New direction Bulls. do you bullieve? (August thread : have you changed your mind?)

Warriorfan · Post #41 » by **Warriorfan** » Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:33 pm

Still need to develop, trade, or sign a Superstar in order to be a contender

Ballerhogger · Post #42 » by **Ballerhogger** » Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:34 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:Well I bullieve they should have made the playoffs last year and they added a lot talent imo. So playoffs yes, doing much more than the second round there? Nah.

But who wouldn't be happy with a

Lonzo
Lavine
Derozen
whomever
Vuc

Lavine is an all-star. Derozen and Vuc to varying levels are near all-stars. They're going to score a lot of points and be fun. They need like... a prime Draymond Green at PF in order to make it work for maybe a championship contender kinda stuff but hey this team is real fun and great and pretty young.

If lonzo can become decent shooter it could be good team we know DeRozan isn’t that guy.

clyde21 · Post #43 » by **clyde21** » Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:48 pm

there is probably enough talent there to make 5-8th in the EC but that's most likely the ceiling, after that i'm not sure what the plan is, they are capped out and don't have a blue chip young prospect/asset unless you're big on Williams or Coby.

Lonzo / Caruso / Ayo
Lavine / Coby
DeRozan /
Williams / Jones Jr.
Vucevic

Scalabrine · Post #44 » by **Scalabrine** » Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:53 pm

So I think they should make the playoffs and be a solid regular season team. The biggest issue to me, they have a ton of pieces all in different developmental stages. Derozan and Vuc are at the ends of their primes. Lavine is in his prime right now, but will now have fewer touches with Derozan on board. Ball is getting paid like he's a top 10 point guard when he's really probably more around 20. I'm interested to see how Patrick Williams develops with all this. He's still so young and raw. I wonder if his long term development and opportunity could fall to the wayside in order to try to win some games in the short term.

Overall, I think this team has certainly elevated their floor, but I think they have capped out their ceiling. Not terrible for a team that wasn't going anywhere prior to these moves, but I just don't see them going much further unless the young guys really take massive steps.

LBJKB24MJ23 · Post #45 » by **LBJKB24MJ23** » Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:33 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:Well I bullieve they should have made the playoffs last year and they added a lot talent imo. So playoffs yes, doing much more than the second round there? Nah.

But who wouldn't be happy with a

Lonzo
Lavine
Derozen
whomever
Vuc

Lavine is an all-star. Derozen and Vuc to varying levels are near all-stars. They're going to score a lot of points and be fun. They need like... a prime Draymond Green at PF in order to make it work for maybe a championship contender kinda stuff but hey this team is real fun and great and pretty young.

the big names will help sell and generate revenue I guess.

Ryoga Hibiki · Post #46 » by **Ryoga Hibiki** » Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:42 pm

Depends on what you define success.
Can this team contend for the 6th seed, maybe even 4th? Sure.
Can this team evolve into a serious contender? Very unlikely.

Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

Post #47 » by **Michael Jackson** » Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:46 pm

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:Depends on what you define success.
Can this team contend for the 6th seed, maybe even 4th? Sure.
Can this team evolve into a serious contender? Very unlikely.

Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

As is they are surely not a contender. AK proved he can overturn a roster and make a team look like a NBA team instead of a G league team. He seems active so maybe he can make more moves that improve this team but right now they are a second round exit team at best. To be fair though the culture of that team needed to be revamped and that is step one, so there is a direction but I don't think anyone anywhere thinks this team can contend seriously.

Dan Z · Post #48 » by **Dan Z** » Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:50 pm

ChettheJet wrote:The old management was all about drafting solid if unspectacular players who were juniors or seniors from quality winning programs. This meant they had a fundamentally sound team of solid citizens who never developed into the all star caliber players that everybody else won titles with. They ended up making the playoffs, treading water, , never good enough to get to the ECF, save for the one time the ping pong balls fell their way and they got Derrick Rose who was unlike their usual brand of player.

When Rose went down and was then traded nobody stepped up or showed up to be a star to replace him. That's when they descended into 3 straight #7 picks followed by a #4 slot and a new crop of good contributing players who due to injuries and lack of depth kept losing which resulted in John Paxson and Gar Foreman getting dumped

What about Jimmy Butler? He showed improvement and wanted to step up, but the Bulls decided to sign an almost done Dwyane Wade and Rondo (who is streaky). It was obvious, at that time, that it was never going to work and once it didn't they traded Butler.

At this point it doesn't matter because it's in the past. Fortunately the Bulls are headed in a good direction IMO.

DreamTeam09 · Post #49 » by **DreamTeam09** » Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:56 pm

If the hawks made the ECF than the bulls can,

meekrab · Post #50 » by **meekrab** » Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:59 pm

Michael Jackson wrote:
Ryoga Hibiki wrote:Depends on what you define success.
Can this team contend for the 6th seed, maybe even 4th? Sure.
Can this team evolve into a serious contender? Very unlikely.

Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

As is they are surely not a contender. AK proved he can overturn a roster and make a team look like a NBA team instead of a G league team. He seems active so maybe he can make more moves that improve this team but right now they are a second round exit team at best. To be fair though the culture of that team needed to be revamped and that is step one, so there is a direction but I don't think anyone anywhere thinks this team can contend seriously.

Only 8 teams make the 2nd round, if you go from a 31 win team that nobody took seriously to top 8 in the league in one offseason that's a pretty good offseason. :dontknow:

Post #51 » by **Michael Jackson** » Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:13 pm

meekrab wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:
Ryoga Hibiki wrote:Depends on what you define success.
Can this team contend for the 6th seed, maybe even 4th? Sure.
Can this team evolve into a serious contender? Very unlikely.

Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

As is they are surely not a contender. AK proved he can overturn a roster and make a team look like a NBA team instead of a G league team. He seems active so maybe he can make more moves that improve this team but right now they are a second round exit team at best. To be fair though the culture of that team needed to be revamped and that is step one, so there is a direction but I don't think anyone anywhere thinks this team can contend seriously.

Only 8 teams make the 2nd round, if you go from a 31 win team that nobody took seriously to top 8 in the league in one offseason that's a pretty good offseason.

It absolutely is the right direction. From what was left in the GarPax era wasn’t like you could make it an contender in a year anyway. Even look at NO, they have Zion and Ingram and they aren’t even a sure fire playoff team. The moves are a win for sure. As mentioned the floor got raised quite a bit but the ceiling isn’t super high either. I am more than happy to watch a real basketball team this year, but I also don’t think Chicago is a team that is close to being a title contender.

Post #52 » by **Michael Jackson** » Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:20 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:If the hawks made the ECF than the bulls can,

Bulls and Hawks were on pretty similar footing at the start of last season, after firing Lloyd Hawks clearly took a big jump and played well in the playoffs. The hawks are fairly well put together too and if hunter is healthy will be a better team this year. Collins is overpaid but what was their option at this point?

Bulls can make a similar jump this year, but we have to see what this whole new look team ends up looking like. Your starting lineup has not even played a full season together aside from Pat and LaVine. Vuc didn’t get to play with Zach much either because of injury and Covid so this team has a lot to iron out yet but they have enough tools to be improved and potentially as good as the Hawks, but the Hawks have proven it already.

Ballerhogger · Post #53 » by **Ballerhogger** » Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:44 pm

Michael Jackson wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:If the hawks made the ECF than the bulls can,

Bulls and Hawks were on pretty similar footing at the start of last season, after firing Lloyd Hawks clearly took a big jump and played well in the playoffs. The hawks are fairly well put together too and if hunter is healthy will be a better team this year. Collins is overpaid but what was their option at this point?

Bulls can make a similar jump this year, but we have to see what this whole new look team ends up looking like. Your starting lineup has not even played a full season together aside from Pat and LaVine. Vuc didn’t get to play with Zach much either because of injury and Covid so this team has a lot to iron out yet but they have enough tools to be improved and potentially as good as the Hawks, but the Hawks have proven it already.

Bulls lack rebounding and defense at C/F position . The hawks have capela. Their bench is ok. Mediocre . I like Alex but he’s limited. Not enough shooting . Really have hope Lonzo takes a next step.

TwitterFingers · Post #54 » by **TwitterFingers** » Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:02 pm

Hot take, but I think the bulls are the second best team in the East. The fit nazis keep sleeping on them, but they have legitimately talented offensive players that are capable of making the right reads on a consistent basis. The key will obviously be there defense, but I think they can be better in that area than people think. If they play defense with effort, and somehow manage to be a top 12 defense, then I think Chicago is a very good team.

BYG-Jacob · Post #55 » by **BYG-Jacob** » Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:16 pm

Their ceiling is a first or second-round exit.

Post #56 » by **Michael Jackson** » Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:16 pm

TwitterFingers wrote:Hot take, but I think the bulls are the second best team in the East. The fit nazis keep sleeping on them, but they have legitimately talented offensive players that are capable of making the right reads on a consistent basis. The key will obviously be there defense, but I think they can be better in that area than people think. If they play defense with effort, and somehow manage to be a top 12 defense, then I think Chicago is a very good team.

Depends what Donovan can scheme. He did have a top 10 fens in OKC... but and the big but, is Steven Adams was his anchor. They have obviously tried to upgrade their perimeter defense in the offseason, but the interior D of this team is very lacking. They do have more athletes to throw at the problem this year but Billy really has to come up with a workable scheme. I think in the regular season they will be fine but they will get picked apart in a series. All that being said, I expect 3 hard lineups a lot like OKC ran, and assume that part of the philosophy is to work a team on offense so they tire and are easier to defend. Has that ever worked to any major success? Can't think of it but who knows. Situationally the Bulls can also put out some a decent lineup defensively but that lineup isn't really viable for too much burn.

Pointgod · Post #57 » by **Pointgod** » Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:57 am

Yes the Bulls are legit. They’ve done the hardest part of putting together a successful team, getting an allstar player. Let’s be honest the vast majority of realgm posters don’t know what they’re talking about. I could pull up the threads that claimed Chris Paul wouldn’t make a difference on the Suns, or the Bucks overpaid for Jrue and they’ll never win a championship or the big 3 Nets would never work because there’s one ball… I could go on and on but the Bulls have 2 legit all stars, 1 former allstar who’s one of the most efficient players at his position and a lot of good young players. Too many posters just repeat narratives like Derozan doesn’t make his teammates better (last years Spurs team shot better from 3 point % with him on the floor) or Vucevic is horrible defensively (last years Bulls were 12th in defensive rating with Vucevic and the Orlando Magic teams were top 10 in defensive rating with him on it). This team will be good, a lot of posters will eat crow and let’s just say I have more faith in the future of the Bulls then a team like OKC.

Post #58 » by **GeorgeMarcus** » Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:04 am

Lonzo was a great move, and then they spoiled it by trading for DeRozan. Why would they do that on a team with 2 high usage scorers (LaVine/Vuc) and a clear primary initiator in Lonzo? No matter what DeRozan does, he'll be encroaching on someone else's territory, and he's not particularly impactful even when that isn't the case. Then there are the defensive concerns of starting both DD and LaVine on the wing... It just doesn't make sense. Trading Thad also didn't make sense for a team apparently trying to win now.

SHO'NUFF · Post #59 » by **SHO'NUFF** » Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:08 am

Ballerhogger wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:Well I bullieve they should have made the playoffs last year and they added a lot talent imo. So playoffs yes, doing much more than the second round there? Nah.

But who wouldn't be happy with a

Lonzo
Lavine
Derozen
whomever
Vuc

Lavine is an all-star. Derozen and Vuc to varying levels are near all-stars. They're going to score a lot of points and be fun. They need like... a prime Draymond Green at PF in order to make it work for maybe a championship contender kinda stuff but hey this team is real fun and great and pretty young.

If lonzo can become decent shooter it could be good team we know DeRozan isn’t that guy.

Wait….are you saying DeRozan isn’t a good shooter? His midrange game is pretty damn good.

SHO'NUFF · Post #60 » by **SHO'NUFF** » Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:12 am

GeorgeMarcus wrote:Lonzo was a great move, and then they spoiled it by trading for DeRozan. Why would they do that on a team with 2 high usage scorers (LaVine/Vuc) and a clear primary initiator in Lonzo? No matter what DeRozan does, he'll be encroaching on someone else's territory, and he's not particularly impactful even when that isn't the case. Then there are the defensive concerns of starting both DD and LaVine on the wing... It just doesn't make sense. Trading Thad also didn't make sense for a team apparently trying to win now.

DeRozan averaged 7 apg last season. More than anyone on the Bulls. He got to the line at 7.2 attempts per game. More than anyone on the Bulls. Scored very efficiently in the paint / midrange. These are all things bulls needed and were lacking.

Do you believe Bulls are on the right track?