Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Grayson Extended - 2/$20 million

[randy84]

If I recall it was a heavily protected first round pick because Josh Smith was going to be a free agent. So it may or may not have been the "Giannis pick".

Don't remember anything about "heavily" protected, remember most speculation being lottery since we were so hard on for a playoff spot, but in any sense it just goes to show their investment towards the future at the time. Take Monta Ellis instead of Curry, try to trade for Josh freakin Smith, give up Tobes for JJ Redick.

Hammond sucked. He was certainly hamstrung to some (maybe even large) extent like a lot of GM's are but he stunk.

I'm the last guy that is going to defend Hammond or Horst. I think both got incredibly lucky. Don't forget that Horst is Hammond's protege.

The reality is that the Bucks won the championship because of what Giannis did and his improvements. If he played like this against Toronto two years ago the Bucks would've won the championship then. If he played like this last year, I think the Bucks may have beaten the Lakers.

I did find a link to the article about the Smith deal. https://www.brewhoop.com/2013/2/21/4014702/nba-trade-deadline-hawks-pull-out-of-josh-smith-deal-with-milwaukee

[giannis and 1]

As thankful as we all are for the drafting of Giannis and trading for Khris, does anyone believe that Hammond turns the 2016-17 roster into eventual NBA Champions?

Also, there seems to be a lack of credit to Horst to resign both Khris and Giannis, especially Giannis as it may have been one of the most difficult resignings in the history of the NBA as he was the most coveted player and teams were doing backflips to make room for him. Giannis spoke specifically about his relationship with Horst when he resigned.

Hammond provided the groundwork, Horst engineered a championship roster.

Dont think horst will ever be appreciated by this board no matter what hes accomplished.
I mean every year the bucks dont look good its fire horst signs a guy who doesnt work out its horst sucks can his ass.
Some of his decisions havnt worked out(im sure you can say that with every NBA gm) but the hate he gets on this board is amazing almost as much hate for anyone that says that DDV is not a starting 2 guard.

It's interesting that someone can simultaneously be impressed with Horst while thinking Donte, Horsts 1 true 1st round draft pick, isn't a high caliber player. Not judging, just find it interesting.

I like Horst, but that is in part because I feel there are no true great GMs. Presti is absolutely masterful at acquiring value, but hasn't shown he's can put the finishing touches on a championship team.

If you think there are no true great GMs in the NBA, you’d be appalled by the situation in the NHL. Basically just an old boys club. Aka a collection of senile old men.

[AussieBuck]

Hint-making things up doesn't make something factual.

As thankful as we all are for the drafting of Giannis and trading for Khris, does anyone believe that Hammond turns the 2016-17 roster into eventual NBA Champions?

Also, there seems to be a lack of credit to Horst to resign both Khris and Giannis, especially Giannis as it may have been one of the most difficult resignings in the history of the NBA as he was the most coveted player and teams were doing backflips to make room for him. Giannis spoke specifically about his relationship with Horst when he resigned.

Hammond provided the groundwork, Horst engineered a championship roster.

Dont think horst will ever be appreciated by this board no matter what hes accomplished.
I mean every year the bucks dont look good its fire horst signs a guy who doesnt work out its horst sucks can his ass.
Some of his decisions havnt worked out(im sure you can say that with every NBA gm) but the hate he gets on this board is amazing almost as much hate for anyone that says that DDV is not a starting 2 guard.

We just won a title with PJ Tucker pretending to be a starting 2 guard for the last two rounds.

[Milbucks96]

Idk what’s being argued here and I’m too lazy to go back but I agree Horst is super underrated in the fanbase and is clearly one of the best gms in the league. Having Giannis is a huge advantage but the disadvantages out-weigh that IMO. Cold, undesirable market with owners that will cheap out til they almost lose their superstar. Honestly getting Giannis to re-sign one year earlier than he had to is almost banner worthy lol.

[raferfenix]

If Hammond was all that as a GM you’d think he would have realized earlier that Magic team wasn’t going anywhere.

Not like that was so hard to see.

[raferfenix]

Best part of the Brew Hoop report on the Hawks pulling out of the Josh Smith trade is how obviously awful that move would have been:

As stated earlier, it's hard to know exactly what the Bucks' plans were relative to pursuing both Smith and Redick at the same time, but it would appear they were prepared to move forward with the trio of Smith, Ellis, and Brandon Jennings. There was widespread speculation that Milwaukee would look to retain such a trio of players, and frankly, it had me terrified. So in a sense, I'm relieved things fell through.

https://www.brewhoop.com/2013/2/21/4014702/nba-trade-deadline-hawks-pull-out-of-josh-smith-deal-with-milwaukee

[emunney]

As thankful as we all are for the drafting of Giannis and trading for Khris, does anyone believe that Hammond turns the 2016-17 roster into eventual NBA Champions?

Also, there seems to be a lack of credit to Horst to resign both Khris and Giannis, especially Giannis as it may have been one of the most difficult resignings in the history of the NBA as he was the most coveted player and teams were doing backflips to make room for him. Giannis spoke specifically about his relationship with Horst when he resigned.

Hammond provided the groundwork, Horst engineered a championship roster.

Dont think horst will ever be appreciated by this board no matter what hes accomplished.
I mean every year the bucks dont look good its fire horst signs a guy who doesnt work out its horst sucks can his ass.
Some of his decisions havnt worked out(im sure you can say that with every NBA gm) but the hate he gets on this board is amazing almost as much hate for anyone that says that DDV is not a starting 2 guard.

We just won a title with PJ Tucker pretending to be a starting 2 guard for the last two rounds.

Three rounds!

[thonnisbeastley]

Hammond was an atrocious GM with a couple of lucky hits over his 9 years in Milwaukee. The guy who once helped select Darko over Melo, Bosh, and Wade before moving on to Milwaukee and taking Joe Alexander with his very first pick. The guy who took Tobias and gave up on him as he was beginning to bud as a player for JJ Redick. The guy who took Parker > Embiid. The guy who wanted Jennings, Have-it-all, and Josh Smith as a big 3.

Sure, he picked Giannis. But he also picked Thon. Yeah he also got Middleton as a throw in with Brandon Knight, but he was targeting Brandon Knight...Never won a playoff series. Handed out terrible contracts that he used to trade for other terrible contracts on a perpetual hunt for the 8th seed.

Obviously, Hammond should still get some credit for acquiring Giannis, Middleton, and Brogdon. But it was what Horst did after the fact that led to a championship. Given Hammond's history, there's no doubt in my mind that he would've **** the roster up somehow and given us zero chance to upgrade or make moves the way we've been able to for the last few years. Horst has accomplished quite a bit with minimal assets. He was **** on for being an in-experienced, unproven and unknown nobody who shouldn't have been given the job of GM for a team beginning to show championship potential. But now he has won a championship, while improving the roster for the following season when it seemed like it was going to be almost impossible for us to do so given our CAP/roster situation. Pretty sure if we had brought in a more experienced guy who had accomplished all of this in the span of 4 years this board would be bending over backwards for the guy. Time to give Horst the credit he deserves.

[ReasonablySober]

Sure, he picked Giannis. But he also picked Thon. Yeah he also got Middleton as a throw in with Brandon Knight, but he was targeting Brandon Knight

You had me until I read this. Quality parody!

[RiotPunch]

Nate Hinton on a two-way, plz.

He's your Frank Ntilikina, isn't he? Personally I don't see it with him but wouldn't call myself an expert on him either. Anyways, we should be doing better with our two-ways than in the past. Mamu is a good start.

I do love him. His offense is a pretty massive project, but he has NBA-level defense, rebounding, and a truly elite motor/nose for the basketball as a foundation. His form seems decent enough for optimism though, certainly, if he's mainly asked to grow into the PJ role and only takes corner 3's.

[RogerMurdock]

How about this: Hammond was mostly crap, but he made arguably the two best moves in Bucks history. And Horst has been pretty darn good, but like any GM, has made some bad moves (some "meh" bad and some REALLY bad). Put the two together and there's your championship. Yay. No need to get all pissy if someone says one guy is like a 5 out of 10 when you think he's a 6 out of 10 or something.

[Pachinko_]

I will happily admit that I'm not qualified to understand what a GM does. Too many tax and legal rules, and too much meddling from the owners and the coach to the the point where I don't know if a Bucks GM actually does anything. I have no clue.

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[DrWood]

The guy who took Tobias and gave up on him as he was beginning to bud as a player for JJ Redick. The guy who took Parker > Embiid.

Tobias Harris did nothing as a Buck. If you argue that he should have known he was ready to blossom, you are arguing that he should have gotten rid of Kidd. Embiid was reasonably thought to be the next Greg Oden, so that's not damnable.

[DrWood]

Would be interested in a retrospective of worst Hammond moves.

Not sure if we can count non-moves like chasing Josh Smith, however, pairing Monta Ellis with Jennings and then trading Tobes for Redick (because who cares about defense I guess) was some real GM’ing.

You can't denigrate Reddick vs. Harris on defense. Neither are good.

[Daver]

In retrospect on that monta ellis trade i know someone will correct me if im wrong but at the rime of that trade werent both ellis and curry available.I lived out in vegas back then n i remember something that the dubs at the time were extremely worried about his ankles and swear i heard that he was available n the bucks had their pick between ellis n curry

[LuessiT]

Svi signs with the Raptors (1+1 PO). Seems like the dudes I'd target still are holding out for favorable contracts.

[Jez2983]

I have to say a dude coming onto this board and telling us what we spent hours debating was fiction, calling him 'Hammonds' unsarcastically, calling him the championship architect then downplaying the actual FO in charge for some years before we actually broke through is all pretty great.

[Jez2983]

In retrospect on that monta ellis trade i know someone will correct me if im wrong but at the rime of that trade werent both ellis and curry available.I lived out in vegas back then n i remember something that the dubs at the time were extremely worried about his ankles and swear i heard that he was available n the bucks had their pick between ellis n curry

From memory Kohl baulked at the idea of Curry due to his ankle history. Kohl was desperate to give fans success, to a fault. Unfortunately his idea of success was playoffs.

[emunney]

I have to say a dude coming onto this board and telling us what we spent hours debating was fiction, calling him 'Hammonds' unsarcastically, calling him the championship architect then downplaying the actual FO in charge for some years before we actually broke through is all pretty great.

Sometimes it's better to be loud than informed.

[midranger]

Thanks drafting Giannis. Also thanks for not being anywhere near my favorite team.

As long as roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden.