Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Grayson Extended - 2/$20 million

[LUKE23]

We did get a rotation player out of trading 31, though.

Sandro? Or the move financially allowed us to add Allen?

[ShootingtheJ]

Horst hasn't been perfect (Who has?), but the evidence is strongly in his favor. Helps also that the owners have been willing to spend. I'm really finding it difficult to complain about anything as a Bucks fan right now. Feels strange.

Yeah, I feel like he's done a pretty solid job. Where I think the Bucks really have done poorly overall since landing Giannis is drafting to add some cheap, cost-controlled rotation players though. Jabari wasn't really their fault (although many wanted Embiid even with the injury), but you have:

2014 (2): Parker, almost out of the league. Both second round picks were terrible.
2015 (17): Vaughn, out of league. Traded Norman Powell who was one of the better second round picks in a while.
2016 (10): Maker, out of league. Both second round picks were legit players, Brogdon and McCaw.
2017 (17): Wilson, out of league
2018 (17): Divencenzo, good pick
2019: no first
2020: no first, Nwora looks like a good pick for where we got him
2021: no first, who knows on the two seconds

I think you would be hard pressed to find any team that has got less out of the draft over an 8-year span than the Bucks. Three top 17 picks are out of the league completely, and their top 2 pick is pretty close. Then you have the debacle this year with trading 31 and not even trying to get a rotation player.

If we are ever complaining about the roster on the margins, look no further than above.

It seems weird to go back 8 years to judge the Bucks, considering we've changed coaches, GM, and owners. We knew Kidd was a train wreck, and ownership giving him power over personnel was a disaster that lead to Vaughn and Wilson, but that's very much in the past.

[LUKE23]

It seems weird to go back 8 years to judge the Bucks, considering we've changed coaches, GM, and owners. We knew Kidd was a train wreck, and ownership giving him power over personnel was a disaster that lead to Vaughn and Wilson, but that's very much in the past.

Maybe, but I'm making the cut off when we drafted our superstar/foundation guy.

[MVP2110]

We did get a rotation player out of trading 31, though.

Sandro? Or the move financially allowed us to add Allen?

The fact that we flipped the 2 future 2nds we received to get Allen

[emunney]

Overall, I think Horst has gotten good value out of his 1sts, probably better than if we'd had picked players at all the spots. The 2019 pick was to dump Snell, which I didn't love, but it enabled us to keep Hill and Lopez which was a valid prioritization. The 2020 pick was part of the Bledsoe trade -- we got 3 seasons of a starting PG out of that, can't complain there. And this year's pick was the trade down for PJ, and then another trade down (half of which became Allen). It's left us very light on quality youth but you can't really argue with the overall contributions of what we've gotten back.

[ChubsHarrison]

Overall, I think Horst has gotten good value out of his 1sts, probably better than if we'd had picked players at all the spots. The 2019 pick was to dump Snell, which I didn't love, but it enabled us to keep Hill and Lopez which was a valid prioritization. The 2020 pick was part of the Bledsoe trade -- we got 3 seasons of a starting PG out of that, can't complain there. And this year's pick was the trade down for PJ, and then another trade down (half of which became Allen). It's left us very light on quality youth but you can't really argue with the overall contributions of what we've gotten back.

This. It’s very easy to break down the draft with who was picked. But you need to look at how the assets were used and why. There were definitely flubs along the way, but ultimately, all of those picks led to a championship. I understand this discussion is really just nitpicking and looking at the past as a way to improve. But looking at the whole picture is still necessary.

[Frank Nova]

It seems weird to go back 8 years to judge the Bucks, considering we've changed coaches, GM, and owners. We knew Kidd was a train wreck, and ownership giving him power over personnel was a disaster that lead to Vaughn and Wilson, but that's very much in the past.

Maybe, but I'm making the cut off when we drafted our superstar/foundation guy.

The 2017-18 season is the mark IMO. Giannis was fresh off his MIP season and starting to ascend towards where he is today. What has the front office done since then to win a championship? The proof is in the pudding now. Why is anyone still criticizing Jon Horst and why are you going back almost a decade to do so?

[crowhead76]

It seems weird to go back 8 years to judge the Bucks, considering we've changed coaches, GM, and owners. We knew Kidd was a train wreck, and ownership giving him power over personnel was a disaster that lead to Vaughn and Wilson, but that's very much in the past.

Maybe, but I'm making the cut off when we drafted our superstar/foundation guy.

The 2017-18 season is the mark IMO. Giannis was fresh off his MIP season and starting to ascend towards where he is today. What has the front office done since then to win a championship? The proof is in the pudding now. Why is anyone still criticizing Jon Horst and why are you going back almost a decade to do so?

Completely agree with this, which is why I posted only 6 years of evolution, the depth chart prior to Horst and then the rosters under Horst, as well as a coaching change. The culture changed under Horst and Bud, so much so that they Bucks under paid this year to bring back one of their own players.

[Fotis St]

All deserve credits cause they improved at the playoffs but still Giannis reaching MJ level was crucial while other core pieces and coach finally reached their potential. They all deserve credit though cause they eliminated the Hawks without Giannis in the end and this is the beautiful part of our Championship run. At crucial moments everybody showed up and stepped up, a beauty to live and celebrate.

[emunney]

How many games did Jrue have us screaming about him all game only for him to make like 3 consecutive huge plays in the last 2 minutes?

[raferfenix]

This would have made for a very different kind of offseason.

[JaMychal] Green signed a 2-year, $17 million deal with a player option for the second year of his deal, league sources told The Denver Post. His deal, which came shortly after the start of free agency Aug. 2, reflected the mutual interest the Nuggets had long signaled.

New Orleans, Philadelphia, San Antonio and Milwaukee were all interested in signing the 31-year-old veteran, a league source said. Minnesota even considered a possible sign-and-trade for him, according to the source.

https://www.denverpost.com/2021/08/27/jamychal-green-nuggets-return/

[theFireBlanket]

How many games did Jrue have us screaming about him all game only for him to make like 3 consecutive huge plays in the last 2 minutes?

You know you flipped when he started attempting those 3s down the stretch in game 7. But they were butter. That was a shocker after everything else.

[BigO]

I think Horst has done a good job, but everything he's done is irrelevant without Hammonds drafting of Giannis and trade for Middleton.

There is no trade for Jrue without the two core pieces. As I've said before, I don't care about any other Hammonds moves (most of which were demanded by Kohl), he deserves a banner for those two decisions. No title without Hammonds.

[Baddy Chuck]

Hammond literally tried to resign Brandon Jennings and trade the Giannis pick for Josh Smith.

[giannis and 1]

6 year roster evolution

2016-2017 Depth Chart
Delly / Payton II
Snell / Brogdon / Terry / Vaughn
Giannis / Middleton
Parker / Teletovic / Beasley / Novak
Monroe / Henson / Maker / Plumlee
Coach: Kidd
GM: Hammond

2017-18 Depth Chart
Bledsoe / Brogdon / Delly / Jennings
Snell / Terry / Brown / Vaughn
Middleton / Muhammad
Giannis / Parker / Teletovic / DJW
Henson / Maker / Zeller
Coach: Kidd
GM: Horst

2018-19 Depth Chart
Bledsoe / Hill / Frazier
Brogdon / Pat / Brown / DDV
Middleton / Snell / Colson
Giannis / Ersan / Mirotic / DJW
Lopez / Maker / Gasol
Coach: Budenholzer
GM: Horst

2019-20 Depth Chart
Bledsoe / Hill / Mason III
Mathews / DDV / Pat
Middleton / Korver / Brown / Thanasis
Giannis / Ersan / DJW / Williams
Lopez / Lopez
Coach: Budenholzer
GM: Horst

2020-21 Depth Chart (NBA Champions)
Holiday / Teague / Bryant
DDV / Forbes / Merrill
Middleton / Pat / Thanasis / Nwora
Giannis / Tucker / Diakite
Lopez / Portis
Coach: Budenholzer
GM: Horst

2021-2022 Depth Chart
Holiday / Hill / Bryant
DDV / Allen / Pat / Kalaitzakis
Middleton / Hood / Nwora
Giannis / Ojeleye / Thanasis
Lopez / Portis / Diakite / Mamu(2-way)
Coach: Budenholzer
GM: Horst

That 2019 roster would still be a really good team today. Especially if Wood counts.

Brook/Wood/Maker
Giannis/Mirotic/DJW/Ersan
Middleton/Pat/Snell
DDV/Brown
Brogdon/Bledsoe/Hill/Frazier

Giannis, Middleton, DDV, Brogdon, Wood, Connaughton, Brown are all better players now than they were in 2019. Only Brook, Bled, Hill and Ilyasova have declined.

[RiotPunch]

Nate Hinton on a two-way, plz.

[DrWood]

I'd be on board with Kevin Love if he gets bought out. And still wants to play basketball.

yeah, but how can you determine whether he still wants to play basketball?

[jakecronus8]

I'd be on board with Kevin Love if he gets bought out. And still wants to play basketball.

yeah, but how can you determine whether he still wants to play basketball?

My guess would be he goes to his hometown Lakers and reunites with Lebron and Russ.

[BigO]

Hammond literally tried to resign Brandon Jennings and trade the Giannis pick for Josh Smith.

Hint-making things up doesn't make something factual.

[LuessiT]

Nate Hinton on a two-way, plz.

He's your Frank Ntilikina, isn't he? Personally I don't see it with him but wouldn't call myself an expert on him either. Anyways, we should be doing better with our two-ways than in the past. Mamu is a good start.