OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins

[CjayC]

Your 2021-2022 Chicago Bears. Tentative list, we can probably expect a bit of shuffling at the bottom of the depth charts depending on how the waiver wire looks like.

Spoiler:

QB (3): Andy Dalton, Justin Fields, Nick Foles

FB (1): JP Holtz

HB (3): David Montgomery, Damien Williams, Khalil Herbert

TE (4): Cole Kmet, Jimmy Graham, Jesse James, Jesper Horsted

WR (5): Allen Robinson II, Darnell Mooney, Marquise Goodwin, Damiere Byrd, Rodney Adams

OT (5): Jason Peters, Germain Ifedi, Teven Jenkins, Larry Borom, Elijah Wilkinson

OG (4): Cody Whitehair, James Daniels, Alex Bars, Pig Simmons

C (1): Sam Mustipher

DE (1): Bilal Nichols

DT (2): Akiem Hicks, Angelo Blackson

NT (2): Eddie Goldman, Khyiris Tonga

EDGE (4): Khalil Mack, Robert Quinn, Trevis Gipson, Jeremiah Attaochu

LB (7): Roquan Smith, Danny Trevathan, Alec Ogletree, Christian Jones, Joel Iyiegbuniwe, Josh Woods, Caleb Johnson

CB (4): Jaylon Johnson, Kindle Vildor, Duke Shelley, Xavier Crawford

S (4): Eddie Jackson, Tashaun Gipson Sr., Deon Bush, DeAndre Houston-Carson

ST (3): Cairo Santos, Pat O'Donnell, Patrick Scales

PUP List (1): Tarik Cohen

IR (2): Jordan Lucas, Mike Pennel Jr.

Suspended (1): Mario Edwards Jr.

[nomorezorro]

Read on Twitter

This is going to be the talk around the team until JF gets on the field.

maybe i'm being naive, but i really don't think nagy's going to stubbornly stick with dalton.

based on training camp reports, sticking with dalton over fields isn't a crazy choice — dalton has reportedly been fine, and while fields came on strong, i haven't read anything that suggests he was a no-doubt better performer than andy. more talented, sure, but i don't think it's a black-and-white situation where nagy is just blindly defaulting to seniority.

at the same time, nagy has been positive enough about fields that i don't think he'll hesitate to pull the trigger if dalton clearly isn't working. he's an offensive guy who wants a talented QB to run his system that's gotten maligned for the past four years. if dalton can't make it work — either because he sucks, or he's just not good enough to overcome the **** line or whatever — i think nagy's going to make the switch instead of going "andy is our quarterback."

the only scenario where i think you see it drag out is if the offense is eh-but-not-awful and the team strings together some early wins. if the offense looks awful, the switch happens very quickly. if the offense looks eh and the team struggles as a whole, fields gets a shot around week four. if the offense is good, andy stays in and everyone settles down for a bit.

[Dresden]

no

And this moment, no. Jones has his limitations. The Patriots are great at getting the most out of players, and they're system has always relied more on short, precise passing than deep passing. But really, it's anyone's guess how any rookie QB is going to pan out. Jones could be a HOF'er, and then everyone will be saying again how Beliceck outsmarted the league yet again. His decision to go with Cam last year didn't work out so well though. But people will forget all about that if Mac Jones is the real deal. Just like how they'll forget about him using a first round pick on Sony Michel, who only lasted 2-3 years for them.

They have a direction and they aren’t afraid to take it. And they will be decisive in following through. That’s a winners mentality.

Let's see how much they win without Brady....

[fleet]

And this moment, no. Jones has his limitations. The Patriots are great at getting the most out of players, and they're system has always relied more on short, precise passing than deep passing. But really, it's anyone's guess how any rookie QB is going to pan out. Jones could be a HOF'er, and then everyone will be saying again how Beliceck outsmarted the league yet again. His decision to go with Cam last year didn't work out so well though. But people will forget all about that if Mac Jones is the real deal. Just like how they'll forget about him using a first round pick on Sony Michel, who only lasted 2-3 years for them.

They have a direction and they aren’t afraid to take it. And they will be decisive in following through. That’s a winners mentality.

They've been absolutely terrible at drafting offensive talent since Gronk.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm

James White, Shane Vareen, Stevan Ridley are the only somewhat relevant WR/TE/RBs in ten years.

Meanwhile the Bears offensive juggernaut. We have 4 corners and an O line that resembles a California wildfire.

Read on Twitter

Sure the Patriots had Brady, which makes it 10 times easier, but they sure know how to be decisive and to face the future with Jones. And were smart enough to draft Jimmy G and churn him into another 2nd rounder instead of constantly wasting picks trading up for JAGS like the Bears. The cap mismanaged Bears have decided to line up behind Andy Dalton, but maybe we also have a rookie that is the future franchise QB threatening his job running the scout team. That isn’t taking bold action. Maybe that’s good, but most would take bold, sure, and decisive. Which doesn’t always win, but does give you a chance if you are a generally smart organization; which the Patriots definitely are.

[Dresden]

They have a direction and they aren’t afraid to take it. And they will be decisive in following through. That’s a winners mentality.

They've been absolutely terrible at drafting offensive talent since Gronk.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm

James White, Shane Vareen, Stevan Ridley are the only somewhat relevant WR/TE/RBs in ten years.

Meanwhile the Bears offensive juggernaut. We have 4 corners and an O line that resembles a California wildfire.

Read on Twitter

Sure the Patriots had Brady, which makes it 10 times easier, but they sure know how to be decisive and to face the future. And were smart enough to draft Jimmy G and churn him into another 2nd rounder instead of constantly wasting picks trading up for JAGS like the Bears. The cap mismanaged Bears have decided to line up behind Andy Dalton, but maybe we also have a rookie that is the future franchise QB threatening his job running the scout team. That isn’t taking bold action. Maybe that’s good, but most would take bold, sure, and decisive. Which doesn’t always win, but does give you a chance if you are a generally smart organization; which the Patriots definitely are.

Bold, decisive action- like giving up a ton of assets because you were sure that a certain unproven QB from NC State was going to be your saviour, so damn the torpedoes and let's just make sure we get him? Like that kind of bold, decisive action?

Or giving up a ton of assets to go out and get what, at the time, was the best defensive player in football?

Or going out and hiring the offensive coordinator of the best offense in football? Who oversaw the development of the best QB in the game?

It's funny how when moves work out in your favor, they make you look like a genius. And Beliceck for years has had a certain #12 bail him out and make him look just look like one.

[fleet]

They've been absolutely terrible at drafting offensive talent since Gronk.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm

James White, Shane Vareen, Stevan Ridley are the only somewhat relevant WR/TE/RBs in ten years.

Meanwhile the Bears offensive juggernaut. We have 4 corners and an O line that resembles a California wildfire.

Read on Twitter

Sure the Patriots had Brady, which makes it 10 times easier, but they sure know how to be decisive and to face the future. And were smart enough to draft Jimmy G and churn him into another 2nd rounder instead of constantly wasting picks trading up for JAGS like the Bears. The cap mismanaged Bears have decided to line up behind Andy Dalton, but maybe we also have a rookie that is the future franchise QB threatening his job running the scout team. That isn’t taking bold action. Maybe that’s good, but most would take bold, sure, and decisive. Which doesn’t always win, but does give you a chance if you are a generally smart organization; which the Patriots definitely are.

Bold, decisive action- like giving up a ton of assets because you were sure that a certain unproven QB from NC State was going to be your saviour, so damn the torpedoes and let's just make sure we get him? Like that kind of bold, decisive action?

Or giving up a ton of assets to go out and get what, at the time, was the best defensive player in football?

Or going out and hiring the offensive coordinator of the best offense in football? Who oversaw the development of the best QB in the game?

It's funny how when moves work out in your favor, they make you look like a genius. And Beliceck for years has had a certain #12 bail him out and make him look just look like one.

Right now, the bold and sure Bears are most sure of Andy Dalton. Hey maybe they know what they are doing, IDK. I guess the caveat is the generally “smart organization“ requirement. And I would be careful crediting Patrick Mahomes’ career greatness to Matt freaking Nagy. And Nagy being a guy that thinks his system is more important than any sort of talent optimization.

Hey all moves aren’t winners. The Bears have been bold and decisive in the past, but their wisdom while doing so is questionable often, and they are wetting the bed at this particular moment. Comparing them to the Patriots in a positive way is stretching things guys.

[fleet]

Roster is completed. Bears are carrying 5 TE's. Graham, Kmet, James, Horsted, and Holtz. Holtz is more of TE only in name I guess, functionally he's probably more like a Fullback.

5 TEs, 4 corners, 10 (iffy) OL. The formula rarely used. Horsted and Holtz are specialist add-ons (on top of specialist Graham), consider them luxurious whatevers. The roster appears out of balance in so many ways.

[fleet]

And this moment, no. Jones has his limitations. The Patriots are great at getting the most out of players, and they're system has always relied more on short, precise passing than deep passing. But really, it's anyone's guess how any rookie QB is going to pan out. Jones could be a HOF'er, and then everyone will be saying again how Beliceck outsmarted the league yet again. His decision to go with Cam last year didn't work out so well though. But people will forget all about that if Mac Jones is the real deal. Just like how they'll forget about him using a first round pick on Sony Michel, who only lasted 2-3 years for them.

They have a direction and they aren’t afraid to take it. And they will be decisive in following through. That’s a winners mentality.

Let's see how much they win without Brady....

I would bet over time, more than the average organization assuming current leadership. I may be in the minority, but I believe Brady wouldn’t have been as good in other places, and what he is today may not have occurred and developed to the same degree had he begun his career in say, Tampa Bay. It was more symbiotic than all one way or another.

[Susan]

They have a direction and they aren’t afraid to take it. And they will be decisive in following through. That’s a winners mentality.

They've been absolutely terrible at drafting offensive talent since Gronk.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm

James White, Shane Vareen, Stevan Ridley are the only somewhat relevant WR/TE/RBs in ten years.

Meanwhile the Bears offensive juggernaut. We have 4 corners and an O line that resembles a California wildfire.

Read on Twitter

Sure the Patriots had Brady, which makes it 10 times easier, but they sure know how to be decisive and to face the future with Jones. And were smart enough to draft Jimmy G and churn him into another 2nd rounder instead of constantly wasting picks trading up for JAGS like the Bears. The cap mismanaged Bears have decided to line up behind Andy Dalton, but maybe we also have a rookie that is the future franchise QB threatening his job running the scout team. That isn’t taking bold action. Maybe that’s good, but most would take bold, sure, and decisive. Which doesn’t always win, but does give you a chance if you are a generally smart organization; which the Patriots definitely are.

The Bears had a window that opened up in 2018 and closed violently last year (or really in 2019) when Mitch didn't take a step forward. Once it became clear that Mitch wasn't the guy, they moved on about as quickly as you can for a 2nd overall pick.

They have another window now, and once again it's going to be dependent on Justin Fields. We all feel a whole lot better about the future now because we believe in Justin as a prospect. Next off season Robert Quinn's contract has an out in it, they're going to have cap space, a franchise QB on a rookie deal along with Montgomery, Kmet, Johnson, Mooney and whoever else emerges on rookie deals along with Khalil Mack and Roquan Smith still on the roster. There's another chance for a window to open once again.

The QB is 100% a QB driven league. The Pats are a genius team because they had the GOAT for nearly 20 years under center for them, everything else becomes easier with that type of dude. Just because they're doing something now doesn't guarantee anything. The only team that's ever had franchise QBs back to back was GB - Favre didn't play in year 1 and Rodgers had multiple redshirt years. Before that it was SF with Steve Young/Montana. Indy got lucky as hell with Manning/Luck and they broke Luck, now they've got themselves a broken Wentz.

[Susan]

Meanwhile the Bears offensive juggernaut. We have 4 corners and an O line that resembles a California wildfire.

Read on Twitter

Sure the Patriots had Brady, which makes it 10 times easier, but they sure know how to be decisive and to face the future. And were smart enough to draft Jimmy G and churn him into another 2nd rounder instead of constantly wasting picks trading up for JAGS like the Bears. The cap mismanaged Bears have decided to line up behind Andy Dalton, but maybe we also have a rookie that is the future franchise QB threatening his job running the scout team. That isn’t taking bold action. Maybe that’s good, but most would take bold, sure, and decisive. Which doesn’t always win, but does give you a chance if you are a generally smart organization; which the Patriots definitely are.

Bold, decisive action- like giving up a ton of assets because you were sure that a certain unproven QB from NC State was going to be your saviour, so damn the torpedoes and let's just make sure we get him? Like that kind of bold, decisive action?

Or giving up a ton of assets to go out and get what, at the time, was the best defensive player in football?

Or going out and hiring the offensive coordinator of the best offense in football? Who oversaw the development of the best QB in the game?

It's funny how when moves work out in your favor, they make you look like a genius. And Beliceck for years has had a certain #12 bail him out and make him look just look like one.

Right now, the bold and sure Bears are most sure of Andy Dalton. Hey maybe they know what they are doing, IDK. I guess the caveat is the generally “smart organization“ requirement. And I would be careful crediting Patrick Mahomes’ career greatness to Matt freaking Nagy. And Nagy being a guy that thinks his system is more important than any sort of talent optimization.

Hey all moves aren’t winners. The Bears have been bold and decisive in the past, but their wisdom while doing so is questionable often, and they are wetting the bed at this particular moment. Comparing them to the Patriots in a positive way is stretching things guys.

To me, Dalton is going in to take the edge off from the season. As a fanbase, we don't have major expectations for the year but having Dalton come in, suck and put us back behind the Packers a few games in the standings and then bring in Fields truly relieves all of the pressure to win and he'll look that much greater considering how great he's going to look compared to who he's replacing.

Look at the line, look at the CB room, this roster isn't ready to win big right now so putting Fields out there so soon would be putting too much pressure on him too early. Take the air out of the season and just let him play.

[Dresden]

Roster is completed. Bears are carrying 5 TE's. Graham, Kmet, James, Horsted, and Holtz. Holtz is more of TE only in name I guess, functionally he's probably more like a Fullback.

5 TEs, 4 corners, 10 (iffy) OL. The formula rarely used. Horsted and Holtz are specialist add-ons (on top of specialist Graham), consider them luxurious whatevers. The roster appears out of balance in so many ways.

It is likely to be reshuffled once players clear waivers and are put on various lists. We are not seeing the final roster yet.

[Dresden]

They have a direction and they aren’t afraid to take it. And they will be decisive in following through. That’s a winners mentality.

Let's see how much they win without Brady....

I would bet over time, more than the average organization assuming current leadership. I may be in the minority, but I believe Brady wouldn’t have been as good in other places, and what he is today may not have occurred and developed to the same degree had he begun his career in say, Tampa Bay. It was more symbiotic than all one way or another.

I think the Pats were smart enough as an org. to know what they had in Brady pretty quickly, and did a fantastic job of putting the right pieces around him, and using a system that played to his strengths. Just as the Bulls figured out what MJ needed around him to win, and then were able to keep plugging in the pieces to keep that dynasty going. The same as the Pats did with Brady.

But I don't buy into the whole "Patriots Way" stuff, nor do I think Belichek is the greatest football mastermind of all time the way he's often portrayed. Like I said, if he's really that brilliant, let's see what he does now without Brady. My guess is they won't be to another Super Bowl under Belicheck.

[fleet]

^^^aforementioned theory that Nagy gets the credit for Mahomes does not square since Belichick for Brady, supposedly not. What is good for the goose has got to be good for the gander. For the most part QB are what they are imo, however an organization can optimize them or diminish them. For example The Bears, who took a 2018 serviceable Trubisky, and made a shambles out of.

[fleet]

The Bears currently oldest team in league.

[CjayC]

The Bears currently oldest team in league.

It's a few old guys pushing that number up several points that probably won't be here past this year. May not even contribute much this year depending on how things shake out.

Dalton, Foles, Jimmy Graham, Peters, Quinn, Trevathan. Most of them have their replacement in the wings. Trevathan is probably the biggest one that'll need replacing. The core of the team is pretty young.

[Tetlak]

I really have no idea what we're going to do at CB. I know Moreland is available, who is a decent slot guy, but aside from him, there isn't much out there. I've heard Fuller and Callahan are on the block, but not sure that we'd trade for either of them.

We have literally the worst group of CB's in the league. Our only reputable guy is a 2nd year player.

Also, we have 7 inside linebackers - why? The 7th is even an undrafted rookie. If one of them doesn't get cut when we make our first move, I'd be shocked. JP Holtz can go too.

[Dresden]

^^^aforementioned theory that Nagy gets the credit for Mahomes does not square since Belichick for Brady, supposedly not. What is good for the goose has got to be good for the gander. For the most part QB are what they are imo, however an organization can optimize them or diminish them. For example The Bears, who took a 2018 serviceable Trubisky, and made a shambles out of.

I never meant to suggest Nagy should get credit for Mahomes. I was just pointing out the Bears hired Nagy in part because he was the OC that worked in developing the game's top QB.

[ATRAIN53]

were gonna miss Anthony Miller....

that kid was dog who was not afraid to go over the middle and catch a ball
showed me some toughness, I liked him.

my whole theroy on WR is that these guys have to expose themselves to big hits. they know they are vulnerable when they stretch out to grab a ball and know any play could be their last. yes every NFL play is like this but I think WR is especially vulnerable. they need to make the catch AND look forward for more yardage - and avoid getting crushed.

Miller was a 2nd rounder making a mill per year and trying to get paid.
This should have been a big season for him here taking big hits looking for a huge contract.

Once these guys do get paid - they don't go over the middle like they used to.

We should see a big season from Cole Kmet this year if he wants to get paid.....

[Susan]

The Bears currently oldest team in league.

It's a few old guys pushing that number up several points that probably won't be here past this year. May not even contribute much this year depending on how things shake out.

Dalton, Foles, Jimmy Graham, Peters, Quinn, Trevathan. Most of them have their replacement in the wings. Trevathan is probably the biggest one that'll need replacing. The core of the team is pretty young.

Ogletree is threatening for Danny's job.

Ideal world:
Borom takes over at LT and looks good in the second half of the season
Jenkins gets healthy and plays
Gipson comes on and takes Quinn's job
Foles gets traded to a QB needy team mid season
Fields comes on and has a Herbert like impact
Kmet establishes himself as a starter
Desai is a legit DC

That would establish a good young core with $50m in cap space next off-season.

[Susan]

Read on Twitter