Ben Simmons Thread (READ FIRST POST)

[Baseline81]

Beasley, Naz and a 1st is right in that range.

Gordon was traded for even less, not 30.

Simmons is worth roughly what Vucivic brought back.

Rosas would likely include another player or pick(s) in order to ensure his bid wins. He's seemingly put all his eggs into that basket.

[SO_MONEY]

Beasley, Naz and a 1st is right in that range.

Gordon was traded for even less, not 30.

Simmons is worth roughly what Vucivic brought back.

Rosas would likely include another player or pick in order to ensure his bid wins. He's seemingly put all his eggs into that basket.

Probably the most likely outcome, perhaps both even. I could see Bol, Vandy an additional 1st all potential used in some capacity...maybe a swap even, but I think MN might seek some balance...the Maxey rumors are interesting because if included I think MN opens up discussions a bit more.

[SO_MONEY]

Vucevic was traded at age 30. He still returned two unprotected 1sts and a recent top 7 pick.

Beasley, Naz and a 1st is right in that range.

Gordon was traded for even less, not 30.

Simmons is worth roughly what Vucivic brought back.

C'mon man! You are not even in the same area code! You're going to be downright shocked when you see the final haul that Simmons gets back.

Gordon was at the end of his contract.

The length of Simmons contract is a negative.

And Beasley, Naz, Prince and a 1st is in the ballpark of two 1sts and WCJ (junk I forget).

[IceManBK1]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Prince+Beasley+Maxey to Sac
Buddy Hield and Jaden Mcdaniels plus 2 first and 1 2nd to Philly
Ben Simmons to Min.

[SO_MONEY]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Prince+Beasley+Maxey to Sac
Buddy Hield and Jaden Mcdaniels plus 2 first and 1 2nd to Philly
Ben Simmons to Min.

Lol. Hield

I don't see MN doing that and I have no idea how Hield is bringing back all that. I wouldn't trade Beasley for Hield even up.

[shrink]

As far as Simmons to the Kings, they leaked that Fox is off the table. I would expect Halliburton might be as well. Simmons people said today he wants

https://www.knbr.com/2021/08/31/ben-simmons-refuses-to-play-for-sixers-wants-to-go-to-three-california-teams-report/

Poor SAC is Team 4. Also, MIN fans may gasp at this line, from the SF based radio station:

Also is Simmons that much better than Wiggins? They are pretty close from a defensive standpoint, which is Simmons’ most valuable skill, and Wiggins was highly efficient as a scorer and shooter for the Warriors last season, something Simmons is certainly not.

[KGdaBom]

If you keep Ant-DLo and KAT + Beverly…then I’m open.

Other then that..$40M for a guy who’s a liability in the 4th? Uhhhh

Philly laughs at the scraps we offer. But then again… we traded them butler for a couple of scraps ourselves.

I sure didn't consider Covington and Saric to be scraps. Covington was ALL NBA Defense first team and Saric looked very promising. I thought is was good compensation. Of course Saric goes downhill after we get him. RoCo was traded for multiple FRPs.

[KGdaBom]

Basically either we are a team that wins a ring/can or not.

This is literally the mindset of the process which led to tanking and drafting Simmons in the first place. With this logic we can tank, hope to find the next Lebron or Giannis in the draft, hope they develop into a top 3 NBA player, and then hope they elect to resign with MN for the long haul. Good luck with all that. That requires so much good fortune and luck and the process is much much harder now because of the lottery odds.

The Spurs lucked into Duncan, which led to a 20-year dynasty. Giannis was a mid first round pick. That's how all teams work. Playing field is equal on that front. Instead of drafting Shabazz and Gorgui, we could have drafted Giannis and Gobert, yeah it's a little luck but its also skill at identifying talent.

It's a pretty decent mentality. If Simmons was highly tradeable asset, then every team who is in that position would be vying to get him.

This is not a logical statement. Every team would be trying to get him if the asking price was right. It takes two teams to make a trade and all reports are that Morey is asking for the moon for Simmons. Just because there aren’t teams out there willing to trade a young star and 4 first rounders sandwiched between pick swaps doesn’t mean Simmons isn’t highly tradeable.

He's not a highly coveted player that's the point. Highly tradeable asset was the wrong term. If he was super highly coveted across the league, someone would have paid the cost, even with the shortage of picks in the league.

Let's put it this way I and probably most of the posters who are against trading for Simmons wouldn't be against trading for him if the target was a young KD.

You win he’s not young KD lol. What a silly statement. No team is going to trade a young KD unless forced to and in that scenario the young KD isn’t forcing his way to MN. [/b]

Let's put it this way, if we were talking about trading for Giannis, I would throw most everything sans KAT to get Giannis.

You win Simmons isn’t Giannis lol. Another silly statement. Please explain why a team would trade a player like Giannis to MN? It’s not a realistic scenario so why compare Simmons to something that would never in 100 years ever happen?

[/b]

Simmons isn't a face of the franchise player, but he's definitely being paid as one. I feel like a lot of posters don't grasp that.

A lot of max players aren’t the face of the franchise and on max deals. How much did Milwaukee pay Jrue? Cleveland pay Love? GSW pay Draymond and Klay?

Yet Simmons is #14 in total winshares the last 4 year, which suggests he’s more than worthy of his salary.

He's not an upper tier franchise cornerstone player. He's just a disgruntled star who has a lot going against him.

That’s just your opinion and a poorly supported one at that.

You literally contradict yourself right here. If you believe he's an upper-tier franchise cornerstone player then why is nobody shelling out 4 picks. Either he delivers the value of being an upper-tier franchise cornerstone like Giannis or KD or he doesn't.

If Ben Simmons is so good, why did the star player and coach throw him under the bus?

Also your stat for WS seemed off so checked BBALL reference, he has #39 in win shares this season in the NBA. Don't know how you calculated it for the last 4 years.

Also as far as non-max players being on max deals. Literally every example you quoted there made sense, those were all in the hopes of adding a wheel to compliment the main stars. I'm saying he's not worth a max deal to this team. To PHI sure, but not to us, we won't rely on him to be our face of the franchise, PHI will in a secondary capacity. Edwards and KAT are the main players on this team, everyone else comes second. He could be worth a max deal to some other team to, one that needs a third wheel in order to get a chip.

Simmons is not the piece that wins this team a championship and for that fact most teams.

It’s pretty hard if not impossible to go from 23 to 1st overnight. I don’t think anyone expect Simmons to be a miracle worker. There isnt a scenario where this team can make a trade that turns us into a title team. But it’s a good first start. After that it still might take 7-8 moves and two seasons to get there, and right now we can’t even plot those hypothetical scenarios. But we can move one step in the right direction toward making us a competitive playoff team.

So if Simmons isn't going to be a miracle worker why the $35 million? If I literally can't get around this point, we already have spent 2 max deals and aren't a playoff team, why add a third one that also won't make us marginally better than a "will they or won't they" make the playoffs?

Because once you have a Giannis/Luka/Curry/Durant type player you just need to fill in the blanks. You don't have to worry about whether or not he has teammates that score more than them.

Giannis only needed injured AD, injured Kawhi, and injured Harden/Kyrie.

Luke is no closer to a title than Simmons.

Steph needed 3-4 other hall of farmers on his team and an ownership willing to go way over the lux.

Durant had to go join Steph. How many titles did okc get?

Chips are chips, you wouldn't be saying that if Minny won.

Luka on PHI would make them a Finals contender no question, if you doubt that, then no point in us talking.

Its not Stephs fault he got Draymond and Klay who he won a chip with, and then added Durant to win two more.

KD did make it to the finals and WCF a few times.

Are you seriously insinuating that to have a cornerstone franchise player isn't a major requirement?

Every championship team ever has had a superstar player who carried them. We all know their names.

Literally every single one.

Yes you need a good supporting cast, but without the main player its all not feasible. You literally just cited, an injured AD, Kawhi, Harden/Kyrie. Those are all cornerstones.

WE DON'T HAVE ONE. Yet we're trading for someone who also isn't one, so we have 3 players individually who aren't good enough to carry the team. I don't understand you.[/quote]
Simmons is highly coveted. He's just not coveted to the extreme that Morey is trying to get.

[Baseline81]

Jon Krawczynski on Bumper to Bumper (Dan Barreiro):

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/139-the-dan-barreiro-show-26981004/

- Anticipated the Simmons news today but did not know it would come this early
- Teams have been waiting for this to happen due to Morey's asking price
- When asked what his thoughts are on what the team might be willing to give up, starts by saying Towns and Edwards are off limit. Thinks the Wolves would prefer to keep Russell, but not a must. If it got to a point where the deal had to include Russell, he could see such a scenario happening. Otherwise, Beasley, McDaniels, Beverley and a bunch of picks.
- According to him and Shams Charania, not many teams at the table for Simmons right now
- Golden State not at the table as the Warriors like who they have in Kuminga and Wiseman
- Wolves see Simmons as Draymond Green, not as a PG
- Are the three max guys good enough to vault the team into contention (Simmons' attitude, Russell's ceiling, Towns' leadership). It's not a slam dunk, give up the farm type of scenario. But if you can back Morey into a corner the way the 76ers did the Wolves with Butler, you do that sort of package.
- Reason for wanting to keep Russell is because his shooting/scoring along with Towns and Edwards would allow Simmons to just play.
- His sources tell him Simmons is open to a Wolves move. But has yet to find out if he'd be willing to accept the role of PF.

[SO_MONEY]

As far as Simmons to the Kings, they leaked that Fox is off the table. I would expect Halliburton might be as well. Simmons people said today he wants

https://www.knbr.com/2021/08/31/ben-simmons-refuses-to-play-for-sixers-wants-to-go-to-three-california-teams-report/

Poor SAC is Team 4. Also, MIN fans may gasp at this line, from the SF based radio station:

Also is Simmons that much better than Wiggins? They are pretty close from a defensive standpoint, which is Simmons’ most valuable skill, and Wiggins was highly efficient as a scorer and shooter for the Warriors last season, something Simmons is certainly not.

You really have to wonder at this point how many teams even want Simmons let alone give up anything for him. I don't think it is a long list.

If the local media is basically building up Wiggins to justify why they might not move him, and is pushing Green, Wiseman, ouch. Neither option is appealing.

SAC is pushing Hield, maybe Barnes or Bagley?

Clippers have nothing.

Lakers have THT, but nothing to really match salary with.

Not a California team, but SA has some stuff and salary matching capabilities. Murray, Young, Walker IV, Johnson, Vassel ect... As things stand I think SA can put the best package together, but for all I know they are only willing to offer Poeltl, Young, Walker IV and a 1st.

[jpatrick]

Jon Krawczynski on Bumper to Bumper (Dan Barreiro):

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/139-the-dan-barreiro-show-26981004/

- Anticipated the Simmons news today but did not know it would come this early
- Teams have been waiting for this to happen due to Morey's asking price
- When asked what his thoughts are on what the team might be willing to give up, starts by saying Towns and Edwards are off limit. Thinks the Wolves would prefer to keep Russell, but not a must. If it got to a point where the deal had to include Russell, he could see such a scenario happening. Otherwise, Beasley, McDaniels, Beverley and a bunch of picks.
- According to him and Shams Charania, not many teams at the table for Simmons right now
- Golden State not at the table as the Warriors like who they have in Kuminga and Wiseman
- Wolves see Simmons as Draymond Green, not as a PG
- Are the three max guys good enough to vault the team into contention (Simmons' attitude, Russell's ceiling, Towns' leadership). It's not a slam dunk, give up the farm type of scenario. But if you can back Morey into a corner the way the 76ers did the Wolves with Butler, you do that sort of package.
- Reason for wanting to keep Russell is because his shooting/scoring along with Towns and Edwards would allow Simmons to just play.
- His sources tell him Simmons is open to a Wolves move. But has yet to find out if he'd be willing to accept the role of PF.

All this makes a lot of sense. Also sounds like McDaniels won’t be a holdup. They way they were puffing him up during summer league sounded a lot like guys trying to increase his value.

I hope we find a way to keep him. I prefer keeping him over DLo.

[Domejandro]

You might as well pencil in Jaden McDaniels as gone, if a Simmons trade happens.

Regardless, I agree that Minnesota and San Antonio are the two primary teams. I feel that Simmons will end up in Minnesota, in all honesty.

[shrink]

If Klutch wants Maxey out of PHI too, does this mean they wouldn’t want a Klutch client sent in?

Malik Beasley (EDIT: and Ant) are Klutch clients.

[Domejandro]

If Klutch wants Maxey out of PHI too, does this mean they wouldn’t want a Klutch client sent in?

MIN has one. Malik Beasley.

For what it is worth, the guy who said that is apparently the guy who locked in a Golden State/Simmons Draft day trade, but that aside, I really get the vibe that D’Angelo Russell may be a major piece going out. Zero reason for c that, just what I’m feeling.

[Wolf_Cry]

I don't mind throwing FRP's for Simmons, but if they're unprotected then I'm done with this team. That is about as stupid as when Billy King mortgaged the Nets future. Might be even more dumb since the double draft is coming up soon.

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

If you keep Ant-DLo and KAT + Beverly…then I’m open.

Other then that..$40M for a guy who’s a liability in the 4th? Uhhhh

Philly laughs at the scraps we offer. But then again… we traded them butler for a couple of scraps ourselves.

I sure didn't consider Covington and Saric to be scraps. Covington was ALL NBA Defense first team and Saric looked very promising. I thought is was good compensation. Of course Saric goes downhill after we get him. RoCo was traded for multiple FRPs.

RoCo should never be the centerpiece for return haul when youre trading a Jimmy Butler. Unfortunately when your hands are tied-Hes the best return player when Butler forced his way out. Similar situation here. Plus the way he was utilized in Minnesota was a disaster. He’s not a second scoring option and that 1-20 game he had sticks out like a sore thumb. Rocos solid. But 4 teams in 4 years seems pretty dispensable to me- hence the term scraps

What I’m saying is stick to our guns. Giving up any of our big 3 would be catastrophic, specially Ant but that ain’t happening.

[KGdaBom]

If you keep Ant-DLo and KAT + Beverly…then I’m open.

Other then that..$40M for a guy who’s a liability in the 4th? Uhhhh

Philly laughs at the scraps we offer. But then again… we traded them butler for a couple of scraps ourselves.

I sure didn't consider Covington and Saric to be scraps. Covington was ALL NBA Defense first team and Saric looked very promising. I thought is was good compensation. Of course Saric goes downhill after we get him. RoCo was traded for multiple FRPs.

RoCo should never be the centerpiece for return haul when youre trading a Jimmy Butler. Unfortunately when your hands are tied-Hes the best return player when Butler forced his way out. Similar situation here. Plus the way he was utilized in Minnesota was a disaster. He’s not a second scoring option and that 1-20 game he had sticks out like a sore thumb. Rocos solid. But 4 teams in 4 years seems pretty dispensable to me- hence the term scraps

What I’m saying is stick to our guns. Giving up any of our big 3 would be catastrophic, specially Ant but that ain’t happening.

RoCo was traded by us for multiple FRPs. Not scraps.

[moonpie]

If Klutch wants Maxey out of PHI too, does this mean they wouldn’t want a Klutch client sent in?

MIN has one. Malik Beasley.

For what it is worth, the guy who said that is apparently the guy who locked in a Golden State/Simmons Draft day trade, but that aside, I really get the vibe that D’Angelo Russell may be a major piece going out. Zero reason for c that, just what I’m feeling.

Opposite feeling for me - I think the goal all along has been to bring together a Big 4 of DLO, Ant, Ben, and KAT. In addition, I think that Jaden is the perfect 5th piece to complement those 4 and feel that Rosas would chuck another 1st rounder at Morey instead of trading him away if it came to that.

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

I sure didn't consider Covington and Saric to be scraps. Covington was ALL NBA Defense first team and Saric looked very promising. I thought is was good compensation. Of course Saric goes downhill after we get him. RoCo was traded for multiple FRPs.

RoCo should never be the centerpiece for return haul when youre trading a Jimmy Butler. Unfortunately when your hands are tied-Hes the best return player when Butler forced his way out. Similar situation here. Plus the way he was utilized in Minnesota was a disaster. He’s not a second scoring option and that 1-20 game he had sticks out like a sore thumb. Rocos solid. But 4 teams in 4 years seems pretty dispensable to me- hence the term scraps

What I’m saying is stick to our guns. Giving up any of our big 3 would be catastrophic, specially Ant but that ain’t happening.

RoCo was traded by us for multiple FRPs. Not scraps.

Read on Twitter

?s=21

We got one. Beas is the only player on the active roster from that trade (just 18 months ago )and he’s obviously on the way out if we get Simmons.

I said he’s solid.

[Klomp]

If Klutch wants Maxey out of PHI too, does this mean they wouldn’t want a Klutch client sent in?

Malik Beasley (EDIT: and Ant) are Klutch clients.

Just a thought, but what if Sacramento was the third team in a deal, with them essentially swapping Hield for Beasley? (other parts needed)

Was just thinking about them in comparison with each other in terms of attractiveness to PHI. I think they're similar players. Personally, I would take Beasley. I think they're similar players. Hield has better rep but Beasley is 4 years younger and a lot cheaper. But the Klutch comments plus age may actually make PHI want to do that.