Best move/worst move: Cleveland Cavaliers

[jbk1234]

How many big men in the league would be on a value contract at that contract?

I think Allen will easily be a top 5-8 center in 2-3 years, the cap will be North of $120M, and these awful contract takes will look silly.

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Easily? Thats sort of preposterous.

Embiid, Jokic, Towns, Gobert, Ayton, Capela and Bam are nearly givens to be better. Then there are others who could have arguments.

I just don't see Allen as a true game changer, especially at that money. I hope for Cleveland he makes a massive leap and becomes worth the contract.

I don't agree with Bam or Capela as *givens to be better.* Also, Bam is already on a max deal and Capela's deal is for a couple of million less per.

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[K_chile22]

I think Allen will easily be a top 5-8 center in 2-3 years, the cap will be North of $120M, and these awful contract takes will look silly.

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Easily? Thats sort of preposterous.

Embiid, Jokic, Towns, Gobert, Ayton, Capela and Bam are nearly givens to be better. Then there are others who could have arguments.

I just don't see Allen as a true game changer, especially at that money. I hope for Cleveland he makes a massive leap and becomes worth the contract.

I don't agree with Bam or Capela as *givens to be better.* Also, Bam is already on a max deal and Capela's deal is for a couple of million less per.

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If Allen is better then Bam in 3 years I'd be absolutely stunned. Bam is far better and just a year older. He's worth his deal.

Capela is also better than Allen and was more proven when he got his deal.. That was about $5M AAV less than Allen's, we're just on the backend now. In a market free of outside factors Capela should be making more than Allen, though it is possible Allen is better than him in three years if Capela starts to fall off athletically

[Texas Chuck]

Hey if Allen has wildly unexpected growth and becomes Bam, this contract will be a major bargain. Seems like a very unrealistic expectation but I don't ever want to stop people from being high on their own young players. If he can even become Capela the contract will be fine despite him making quite a bit more than Capela. Again we don't have any evidence that suggests he has Capela's defensive instincts, but maybe.

Based on what we know now, it's definitely appropriate to question that contract and to question having given up value to put yourself into a position where you felt obligated to pay him. Trust me after dodging the Noel bullet and not dodging the KP one, I know all about this.

[Stillwater]

Hey if Allen has wildly unexpected growth and becomes Bam, this contract will be a major bargain. Seems like a very unrealistic expectation but I don't ever want to stop people from being high on their own young players. If he can even become Capela the contract will be fine despite him making quite a bit more than Capela. Again we don't have any evidence that suggests he has Capela's defensive instincts, but maybe.

Based on what we know now, it's definitely appropriate to question that contract and to question having given up value to put yourself into a position where you felt obligated to pay him. Trust me after dodging the Noel bullet and not dodging the KP one, I know all about this.

It's an overpay but without irrational optimism mixed with rational confidence in your development team to justify the cost ,none of these younger players would stay and or improve until they left. The Cavs for all their faults are doing a decent job at developing and it's not just a label to mask over tanking either.

[Texas Chuck]

. The Cavs for all their faults are doing a decent job at developing and it's not just a label to mask over tanking either.

They are? Sexton and Garland are good young players, but they were also drafted very high. I wouldn't call that a product of player development as much as a good job identifying a couple of guys who can play. But where are the young contributors not picked at the top of the lottery? I don't see any of these guys really. Help me see who I'm missing maybe?

[Stillwater]

. The Cavs for all their faults are doing a decent job at developing and it's not just a label to mask over tanking either.

They are? Sexton and Garland are good young players, but they were also drafted very high. I wouldn't call that a product of player development as much as a good job identifying a couple of guys who can play. But where are the young contributors not picked at the top of the lottery? I don't see any of these guys really. Help me see who I'm missing maybe?

what other team gifts 48 minutes a game to rookies? They are developing their core by giving them meaningful pt against the best of the league. I mean if you want to say only players drafted non lottery need development yet most of them don't develop because they are on the bench with better vets eating minutes I dont know what to tell you since most of the the lottery picks outside the top 3 always need a ton of development or are the exception.

[toooskies]

. The Cavs for all their faults are doing a decent job at developing and it's not just a label to mask over tanking either.

They are? Sexton and Garland are good young players, but they were also drafted very high. I wouldn't call that a product of player development as much as a good job identifying a couple of guys who can play. But where are the young contributors not picked at the top of the lottery? I don't see any of these guys really. Help me see who I'm missing maybe?

Sexton is already the third best #8 pick of the past 20 years. I say that not to pump up Sexton but to let you know how easily that range of pick can fail.

[Texas Chuck]

. The Cavs for all their faults are doing a decent job at developing and it's not just a label to mask over tanking either.

They are? Sexton and Garland are good young players, but they were also drafted very high. I wouldn't call that a product of player development as much as a good job identifying a couple of guys who can play. But where are the young contributors not picked at the top of the lottery? I don't see any of these guys really. Help me see who I'm missing maybe?

Sexton is already the third best #8 pick of the past 20 years. I say that not to pump up Sexton but to let you know how easily that range of pick can fail.

That doesn't show me much about that range of pick, but rather a random sampling of a specific pick.

That said, the point you are attempting to make is a good one. No doubt Sexton has overachieved to date on his expected value based on draft position. But when the only young players since Kyrie to have really broken out in Cleveland are two high picks, I'm not prepared to say Cleveland does a good job developing young players. Not that they are alone in this by any means. Just that I'm not ready to buy into them as a Miami or Toronto for instance.

[toooskies]

They are? Sexton and Garland are good young players, but they were also drafted very high. I wouldn't call that a product of player development as much as a good job identifying a couple of guys who can play. But where are the young contributors not picked at the top of the lottery? I don't see any of these guys really. Help me see who I'm missing maybe?

Sexton is already the third best #8 pick of the past 20 years. I say that not to pump up Sexton but to let you know how easily that range of pick can fail.

That doesn't show me much about that range of pick, but rather a random sampling of a specific pick.

That said, the point you are attempting to make is a good one. No doubt Sexton has overachieved to date on his expected value based on draft position. But when the only young players since Kyrie to have really broken out in Cleveland are two high picks, I'm not prepared to say Cleveland does a good job developing young players. Not that they are alone in this by any means. Just that I'm not ready to buy into them as a Miami or Toronto for instance.

Cleveland hasn’t really made picks outside the lottery. Other than Windler and KPJ, who aren’t development failures exactly. All the Lebron era assets that were tradeable were traded.

[HartfordWhalers]

Best: not trading Sexton for crap, any of the top 5 would have been good choices so not going to give them much credit for that
Worst: not getting an asset for Nance yet

Love, it doesn't matter when they do something. He's cooked anyway, but Nance is on the clock.

This is exactly where I am. Best is keeping Sexton over an older player in a trade. When you are a bottom ___ team you need talent not fit. Worst is keeping Nance. I get that you need some adults in the room, but they can be guys without tradable value signed just for that purpose.

[toooskies]

Best: not trading Sexton for crap, any of the top 5 would have been good choices so not going to give them much credit for that
Worst: not getting an asset for Nance yet

Love, it doesn't matter when they do something. He's cooked anyway, but Nance is on the clock.

This is exactly where I am. Best is keeping Sexton over an older player in a trade. When you are a bottom ___ team you need talent not fit. Worst is keeping Nance. I get that you need some adults in the room, but they can be guys without tradable value signed just for that purpose.

Hard to put a value on non-ironically wanting to be in Cleveland.

[Michael Jackson]

Best: Anytime you get rid of god awful Prince and return a legit NBA rotation player who is also a great locker room guy you are way ahead of the game.

Worst: Cavs fans better hope that it's the Allen deal and not the passing of Suggs. That said, Mobley is going to be great as well.

I love Suggs that being said for the Cavs Mobley made more sense. 99 times out of 100 I take Suggs over him but this is that one case where you don't.

[toooskies]

Best: not trading Sexton for crap, any of the top 5 would have been good choices so not going to give them much credit for that
Worst: not getting an asset for Nance yet

Love, it doesn't matter when they do something. He's cooked anyway, but Nance is on the clock.

This is exactly where I am. Best is keeping Sexton over an older player in a trade. When you are a bottom ___ team you need talent not fit. Worst is keeping Nance. I get that you need some adults in the room, but they can be guys without tradable value signed just for that purpose.

Hard to put a value on non-ironically wanting to be in Cleveland.

This did not age well!

[tidho]

Hard to put a value on non-ironically wanting to be in Cleveland.

This did not age well!

To be fair, wanting to be in Cleveland wasn't the issue. Wanting to play for the Cavaliers was the part that didn't hold up.

[shakes0]

Best: Anytime you get rid of god awful Prince and return a legit NBA rotation player who is also a great locker room guy you are way ahead of the game.

Worst: Cavs fans better hope that it's the Allen deal and not the passing of Suggs. That said, Mobley is going to be great as well.

I love Suggs that being said for the Cavs Mobley made more sense. 99 times out of 100 I take Suggs over him but this is that one case where you don't.

I disagree with that. IMO, the only time you don't take BPA is if the player is pigeon holed to a position where you already have a superstar or superstar in making. For instance, if Atlanta had the #2 pick the year Zion when #1 I would've been ok with them passing on the clear #2 prospect (Morant) since him and Trae play the exact same position and Trae was on his way to stardom.

But in this situation, there is no one on Cleveland at guard who is so good that you would excuse passing on Suggs.

All that said, the reason I said that Cleveland could still end up regretting the Allen deal more is because there is definitely a chance that Mobley ends up better than Suggs. So I definitely think it's close between them. But, as you said, you would take Suggs 99/100 times over Mobley. That means you clearly believe that Suggs is better than Mobley. Based on that, I don't follow your logic that this is the 1/100 times you would take Mobley over Suggs.

[toooskies]

Best: Anytime you get rid of god awful Prince and return a legit NBA rotation player who is also a great locker room guy you are way ahead of the game.

Worst: Cavs fans better hope that it's the Allen deal and not the passing of Suggs. That said, Mobley is going to be great as well.

I love Suggs that being said for the Cavs Mobley made more sense. 99 times out of 100 I take Suggs over him but this is that one case where you don't.

I disagree with that. IMO, the only time you don't take BPA is if the player is pigeon holed to a position where you already have a superstar or superstar in making. For instance, if Atlanta had the #2 pick the year Zion when #1 I would've been ok with them passing on the clear #2 prospect (Morant) since him and Trae play the exact same position and Trae was on his way to stardom.

But in this situation, there is no one on Cleveland at guard who is so good that you would excuse passing on Suggs.

All that said, the reason I said that Cleveland could still end up regretting the Allen deal more is because there is definitely a chance that Mobley ends up better than Suggs. So I definitely think it's close between them. But, as you said, you would take Suggs 99/100 times over Mobley. That means you clearly believe that Suggs is better than Mobley. Based on that, I don't follow your logic that this is the 1/100 times you would take Mobley over Suggs.

I don't see any evidence that Suggs even worked out with the Cavs-- just that he turned down the Rockets and did poorly in a Toronto workout. So regardless of what your personal draft board said, the Cavs were homing in on either Mobley, Green, or Kuminga. The draft-day Rubio trade also lends credence to the fact that the Cavs knew they weren't taking a guard at #3.

[Michael Jackson]

Best: Anytime you get rid of god awful Prince and return a legit NBA rotation player who is also a great locker room guy you are way ahead of the game.

Worst: Cavs fans better hope that it's the Allen deal and not the passing of Suggs. That said, Mobley is going to be great as well.

I love Suggs that being said for the Cavs Mobley made more sense. 99 times out of 100 I take Suggs over him but this is that one case where you don't.

I disagree with that. IMO, the only time you don't take BPA is if the player is pigeon holed to a position where you already have a superstar or superstar in making. For instance, if Atlanta had the #2 pick the year Zion when #1 I would've been ok with them passing on the clear #2 prospect (Morant) since him and Trae play the exact same position and Trae was on his way to stardom.

But in this situation, there is no one on Cleveland at guard who is so good that you would excuse passing on Suggs.

All that said, the reason I said that Cleveland could still end up regretting the Allen deal more is because there is definitely a chance that Mobley ends up better than Suggs. So I definitely think it's close between them. But, as you said, you would take Suggs 99/100 times over Mobley. That means you clearly believe that Suggs is better than Mobley. Based on that, I don't follow your logic that this is the 1/100 times you would take Mobley over Suggs.

Suggs isn’t clearly better though, just my favorite. Harder to develop him too with other assets in the same spot. I do agree though you draft BPA if you don’t, just ask Portland how they feel about Bowie over Jordan. For me Suggs seems to be in a more valued position in the NBA today. That is still a coin toss though and the roster favors taking the chance on Mobley and his potential which is absolutely intriguing. With the Hawks analogy I still take Ja, but I was then and still am a Ja fanboy.

[DroseReturnChi]

now that its final.
best move: getting lauri for free
worst move: not getting rid of collin sexton to make room for lauri

[daoneandonly]

Worst: Adding a player that doesnt fit, overpaying him in the process, and giving up a solid guy to do so. Makes zero sense every way you slice it.

I've beaten this horse as much as I can, because I believe its true. Lauri Markanan = Charlie V

[pacers33granger]

now that its final.
best move: getting lauri for free
worst move: not getting rid of collin sexton to make room for lauri

They did not get Lauri for free. They overpaid him and gave up a player worth a first to do so. Also not sure how Sexton factors in at all, especially considering he's a far better player.

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