract for a PF or C, the roster has to be evened out and I've said I doubt Miami moves a guy who basically forced his way to Miami, so to me it comes down to Robinson or/and Herro being moved before next season. That possibly could change depending on the season Miami has or how vital either or both become this season.

I look at it along the lines of both Robinson and Herro potentially being packaged together. Say Beal forces his way here mid season and then those two contracts work together and we bring in that piece. Hopeful thinking I know but possible

[Heat_team02]

From 3 days ago.

https://heavy.com/sports/miami-heat/marcus-garrett-two-way-contract/

Two days after summer league came to a close, Miami Herald’s Barry Jackson provided clarity on why the Heat pressed pause on locking in the 22-year-old prospect.

Incidentally, Heat remains interested in Marcus Garrett — a 2-way has been discussed – but he’s in middle of changing representation and thus cannot do anything with any team for at least a week (unless Garrett does the contract himself, which would be odd for a rookie),” Jackson tweeted on August 19.