2021-22 regular season thread

[mcfly1204]

Spoiler alert: The team is not going to sit Love on the bench for 2 years...

[JonFromVA]

I hope the Cavs are considering what it means that Larry Nance actually requested a trade. It's becoming a pattern of big men wanting out.

There may be more to it, but IMO getting the rights to Mobley was a reset for the rebuild. We"re on his timeline now, and all Larry would be is a mentor/helper for a couple years.

This news does explain why we were willing to accept Larry's base trade value ... and then we got clever about it and turned it in to Lauri because that's what the Cavs do.

A lot of fans are convinced Lauri has only one NBA skill, but guys who just shoot don't tend to put up 19 & 9 or put up the kind of games Lauri has, so I'm buying the idea that the Bulls shut him down and he bulked up too much.

Finding depressed assets is where talent evaluators earn their salary ... here's hoping they got this one right ... and even if they didn't volume 3pt shooters are still pricey.

I like Dean Wade but he's the same age as Lauri, and has made a tiny fraction of the 3pters that Lauri has.

We could have had Reddish or one of the other wings being dangled for a first rounder, but the Cavs preferred a player under contract and Lauri chose to come here. That all matters.

Whatever is coming next, don't expect to hear about it in advance. Altman's move have been stealthy.

In a vacuum, I'm fine with Lauri's deal. McDermott, J. Harris, and Bertans indicate that's his market. Two of those three guys come off the bench though and that's probably Lauri's long term fit here.

It's also a good thing to start a 19-year old big man like Mobley off the bench. But, I don't believe we're good enough defensively 1-3 to start Lauri and that's a problem if you wanted to see the team become more competitive this year.

If you believe Sexton is going to make a significant jump on the defensive side of the ball, and has learned his lesson from his second season, when he treated Love like a $30M decoy, then you can squint and see maginal overall improvement by replacing Nance with Lauri.

If you don't believe those things are going to happen, then, well you're at where I'm at.

Everything is contingent on improvement, including things like Lauri losing some weight to increase his mobility and being able to hold his own defensively with Allen or Mobley to help him. I see Lauri coming in off the bench just like I see Rubio, but that can certainly change based on reality.

All our young players need to take steps in their development, but if Mobley is the real deal we can wait on him while giving the other guys enough time to become competent at their roles and/or trade them for players who are competent at their roles.

I realize we're on the clock with Collin, but nobody said a player's improvement curve was going to lineup with contract considerations or that it would even be step-by-step linear from year to year. I'd feel a lot better if I knew Dan Gilbert was spending everything he could for the best talent evaluation and player development, but I get the impression he prefers to grow from within or perhaps the league has been asked that owners not upset the salary structure for these assistants.

If Altman and gang fail on talent evaluation and/or patience ... well ... there's more lottery picks in our future. We're not all in battling for the 4th seed and a 1st or 2nd round exit like the Knicks and Bulls.

[jbk1234]

There may be more to it, but IMO getting the rights to Mobley was a reset for the rebuild. We"re on his timeline now, and all Larry would be is a mentor/helper for a couple years.

This news does explain why we were willing to accept Larry's base trade value ... and then we got clever about it and turned it in to Lauri because that's what the Cavs do.

A lot of fans are convinced Lauri has only one NBA skill, but guys who just shoot don't tend to put up 19 & 9 or put up the kind of games Lauri has, so I'm buying the idea that the Bulls shut him down and he bulked up too much.

Finding depressed assets is where talent evaluators earn their salary ... here's hoping they got this one right ... and even if they didn't volume 3pt shooters are still pricey.

I like Dean Wade but he's the same age as Lauri, and has made a tiny fraction of the 3pters that Lauri has.

We could have had Reddish or one of the other wings being dangled for a first rounder, but the Cavs preferred a player under contract and Lauri chose to come here. That all matters.

Whatever is coming next, don't expect to hear about it in advance. Altman's move have been stealthy.

In a vacuum, I'm fine with Lauri's deal. McDermott, J. Harris, and Bertans indicate that's his market. Two of those three guys come off the bench though and that's probably Lauri's long term fit here.

It's also a good thing to start a 19-year old big man like Mobley off the bench. But, I don't believe we're good enough defensively 1-3 to start Lauri and that's a problem if you wanted to see the team become more competitive this year.

If you believe Sexton is going to make a significant jump on the defensive side of the ball, and has learned his lesson from his second season, when he treated Love like a $30M decoy, then you can squint and see maginal overall improvement by replacing Nance with Lauri.

If you don't believe those things are going to happen, then, well you're at where I'm at.

Everything is contingent on improvement, including things like Lauri losing some weight to increase his mobility and being able to hold his own defensively with Allen or Mobley to help him. I see Lauri coming in off the bench just like I see Rubio, but that can certainly change based on reality.

All our young players need to take steps in their development, but if Mobley is the real deal we can wait on him while giving the other guys enough time to become competent at their roles and/or trade them for players who are competent at their roles.

I realize we're on the clock with Collin, but nobody said a player's improvement curve was going to lineup with contract considerations or that it would even be step-by-step linear from year to year. I'd feel a lot better if I knew Dan Gilbert was spending everything he could for the best talent evaluation and player development, but I get the impression he prefers to grow from within or perhaps the league has been asked that owners not upset the salary structure for these assistants.

If Altman and gang fail on talent evaluation and/or patience ... well ... there's more lottery picks in our future. We're not all in battling for the 4th seed and a 1st or 2nd round exit like the Knicks and Bulls.

Patience can be a double-edged sword. There were clearly times where the Cavs were patient to a fault with Sexton and now they're trying to see if he can be motivated to play defense and play within a structured offense during a contract year. There's a lot more ways for that to go wrong than right and Sexton has more say than the Cavs on that front.

A big part of whether Sexton improves in the areas we're still talking about is whether he's motivated to do that, and the Cavs are limited in how they can motivate him now without it all going sideways.

To the extent any of what's going on now is the fault of the Cavs F.O., I go back to Sexton's second year under Beilein when the bench should've been used as a motivational tool and was not. You let a player worry about nothing but scoring his first three years in league, that's hard to fix in year four when he's looking to get paid (and this assumes it's fixable for that player).

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[jbk1234]

Spoiler alert: The team is not going to sit Love on the bench for 2 years...

No, but he'll likely be coming off the bench with Mobley and Rubio until the deadline.

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[mg]

Spoiler alert: The team is not going to sit Love on the bench for 2 years...

No, but he'll likely be coming off the bench with Mobley and Rubio until the deadline.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

I somehow doubt it..
If he's not bought out which doesn't appear will be the case, I think there's a stronger chance Love is sitting home by the time we hit the holidays.

[JonFromVA]

In a vacuum, I'm fine with Lauri's deal. McDermott, J. Harris, and Bertans indicate that's his market. Two of those three guys come off the bench though and that's probably Lauri's long term fit here.

It's also a good thing to start a 19-year old big man like Mobley off the bench. But, I don't believe we're good enough defensively 1-3 to start Lauri and that's a problem if you wanted to see the team become more competitive this year.

If you believe Sexton is going to make a significant jump on the defensive side of the ball, and has learned his lesson from his second season, when he treated Love like a $30M decoy, then you can squint and see maginal overall improvement by replacing Nance with Lauri.

If you don't believe those things are going to happen, then, well you're at where I'm at.

Everything is contingent on improvement, including things like Lauri losing some weight to increase his mobility and being able to hold his own defensively with Allen or Mobley to help him. I see Lauri coming in off the bench just like I see Rubio, but that can certainly change based on reality.

All our young players need to take steps in their development, but if Mobley is the real deal we can wait on him while giving the other guys enough time to become competent at their roles and/or trade them for players who are competent at their roles.

I realize we're on the clock with Collin, but nobody said a player's improvement curve was going to lineup with contract considerations or that it would even be step-by-step linear from year to year. I'd feel a lot better if I knew Dan Gilbert was spending everything he could for the best talent evaluation and player development, but I get the impression he prefers to grow from within or perhaps the league has been asked that owners not upset the salary structure for these assistants.

If Altman and gang fail on talent evaluation and/or patience ... well ... there's more lottery picks in our future. We're not all in battling for the 4th seed and a 1st or 2nd round exit like the Knicks and Bulls.

Patience can be a double-edged sword. There were clearly times where the Cavs were patient to a fault with Sexton and now they're trying to see if he can be motivated to play defense and play within a structured offense during a contract year. There's a lot more ways for that to go wrong than right and Sexton has more say than the Cavs on that front.

A big part of whether Sexton improves in the areas we're still talking about is whether he's motivated to do that, and the Cavs are limited in how they can motivate him now without it all going sideways.

To the extent any of what's going on now is the fault of the Cavs F.O., I go back to Sexton's second year under Beilein when the bench should've been used as a motivational tool and was not. You let a player worry about nothing but scoring his first three years in league, that's hard to fix in year four when he's looking to get paid (and this assumes it's fixable for that player).

There are no perfect players, you have to work with what you've got ... at least until you can trade them for something better.

Collin has a role on this team because he can create his own shot, score and even create in a complimentary role.

Worry about him doing that.

Let Mobley, Allen, Okoro, and Rubio focus on trying to shore up our defense.

[jbk1234]

Spoiler alert: The team is not going to sit Love on the bench for 2 years...

No, but he'll likely be coming off the bench with Mobley and Rubio until the deadline.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

I somehow doubt it..
If he's not bought out which doesn't appear will be the case, I think there's a stronger chance Love is sitting home by the time we hit the holidays.

I mean at some point, and I think we're there, Love has to at least show enough off the bench that a contender wants to use a roster spot on him. I don't think he wants to end his career in Cleveland not playing.

[jbk1234]

Everything is contingent on improvement, including things like Lauri losing some weight to increase his mobility and being able to hold his own defensively with Allen or Mobley to help him. I see Lauri coming in off the bench just like I see Rubio, but that can certainly change based on reality.

All our young players need to take steps in their development, but if Mobley is the real deal we can wait on him while giving the other guys enough time to become competent at their roles and/or trade them for players who are competent at their roles.

I realize we're on the clock with Collin, but nobody said a player's improvement curve was going to lineup with contract considerations or that it would even be step-by-step linear from year to year. I'd feel a lot better if I knew Dan Gilbert was spending everything he could for the best talent evaluation and player development, but I get the impression he prefers to grow from within or perhaps the league has been asked that owners not upset the salary structure for these assistants.

If Altman and gang fail on talent evaluation and/or patience ... well ... there's more lottery picks in our future. We're not all in battling for the 4th seed and a 1st or 2nd round exit like the Knicks and Bulls.

Patience can be a double-edged sword. There were clearly times where the Cavs were patient to a fault with Sexton and now they're trying to see if he can be motivated to play defense and play within a structured offense during a contract year. There's a lot more ways for that to go wrong than right and Sexton has more say than the Cavs on that front.

A big part of whether Sexton improves in the areas we're still talking about is whether he's motivated to do that, and the Cavs are limited in how they can motivate him now without it all going sideways.

To the extent any of what's going on now is the fault of the Cavs F.O., I go back to Sexton's second year under Beilein when the bench should've been used as a motivational tool and was not. You let a player worry about nothing but scoring his first three years in league, that's hard to fix in year four when he's looking to get paid (and this assumes it's fixable for that player).

There are no perfect players, you have to work with what you've got ... at least until you can trade them for something better.

Collin has a role on this team because he can create his own shot, score and even create in a complimentary role.

Worry about him doing that.

Let Mobley, Allen, Okoro, and Rubio focus on trying to shore up our defense.

The Cavs don't have the luxury of not worrying about Sexton's defense if he's going to start. I'm sorry they just don't. LBJ isn't here to run an offense along with Shump or JR being able to take the more difficult assignments. I understand Sexton's physical limitations and I'm not asking him to overcome them to become a plus defender. I'm asking him to become a passable one due to effort and prioritizing it in a way that he hasn't.

I'm not asking him to become a true PG. He won't. I am asking to recognize that he can't drive to the rim on five consecutive possessions and have the team still run a functional offense. It would be nice if he understands that we didn't trade for Lauri just so Lauri could provide him with additional spacing. We actually want some pick and pops or passes back out to the perimeter.

The only hope I have at this point is that his agent told him to worry about getting his in order to get paid, and now that the league has become more sophisticated, now that Miami and the Knicks have both tied up their books, he understands it's not that simple.

But just pay people now, and hope to trade them for better players later, isn't something I can get on board with in every scenario.

[JonFromVA]

Patience can be a double-edged sword. There were clearly times where the Cavs were patient to a fault with Sexton and now they're trying to see if he can be motivated to play defense and play within a structured offense during a contract year. There's a lot more ways for that to go wrong than right and Sexton has more say than the Cavs on that front.

A big part of whether Sexton improves in the areas we're still talking about is whether he's motivated to do that, and the Cavs are limited in how they can motivate him now without it all going sideways.

To the extent any of what's going on now is the fault of the Cavs F.O., I go back to Sexton's second year under Beilein when the bench should've been used as a motivational tool and was not. You let a player worry about nothing but scoring his first three years in league, that's hard to fix in year four when he's looking to get paid (and this assumes it's fixable for that player).

There are no perfect players, you have to work with what you've got ... at least until you can trade them for something better.

Collin has a role on this team because he can create his own shot, score and even create in a complimentary role.

Worry about him doing that.

Let Mobley, Allen, Okoro, and Rubio focus on trying to shore up our defense.

The Cavs don't have the luxury of not worrying about Sexton's defense if he's going to start. I'm sorry they just don't. LBJ isn't here to run an offense along with Shump or JR being able to take the more difficult assignments. I understand Sexton's physical limitations and I'm not asking him to overcome them to become a plus defender. I'm asking him to become a passable one due to effort and prioritizing it in a way that he hasn't.

I'm not asking him to become a true PG. He won't. I am asking to recognize that he can't drive to the rim on five consecutive possessions and have the team still run a functional offense. It would be nice if he understands that we didn't trade for Lauri just so Lauri could provide him with additional spacing. We actually want some pick and pops or passes back out to the perimeter.

The only hope I have at this point is that his agent told him to worry about getting his in order to get paid, and now that the league has become more sophisticated, now that Miami and the Knicks have both tied up their books, he understands it's not that simple.

But just pay people now, and hope to trade them for better players later, isn't something I can get on board with in every scenario.

We should have alternatives if we don't like how any particular player is playing next season. Its one thing when Collin would ignore Windler coming off a screen because he had already made up his mind to drive - and him failing to pass the ball to a wide open Markkanen. If he does that - we sit him down for Rubio and let him watch what we want to happen until he gets it.

Same thing for Garland. If the only offense he can figure out how to create is lobs and floaters, we will let Rubio show what can be done.

It's just so much harder with lousy floor spacing. Having some legit (healthy) shooters and an experienced PG will let us have expectations.

[LivingLegend]

Spoiler alert: The team is not going to sit Love on the bench for 2 years...

Where does his mins come from then?

He could get 10-15mins per game off the bench essentially in Dean Wades role last year--BUT Dean Wade with another year of development under his belt is probably a comparable player to Love at this point in his career.

OR we could start him at PF for 1/2 the season and bring Mobley/Lauri slowly off the bench until the deadline and then try to renegotiate the buyout then and move Mobley/Lauri to the starting spot after Love is gone.

[jbk1234]

Spoiler alert: The team is not going to sit Love on the bench for 2 years...

Where does his mins come from then?

He could get 10-15mins per game off the bench essentially in Dean Wades role last year--BUT Dean Wade with another year of development under his belt is probably a comparable player to Love at this point in his career.

OR we could start him at PF for 1/2 the season and bring Mobley/Lauri slowly off the bench until the deadline and then try to renegotiate the buyout then and move Mobley/Lauri to the starting spot after Love is gone.

I actually think Love, Mobley, and Rubio is the foundation of a solid second unit. Supposedly, Love and his agent believe he can play his trade value up off the bench. I see no harm in giving him a shot, assuming he's healthy and in shape when he reports for training camp.

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[LivingLegend]

Spoiler alert: The team is not going to sit Love on the bench for 2 years...

Where does his mins come from then?

He could get 10-15mins per game off the bench essentially in Dean Wades role last year--BUT Dean Wade with another year of development under his belt is probably a comparable player to Love at this point in his career.

OR we could start him at PF for 1/2 the season and bring Mobley/Lauri slowly off the bench until the deadline and then try to renegotiate the buyout then and move Mobley/Lauri to the starting spot after Love is gone.

I actually think Love, Mobley, and Rubio is the foundation of a solid second unit. Supposedly, Love and his agent believe he can play his trade value up off the bench. I see no harm in giving him a shot, assuming he's healthy and in shape when he reports for training camp.

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I mean he also went to Team USA to build up his trade value and he was literally cut from the roster from being 1) Bad and 2) Out of Shape.

He can say all he wants, but the fact is he should have been spending the past 3 years building up his value but instead he has absolutely tanked it. I dont think coming off the bench and averaging 12/8 is really going to entice anybody to trade for that contract.

[JonFromVA]

Where does his mins come from then?

He could get 10-15mins per game off the bench essentially in Dean Wades role last year--BUT Dean Wade with another year of development under his belt is probably a comparable player to Love at this point in his career.

OR we could start him at PF for 1/2 the season and bring Mobley/Lauri slowly off the bench until the deadline and then try to renegotiate the buyout then and move Mobley/Lauri to the starting spot after Love is gone.

I actually think Love, Mobley, and Rubio is the foundation of a solid second unit. Supposedly, Love and his agent believe he can play his trade value up off the bench. I see no harm in giving him a shot, assuming he's healthy and in shape when he reports for training camp.

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I mean he also went to Team USA to build up his trade value and he was literally cut from the roster from being 1) Bad and 2) Out of Shape.

He can say all he wants, but the fact is he should have been spending the past 3 years building up his value but instead he has absolutely tanked it. I dont think coming off the bench and averaging 12/8 is really going to entice anybody to trade for that contract.

I'm not sure averaging 20 & 10 again is going to convince anyone to pickup that contract, but every little bit helps, especially if the Cavs can pull off a bigger deal where Love doesn't have to do much more than help us absorb some other contract.

On one hand it would be nice for Love to show he's willing to play minutes at C, and on the other ... he'll probably just hurt himself that much faster.

Anyway, we it would be nice if we could be so blessed to not need significant minutes from guys like Love, Wade, and Kabengele; but I wouldn't count on it.

[jbk1234]

Where does his mins come from then?

He could get 10-15mins per game off the bench essentially in Dean Wades role last year--BUT Dean Wade with another year of development under his belt is probably a comparable player to Love at this point in his career.

OR we could start him at PF for 1/2 the season and bring Mobley/Lauri slowly off the bench until the deadline and then try to renegotiate the buyout then and move Mobley/Lauri to the starting spot after Love is gone.

I actually think Love, Mobley, and Rubio is the foundation of a solid second unit. Supposedly, Love and his agent believe he can play his trade value up off the bench. I see no harm in giving him a shot, assuming he's healthy and in shape when he reports for training camp.

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I mean he also went to Team USA to build up his trade value and he was literally cut from the roster from being 1) Bad and 2) Out of Shape.

He can say all he wants, but the fact is he should have been spending the past 3 years building up his value but instead he has absolutely tanked it. I dont think coming off the bench and averaging 12/8 is really going to entice anybody to trade for that contract.

Even if he tries and fails, then there's value in having given him his one last shot when it comes down to talking numbers in a buyout scenario. If he feels like we've deprived him of the opportunity of a come back he'll be less reasonable.

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[jbk1234]

This is not a sign that Love is going to be taking a buyout anytime soon. The Cavs still have to shed about $200k to stay under the luxury tax line by my count.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[Harper4Ferry?]

I'm seeing it as the cavs are slightly less than 5million under the tax and 11 million under the apron?

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/cap/

[jbk1234]

I'm seeing it as the cavs are slightly less than 5million under the tax and 11 million under the apron?

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/cap/

Yeah, I don't know what to make of Smitty's tweet. He's usually pretty good with his cap analysis. Spotrac does sometimes get it wrong.

[jbk1234]

I just have to say that fans of teams who want K. Love on the minimum saying we should just wave him on the GB are making me see red. The NBA is very close to being broken, and if Love and his agent get their way on this, that seems like a crossing of the Rubicon to me. Either NBA contracts require players to actually try for the teams that are obligated to pay them, or not. If buy me out for my full $60M with two years left becomes the new normal, there's no way to have a functional league.

[JonFromVA]

I just have to say that fans of teams who want K. Love on the minimum saying we should just wave him on the GB are making me see red. The NBA is very close to being broken, and if Love and his agent get their way on this, that seems like a crossing of the Rubicon to me. Either NBA contracts require players to actually try for the teams that are obligated to pay them, or not. If buy me out for my full $60M with two years left becomes the new normal, there's no way to have a functional league.

The bigger question is whether the Cavs have a role for Kevin. If they do then I don't have a problem with asking him to be a professional and fill it. Then if he wants out, he can give something up.

But if we don't? Or we just want to move on? Well, then he truly is a sunk cost.

Heck, we might even have health insurance on Kevin's contract such that if we play him enough and he gets hurt again, we save money right there.

[jbk1234]

I just have to say that fans of teams who want K. Love on the minimum saying we should just wave him on the GB are making me see red. The NBA is very close to being broken, and if Love and his agent get their way on this, that seems like a crossing of the Rubicon to me. Either NBA contracts require players to actually try for the teams that are obligated to pay them, or not. If buy me out for my full $60M with two years left becomes the new normal, there's no way to have a functional league.

The bigger question is whether the Cavs have a role for Kevin. If they do then I don't have a problem with asking him to be a professional and fill it. Then if he wants out, he can give something up.

But if we don't? Or we just want to move on? Well, then he truly is a sunk cost.

Heck, we might even have health insurance on Kevin's contract such that if we play him enough and he gets hurt again, we save money right there.

I mean there's a role in the sense that there will be minutes for him off the bench if he's in shape. That's the same role he'll have on any NBA team. But no team is going to rely on Kevin to give them heavy minutes either starting or coming off the bench at this point because he's been manifestly unreliable.

But the cost isn't truly sunk until he's waved. Then it's just dead cap that can't be traded or combined with other players. The entire notion of a buyout is borderline offensive to begin with when you think about it. Pay me some of salary so I can go work somewhere else is pretty risible before you get to pay me all of my $60M salary, over two years, so I can go play somewhere else.

Think of the precedent that will set. I mean yeah, go ahead and be mad at the Cavs for offering the contract, but Kevin didn't have to sign it if he didn't want to be here for 4 years. He could've asked for three years. We can't get to the point where the norm is veteran players get a huge bag, become unhappy, and think they can keep it regardless of whether they're at least showing up and putting in minimal professional effort. The only players who will sign with us will sign bloated deals for all the wrong reasons (See, e.g. The Kings). And if Schwartz does this to us twice in a row, then every agent in league will be judged against that result and be incentivized to repeat the outcome. We can't be *that* team. We're already the midmarket teams whose beat reporter writes about us having to pay a tax to sign replacement level guys. In the words of Michael Corlone, it's not personal, it's strictly business.