Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[Dr Positivity]

Portland since they're under pressure to make a move and Simmons defense has been what they're missing.

[zimpy27]

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Feels like this will get ugly

Feels like Paul is in some real danger of overplaying his hand. Lebron's time is coming to an end and if he's ticked off the entire league and jacked around a number of players, Klutch could burn out really quickly.

I wouldn't count on it. Star players look at this and think "this guy will really fight for me".

They just signed LaVine a few days ago

[Texas Chuck]

What kind of offer is either going to make for someone who makes it clear they don’t want to be there. Pop unlikely to want to deal with that in his prime, much less now.

Minnesota no more likely to make a top offer under those circumstances unless Rosas and Morey got a plan

Man if I'm those franchises I would definitely make a good offer regardless. He's not going to refuse to report/play and I'm not good anyway nor with a clear path to being good without adding a player like this.

And certainly if Dallas had any assets to speak of I'd want to be in on this even if he didn't want to be in Dallas and wasn't a fan of having to play an off-ball PF role with Luka in house. Get the talent.

He literally is refusing to report/play for his current team. You don’t think he and Paul won’t do that to avoid Minnesota or San Antonio?

I don't. Because then its clear the issue isn't all Philly, but also or even primarily him. Plus who wants to sit out potentially 3 years of their prime if the team calls your bluff? His contract status reduces his leverage here.

[zimpy27]

Sacramento

[E S V L]

Does this "California teams only" thing mean that Simmons is headed to GSW as the only team that has decent assets?

Sac has assets.

Yes, it does.

Clippers, Lakers, GSW, SAC - why then only three California teams have been mentioned?

[NW]

Man if I'm those franchises I would definitely make a good offer regardless. He's not going to refuse to report/play and I'm not good anyway nor with a clear path to being good without adding a player like this.

And certainly if Dallas had any assets to speak of I'd want to be in on this even if he didn't want to be in Dallas and wasn't a fan of having to play an off-ball PF role with Luka in house. Get the talent.

He literally is refusing to report/play for his current team. You don’t think he and Paul won’t do that to avoid Minnesota or San Antonio?

I don't. Because then its clear the issue isn't all Philly, but also or even primarily him. Plus who wants to sit out potentially 3 years of their prime if the team calls your bluff? His contract status reduces his leverage here.

What team has ever called that bluff for that period of time. No organization or GM has the luxury to put things on hold that long-as Philly about to learn

[E S V L]

Sacramento with Fox is a clear favorite

[bondom34]

He literally is refusing to report/play for his current team. You don’t think he and Paul won’t do that to avoid Minnesota or San Antonio?

I don't. Because then its clear the issue isn't all Philly, but also or even primarily him. Plus who wants to sit out potentially 3 years of their prime if the team calls your bluff? His contract status reduces his leverage here.

What team has ever called that bluff for that period of time. No organization or GM has the luxury to put things on hold that long-as Philly about to learn

On the other hand what player has ever done this.

[drosestruts]

3-team trade between Philly - Indiana - Toronto


Philly in: Pascal Siakam, Fred VanFleet, TJ Warren and Jeremy Lamb
Philly out: Ben Simmons, Tobias Harris, Seth Curry, Tyrese Maxey

Indiana in: Ben Simmons, Tobias Harris, Seth Curry, and Tyrese Maxey
Indiana out: Domantas Sabonis, Caris LeVert, Malcolm Brogdon, TJ Warren, and Jeremy Lamb

Toronto in: Domantas Sabonis, Caris Levert and Malcom Brogdon
Toronto out: Pascal Siakam and Fred VanFleet


Philly:

VanFleet/Milton/Springer
Green/Korkmaz/Thybulle
Warren/Lamb
Siakam/Niang/Reed
Embiid/Drummond

Siakam-VanFleet-Warren is quite the haul for Simmons and all players fit well alongside Embiid. I don't think Philly will make a move for prospects and picks. Tomorrow isn't guaranteed and Embiid's health is always a concern so you need the trade to give you a roster that can compete right away and I think this trade accomplishes that.


Indiana:

Curry/McConnell
Maxey/Holiday/Duarte
Simmons/Brissett/Craig
Harris/Jackson
Turner/Goga

The starting lineup is a bit of Philly with a diet, sugar-free, caffeine-free version of Embid in Turner (in that he blocks shots and spaces the court). It's big overall for Indiana, but they move some sometime all-stars for a bonafide star in Simmons.


Toronto:

Brogdon/Dragic/Flynn
Barnes/LeVert
Anunoby/Bonga
Boucher/Achiuwa
Sabonis/Birch

Toronto was really missing a big man, some roster reshuffling gets their big man in Sabonis while swapping Brogdon and FVV. Open up clear roles for guys like Boucher and Barnes.

[mademan]

Simmons isnt gonna sit out, but if he follows the Harden route and just dogs it, Philly is gonna be forced to move him. Thats the real threat; "trade me now and have a normal training camp, or have this hang over your head, make a circus and be forced to trade me anyways."

[Helsbyte]

I believe Simmons would flourish in a small market environment. Less pressure.

[cl2117]

Think he starts the year in Philly but doesn't finish it there.

[Texas Chuck]

He literally is refusing to report/play for his current team. You don’t think he and Paul won’t do that to avoid Minnesota or San Antonio?

I don't. Because then its clear the issue isn't all Philly, but also or even primarily him. Plus who wants to sit out potentially 3 years of their prime if the team calls your bluff? His contract status reduces his leverage here.

What team has ever called that bluff for that period of time. No organization or GM has the luxury to put things on hold that long-as Philly about to learn

No but no player is going to sit out 3 max years either in their prime. I'm not naive--he'll probably get to a team he's content with, but I'd not allow myself to be scared off as another team.

[NW]

I don't. Because then its clear the issue isn't all Philly, but also or even primarily him. Plus who wants to sit out potentially 3 years of their prime if the team calls your bluff? His contract status reduces his leverage here.

What team has ever called that bluff for that period of time. No organization or GM has the luxury to put things on hold that long-as Philly about to learn

On the other hand what player has ever done this.

They never have to. They get traded to a preferred destination before it gets to that point

[zimpy27]

So, now that Klutch want their guys out of Philly, does that mean that Klutch guys can't be included in a trade for Simmons?

[bondom34]

What team has ever called that bluff for that period of time. No organization or GM has the luxury to put things on hold that long-as Philly about to learn

On the other hand what player has ever done this.

They never have to. They get traded to a preferred destination before it gets to that point

Players have requested trades before, but I've never seen a player sit out.

Simmons isnt gonna sit out, but if he follows the Harden route and just dogs it, Philly is gonna be forced to move him. Thats the real threat; "trade me now and have a normal training camp, or have this hang over your head, make a circus and be forced to trade me anyways."

This is plausible. I don't know I buy a player forfeiting their salary for this though, think that's a bit unprecedented.

[DWhiteMamba]

Are the posters who kept saying that Ben never said anything himself and expected him to be on the team next season changing their tunes now?

I've been a skeptic. I haven't said Ben never said anything himself just that I wasn't ready to let the narrative run wild and that I thought Philly should keep him if like CJ and a first was the best offer.

And yes, I'm taking this latest report more seriously. And freely admit that it's quite likely I was too resistant to how bad the situation was.

Having seen the Kawhi situation unfold, I figured there was fire to the smoke. When you have all these rumors surrounding your star player wanting out and he does literally nothing to dispel them, that is not a good sign at all

Feel bad for Sixers fans sort of, but this is a different situation than the Kawhi fiasco, and they kinda did it to themselves by throwing him under the bus to the media, along with the fans openly booing him.

That's what made the Kawhi situation so disgraceful. Kawhi was on a team he'd won a title with, that had just had back to back 60 win seasons, in a city he was beloved. If he wanted out, he could have just been up-front with the Spurs front office privately and told them he wanted a trade to LA for family reasons, and it was better they trade him 2 years out because he's not staying. Instead he milks an injury to sit out, ghosts the team, creates a media circus with his leaks and attitude, and throws the team under the bus with false accusations they somehow misdiagnosed his injury. If he'd asked out the right way, we'd have agreed to trade him eventually, and his image in the community would still be fine for the most part. He'd have his jersey retired one day, and it would be like a more professional version of the Kareem Bucks situation.

Simmons behavior is disgraceful, but he at least has a few things to be unhappy with. He's not a good fit next to Embiid, and the fans and city have to some degree turned on him already after the playoffs. Morey was also already trying to trade him last offseason. So while Simmons is in the wrong, I can at least see him having good reasons for wanting out. Kawhi didn't even have that.

[Bornstellar]

I've been a skeptic. I haven't said Ben never said anything himself just that I wasn't ready to let the narrative run wild and that I thought Philly should keep him if like CJ and a first was the best offer.

And yes, I'm taking this latest report more seriously. And freely admit that it's quite likely I was too resistant to how bad the situation was.

Having seen the Kawhi situation unfold, I figured there was fire to the smoke. When you have all these rumors surrounding your star player wanting out and he does literally nothing to dispel them, that is not a good sign at all

Feel bad for Sixers fans sort of, but this is a different situation than the Kawhi fiasco, and they kinda did it to themselves by throwing him under the bus to the media, along with the fans openly booing him.

I'm not going to blame the fans for booing him. Players get booed all the time and as long as it's only booing, I think most of the players can handle it. But Rivers and Embiid throwing him under the bus in the postgame interview, I don't think anyone was ever going to come back from that one.

I dunno man, to get booed by your own fans and regularly sh** on by them, I can see why he doesn't like Philly as a city or a team. I have watched the Spurs for a very long time and I have never, ever seen the fans boo the team, despite them probably deserving in numerous times the last two seasons with some ridiculously embarrassing home losses. Maybe it's just a small market team thing, but I don't think there's really any good reasons to boo your own team

[DWhiteMamba]

On the other hand what player has ever done this.

They never have to. They get traded to a preferred destination before it gets to that point

Players have requested trades before, but I've never seen a player sit out.

Simmons isnt gonna sit out, but if he follows the Harden route and just dogs it, Philly is gonna be forced to move him. Thats the real threat; "trade me now and have a normal training camp, or have this hang over your head, make a circus and be forced to trade me anyways."

This is plausible. I don't know I buy a player forfeiting their salary for this though, think that's a bit unprecedented.

Kawhi sat out. He was no more injured in 2018 than 2019 or 2020. He has a chronic injury that the Spurs correctly diagnosed, despite his insistence it would get better with rest, and he has been load managed for it since. Butler didn't exactly sit out. He just turned the team into a circus. Harden accepted he'd have to play or get fined, so he just dogged it. All 3 behaved in disgraceful ways, as Simmons i now, but unfortunately it's become a norm in today's league where contracts are apparently only one way agreements that players get to dishonour by teams do not.

[Commodor]

So, now that Klutch want their guys out of Philly, does that mean that Klutch guys can't be included in a trade for Simmons?

Interesting. This would imply Draymond probably not going to be a part of any GSW move.