Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million

[jbk1234]

Moving on, at least his offensive gravity will allow Okoro to run at SF without destroying spacing.


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Or if we end up sliding Okoro to the 2 one day, it will help. But currently, we're still undersized 1-3, we got worse defensively at the 4, and the ability of Nance to switch out on smaller players is gone.

Nance didn't really like guarding wings on the perimeter, though.

We have options at SF with Okoro, Windler, Osman, ... and Mobley.

And while we lost defense at PF by trading Nance, we gained a ton (sooner or later) by adding Mobley.

If we buy-out Love, that'll be addition by subtraction on the defensive side even taking in to account his rebounding.

How the salaries all fit together is no less of a concern, but I would have slotted Nance in on a ~ $15M/yr extension when his current contract is up.

To me it all comes down to whether Markkanen is an NBA dinosaur ... a shooting specialist in the post-Ryan Anderson era ... or if a change of place, a new attitude, other bigs to protect him defensively, and PGs to run the show elevate him back on the development track he was on in his second season.

And even so, in a league where Doug McDermott just got paid $14M/yr ... shooting is apparently still in high demand.

I don't think Mobley can play SF. I'd love to be wrong though.

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[kapo]

My wishlist as a Markkanen fan:
1. Let Lauri use and develop his mid range game
2. Let Lauri run the floor and even push the ball himself to fast breaks
Markkanen is loyal to the system, so these are coaching decisions.

Not exactly a big ask ... even if he's hanging out beyond the 3pt line, if defenders close out hard he should have space to create something in the mid-range, drive to the hoop, or pass to the other big. The Cavs aren't too picky who brings up the ball if there's a chance to push the pace.

Does Lauri have any experience running plays from the elbow?

If the Cavs try that with Mobley, they may give Lauri a chance to so so as well.

One thing the Cavs seem to lack is a strong forward to set killer screens. I get the impression Evan and Lauri both prefer to slip them.

How is Lauri with dribble handoffs?

Lauris role was to spread the floor so I dont remember him playing from the elbow much. Dribble handoffs and different actions from there are a familiar sight. But you have to keep in mind that the 3 pointer was and is the main weapon. Handoff plays goal was often to free Lavinen, Lauri popped and gave the space...

I think Lauri was labeled too much as 3 point shooter because of the rookie season fast 100 3 pointers made. Lauri has a lot wider skill set that he gets credit for and for some reason his role in Bulls was diminished to corner shooter or pick&pop guy. If people watch some of his better games or highlights from the first two season in nba, they can see punch of threes and mid range shots, FT's, maybe some coast to coast drives and some drives from close outs. At the moment his not a post-up player but his improved a lot in finishing at the paint.

I hope that Cavs coaching has the wisdom to free him up a little bit from the corner and from 3pt line and I'm sure that they and cavs fans wont be disappointed.

[JonFromVA]

Or if we end up sliding Okoro to the 2 one day, it will help. But currently, we're still undersized 1-3, we got worse defensively at the 4, and the ability of Nance to switch out on smaller players is gone.

Nance didn't really like guarding wings on the perimeter, though.

We have options at SF with Okoro, Windler, Osman, ... and Mobley.

And while we lost defense at PF by trading Nance, we gained a ton (sooner or later) by adding Mobley.

If we buy-out Love, that'll be addition by subtraction on the defensive side even taking in to account his rebounding.

How the salaries all fit together is no less of a concern, but I would have slotted Nance in on a ~ $15M/yr extension when his current contract is up.

To me it all comes down to whether Markkanen is an NBA dinosaur ... a shooting specialist in the post-Ryan Anderson era ... or if a change of place, a new attitude, other bigs to protect him defensively, and PGs to run the show elevate him back on the development track he was on in his second season.

And even so, in a league where Doug McDermott just got paid $14M/yr ... shooting is apparently still in high demand.

I don't think Mobley can play SF. I'd love to be wrong though

I don't see limits on Mobley on D, but we need to see.

Play a zone and 2.5 mobile 7 footers can cover a lot of ground.

[Ugly Duckling]

here's the thing with lm. he was the fastest rookie to 100 3pm in the history of the game and was being favorably compared to tatum and collins. he was the focal point of our offense with jimmy traded for his draft rights and zach recovering from acl. but when zach came back and lms 3pt prowess was on the scouting report, he didnt adjust his game and took a backseat. that and injuries got in his head and made him underachieve imo. he has potential. just needs to ignite that fire. but he wanted out and apparently so did nance. the main thing is Portland trying to avoid dame wanting out, hence the moves

[JonFromVA]

Its no sure thing the Cavs will use him better than the Bulls, but on paper they should be able to

[Hugi Mancura]

Its no sure thing the Cavs will use him better than the Bulls, but on paper they should be able to

Mostly agree with this. Needs are so similar. Floor spacer who can attack the closing defender. But I think Cavs guards might be better at finding him than Bulls guards (or at least Rubio should be). Bulls really didn't use Lauri in pick&roll and I think with Cavs the primary big target for pick&roll is Allen and then Mobley. Sometimes Cavs might use Lauri same way as what Minnesota did with Love & Rubio and run 3 point pick&pop, but we will see.

Earlier in his career Lauri was bad at taking advantage of smaller defenders, but he improved on it last year quite much. He was very efficient post scorer (his defenders are usually smaller) and scorer in the paint in last year. He still was too unwilling to use this to his advantage, so hopefully Cavs can encourage him to do this more often. Easy baskets are always a good thing to a team and for a player scoring it.

Even though he was efficient at post I think if Cavs want to see Lauri to create his own shots, they need to give the ball to him on midrange where he can face the basket before making his move. If Cavs or they fans expect Lauri to create his own shots from behind the 3 point line they will be disappointed. I don't think Cavs will expect Lauri to create his shots, so with the exception of early season we might not see this too much.

Lauri still have a clear weakness when he have to play against physical players (both offense and defense). He just have to learn to be smarter on these situations. He quite often when he tries to dunk over people it just ends badly. He doesn't have the physicality or the ability to use it to power himself thought people. So when you see Lauri to choose to do layup where he moves away from defenders body instead of trying to dunk over him, that is usually a good thing. Because it increases the chance to ball end up in basket.

Physicality is also his biggest problem on defense. He isn't good at defending players who use physicality to create space. He does get beaten quite badly on these situations. But over all he is not a bad defender. It is hard to see player be a bad defender if the team's defense is better when he is on the court than he is off the court. He rarely will make the winning plays on defense though. Right now I would say he is average defender who has strengths and weaknesses.

But in the end. Sometimes when Lauri fails (be that on defense or on offense) he does succeed to fail spectacularly, so if you hate seeing those done by players you probably will hate Lauri. But if you like player who on average does good job even if he sometimes does those failures, then you probably won't hate Lauri.

[DroseReturnChi]

And I'm a bulls fan who is bittersweet about this trade

all you have to is unfollow stupid bigot team and follow the player. that franchise is doomed. no team has won after ditching their draft and hiring 3yr mercenaries. gs, lakers, bucks they all needed draft to win. cavs too lebron would not have come if not for kyrie.

[DroseReturnChi]

I like this trade.

Me too. A high-end talent having a chance to play with a competent PG.

Something the Bulls were never able to provide.

yep after rose was done what they had a hole for 10 yrs and even ball lauri would have suffered bc he plays less than 50 a game.
garland is more than enough sexton i hope doesnt pull zach and steal touches. i will be watching far more cavs than a stupid treadmill team. Lauri is pretty much rose 2.0. abandoned by own franchise will move few teams to team up with doncic.

funny how some guys say he can be 20/10 when he pretty much was one in 2nd yr and got dumped for no reason.

[DroseReturnChi]

And I'm a bulls fan who is bittersweet about this trade

Heres the thing though... Larry Nance is a better PF than LM and he was on a cheaper contract. This trade makes absolutly no sense and Koby Altman should fire himself for making it.

Markkanen is 4 years younger and offensively much more gifted. Nance will be for the rest of his career on a cheaper contract, for a reason.

Give the guy a break and see what happens.

like jesus christ i knew nothing abt nance since he was a scrub from lakers but the guy is 30 and barely plays 40 games.
Exactly worst type of player to have when your a rebuilding team.
i get that he is a franchise hero but raw stats lauri destroys this guy and he hasnt even scratched surface.

[JonFromVA]

Heres the thing though... Larry Nance is a better PF than LM and he was on a cheaper contract. This trade makes absolutly no sense and Koby Altman should fire himself for making it.

Markkanen is 4 years younger and offensively much more gifted. Nance will be for the rest of his career on a cheaper contract, for a reason.

Give the guy a break and see what happens.

like jesus christ i knew nothing abt nance since he was a scrub from lakers but the guy is 30 and barely plays 40 games.
Exactly worst type of player to have when your a rebuilding team.
i get that he is a franchise hero but raw stats lauri destroys this guy and he hasnt even scratched surface.

Other than being injury prone, Nance was near perfect in his role. He can help a team win. The Cavs are paying a hefty price to find out if Lauri can get there.

[KuruptedCav]

Moving on, at least his offensive gravity will allow Okoro to run at SF without destroying spacing.


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Or if we end up sliding Okoro to the 2 one day, it will help. But currently, we're still undersized 1-3, we got worse defensively at the 4, and the ability of Nance to switch out on smaller players is gone.

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No disagreement. Just thinking that Allen, LNJ, Okoro, Sexton, Garland was never going to be a good thing. Either production or evaluation.

The lack of spacing on the front line clogs the lane, let players cheat on the shooters because of backup, and limits assist.

With Lauri at the 4, the lane opens more and there is a third credible shooter, and we can actually get a read on Garland/Sexton/Okoro.

LNJ is the better and more versatile player on the better contract… but, with Love being Love and it being **** or get off the pot time on the recent picks…

Still don’t like it, but I get it.


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[jbk1234]

Nance didn't really like guarding wings on the perimeter, though.

We have options at SF with Okoro, Windler, Osman, ... and Mobley.

And while we lost defense at PF by trading Nance, we gained a ton (sooner or later) by adding Mobley.

If we buy-out Love, that'll be addition by subtraction on the defensive side even taking in to account his rebounding.

How the salaries all fit together is no less of a concern, but I would have slotted Nance in on a ~ $15M/yr extension when his current contract is up.

To me it all comes down to whether Markkanen is an NBA dinosaur ... a shooting specialist in the post-Ryan Anderson era ... or if a change of place, a new attitude, other bigs to protect him defensively, and PGs to run the show elevate him back on the development track he was on in his second season.

And even so, in a league where Doug McDermott just got paid $14M/yr ... shooting is apparently still in high demand.

I don't think Mobley can play SF. I'd love to be wrong though

I don't see limits on Mobley on D, but we need to see.

Play a zone and 2.5 mobile 7 footers can cover a lot of ground.

It's not just defense. Right now, he's best offensively as a back-to-the basket type of player. The Durant comparisons make me feel like I showed up to the party late and everyone is drunk already.

[KuruptedCav]

I don't think Mobley can play SF. I'd love to be wrong though

I don't see limits on Mobley on D, but we need to see.

Play a zone and 2.5 mobile 7 footers can cover a lot of ground.

It's not just defense. Right now, he's best offensively as a back-to-the basket type of player. The Durant comparisons make me feel like I showed up to the party late and everyone is drunk already.

It’s almost like Kevin Durant shot 40% on nearly 6 3FGAs per game, 80% from the charity stripe, on his way to averaging 11rpg and 25ppg against a 6SOS… and came out of Texas fairly refined as a player albeit physically underdeveloped.

While Evan Mobley shot 30% on 1.2 3FGAs on route to 16/8; and needs significant physical and player development and therefore cannot be easily projected.


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[JonFromVA]

I don't see limits on Mobley on D, but we need to see.

Play a zone and 2.5 mobile 7 footers can cover a lot of ground.

It's not just defense. Right now, he's best offensively as a back-to-the basket type of player. The Durant comparisons make me feel like I showed up to the party late and everyone is drunk already.

It’s almost like Kevin Durant shot 40% on nearly 6 3FGAs per game, 80% from the charity stripe, on his way to averaging 11rpg and 25ppg against a 6SOS… and came out of Texas fairly refined as a player albeit physically underdeveloped.

While Evan Mobley shot 30% on 1.2 3FGAs on route to 16/8; and needs significant physical and player development and therefore cannot be easily projected.

Let's not get sidetracked by a strawman. We're not replacing Kevin Durant, we're trying to replace Larry Nance Jr who could give us some minutes here and there in a big lineup at SF.

I don't see any reason we can't try the same with Allen, Mobley, and Markennen. If you'd prefer to call Lauri the SF in that grouping because he shoots well, whatever, that's just semantics.

[KuruptedCav]

It's not just defense. Right now, he's best offensively as a back-to-the basket type of player. The Durant comparisons make me feel like I showed up to the party late and everyone is drunk already.

It’s almost like Kevin Durant shot 40% on nearly 6 3FGAs per game, 80% from the charity stripe, on his way to averaging 11rpg and 25ppg against a 6SOS… and came out of Texas fairly refined as a player albeit physically underdeveloped.

While Evan Mobley shot 30% on 1.2 3FGAs on route to 16/8; and needs significant physical and player development and therefore cannot be easily projected.

Let's not get sidetracked by a strawman. We're not replacing Kevin Durant, we're trying to replace Larry Nance Jr who could give us some minutes here and there in a big lineup at SF.

I don't see any reason we can't try the same with Allen, Mobley, and Markennen. If you'd prefer to call Lauri the SF in that grouping because he shoots well, whatever, that's just semantics.

I’m just responding to the Durant comment and tempering some expectations.

I have no problem with Mobley playing some time at the 3. Don’t really care that he’d be a defensive sieve there. I’d play him there just so he doesn’t get constantly leaned on and beat up and injured.


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[Pentele]

It’s almost like Kevin Durant shot 40% on nearly 6 3FGAs per game, 80% from the charity stripe, on his way to averaging 11rpg and 25ppg against a 6SOS… and came out of Texas fairly refined as a player albeit physically underdeveloped.

While Evan Mobley shot 30% on 1.2 3FGAs on route to 16/8; and needs significant physical and player development and therefore cannot be easily projected.

Let's not get sidetracked by a strawman. We're not replacing Kevin Durant, we're trying to replace Larry Nance Jr who could give us some minutes here and there in a big lineup at SF.

I don't see any reason we can't try the same with Allen, Mobley, and Markennen. If you'd prefer to call Lauri the SF in that grouping because he shoots well, whatever, that's just semantics.

I’m just responding to the Durant comment and tempering some expectations.

I have no problem with Mobley playing some time at the 3. Don’t really care that he’d be a defensive sieve there. I’d play him there just so he doesn’t get constantly leaned on and beat up and injured.


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Although I have been a Bulls fan more or less all my life, I am also a Markkanen fan and I have now of course took interest to how things are with his new team. One thing I have been a bit surprised of is the assumption shared by many Cavs fans (not necessarily on this forum per se) that Lauri's arrival means setting Mobley's development back. The footage that I have seen of Mobley so far tell me that his body is not ready to NBA yet, and it would probably be wise to ease him in. Markkanen himself may be used as a warning example here. As a result of Portis punching Mirotic, Markkanen was gifted the starting spot immediately. Yes, he excelled in his first year, but there were also some back problems (not anymore as far as I am aware) and other minor issues due to the grueling schedule of NBA that certainly slowed him down. I consider him lucky; his physique was quite similar to Mobley and the Steven Adamses of the league threw him around quite a lot back then.

There is also something to be said for earning one's starting spot; a bit of internal competition can be a great source of motivation and it may prevent bad habits from forming (mostly, entitlement). That means also Lauri himself: he needs to constantly show with his own actions what's the difference between a rookie and an already somewhat established player in this league.

[JonFromVA]

It’s almost like Kevin Durant shot 40% on nearly 6 3FGAs per game, 80% from the charity stripe, on his way to averaging 11rpg and 25ppg against a 6SOS… and came out of Texas fairly refined as a player albeit physically underdeveloped.

While Evan Mobley shot 30% on 1.2 3FGAs on route to 16/8; and needs significant physical and player development and therefore cannot be easily projected.

Let's not get sidetracked by a strawman. We're not replacing Kevin Durant, we're trying to replace Larry Nance Jr who could give us some minutes here and there in a big lineup at SF.

I don't see any reason we can't try the same with Allen, Mobley, and Markennen. If you'd prefer to call Lauri the SF in that grouping because he shoots well, whatever, that's just semantics.

I’m just responding to the Durant comment and tempering some expectations.

I have no problem with Mobley playing some time at the 3. Don’t really care that he’d be a defensive sieve there. I’d play him there just so he doesn’t get constantly leaned on and beat up and injured.

I'm just not convinced there even was a Durant comment to temper. If there's anything to temper it's jbk1234's thought that Mobley is best used as a back to the basket player. IMO, we should protect Evan physically and find out what the upper-limits are of his skill level are by trying him in different roles. Just because some people say he's a C doesn't mean he is a C. He wasn't even used as a C at USC, and I wouldn't let how he was used there limit how we try to develop him.

[jbk1234]

Let's not get sidetracked by a strawman. We're not replacing Kevin Durant, we're trying to replace Larry Nance Jr who could give us some minutes here and there in a big lineup at SF.

I don't see any reason we can't try the same with Allen, Mobley, and Markennen. If you'd prefer to call Lauri the SF in that grouping because he shoots well, whatever, that's just semantics.

I’m just responding to the Durant comment and tempering some expectations.

I have no problem with Mobley playing some time at the 3. Don’t really care that he’d be a defensive sieve there. I’d play him there just so he doesn’t get constantly leaned on and beat up and injured.

I'm just not convinced there even was a Durant comment to temper. If there's anything to temper it's jbk1234's thought that Mobley is best used as a back to the basket player. IMO, we should protect Evan physically and find out what the upper-limits are of his skill level are by trying him in different roles. Just because some people say he's a C doesn't mean he is a C. He wasn't even used as a C at USC, and I wouldn't let how he was used there limit how we try to develop him.

Obviously the Cavs are going to do whatever they're going to do, I just think that bringing him of the bench at PF, at least until he adjusts to speed of the NBA, is the better plan than starting him day 1 at a position he's never played.

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[JonFromVA]

Let's not get sidetracked by a strawman. We're not replacing Kevin Durant, we're trying to replace Larry Nance Jr who could give us some minutes here and there in a big lineup at SF.

I don't see any reason we can't try the same with Allen, Mobley, and Markennen. If you'd prefer to call Lauri the SF in that grouping because he shoots well, whatever, that's just semantics.

I’m just responding to the Durant comment and tempering some expectations.

I have no problem with Mobley playing some time at the 3. Don’t really care that he’d be a defensive sieve there. I’d play him there just so he doesn’t get constantly leaned on and beat up and injured.


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Although I have been a Bulls fan more or less all my life, I am also a Markkanen fan and I have now of course took interest to how things are with his new team. One thing I have been a bit surprised of is the assumption shared by many Cavs fans (not necessarily on this forum per se) that Lauri's arrival means setting Mobley's development back. The footage that I have seen of Mobley so far tell me that his body is not ready to NBA yet, and it would probably be wise to ease him in. Markkanen himself may be used as a warning example here. As a result of Portis punching Mirotic, Markkanen was gifted the starting spot immediately. Yes, he excelled in his first year, but there were also some back problems (not anymore as far as I am aware) and other minor issues due to the grueling schedule of NBA that certainly slowed him down. I consider him lucky; his physique was quite similar to Mobley and the Steven Adamses of the league threw him around quite a lot back then.

There is also something to be said for earning one's starting spot; a bit of internal competition can be a great source of motivation and it may prevent bad habits from forming (mostly, entitlement). That means also Lauri himself: he needs to constantly show with his own actions what's the difference between a rookie and an already somewhat established player in this league.

Your points are valid, you're just missing some context. The Cavs have drafted 3 lottery picks in a row before Evan and force-fed all of them in to the starting lineup without requiring them to beat anyone out or prove they were ready (physically/mentally/whatever). So, it would just seem weird for them not to start Mobley who is higher rated than any of our other picks and considered a franchise caliber player.

[FranchisePlayer]

Markkanen is 4 years younger and offensively much more gifted. Nance will be for the rest of his career on a cheaper contract, for a reason.

Give the guy a break and see what happens.

like jesus christ i knew nothing abt nance since he was a scrub from lakers but the guy is 30 and barely plays 40 games.
Exactly worst type of player to have when your a rebuilding team.
i get that he is a franchise hero but raw stats lauri destroys this guy and he hasnt even scratched surface.

Other than being injury prone, Nance was near perfect in his role. He can help a team win. The Cavs are paying a hefty price to find out if Lauri can get there.

So help us out here: the triangle is Nance was a keeper, Markkanen was after a starter's role and there's Love with his unreal contract in Markkanen's way.

Why get rid of Nance, why acquire Markkanen? $67 million sounds a lot just to get some floor spacing and 3Ps here and there for 4 years with the expense of losing a consummate team player.

There's got to be more ambitious, even better motives behind this trade, right?